Updated: The Nikon D5 has Leaked

[Tugela]

Re: The Nikon D5 has Leaked

So maybe they will cripple the 5D4 or 1DX2 by not including clog but then again all the cheap competitors do...
Interesting to see Canon's next move - after all they haven't innovated anything in quite awhile

Personally I would very much hope that Canon not clog up their new models with unnecessary or ineffective features.

I don't understand why people would use a DSLR for video. They're well set up for stills photography but ergonomically difficult to use for sophisticated video recording,

With respect to your last point, it seems odd that you've said that given Canon's historic cycle of innovation we're in the latter part of a steady, ongoing development cycle. What we're seeing is normal for this stage in the cycle.

The reason is that it allows people to use one camera and shift from one mode of shooting to the other with the press of a button.

Shooting video with a DSLR/MILC isn't that different from using a dedicated video camera btw, provided that the camera has video tools built into the firmware (which isn't the case with most prosumer models - they only have nominal video functions).

 

[3kramd5]

Re: The Nikon D5 has Leaked

I want the best stills camera Canon is capable of making.

So when does your 5DSR arrive?

A couple of days after I have personally played with 1DX MkII RAW files if they are not what I need.

So far I see no reason to go to the 5DSR from my 1DS MkIII's for my personal uses, I truthfully don't need the MP but the post 2012 RT flash functionality would be nice as would the higher iso capabilities better rear screen and a few other bits and pieces. However, I have been a 1 series user for the longest time, things like faster sync speed, AF point linked spot metering, battery life etc are difficult to give up if you are used to them and if the 1DX MkII has 24ish MP then it would suit me and my shooting better than a 5DSR.

As an aside, for low iso shooting the 1DS MkIII was years ahead of its time, secondhand they are the digital camera bargain of the day.

My expectation is that the 1Dx successor will be better in weather, have better AF and tracking, have better metering, probably have better video, etc., but that the 5DSR will produce better stills (even if it's harder to get them right in certain scenarios).

We shall see!

 

[Viggo]

So they still have only one button where the AF-ON is... One of my most used features with the 1dx is the reassigned exposure lock button to bring out a completely different AF setup by moving my thumb half a centimeter. Why would they just leave that space for nothing on model after model?

And the two joystick, one which is impossible to use with gloves I will never get. Other than that they finally moved the iso-button.

 

[Tugela]

Re: The Nikon D5 has Leaked

Please, CFast cards.

Why? That is so arbitrary.

I don't want one single video enhancing feature that costs a singe cent. I don't want a heaphone socket, I don't want CFast, I don't want 4K heat sinks.

Lets see.

1DX raw file is 23MB in size at ISO 100.
(http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-1D-X-Digital-SLR-Camera-Review.aspx)

The maximum speed for CF cards is 167MB/s (theoretical.)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/buying-guide/fastest-memory-cards-money-can-buy

That's less than 8fps for raw files.

Transcend's CFast 2.0 cards have a maximum write speed of 370MB/sec.
http://www.transcend-info.com/Products/No-672

That's fast enough to capture 12fps on the 1DX when shooting raw without having to slow down.

And that's just for the 1DX. The 1DX2 files will be bigger.

Now tell me again why you want to keep using CF cards that cap the speed of writing images and will limit how long you can run at full fps shooting speed for. Or maybe you're just happy to shoot in JPEG instead of raw when shooting at full speed, continuously?

Continuous burst shooting is not directly related to card write speed. The bottleneck is the processor's ability to process the data coming off the sensor. The number and duration of the burst will be dictated by the camera's buffer size. Once the buffer is full, the burst rate will choke back to the processing speed., whatever that happens to be for a particular system.

 

[sanj]

Re: The Nikon D5 has Leaked

I want the best stills camera Canon is capable of making.

So when does your 5DSR arrive?

A couple of days after I have personally played with 1DX MkII RAW files if they are not what I need.

So far I see no reason to go to the 5DSR from my 1DS MkIII's for my personal uses, I truthfully don't need the MP but the post 2012 RT flash functionality would be nice as would the higher iso capabilities better rear screen and a few other bits and pieces. However, I have been a 1 series user for the longest time, things like faster sync speed, AF point linked spot metering, battery life etc are difficult to give up if you are used to them and if the 1DX MkII has 24ish MP then it would suit me and my shooting better than a 5DSR.

As an aside, for low iso shooting the 1DS MkIII was years ahead of its time, secondhand they are the digital camera bargain of the day.

My expectation is that the 1Dx successor will be better in weather, have better AF and tracking, have better metering, probably have better video, etc., but that the 5DSR will produce better stills (even if it's harder to get them right in certain scenarios).

We shall see!

Likely. At least at ISO 100.

 

[privatebydesign]

Re: The Nikon D5 has Leaked

Please, CFast cards.

Why? That is so arbitrary.

I don't want one single video enhancing feature that costs a singe cent. I don't want a heaphone socket, I don't want CFast, I don't want 4K heat sinks.

Lets see.

1DX raw file is 23MB in size at ISO 100.
(http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-1D-X-Digital-SLR-Camera-Review.aspx)

The maximum speed for CF cards is 167MB/s (theoretical.)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/buying-guide/fastest-memory-cards-money-can-buy

That's less than 8fps for raw files.

Transcend's CFast 2.0 cards have a maximum write speed of 370MB/sec.
http://www.transcend-info.com/Products/No-672

That's fast enough to capture 12fps on the 1DX when shooting raw without having to slow down.

And that's just for the 1DX. The 1DX2 files will be bigger.

Now tell me again why you want to keep using CF cards that cap the speed of writing images and will limit how long you can run at full fps shooting speed for. Or maybe you're just happy to shoot in JPEG instead of raw when shooting at full speed, continuously?

Oh Dilbert!

Camera manufacturers put things called buffers inside, this is like a holding pen for information on its way to the cards. Good cameras have good buffers, cheaper cameras have smaller buffers.

If your point had any validity to it can you explain how the 1DX achieves 12 fps if the card write speed limits it to only 8fps? Or how about the fact that the actual RAW limit before slowdown (filling the buffer) is over 30?

If you are so badly mistiming your shot that you are constantly shooting 31 shot bursts in RAW you need a new job.

 

[Viper28]

Re: The Nikon D5 has Leaked

Please, CFast cards.

Why? That is so arbitrary.

I don't want one single video enhancing feature that costs a singe cent. I don't want a heaphone socket, I don't want CFast, I don't want 4K heat sinks.

I want the best stills camera Canon is capable of making.

+1, zero interest in video features especially in this segment

 

[romanr74]

Re: The Nikon D5 has Leaked

It is really funny reading the excuses people make up for Canon not to use the latest technology available. It is almost like people are using tools in one of the fastest changing industries but are afraid of more change.

...
Camera manufacturers put things called buffers inside, this is like a holding pen for information on its way to the cards. Good cameras have good buffers, cheaper cameras have smaller buffers.

If your point had any validity to it can you explain how the 1DX achieves 12 fps if the card write speed limits it to only 8fps? Or how about the fact that the actual RAW limit before slowdown (filling the buffer) is over 30?

The buffer is exactly the point - it is present because the CF card is slow to write to.

If the card is fast enough to write to then there is no need for a buffer - or at least a much smaller buffer. Space saved on reducing the buffer could be used for something else inside the DIGIC package - or just make the DIGIC package smaller.

If you are so badly mistiming your shot that you are constantly shooting 31 shot bursts in RAW you need a new job.

What about the 30 shot buffer in the 1DIII - was that too many too or too few?

And if filling a 31 frame buffer means that you need a new job does that mean anyone that fills their 38 frame buffer on the 1DX should also find a new job? What about if you shoot JPEG and fill that 180 frame buffer?

Lord knows what you most think of the guy that spent 720,000 frames trying to get the perfect shot of a bird entering water.

i don't want my camera to be designed based on such requirements. other than the timing i don't think that bird shot is very impressive...

 

[danski0224]

Four pages, and still no clarification about what is leaking from the D5....

 

[clicstudio]

Great. Still looks hideous as most Nikon equipment.
I know u don't "see" the look of a camera on photos but still, Canon cameras are smooth, shiny, rounded, ergonomically right and with readable fonts on the screen...

 

[MrToes]

Four pages, and still no clarification about what is leaking from the D5....

LOL! Good Point!

 

[Tugela]

Re: The Nikon D5 has Leaked

...
Continuous burst shooting is not directly related to card write speed. The bottleneck is the processor's ability to process the data coming off the sensor. The number and duration of the burst will be dictated by the camera's buffer size. Once the buffer is full, the burst rate will choke back to the processing speed., whatever that happens to be for a particular system.

I think you'll find that it is not CPU processing that is the problem.

Look in the table from TDP and you'll see some huge counts for JPEGs being written out and rather small raw file counts so clearly there is no problem on the side of data coming from the sensor and going into the CPU.

Um, no. The role of the buffer primarily is to store the serial data stream coming off of the sensor prior to processing into the actual files, which generally happens way faster than any processor can handle. The processor reads the data out of the buffer, but once the buffer is full the frame rate will drop to whatever the processor can handle because there is no space to put any more data.

Buffers can be placed before or after processing, but in modern cameras the buffer is used for both. Since the incoming data stream vastly exceeds the processing speed, ultimately it will be the buffer size and how that relates to the data rate of the sensor read that determines things like frame rates and burst duration. This is why your camera will often continue to process data long after you have actually taken your shots (a long exposure for example, where data is collected over a period of time and then summed).

Once you reach a certain value, using faster cards results in minimal increases in frame rates for this reason.

 

[Loswr]

Re: The Nikon D5 has Leaked

This is why your camera will often continue to process data long after you have actually taken your shots (a long exposure for example, where data is collected over a period of time and then summed).

You're not helping your case with silly statements like that. In a long exposure, the data are collected ('data' are plural, nor singular) over a long period of time and summed by the sensor, while the shutter is open – once the shutter closes, there's no difference between a long and short exposure in terms of processing. If your camera continues 'processing' you are confusing that with long exposure NR, where a dark frame of the same exposure duration is taken and subtracted (which removes hot pixels, but actually adds random noise) – that extra time is the second exposure, not 'processing'.

The system can only go as fast as the slowest component and right now the slowest component is the CF card.

In practice, the mirror is the limiting factor that determines fps. The buffer size then limits the number of shots that can be taken at that frame rate. Only after the buffer is full do other factors come into play.