Using the 5DSR for wildlife, a field review

[Larsskv]

I'm with Eldar on this one. I own the 7DII and the 5Ds, and I'm more satisfied with the 5Ds AF tracking. The 7DII is more noticeably more responsive, in regards to both shorter viewfinder blackout time and shutterlag, but the AF has more misses than the 5Ds.

Further, you need to back up that lack of weather sealing claim. Have you had any issues with it?

 

[stochasticmotions]

Thanks for doing this review, I have been looking at the 5DS for a while now. You have covered many of the types of shooting and shooting conditions that I encounter regularly. I have been looking for that extra cropping capability (and the extra detail when I can get close enough) with the more consistent AF than the options I have now. Hard to beat the Sony A7RII for the detail but the lack of native long lenses (that will likely not be solved sufficiently for another year or two) means that I still rely on the canon for anything that moves too much in which I need longer than 300mm.

I think I have decided on my birthday present since I still haven't found a good used 500 f4 to play with.

 

[Rob Wiebe]

Excellent review, and although I haven't been out shooting wildlife with mine, I did shoot a Powwow two weeks ago and was very happy with the results. Your assessment mirrors mine but with much better content and detail than I might be able to compose!

 

[AdamBotond]

Grant, first of all, thanks for the much detailed review. Having only a single rig, I was wondering though how often you find yourself in a low light situation, when you are forced to use a better low light performer rig instead of 5DS(r) ? As most of my wildlife photography takes place in the dusk/dawn, I feel I should rather stick with a lower MP body, which has better high iso quality than vice versa. I do believe one can get wonderful results with the 5Ds as long as there is enough light, though.
Inputs of any 5Ds(r) users would be appreciated.

 

[Mikehit]

I spend a lot of time shooting outdoors and i was constantly worried about that.

Why were you worried about it? What experience made you have concerns about the degree of weather sealing?
Or is it that your preconceptions about it being a 'studio camera' led to those concerns?

 

[East Wind Photography]

I spend a lot of time shooting outdoors and i was constantly worried about that.

Why were you worried about it? What experience made you have concerns about the degree of weather sealing?
Or is it that your preconceptions about it being a 'studio camera' led to those concerns?

Oh yes. Had the main board replaced under carepak just before selling it. Used it during an event with light rain and a rain sleeve. My 7d2 has been exposed to torrential downpours without a sleeve and keeps on working. Canon told me that it was water corrosion damage and they were replacing the main board. To me the amount of rain it was exposed to was nothing. Tells me that the weather sealing is not that great.

REALLY glad canon started offering the carepak coverage. That was a 500.00 repair with the CPS discount. Ended up costing me nothing other than the shipping back to canon.

A lot of factors went into me letting it go and that was one of them.

Could have been a fluke or an assembly line error but water corrosion meant it had a straight shot to the guts...not like button malfunctions that many experience. Anyway don't expose the 5ds series cameras to much rain or keep your carepak coverage active.

 

[East Wind Photography]

Other than that I was abysmally disappointed. It was too slow in every respect, including AF. I often found that it had a tough time keeping up with subjects moving toward and away from the camera. The 7d2 has a much faster AF system but is overshadowed by the amazing 1dx2.

What do you mean by 'slow'? There are two aspects IME that are rarely distinguished:

• response time to capture the moment
  speed for tracking focus
• 
  

As an example, one of my obsessions at the moment is the local kingfisher and I realised that I am less interested in capturing it in flight and more interested in capturing the dive and it hitting the water.
The latter needs quick reactions by me (and the camera) when I see it diving and about to hit the water, the former relies on tracking which is a different skill.

Also I can imagine that if you are into animal behaviour pretty much the same thing applies to catch an interesting moment.

Having used 7D, 7DII 5D, 5DII, 5DIII, 1DsIII, 1DIV, 1DX, 1DXII and 5DSR extensively, I find it difficult to comprehend your "abysmally disappointed". As many have pointed out, including Grant in his review, you have to pay attention to your technique, to really benefit from the high resolution and there is an ISO limit. In general I lose one stop, due to a faster shutter speed and yes, the 1DX and especially the 1DX-II has a better AF system and a much higher fps. But compared to the other cameras listed above, the 5DSR equals or beat them (except for 1DIV and 7DII with regards to fps).

So if your problems were for real, they must have been caused by one of two; Either finger trouble on your end or a faulty camera. My 7DII works well and I am happy with the AF system, but the 5DSR is better. The 5DSR is also better than the 5DIII. Besides Grants excellent review, you can also check out Art Morris. I believe their images of both wildlife and birds (also in flight) are proof good enough.

Mikehit; For your Kingfisher dives, I would rather recommend a 7DII (or preferably a 1DX or 1DXII), due to the fps performance.

In slow i refer to just about everything from shutter lag to post processing. In particular i thought this might be a good camera catching eagles in flight. Its fine as long as they are flying across the field but in a slow sequence of shots when they are flying toward you, maybe one or two are in focus with clear sense the focus shifted behind the target. The AF cannot keep up. This has nothing to do with technique. Ive been doing this for 30 years. The camera was really not designed for this kind of action. It was designed with studio use in mind. The processor has quite a bit more to do on this model and i think thats more of a design issue than a fault of the camera.

Most of grants shots are of static subjects and birds crossing the field. The only one in the sequence that comes close to what i am talking about is the antelope running toward the camera. I wonder how many in the sequence were rejected? Probobly only got 5 or so off before it was over.

The other thing is i think this camera has the worst weather sealing in its class. I spend a lot of time shooting outdoors and i was constantly worried about that. I used sleeves and other means to protect it from rain but even so the body does tend to get wet just from needing access to it. Its an indoor or fair weather camera and one needs to be aware of that when you are out for extended periods of time.

so im not bashing the camera or the review. I think both are exceptional. Im only saying that pushing this camera beyond its design limits is a limitation and for someone that shoots wildlife and sports, this camera got less and less use because of that.

I see what you write, but I still don´t understand your conclusions.

A lot of bird and wildlife photographers are shooting with a 5DIII and this camera receives a lot of positive reviews for the AF systems performance. I was one that was/is very happy with it. The AF system in the 5DS/DSR is an improved version of the 5DIII and my personal experience is that it really is. That´s why I find your issues with the camera strange.

As for weather sealing, I have had no issues with it (I live in Norway, not exactly the most hospitable climate you´ll find), so how you end up concluding "this camera has the worst weather sealing in its class" is beyond me. Here is what Bryan at The-digital-pictures says in his review:
"Weather sealing is part of this camera's package and the level of sealing is the same as the 5D III. The level of weather sealing incorporated into the 5D Mark III was referred to as superior to the 5D II, lesser to the 1D X and equivalent to the EOS 1N film SLR. "The weather protection provided by this design is high enough to endure exposure to rain of up to 10mm of rain per hour for a duration of up to approximately three minutes" according to CPN."

Actually the 5diii had better af performance. I let that one go for the 5dsr and sorely missed the higher iso capability. Had I still had the 5diii I probably would have let that go for the 1dxii.

Glad you are happy with the 5dsr. It didn't suit my needs or expectations after 5 months of use.

 

[Eldar]

I spend a lot of time shooting outdoors and i was constantly worried about that.

Why were you worried about it? What experience made you have concerns about the degree of weather sealing?
Or is it that your preconceptions about it being a 'studio camera' led to those concerns?

Oh yes. Had the main board replaced under carepak just before selling it. Used it during an event with light rain and a rain sleeve. My 7d2 has been exposed to torrential downpours without a sleeve and keeps on working. Canon told me that it was water corrosion damage and they were replacing the main board. To me the amount of rain it was exposed to was nothing. Tells me that the weather sealing is not that great.

REALLY glad canon started offering the carepak coverage. That was a 500.00 repair with the CPS discount. Ended up costing me nothing other than the shipping back to canon.

A lot of factors went into me letting it go and that was one of them.

Could have been a fluke or an assembly line error but water corrosion meant it had a straight shot to the guts...not like button malfunctions that many experience. Anyway don't expose the 5ds series cameras to much rain or keep your carepak coverage active.

So we're back to my initial assessment. Either finger trouble on your end, or a faulty camera. I carry my gear in all kinds of weather and I have never had an issue with a 5D body, including the 5DSR.

 

[East Wind Photography]

I spend a lot of time shooting outdoors and i was constantly worried about that.

Why were you worried about it? What experience made you have concerns about the degree of weather sealing?
Or is it that your preconceptions about it being a 'studio camera' led to those concerns?

Oh yes. Had the main board replaced under carepak just before selling it. Used it during an event with light rain and a rain sleeve. My 7d2 has been exposed to torrential downpours without a sleeve and keeps on working. Canon told me that it was water corrosion damage and they were replacing the main board. To me the amount of rain it was exposed to was nothing. Tells me that the weather sealing is not that great.

REALLY glad canon started offering the carepak coverage. That was a 500.00 repair with the CPS discount. Ended up costing me nothing other than the shipping back to canon.

A lot of factors went into me letting it go and that was one of them.

Could have been a fluke or an assembly line error but water corrosion meant it had a straight shot to the guts...not like button malfunctions that many experience. Anyway don't expose the 5ds series cameras to much rain or keep your carepak coverage active.

So we're back to my initial assessment. Either finger trouble on your end, or a faulty camera. I carry my gear in all kinds of weather and I have never had an issue with a 5D body, including the 5DSR.

Elder don't presume you are an expert in my experience. If you read the message I sold it right after it was repaired. It seems you are more interested in being argumentative than constructive. My experience other than the water failure was less than enthusiastic.

On the other side, since acquiring the 1dx2 I can say it is flawless in just about every way. A complete opposite experience than what I had for 5 months with the 5dsr.

 

[Grant Atkinson]

Thanks for doing this review, I have been looking at the 5DS for a while now. You have covered many of the types of shooting and shooting conditions that I encounter regularly. I have been looking for that extra cropping capability (and the extra detail when I can get close enough) with the more consistent AF than the options I have now. Hard to beat the Sony A7RII for the detail but the lack of native long lenses (that will likely not be solved sufficiently for another year or two) means that I still rely on the canon for anything that moves too much in which I need longer than 300mm.

I think I have decided on my birthday present since I still haven't found a good used 500 f4 to play with.

Thanks for the feedback Stochastic Motions!
Cheers
Grant

 

[Grant Atkinson]

Excellent review, and although I haven't been out shooting wildlife with mine, I did shoot a Powwow two weeks ago and was very happy with the results. Your assessment mirrors mine but with much better content and detail than I might be able to compose!

Thanks for that Rob Wiebe!
Cheers
Grant

 

[Grant Atkinson]

Grant, first of all, thanks for the much detailed review. Having only a single rig, I was wondering though how often you find yourself in a low light situation, when you are forced to use a better low light performer rig instead of 5DS(r) ? As most of my wildlife photography takes place in the dusk/dawn, I feel I should rather stick with a lower MP body, which has better high iso quality than vice versa. I do believe one can get wonderful results with the 5Ds as long as there is enough light, though.
Inputs of any 5Ds(r) users would be appreciated.

Hi Adam
I think there are a couple ways to look at it. If you dont mind the extra time that is consumed when processing to downscale 5DSR images, then it has low light performance very much on par with the 5DMark 3. With the added bonus of enjoying its resolution advantage fully when the light is better. On the other hand, if pixel level image quality is important to you, then it is probably better to use camera with less res and bigger pixels, for lots and lots of low light work. I do think the 5DSR is quite capable in low light, but for me, becomes less capable if you start increasing the subject motion in low light.
I am very lucky in that I have a 1DX and a 5D Mark 3 to pair with the 5DSR, so that makes it easy.
Hope that helps
Cheers
Grant

 

[Deleted member 7828]

Thanks for sharing this review, very insightful. Especially considering that hovering in the back of my mind is the possibility of picking up one for animal shooting...after being underwhelmed by the 7D2 in IQ and the lack of AF consistency, the 5D3 (when enough pixels can be placed on the subject in question) is far superior in IQ.

That said, it would be nice to have just a bit more reach than 400mm on FF/300mm on crop. It's tempting to think of using the 5DSR to make up the reach deficit while keeping the FF IQ, but the lack of good high ISO ability (as in the experience of the 7D2) is a drawback/disincentive. Otherwise, I look for ways to get to ~600mm on the 5D3, whether it's picking up a super-tele (like the 400 DO) and putting an extender on it or waiting for this rumored 200-600...

 

[AlanF]

Ok, the 5DS R is not good enough for you. But, it is now the mainstay of Art Morris, the doyen of bird photography, often paired with the 100-400 II, and used with glee by many of us. If it is not good enough for you, then spend a fortune on a 1DX and 400 DO II, but you might not do any better than Art, Grant and the rest of us and you will miss opportunities waiting for them.

 

[Eldar]

Elder don't presume you are an expert in my experience. If you read the message I sold it right after it was repaired. It seems you are more interested in being argumentative than constructive. My experience other than the water failure was less than enthusiastic.

On the other side, since acquiring the 1dx2 I can say it is flawless in just about every way. A complete opposite experience than what I had for 5 months with the 5dsr.

I am not an expert on your experiences and I never will be. I have no interest in being argumentative either. But I find your conclusions, based on your subjective experiences with one copy, a bit too bombastic and contradictory to some rather simple objective facts. I also find them contradictory to the subjective experiences expressed by lots of qualified reviewers and users. And they are certainly contradictory to my own experiences.

Objectively, the weather sealing of the 5DSR is equal to that of the 5DIII. This weather sealing is rather good and it has been tested, verified and praised by loads of photographers and reviewers. I don´t doubt that yours leaked, but I believe you had a bad copy.

Objectively, the AF system of the 5DIII is very good. It has been tested, verified and praised by loads of photographers and reviewers. The 5DRS has the same system, with some improvements. I know you know what they are, because you stated them in one of your post after you got the camera back in October last year. (I remember that, because I was surprised you bought the camera, given your very negative attitude towards it after it was released). Since you apparently had issues with the AF system, I believe it relates to your copy, unless it was finger trouble, since all these other qualified reviewers and photographers conclude that it is very good and an improvement over the 5DIII.

As a sidenote I can add that I had my 5DSR in with CPS, because the AF system appeared to be a bit inconsistent. They adjusted a minor internal offset, apparently a mechanical adjustment and it has performed flawlessly ever since.

I lot of people read these posts during their to-buy-or-not-to-buy processes. And they rely on experiences posted by other users. You seem to be an experienced photographer and people will take a note of what you say. So, again, I am not trying to be argumentative, I just find your generalised conclusions, that AF performance is poor and weather sealing is crap, a bit too bombastic, I believe they are wrong and I believe they represent poor advice to those who wonder if this is the camera to buy.

I am glad you enjoy the 1DXII. So do I. It is a perfect combo with my 5DSR.

I know this will not convince you, but this gull was flying full speed straight at me. It is a heavy crop and the area the AF system has available to lock on to is very small and the contrast in the scene is rather flat.

 

[arthurbikemad]

Love reading your stuff! Great review.

 

[AlanF]

Eldar, your 100-400mm II is from the same batch as mine, 2700005560 vs 2700005036, according to exif data. On the 5DS R, I prefer using it without the 1.4xTC. If I want longer reach I now use a Sigma 150-600mm C, my copy of which is as good at 600mm as my 300mm f/2.8 II + 2xTC III. The level of detail can be phenomenal. Here is a chaffinch on my feeder, at 500mm, hand-held at 1/200s.

 

[Deleted member 7828]

Ok, the 5DS R is not good enough for you. But, it is now the mainstay of Art Morris, the doyen of bird photography, often paired with the 100-400 II, and used with glee by many of us. If it is not good enough for you, then spend a fortune on a 1DX and 400 DO II, but you might not do any better than Art, Grant and the rest of us and you will miss opportunities waiting for them.

It's not a question of whether it's "good enough" - people are getting results with it - but just trying to work out my options. What yields more detail, specifically at higher ISO - 600mm on 5D3 or 400 on 5DSR cropped? The review touched on this slightly, but I'd be curious in a situation that you have a high-res sensor at a wider focal length vs. a lower-res sensor at a longer length so the image is framed identically, is there a difference quality-wise? Particularly since they are both FF sensors.

 

[AlanF]

Ok, the 5DS R is not good enough for you. But, it is now the mainstay of Art Morris, the doyen of bird photography, often paired with the 100-400 II, and used with glee by many of us. If it is not good enough for you, then spend a fortune on a 1DX and 400 DO II, but you might not do any better than Art, Grant and the rest of us and you will miss opportunities waiting for them.

It's not a question of whether it's "good enough" - people are getting results with it - but just trying to work out my options. What yields more detail, specifically at higher ISO - 600mm on 5D3 or 400 on 5DSR cropped? The review touched on this slightly, but I'd be curious in a situation that you have a high-res sensor at a wider focal length vs. a lower-res sensor at a longer length so the image is framed identically, is there a difference quality-wise? Particularly since they are both FF sensors.

In my experience:
600mm + 5DS R>600mm +5DIII>400mm + 5DS R>400mm +5DIII

 

[Mikehit]

Oh yes. Had the main board replaced under carepak just before selling it. Used it during an event with light rain and a rain sleeve. My 7d2 has been exposed to torrential downpours without a sleeve and keeps on working. Canon told me that it was water corrosion damage and they were replacing the main board. To me the amount of rain it was exposed to was nothing. Tells me that the weather sealing is not that great.

REALLY glad canon started offering the carepak coverage. That was a 500.00 repair with the CPS discount. Ended up costing me nothing other than the shipping back to canon.

A lot of factors went into me letting it go and that was one of them.

Could have been a fluke or an assembly line error but water corrosion meant it had a straight shot to the guts...not like button malfunctions that many experience. Anyway don't expose the 5ds series cameras to much rain or keep your carepak coverage active.

Thanks for explaining it, Eastwind. Always good to hear personal experience (good and bad)