Wedding pics. need critique

GMCPhotographics

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Aug 22, 2010
1,682
385
50
Uk
www.GMCPhotographics.co.uk
filo64 said:
Hi GMCPhotographics,

no worries - without lots of practice and an artistic vein, no one can consistently apply the overwhelming number of often conflicting advice on forums. What forum advice does for me is it helps me think and realize what I want and where I stand.

To the OP: I like the pics, especially the lighting in the first one and the bokeh in some of the others on your flickr.

My advice is not to listen to simular contempories but find an artistic style which is purely your own look and view. Stick to it and evolve it into a disctinct style which seperates you from the crowd. Other wise you are just following what every one else is doing and there is nothing to make you unique and disctinct. Many of the great wedding photographers developed their skills over a long time, keeping with their vision and ethos, eventually their name became known due to their style.
If everyone just copies and rehashes old ideas then everyone becomes this amorphus mass of contradictions where the common denominator becomes very low.
Who we ask critiques from defines where we are in our skill set. My critiques come from a select group of experianced professionals who know me and support my vision. If you want to improve get it from professionals not from a bunch of people who probably know less than you do.
I no longer seek awards or medals, I've found that a lot of judges are sub competent in their genre...so why submit my work to them? If you want to announce the fact you've done a wedding, congraz welcome to the nut house ;)
 

distant.star

EOS 5D Mark IV
Jan 19, 2011
1,813
0
USA
wetracy.smugmug.com
GMCPhotographics said:
Sorry but I don't critique photos on open public forums. Why teach the countless wannabies who browse through these pages? Especially for free. My skill and tallent was learned the hard way, by trial and error...but a lot of wannabies want to take quick short cuts and think that a learnt skill can be downloaded and is free. For every poster and replier, there are hundreds of readers.

Why teach?

Because life is not a zero sum game? Because the whole is greater than the sum of its parts?

At my age I go to a lot more funerals than weddings. I've noticed the people who are grieved and who are genuinely missed are those who were generous -- with time and talent and love. They were the ones who gave back to their communities, and the photographic community is a community. Those who come here to learn are to be applauded, not considered leeches.

You might do well to sit down this evening and read a little story by Charles Dickens, A Christmas Carol. He wrote it so people might understand the joy of giving to one another. It's available free in e-reader editions, but you probably don't want to take it for free so there are versions you can pay for.

The community of people who genuinely care about the art of pictures is small. Those of us who do need to stick together and help one another -- even those too timid to come out and speak openly.
 

adebrophy

EOS M6 Mark II
Feb 8, 2012
55
0
www.xtrashot.com
GMCPhotographics said:
adebrophy said:
GMCPhotographics said:
Sorry but I don't critique photos on open public forums. Why teach the countless wannabies who browse through these pages? Especially for free. My skill and tallent was learned the hard way, by trial and error...but a lot of wannabies want to take quick short cuts and think that a learnt skill can be downloaded and is free. For every poster and replier, there are hundreds of readers.

Oh for goodness sake.... I usually don't critique people's comments on forums, why let people see my carefully honed skills of superciliousness and arrogance. For sure they would imitate and the internet really doesn't need any more screaming egos.
;D ;)

Screaming ego? Supercilious and Arrogant? No just a professional. I don't hand out my skill set on a plate to people I don't know. If you want to learn, go on a workshop and pay for your knowledge aquistion. You seem to throw an emotional responce to my company policy. There's at least three insults in your post. Maybe it's you who should take an ethics review?

OK. True enough. I was being rude to you. But then, considering the original request wasn't aimed at you in the first place, why go out of your way to say you won't help "one of countless wannabies" (seems insulting no?). you could just not answer. After all there are hundreds of readers for every poster. Going out of your way to say you won't help on a forum that - in part - has defined itself organically as a mutually supportive community for professionals and non pros alike seems, well, rude.

I think that deserves at least three insults. More possibly. Yep. Certainly more. But actually, as to ethics, flame wars like this are tedious to other users so apologies for all other for that. And being more positive: Distant.star did a better job of answering - well said, that poster.
 
W

woollybear

Guest
GMCPhotographics said:
Sorry but I don't critique photos on open public forums. Why teach the countless wannabies who browse through these pages? Especially for free. My skill and tallent was learned the hard way, by trial and error...but a lot of wannabies want to take quick short cuts and think that a learnt skill can be downloaded and is free. For every poster and replier, there are hundreds of readers.

Why are you participating in this forum?

I think there are two fundamental reasons to participate here. One, you have information to share so that others may learn. Two, you want information so that you may learn. You refuse to share your putative skill and tallent with others because you want their learning experience to be as difficult as you feel your own was. Yet you are here to benefit from what others have learned and are willing to share, presumably because makes it easier for you to learn new skills.

I find your attitude appallingly hypocritical.
 

CTJohn

EOS RP
Feb 24, 2012
250
5
distant.star said:
GMCPhotographics said:
Sorry but I don't critique photos on open public forums. Why teach the countless wannabies who browse through these pages? Especially for free. My skill and tallent was learned the hard way, by trial and error...but a lot of wannabies want to take quick short cuts and think that a learnt skill can be downloaded and is free. For every poster and replier, there are hundreds of readers.

Why teach?

Because life is not a zero sum game? Because the whole is greater than the sum of its parts?

At my age I go to a lot more funerals than weddings. I've noticed the people who are grieved and who are genuinely missed are those who were generous -- with time and talent and love. They were the ones who gave back to their communities, and the photographic community is a community. Those who come here to learn are to be applauded, not considered leeches.

You might do well to sit down this evening and read a little story by Charles Dickens, A Christmas Carol. He wrote it so people might understand the joy of giving to one another. It's available free in e-reader editions, but you probably don't want to take it for free so there are versions you can pay for.

The community of people who genuinely care about the art of pictures is small. Those of us who do need to stick together and help one another -- even those too timid to come out and speak openly.

+1
 

GMCPhotographics

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Aug 22, 2010
1,682
385
50
Uk
www.GMCPhotographics.co.uk
I am an open book where equipement is concearned. Ask anything of me in this genre and I will answer.
Ask anything conearning photography and I will help. But I won't pass on any marketing, promotional material. I don't comment on any commercial or skill set improvement where a professional service is concearned.
In my opinion, weddings should be left to professionals who do them a lot more and have the experiance to handle any situation or weather type and still get top dollar great shots consistently.
Composition or general photo improvement....that's a no too. You will also find that I don't post any of my professional wedding photos on here. I wouldn't dream of doing that to my brides.
Go ask a racing driver about his car and he'll talk all day. Ask him how to drive or how he takes his line and he will change the subject.
I have nurtured several 2nd photographers who are now full time. One of which has built a stronger business model than me, she always did have a head for business.
Don't confuse portraiture with wedding work. Wedding work contains some portraiture, but it's only one of the many skills required.
 

GMCPhotographics

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Aug 22, 2010
1,682
385
50
Uk
www.GMCPhotographics.co.uk
woollybear said:
GMCPhotographics said:
Sorry but I don't critique photos on open public forums. Why teach the countless wannabies who browse through these pages? Especially for free. My skill and tallent was learned the hard way, by trial and error...but a lot of wannabies want to take quick short cuts and think that a learnt skill can be downloaded and is free. For every poster and replier, there are hundreds of readers.

Why are you participating in this forum?

I think there are two fundamental reasons to participate here. One, you have information to share so that others may learn. Two, you want information so that you may learn. You refuse to share your putative skill and tallent with others because you want their learning experience to be as difficult as you feel your own was. Yet you are here to benefit from what others have learned and are willing to share, presumably because makes it easier for you to learn new skills.

I find your attitude appallingly hypocritical.

Ah...more name calling, nice. You do have a way with words don't you.

Wedding work crosses the line into professional work and that's why. Ask anything of me in the non professional arena and I will pass on what I can to the best of my ability. Non professional portraiture, open game, kids photos, dog photos, some aspects of landscape work, some comon wildlife. But nothing professional. Ask a professional footballer to teach, he'll pass on a few bits but he's not going to show them everything he knows, life just doesn't work like that. Another example, when ever I ask advice from my lawyer, it costs me.
 

Quasimodo

Easily intrigued :)
Feb 5, 2012
977
1
48
Oslo, Norway
www.500px.com
GMCPhotographics said:
woollybear said:
GMCPhotographics said:
Sorry but I don't critique photos on open public forums. Why teach the countless wannabies who browse through these pages? Especially for free. My skill and tallent was learned the hard way, by trial and error...but a lot of wannabies want to take quick short cuts and think that a learnt skill can be downloaded and is free. For every poster and replier, there are hundreds of readers.

Why are you participating in this forum?

I think there are two fundamental reasons to participate here. One, you have information to share so that others may learn. Two, you want information so that you may learn. You refuse to share your putative skill and tallent with others because you want their learning experience to be as difficult as you feel your own was. Yet you are here to benefit from what others have learned and are willing to share, presumably because makes it easier for you to learn new skills.

I find your attitude appallingly hypocritical.

Ah...more name calling, nice. You do have a way with words don't you.

Wedding work crosses the line into professional work and that's why. Ask anything of me in the non professional arena and I will pass on what I can to the best of my ability. Non professional portraiture, open game, kids photos, dog photos, some aspects of landscape work, some comon wildlife. But nothing professional. Ask a professional footballer to teach, he'll pass on a few bits but he's not going to show them everything he knows, life just doesn't work like that. Another example, when ever I ask advice from my lawyer, it costs me.

You must be an exceptional photographer. Considering your interpersonal skills; your images must be stunning given that you are still in business!
 

cayenne

EOS R6
CR Pro
Mar 28, 2012
2,553
534
x2z2001 said:
hey CRF,

I shot a Wedding this Weekend and i was happy with the outcome, but could use some critique on my work. Just trying to get better so good or bad critique welcome.

Shot with a Canon 6D using the 24-105mm and a Sigma 50mm 1.4 lens. was going to rent a 70-200mm but i thought that space would limit the lens. should i have rented it anyways? ive never used a 70-200mm lens.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/x2z2001du/8932298506/#
http://www.flickr.com/photos/x2z2001du/8931676527/#
http://www.flickr.com/photos/x2z2001du/8931665953/#
http://www.flickr.com/photos/x2z2001du/8932373318/#
http://www.flickr.com/photos/x2z2001du/8931706561/#

Loved the first one.
2nd one, I'm not so crazy about. It may just be me, but I prefer the rings pics to be off the hands in a creative manner, up close, full detail.
3rd one I like the shot, but maybe a little too much headroom? I do like the couple in it!!
4th one, like other said, I'd maybe drop it a bit closer.
The last one...nice kiss, but I'd for sure crop out the other cameraman on the right....and maybe in post if you could lose the microphone and stand...?

I've not shot and wedding, just my observations. I've been watching a lot of videos, especially on Creative Live and seeing what people there show for wedding shots and editing...and many of my comments come from that and just what hit me personally about the images.

Looks like it was a nice day!

cayenne
 

cayenne

EOS R6
CR Pro
Mar 28, 2012
2,553
534
GMCPhotographics said:
<snip>
In my opinion, weddings should be left to professionals who do them a lot more and have the experiance to handle any situation or weather type and still get top dollar great shots consistently.
<snip>
Hey, everyone has to start somewhere.

And if someone is starting out, it is best they have as much info as to what to do as possible so that those early customers have their wedding shots done in a manner they will enjoy. Sure, they're not going to be top $ customers, but anyone like this guy starting out and asking and trying, IS trying to do his best for his customers at this early stage.

Anyone that is trying to learn a new skill, asks others that have more experience. If you don't want to help, fine, but no need to make a big deal out of it. Why even post that if you're not interested in contributing?

Also, you might want to check your spell checker. (experiance ?)
 

Tabor Warren Photography

I want to go shoot something with a Canon...
Feb 2, 2012
275
1
Tulsa, OK
www.photosbytabor.com
cayenne said:
GMCPhotographics said:
<snip>
In my opinion, weddings should be left to professionals who do them a lot more and have the experiance to handle any situation or weather type and still get top dollar great shots consistently.
<snip>
Hey, everyone has to start somewhere.

Hey Cayenne,

Thank you for bringing the focus back for the OP. You hit the nail on the head by mentioning that we all have to start somewhere.

x2z2001,

I stayed away from weddings and only did portrait work until a wedding essentially presented itself to me, as has occurred with many posters on this forum. I have greatly upgraded my equipment since then and am not afraid to rent anything if the event needs something special. I conduct myself in a professional manner and having just finished up my final May wedding, I have 3 more weddings this June alone. When was my first? Last November. I've been continuously booking from now until next April, (before the wolves descend, I know that multiple bookings over the next calendar year are nothing new to 'real' professional wedding photographers). Remember to conduct every little detail in a professional manner, it has been my goal since the first wedding I had, and who knows, I may even work my way out of wannabe mode one day! ;D

Cheers,
-Tabor
 

cayenne

EOS R6
CR Pro
Mar 28, 2012
2,553
534
Tabor Warren Photography said:
cayenne said:
GMCPhotographics said:
<snip>
In my opinion, weddings should be left to professionals who do them a lot more and have the experiance to handle any situation or weather type and still get top dollar great shots consistently.
<snip>
Hey, everyone has to start somewhere.

Hey Cayenne,

Thank you for bringing the focus back for the OP. You hit the nail on the head by mentioning that we all have to start somewhere.

x2z2001,

I stayed away from weddings and only did portrait work until a wedding essentially presented itself to me, as has occurred with many posters on this forum. I have greatly upgraded my equipment since then and am not afraid to rent anything if the event needs something special. I conduct myself in a professional manner and having just finished up my final May wedding, I have 3 more weddings this June alone. When was my first? Last November. I've been continuously booking from now until next April, (before the wolves descend, I know that multiple bookings over the next calendar year are nothing new to 'real' professional wedding photographers). Remember to conduct every little detail in a professional manner, it has been my goal since the first wedding I had, and who knows, I may even work my way out of wannabe mode one day! ;D

Cheers,
-Tabor

Thanks Tabor!!

Good luck to you.

If you don't mind me asking...do you work alone Lone Wolf style, or do you shoot with someone else?

From all that I've been studying on this, while you can do a good job alone, man, you gotta know your stuff...and with 2 or more shooters that work well together, you can cover so much more, especially the unexpected. Not to mention, you can be shooting the ceremony,and another camera could be shooting the reception room before people get in...having 2x people to shoot bride and groom makes things easier..etc.

Just curious what you do, and if you could describe your situation how you find it doing it your way?

TIA,

cayenne
 

Tabor Warren Photography

I want to go shoot something with a Canon...
Feb 2, 2012
275
1
Tulsa, OK
www.photosbytabor.com
Hey Cayenne,

For portrait work, flying solo is nothing new or unheard of for me. Weddings, however, I trust a second photographer to do their part. Fortunately for me, my wife is my co-photographer. She primarily runs her 60D and 35L for the majority of every wedding, this allows me to switch between the 17-40L and 70-200 2.8ii. This set up is simple and gives us great results.

Our last wedding was in a lodge on a very rainy night. I rented the 50 1.2L and 24-70ii both of which I've considered buying. The 24-70ii was AMAZING, but darn expensive, so we're going to wait just a little bit before pulling the trigger on that one. One thing we learned though, we both needed a flash, it seems obvious looking back, (hindsight's 20/20), but I was hoping the 50L at 1.2 on a 5Dii would absorb enough light, which was true for the most part, however, a flash on my body would have made my life so much easier. Within a week, I bought the 600EX-RT. It was a lesson learned the hard way for me, and if I can help out any other forum member by sharing my experience then it gives me the warm fuzzies and I know others will help me with future insight. The image below was shot w/o a flash, 5Dii, 50mm, f/1.2, iso 4,000 and 1/160, so it was still capable of performing when tested.

As for the method to our madness; my wife is incredibly personable and works tremendously well with the brides. I can fairly quickly become friends with the groom and groomsmen. I trust that she takes care of business and likewise, she feels the same for me. I spend the majority of my time, pre-ceremony, following the groom with the exception of spending time, taking ring shots, wedding dress pics, makeup, etc. From the ceremony onward, the bride is our major focus. If things are slow, we attempt to get portraits of every person who came to the wedding, focusing on the oldest and the youngest.

I think anyone could write a book on what they have learned from their first, second, and third wedding. If I can help you or anyone else, feel free to PM me or shoot me an email. It's my way of paying it forward, for those who have helped me in the beginning.

Cheers,
-Tabor
 

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cayenne

EOS R6
CR Pro
Mar 28, 2012
2,553
534
Tabor Warren Photography said:
Hey Cayenne,

For portrait work, flying solo is nothing new or unheard of for me. Weddings, however, I trust a second photographer to do their part. Fortunately for me, my wife is my co-photographer. She primarily runs her 60D and 35L for the majority of every wedding, this allows me to switch between the 17-40L and 70-200 2.8ii. This set up is simple and gives us great results.

Our last wedding was in a lodge on a very rainy night. I rented the 50 1.2L and 24-70ii both of which I've considered buying. The 24-70ii was AMAZING, but darn expensive, so we're going to wait just a little bit before pulling the trigger on that one. One thing we learned though, we both needed a flash, it seems obvious looking back, (hindsight's 20/20), but I was hoping the 50L at 1.2 on a 5Dii would absorb enough light, which was true for the most part, however, a flash on my body would have made my life so much easier. Within a week, I bought the 600EX-RT. It was a lesson learned the hard way for me, and if I can help out any other forum member by sharing my experience then it gives me the warm fuzzies and I know others will help me with future insight. The image below was shot w/o a flash, 5Dii, 50mm, f/1.2, iso 4,000 and 1/160, so it was still capable of performing when tested.

As for the method to our madness; my wife is incredibly personable and works tremendously well with the brides. I can fairly quickly become friends with the groom and groomsmen. I trust that she takes care of business and likewise, she feels the same for me. I spend the majority of my time, pre-ceremony, following the groom with the exception of spending time, taking ring shots, wedding dress pics, makeup, etc. From the ceremony onward, the bride is our major focus. If things are slow, we attempt to get portraits of every person who came to the wedding, focusing on the oldest and the youngest.

I think anyone could write a book on what they have learned from their first, second, and third wedding. If I can help you or anyone else, feel free to PM me or shoot me an email. It's my way of paying it forward, for those who have helped me in the beginning.

Cheers,
-Tabor

Thank you for the insight!!

Nice pic, I like that!!

Do you find you have much trouble with noise at those ISO's without flash?
 

Tabor Warren Photography

I want to go shoot something with a Canon...
Feb 2, 2012
275
1
Tulsa, OK
www.photosbytabor.com
It really depends. Indoors, when light is accessible, the max I ever push is 3,200, at 4,000 I'm sure the noise would be unbearable. If I absolutely have to. 2,500 puts my heart more at ease for noise, but I rarely even go over 800. Outside, however, I think there is more wiggle room. Softness, shallow depth of field, and even a little under-exposed images can be acceptable if that is what the surrounding conditions limit me to. In the same breath though, this image is one of the many reasons I purchased a second flash. Any time I can keep my iso low I do. I became very confident in using the 430ex ii, so the use of our new flash has become a little easier.
 

cayenne

EOS R6
CR Pro
Mar 28, 2012
2,553
534
Tabor Warren Photography said:
It really depends. Indoors, when light is accessible, the max I ever push is 3,200, at 4,000 I'm sure the noise would be unbearable. If I absolutely have to. 2,500 puts my heart more at ease for noise, but I rarely even go over 800. Outside, however, I think there is more wiggle room. Softness, shallow depth of field, and even a little under-exposed images can be acceptable if that is what the surrounding conditions limit me to. In the same breath though, this image is one of the many reasons I purchased a second flash. Any time I can keep my iso low I do. I became very confident in using the 430ex ii, so the use of our new flash has become a little easier.

Thanks.

Over the past couple weeks...I've managed to pick up a couple of 600EX-RT's on the Canon refurb site....and just now playing with them and having a blast....so, I can definitely see how they are such a valuable tool...

Thank you again for the info and insight!

C
 
Jun 8, 2013
6
0
GMCPhotographics, I think at the heart of your comments you are making a decent point, put you are presenting it in a way that makes you look like an arrogant jerk. It took you like 5 comments to say what you should have made clear from the beginning.

OP, I really like these pictures overall. My favorite is the middle one, at night. The off-center framing works very nicely. The kiss at the end is great too (though I recommend considering cropping out the photographer at right ;) ). I think either the second is the weakest overall, and I think for me it's simply because the pose looks too unnatural.

And Tabor Warren, I really like your photo too! It seems a little out of focus to me but I don't think that works against it at all.
 

RGF

How you relate to the issue, is the issue.
Jul 13, 2012
2,819
36
Clicked the first link and saw some great work.

Is the client happy? THat is much more important than what we think.
 

bdunbar79

EOS R6
May 16, 2012
3,152
0
41
Wadsworth, OH
GMCPhotographics said:
Sorry but I don't critique photos on open public forums. Why teach the countless wannabies who browse through these pages? Especially for free. My skill and tallent was learned the hard way, by trial and error...but a lot of wannabies want to take quick short cuts and think that a learnt skill can be downloaded and is free. For every poster and replier, there are hundreds of readers.

Thanks, that was really helpful.
 

Northstar

EOS 5D Mark IV
Mar 31, 2012
1,673
0
106
US - Midwest
distant.star said:
GMCPhotographics said:
Sorry but I don't critique photos on open public forums. Why teach the countless wannabies who browse through these pages? Especially for free. My skill and tallent was learned the hard way, by trial and error...but a lot of wannabies want to take quick short cuts and think that a learnt skill can be downloaded and is free. For every poster and replier, there are hundreds of readers.

Why teach?

Because life is not a zero sum game? Because the whole is greater than the sum of its parts?

At my age I go to a lot more funerals than weddings. I've noticed the people who are grieved and who are genuinely missed are those who were generous -- with time and talent and love. They were the ones who gave back to their communities, and the photographic community is a community. Those who come here to learn are to be applauded, not considered leeches.

You might do well to sit down this evening and read a little story by Charles Dickens, A Christmas Carol. He wrote it so people might understand the joy of giving to one another. It's available free in e-reader editions, but you probably don't want to take it for free so there are versions you can pay for.

The community of people who genuinely care about the art of pictures is small. Those of us who do need to stick together and help one another -- even those too timid to come out and speak openly.

Very well written....and i echo the sentiment.
 
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