What’s next from Canon?

Sharlin

EOS R
CR Pro
Dec 26, 2015
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Turku, Finland
Do you realize the current 90D "metering sensor" is basically an RGB+IR 220,000 pixel CMOS sensor? And that the 1D X Mark II, 1D X, 5D Mark IV, 7D Mark II, 80D, 77D, Rebel T7i/800d, etc. have similar RGB+IR metering sensors?
I definitely do. But it's not a DPAF metering sensor. As to the resolution, the idea was mainly that upping it to the megapixel range would improve feature detection, bringing it closer to what a DPAF main image sensor is capable of.

As for ripping out the mirror, it's called "Live View."
Note that I said secondary mirror. That is, instead of taking the light that goes through the semitransparent part of the main mirror and redirecting it to a PDAF sensor, just let it hit the image sensor (the shutter would be open like in full Live View) and let DPAF do its job. The idea is that OVF would remain available. The effective aperture and thus the achievable phase difference would be constrained, and there would be vignetting, of course.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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I'm not picking an argument with you, just making a statement. There is nothing wrong with overkill, might not be for everyone but if you only want 1 camera to do it all then a high MP camera can. You just have to be willing to carry the overhead of more HD capacity. As far as shutter speed is concerned what's the problem? Here are 2 shots from this morning that were shot hand held. The first is 1/6 sec at 6400 ISO through my kitchen window, the second 1/60 sec at 500 ISO, both with the 5DsR and 24-70 F4. I couldn't do any better with my 5D MK II 21 MP. I don't have a problem with shutter speed. Exactly! The last is a 100% crop. My 5D MK II couldn't do that nearly as well. Just saying................View attachment 187473

View attachment 187474

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I'm not picking an argument with you, just making a statement. There is nothing wrong with overkill, might not be for everyone but if you only want 1 camera to do it all then a high MP camera can."

So how about shooting 10+ fps for sports/action/wildlife in motion?

No single camera can "do it all" as well as other cameras can for specific purposes. High MP cameras are specialized tools, just as very high frame rate cameras are. More general "all purpose" cameras balance the suitability for most use cases somewhere in between the extremes of the specialty cameras.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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I definitely do. But it's not a DPAF metering sensor. As to the resolution, the idea was mainly that upping it to the megapixel range would improve feature detection, bringing it closer to what a DPAF main image sensor is capable of.
Even at lower resolutions, the cameras with enough processing power to do iTR integrate the input from the RGB metering sensor with the input from the PDAF sensor for tracking moving subjects.

Note that I said secondary mirror. That is, instead of taking the light that goes through the semitransparent part of the main mirror and redirecting it to a PDAF sensor, just let it hit the image sensor (the shutter would be open like in full Live View) and let DPAF do its job. The idea is that OVF would remain available. The effective aperture and thus the achievable phase difference would be constrained, and there would be vignetting, of course.
I did miss the "secondary" part of that.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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Precisely.



And then you get to define what a "professional" is!

One definition is anyone who has ever made money, ever, at the activity. Well, I've grossed 15 dollars, and it was even to two totally different people. Does that make me a professional?

I rather think a more useful concept would be "someone who makes a living at it" which certainly wouldn't be me.

In my sig I state that I don't want to be an amateur forever; what I mean by that is that I want the quality of my output to be on a par with those who make a living at it; not that I want to change careers.
I know people who make a significant portion (i.e. over 50%) of their income from photography whose work is pretty much pure mediocrity or worse. Classifying whether a photographer is a "pro" or not based on the quality of their photographic work makes about as much sense as classifying a camera as "pro" or not based on its specs. What most independent "pro" photographers are very good at is marketing and running a business.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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Exactly.

Also, on the Canon Professional Services site, devoted specifically to cameras and equipment that *they* deem to be used in a professional manner and thus are covered under the specialized CPS repair plan, the Canon R is one of the cameras. As a matter of fact, in "qualifying points" which is what you need to gain CPS repair status, the EOS R ranks higher than the 5D Mark III. I'd find it hard to argue that Canon doesn't consider the R one of their cameras that is used in a professional setting.


ps. I don't own an R, just pointing our the relevant info

View attachment 187483

Points are also partially based on the age of a model (when it was introduced and when it was replaced).

The 5D Mark II (as of 11/17/2019) no longer earns any points and is no longer qualified for CPS repairs in the U.S. It once was worth at least 5 points. The 5D Mark III was introduced in 2012 and replaced in 2016 (three years ago), the R is a current camera that was only introduced in 2018.

Edit: Or maybe they just listed it below the EOS 5Ds R instead of with the 5D Mark IV and 5D Mark III... :rolleyes:

The EF 24-70mm f/2.8 L is no longer worth any qualifying points, but is still eligible for CPS repairs (as of 11/17/2019). Introduced in 2002, it was replaced by the EF 24-70mm f/2.8 L II in 2012. At one time it was worth 6-8 points.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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My wish list for the next mirror-less cam:

83MP camera with Medium and small RAW modes (41 and 20MP) also crop modes included to use APSC framing in the Viewfinder.

-The Medium and Small RAW modes would have increased FPS, let's say 80MP come in 4 to 5fps, 40MP in 7 or 8 fps and then 20MP can shoot at 14/16 fps
-The APSC crop would be a 32MP one with 12fps. Maybe even more crop modes.
-AF: passing from dual pixel to quadruple pixel AF
-Medium/small RAW use a quad Bayer sensor alike binning to bring cleaner high ISO
-IBIS to allow AI in a night mode picture style. (If phones can do what they do, what could they do with a FF sensor...)
-4G connection and APP/features like send to email, upload to Dropbox, to backup pictures in multiple locations worldwide and plan the editing before hitting the workstation. Also allow bricking and find the location of the camera in case of theft
-In camera encrypted SSD drive. Bye bye memory cards
-USB-C type port for Thunderbolt speed transfer or charging the camera without taking the battery off if required.
-Ultrawide touch screen with configurable zones/shortcuts (this allows more space on top of the camera for wheel controls and buttons and adding specific controls for the right hand) one can see changing in a hybrid VF

All that in a body evolved from the R but with the joystick AF-ON feature rumored in the 1DXIII.

A camera for nearly everything. I know, I ask way much.
That may or may not happen, but all of the Canon cameras introduced with .cr3 raw output do not offer M-RAW and S-RAW options. The only raw options are uncompressed (RAW) or slightly compressed (C-RAW) full resolution raw output.

Pixel binning isn't as simple as some folks think. The 'red', 'green', and 'blue' filters on Bayer arrays are NOT the same colors as the "RED", "GREEN", and "BLUE" used in RGB color space. There are significant differences, particularly with 'red' filters centered on about 590nm (yellow with just a touch of orange) compared to 640nm ("RED" in the RGB system).

Too many scenarios require removable memory so that runners can move files to the next point in the distribution chain while the camera is still being used to shoot an event for there to be a "pro" camera body with non-removable memory. Also, flash memory has a limited number of write cycles. At some point the internal SSD will need replacing. And you'll need *dual* SSDs to provide the same redundancy of dual card slots.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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I think the term one is looking for is "heavy duty" vs "standard duty"... both of which are used by professionals according to their use case. Some guy scaling mountains is no more the professional than the guy making his living in a studio. The daredevils are few and far between. Whether a guy uses Craftsman vs Snap-on has nothing to do with his competence. The idea that either camp "abuses" his equipment is irrelevant. A professional who does so intentionally is either an idiot or has more money than good sense.

In my opinion there is no such thing as a professional body, just professional photographers... meaning people who have reached a certain level of competence and can make a living at it. All the hand wringing about whether a camera itself is "professional" is a little silly. A person doesn't have to use a 1DX Mark III to be a professional. What makes one a pro is not his gear, but his work. Period.

New Zealander Burt Munro, who set a world land speed record, comes to mind.
Most pros ultimately don't make a living from it because of the level of their work. They make a living from it because they have high level marketing, social, and business skills, even if their work is fairly pedestrian.

Sure, there are the world famous "rock stars" that do work with exceptional quality, but most pros aren't those type of shooters.

Most pros aren't even commercial photographers that do well because they can listen to their customers and give them the images their customer wants instead of the (more creative and more artistically pleasing) images the shooter would like to make.

They're wedding and portrait photographers who know how to find customers and make the customer feel like they are getting something of value. I can't tell you how many relatively popular wedding photogs I know whose work isn't really all that great. But their clients eat up all of the social media activity they do about how "wonderful it was to spend time with this awesome couple on their special day documenting their [insert sappy romantic shlock here] for each other."
 
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Michael Clark

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I had friends who exclusively bought Snap-On, Mac, etc. If a wrench showed signs of being beaten by a hammer (to free up a nut or bolt) then warranty was denied. Never such a problem with Craftsman's UNCONDITIONAL warranty (at the time, anyway).

From Snap-on's website: "In addition to any limitations outlined in warranty statements provided with the Product, Snap-on does NOT provide any warranty for (1) products labeled other than Snap-on or Blue-Point or (2) products subjected to "abnormal use". Products that are not labeled Snap-on or Blue-Point are subject to the warranty provided by the manufacturers of those products and Snap-on will pass along any such warranties. "Abnormal use" includes misuse, accident, modification, unreasonable use, abuse, neglect, lack of maintenance, use in product-related service, or use after the product is significantly worn. Abnormal use of tool storage units also includes, without limitation, situations when a unit is pulled using a mechanical vehicle, rolled over large drops, used in a highly corrosive environment, used as a step stool, modified with non-Snap-on parts, overloaded or modified in any way. "

From Craftsman: https://www.craftsman.com/customer-care/warranty-information

Of course, my tools were purchased during the Reagan administration. I have replaced 1 screwdriver I used as a chisel. No questions asked. I replaced many tools because I worked in a lot of acid (cupric, nitric, etc.) with no questions asked. My friends using Mac and Snap-on were denied warranty because those companies determined the tools were abused in such an environment. The only other alternative would have been titanium tools, but nobody was going to spend on those. I stuck to Craftsman.

Anyway, the point is that a 1DX carries no more warranty than the Rebels. 1 year. So paying extra doesn't guarantee anything. It doesn't make it more professional, although we would all agree it is a much tougher camera. It will take more abuse. But people saying they abuse their equipment because it can be abused more are just silly. If I had a 1DX... I would baby it. ;)
In my experience, the older Craftsman tools were tougher than the newer ones. Sure, they'll still replace them, but that doesn't do you much good if you're out on a 2 a.m. service call on the side of the highway in the middle of nowhere and you break a wrench you NEED to get that drive shaft out of a Volvo truck tractor (with bolts that haven't been moved since it left the factory when they were torqued at about 500 lb-ft.) so that you can tow it a hundred miles to the Volvo dealer without burning out the transmission or having to pull all of the axle shafts and then spend more time lining them back up when you deliver it than you spent towing it.
 
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Michael Clark

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I find it hard to shoot anything at a lower resolution given the flexibility available at high resolution. I shoot sports at 50mp RAW because I would rather manage the RAW buffer then deal with anything less.

That said: there are mraw and sraw modes on the 5Ds, along with a large number of JPEG resolutions. I see no reason why the high resolution R won't have these as well. The 'Rs' won't be a niche camera due to resolution, but due to price. I imagine most people would rather pay less for less megapixels and maybe a small bump in fps or better video features.

Canon always had far more aggressive pricing on the 5Ds/sR models in Asia and almost from their release date they could be found for $2k gray market. Maybe we'll get lucky and the same will be true for the Rs.
None of the newer EOS models with .cr3 raw output include options for M-RAW or S-RAW. Only for full resolution uncompressed (RAW) or slightly compressed (C-RAW) files.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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I had friends who exclusively bought Snap-On, Mac, etc. If a wrench showed signs of being beaten by a hammer (to free up a nut or bolt) then warranty was denied. Never such a problem with Craftsman's UNCONDITIONAL warranty (at the time, anyway).

From Snap-on's website: "In addition to any limitations outlined in warranty statements provided with the Product, Snap-on does NOT provide any warranty for (1) products labeled other than Snap-on or Blue-Point or (2) products subjected to "abnormal use". Products that are not labeled Snap-on or Blue-Point are subject to the warranty provided by the manufacturers of those products and Snap-on will pass along any such warranties. "Abnormal use" includes misuse, accident, modification, unreasonable use, abuse, neglect, lack of maintenance, use in product-related service, or use after the product is significantly worn. Abnormal use of tool storage units also includes, without limitation, situations when a unit is pulled using a mechanical vehicle, rolled over large drops, used in a highly corrosive environment, used as a step stool, modified with non-Snap-on parts, overloaded or modified in any way. "

From Craftsman: https://www.craftsman.com/customer-care/warranty-information

Of course, my tools were purchased during the Reagan administration. I have replaced 1 screwdriver I used as a chisel. No questions asked. I replaced many tools because I worked in a lot of acid (cupric, nitric, etc.) with no questions asked. My friends using Mac and Snap-on were denied warranty because those companies determined the tools were abused in such an environment. The only other alternative would have been titanium tools, but nobody was going to spend on those. I stuck to Craftsman.

Anyway, the point is that a 1DX carries no more warranty than the Rebels. 1 year. So paying extra doesn't guarantee anything. It doesn't make it more professional, although we would all agree it is a much tougher camera. It will take more abuse. But people saying they abuse their equipment because it can be abused more are just silly. If I had a 1DX... I would baby it. ;)
Both the Rebels and the 1-Series have one year warranties. But it's fairly well known that Canon sometimes does out of warranty repairs to 1-Series cameras at no charge if it is likely the issue was caused by a manufacturing defect. I've known more than one 1-Series shooter who got a shutter replacement at no charge when their shutter failed at well less than the Canon published "shutter rating" even though their cameras were well out of the one year warranty period.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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I cannot say I don't understand you. I still use a 5DIII, the files are quick to load + process. But I feelI could have cleaner images in Low ISO and a better AF in low light while also adding a higher resolution.

Let's say I have an 83MP sensor, why should all the pics be 83MP? that's why Canon created MRAW and SRAW. If you can get MRAW at 41MP and SRAW at 20.5 with a cleaner ISO and higher fps...Why would you complain about having that flexibility?
Have you used any of the newer bodies with .cr3 raw output? There are no M-RAW or S-RAW options with those cameras. Canon may or may not include such options in an 80+ MP R body, but I wouldn't bet on it at this point.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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Given the large decline in camera sales this yr, across all brands, including both DSLRs and Mirrorless total unit sales, it's somewhat surprising that Canon, Nikon, etc., continue to crank out all these new products. I, for one, am especially grateful that Canon continues to develop and market all these new RF lenses, as we also eagerly wait for the next gen R bodies to come to market, enhancing our ability to take full advantage of the aforementioned. Shortly, the big box camera stores will parade their Black Fri sales and inundate our email boxes with their promos. Should be some great sales going on shortly, especially on the DLSR bodies. Last yr, I picked up a 6d Mark ii body, a free Canon grip and accident and spills warranty for what I considered a bargain price of only $1099.00. Who knows what we'll see with this yr's sale promos across both DSLR and Mirrorless lines. Can't wait for those bargains, as we've already seen price drops prior to Black Fri sales. Just hope I've saved up enough money to take advantage of them.
Canon did the same promo again in June of this year (free grip plus 13 month CarePak) for both the 6D Mark II and the 5D Mark IV. I picked up a 5D Mark IV for only $2,599. The price has since dropped to $2,499, but there's currently no free grip or 13 months of CarPak included. I think the 6D Mark II deal in June was for $1,199.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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The camera has a feature where when you press the af-on button, when reviewing pictures, it zoomes in very close and exactly there, where the camera focused.
when i take pictures in generall, but also on a tripod, then the area a few centimeters behind the position i wanted to focus on is clearly sharper then what i (and the camera) focused on.

its consistent across all images, but its a very small backfocus. My dealership clearly saw the error when i showed them and could also replikate it themselves, but the sony repair center here in germany can currently not reprocude it and i dont know why. its super obvious to me, and all my friends can see it. dunno why the sony center cant see it.
i currently have it in repair and it seems like they are gonna send it back saying "camera works fine"... then i dont have any legal basis for a refund or even a working camera because the repair shop says it works -.-

Edit: the repairshop has the Camera AND Lens with that the dealer and i can see the backfocus, so either way either on the lens or camera they should be able to find the backfocus but they dont.
What kind of target are you focusing on? The AF target should be flat and exactly parallel to the camera's sensor. If you're trying to AF on a tilted target, it's probably just a case of the area of sensitivity being larger than the size of the AF "point" displayed on your screen.
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,649
2,009
Alberta, Canada
What kind of target are you focusing on? The AF target should be flat and exactly parallel to the camera's sensor. If you're trying to AF on a tilted target, it's probably just a case of the area of sensitivity being larger than the size of the AF "point" displayed on your screen.
Hmm, parallel?? ;)

Jack