What will Canon bring to the table with the EOS R1?

HarryFilm

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2016
705
166
Exciting! I am glad this actually gives them time to work out all the details which would result of a more fine-tuned product in the end. Hope R1 will solve some of R5's pains in that it will have a bigger body, but given the weathering sealing, one might not expect magic when it comes to heat dissipation.

--

All Canon needs to do is put in a BIG high nickel content stainless steel plate on the bottom of the R1 that will act as the out-to-air thermal output of a BIG Internal Heat Sink for the internal high-heat-producing CPUs and RAM memory of the camera to give it a full non-overheating 12-to-16 hour shooting day typical of news reporting and sports/action workloads!

If Canon does that along with 60 fps fps DCI 8K 8192 x 4320 pixel video capture and 30 fps Burst rate Full-Size 3:2 stills, the R1 will be a total PRO-CAMERA category winner!

v
 

zim

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Oct 18, 2011
2,126
316
--

All Canon needs to do is put in a BIG high nickel content stainless steel plate on the bottom of the R1 that will act as the out-to-air thermal output of a BIG Internal Heat Sink for the internal high-heat-producing CPUs and RAM memory of the camera to give it a full non-overheating 12-to-16 hour shooting day typical of news reporting and sports/action workloads!

If Canon does that along with 60 fps fps DCI 8K 8192 x 4320 pixel video capture and 30 fps Burst rate Full-Size 3:2 stills, the R1 will be a total PRO-CAMERA category winner!

v
8k for 8k :cry:

How hot would the external surface get though? that's a certification issue.
 

usern4cr

R5
CR Pro
Sep 2, 2018
940
1,221
Kentucky, USA
If the R1 has a quad-pixel FF sensor with 8K video, that will be a lot to pack into a single 40+ MP sensor (probably ~45 MP with IBIS). I could see that being a possibility.

Or I could see them come out with a quadPixel FF sensor with 6K video, which would be (I assume) 6144 x 4096 = 25+ MP (probably ~30 MP with IBIS). That would allow it to be much faster and generate less heat, and possibly also allow them to add the (expensive) global shutter and still keep the cost down within reason (well, for a R1 flagship, that is).

I think they will probably have dual CFExpress-type B cards as pros will demand it, as well as a EVF similar to that in the Sony A1, both of which will also add more heat to the camera and thus might be another reason to have a ~30 MP sensor instead of a ~45 MP one. We'll see!
 

degos

EOS RP
Mar 20, 2015
371
305
Yes 30/32MP would be nice. Contrary to much opinion on this site, most 1D aren't used blasting away at sports events. All my town's newspaper photographers use them because they're burstproof, shrug off the rain and and have a familiar UI. They don't need 14fps for the Mayor opening a new garden centre but it doesn't hurt to have it to hand.

Sure they could probably make do using a 5D4 but if your salary depends on your photos, why take a risk? A 1D shoots and shoots and focuses like the pro it is.
 
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Joules

doom
CR Pro
Jul 16, 2017
1,539
1,831
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Yep, I can confirm that if someone writes the forbidden D word it gets changed to "Canon the best."
The forum is d.o.o.m.e.d :LOL:

Seriously though, altering peoples 'words' without any sort of marker or disclaimer is a pretty sh!tty move in my opinion.

Edit: Wow, even putting spaces in between is not enough! :mad: It got changed to 'the greatest'. If there has to be censorship, at least mark it as such, instead of secretly changing the opinion people are expressing into the opposite!
 
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padam

EOS R
Aug 26, 2015
1,157
765
Well, due to how the 1DX line has evolved over the years, I would think that apart from being a sports shooter, the R1 would also need to be useful as a B-cam sitting next to one of their professional video cameras.

And for them, a higher quality 4k60p 4k120p recording modes with less heat are more relevant than 8k.

So I would think if they start this line by sticking to evolving their current technology and not something that's yet more of a generation jump, they would use a 6k sensor which would enable full sensor internal RAW recording at 60p or maybe even higher to CFExpress cards, while controlling overheating. And it would do lots of fps as well.
But of course, this is the RF-mount, so a higher megapixel camera wouldn't be a bad thing to deploy on those new generation optics and of course processing may still provide a lower-resolution RAW output, if that's what the user prefers.

While the A1 has been presented, it is not given that Canon will aim to do exactly the same as the mirrorless model lineup on the Canon looks somewhat different, so I would not be surprised to see a camera clearly above the 1DX III, which is not going to just suddenly disappear.
 
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motorhead9999

I'm New Here
Apr 14, 2017
23
15
AND please ALSO NOTE Fuji's introduction of the GFX-100s camera for $5999 USD which offers a full 100 megapixel MF sensor!

See review:

Comparing the Sony A1 to the Canon R5 and the Fuji GFX-100s, I feel soooooo sorry for Sony that showed an UNDERWHELMING CAMERA when compared to the $3899 proper DCI-8K Hollywood Cinema/Netflix/Amazon/Apple-play production friendly 8129 x 4320 pixel Canon R5 camera and the 100 megapixel Medium Format Fuji GFX-100 for $5999 US.

The ONLY THING that gets me going for the $6498 USD Sony A1 is the 30 fps Burst Rate at the full 3:2 still photo size image frame and the 120 fps 4K video!

---

For the Best-Bang-For-The-Buck race, the winner is the Canon R5 for being $1500 cheaper than the Sony A1 and having full DCI 8K Hollywood Cinema production friendly video capture.

For the megapixel and light sensitivity race, the Fuji GFX 100s with 100 megapixels for $5999 WINS HANDS DOWN!

For compactness and toughness, the it's-a-steal for $349 GoPro Hero-8 Black with 60 fps 4K and 240 fps 1080p video is clipped to my helmet!

The Sony has 30 fps full-size still photos as 3:2 and 120 fps 4K video -- That's it!
Is that worth the $1500 Price Premium over the Canon R5?

If you're a TRUE Sony fan, then YES it's MUCH better camera than the Sony A92 but that $6499 price just kills me!

I someone gave be $6500 today, which camera would I buy of the above?

The answer is the Fuji GFX-100s cuz I want a truly LIGHT SENSITIVE MF sensor AND I WANT 100 megapixels!

V
Full disclosure: I'm mostly a Sony shooter, but still dabble in the Canon world.

You can't compare anything full frame to a medium format camera. It's like comparing an APS-C body to full frame. There's inherent differences in the sensor size and the images it can generate as well as pixel density. Furthermore, the GFX line is really "cropped" medium format. It's only marginally bigger than a full frame 35mm sensor, and doesn't come close to reaching the sensor size that's equivalent to the old Hasselblad 6x6 or Mamiya 6x7 format.

You know what else the GFX line can't do? Shoot at 30fps for 3-4 seconds, let alone keep autofocus going. But then that gets to the whole point of medium format. It's not a run and gun type camera. Medium format is meant to be either a studio queen, or a very methodical "always on a tripod" landscape camera. You're never going to have someone with a GFX or PhaseOne camera shooting a concert.

The R5 may very well trump the a1 in the video world. But honestly, there's a lot of us out here in the world who rarely if eve shoot video, let alone try and make a Netflix compliant TV show. You know what we're doing? Taking photos. And for those of us in the action world (concerts, sports, events etc), the ability to take 30fps with no evf blackout and still have 50mp to crop with is a huge thing, and far more important than 8k video recording capability.

The R5 is a fine camera.The Fuji GFX100s is a fine camera. The a1 is a fine camera. They are aimed at different areas, and it'll be up to the user to decide which is best for their needs.
 

David - Sydney

EOS RP
CR Pro
Dec 7, 2014
623
523
www.flickr.com
So I can tell you right now, as much as I want a massive resolution increase over the current 1DXIII, it will prevent many photographers from buying it. Unless Canon comes out with a better alternative to cRAW and allows us to shoot in smaller, more preferred resolutions, I and many others will struggle to justify making this our $6,000+ camera in the bag.

Why?

I was one of the first photographers in "my little slice" of the publishing industry that bought the R5. Several friends waited for my results before they pulled the trigger themselves and many of them shared my same criticism - 'I don't need 45mp to cover a race/event/wedding/real estate, etc.' I was quick to identify this and purchased the R6 to partner with my R5. Weddings in particular don't benefit from 45mp, it's more of a burden than anything else. At least in motorsports photography I can use that resolution for additional flexibility for cropping, in print or advertisement...but there is zero value in a 8192 x 5464 pixel dancefloor shot or cake cutting, so I lean on the R6 after the portrait session has concluded.

This is something many of us identify as a shortcoming of the R5 and it's rather upsetting. I hope that Canon reconsiders the importance of cRAW and can bring back an mRAW format that keeps things in the 12-15 and 20-26mp sweet spots. The argument of always shooting at the maximum resolution isn't exactly true for all of us. When I cover events I can shoot thousands of images a day for 3-4 days at a time and have to turn those around same day...and I still want the benefits of RAW, just not the resolution or file size. Yes, cRAW is roughly the size of a standard 20mp RAW out of the R6, but those images do NOT process easily in software like 20mp, as it chugs along to read the 45mp file format, versus blazing through a normal CR2/CR3 RAW...not sure why, but please give us back smaller RAW.
cRAW is basically to fix storage issues on the cards at the expense of slightly lossy images
The main issue (if I understand you correctly) is the processing speed... I get this and my 2013 i7 16GB macbook pro is running slower than with my 5Div files but I will upgrade this year. A new MBP with upgrade M1 chip should address any of these issues and handle the 4:2:2 video codec editing with ease.
 

David - Sydney

EOS RP
CR Pro
Dec 7, 2014
623
523
www.flickr.com
Well... you asked for my list :) I can't see the point of going past 45mp. It matches 8k/4k/2k resolutions perfectly and downsampling from >45mps to 8k is just extra processing power from 8.6k to 8k on the A1. Cropping would be worse I guess. Canon would go higher in price than the A1 to protect 1DXiii and the rugged 1D body form factor with the goodies below. Sync speed increase would be nice. Flippy screen should be there.

My guess for R1 is minimum specs as R5 but in 1D body ( AF-On smart controller buttons, dual CFe slots) with:
- Global shutter (no mechanical shutter). Rolling shutter artifacts significantly better than current electronic shutter
- 45mp sensor with IBIS (IBIS can be turned off)
- 30fps electronic shutter burst with full tracking - perhaps with buffer ie not unlimited
- ~20mp on-the fly over sampled (no lossy compression/cRAW/S-RAW) at full 30fps unlimited buffer. Best of both worlds.
- Dual Digic X to spread the heat generation and generate less heat per CPU
- Unlimited 8k cinema raw lite internal recording to CFe card capacity
- 6K/60. 4k/120 unlimited no crop internal recording.
- No line skipping/pixel binning 4k/6k modes ie oversampled from full sensor width
- 29:59 recording limit
- Clog2/3
- minimum 16fps using anti-flicker depending on frequency of the flicker lighting
- AF in very low light (quad pixel makes sense but would be equivalent to a 180mp sensor!)
- pixel shift high res stills
- 9+ megadot EFV with no blackout and fast refresh rates (at least 120fps). >0.5" in size
- full sized HDMI 2.1 port (48G) or thunderbolt 3 USB-C or both
- Mini XLR audio option
- Ethernet port
- Flippy screen included. This one I am not sure on but still needed I think. Weather sealing will need to be excellent though
USD10k

Won't directly compete with cinema line due to form factor but there will be a similar specced cinema form factor with unlimited 8k raw option, heaps of buttons and vented/fan cooled. Cxxx option will be more expensive.
 

Hector1970

EOS R
CR Pro
Mar 22, 2012
1,264
462
It will be interesting what the R1 will eventually be.
I guess the FPS will be all electronic shutter. They probably won't exceed the 1DXIII on the physical shutter.
I assume it will now be more that 30 FPS. It will definately have 45 / 50MP or more.
It will be interesting what progress they've made on focusing and tracking.
Even the 1DXIII which has very good focus still struggles to focus on small objects like birds in cluttered backgrounds.
The 20 MP on the 1DXIII I have always felt was too little. 30MP would have given it more longevity and all round usefulness.
It will be hard to sell 1DXIII with an R1 around. Canon may not be too concerned with that and be happy to bring the DSLR era to a close.

The 1DXIII is a great camera but it suddenly feels old fashioned. It's really huge and heavy.
A 5DIV which used to feel quite a solid weight feels lightweight in comparison.
I'd say the R1 will be smaller but can they somehow fit in an equivalent battery into it.
Battery life does matter and batteries will be expensive, large and heavy. You won't want to be carting around 3/4 of them.
While part of me would love 30 FPS I'd say the reality is that it would wreck your head sorting through the images.
Even with the 1DXIII at 16FPS a few seconds of holding down the button and you are swamped with similar images.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in Canon. Would they be shocked at the Sony A1 or be quitely confident that they have something coming thats even better?
 

HarryFilm

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2016
705
166
8k for 8k :cry:

How hot would the external surface get though? that's a certification issue.

---

At around 5 watts consumption for the ARM Cortex A5 and another 10 watts for the RAM over 16 hours you are looking at about 35 Celcius to 45 Celcius (120 F) at the stainless steel plate side of things which is a tad warm but not overly so, assuming the plate was at least 2 cm by 2 cm and 5mm thick.

Canon can use the camera tripod mounting plate as the out-to-air heat dissipation item. Just make it 2x2 cm or 3cm by 3cm and at least 5mm to 1 cm thick using high nickel content stainless steel (i.e. I would use 316L Grade Stainless Steel which is very corrosion resistant and has HIGH HEAT transfer capability)

Attached to an internal set of heat sinks that combined thermal dissipation and tripod mounting plate would basically let the camera work for the 12 to 16 hour days typical of news reporters, sports photographers and documentary videographers. I could do a thermal analysis and get a full thermal profile in about 48 hours if I wanted to change say a 1Dx3 over to an R5 sensor and a more powerful Octo-core CPU!

V
 
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domo_p1000

EOS-1D X MkIII EOS-1D X MkII
CR Pro
Aug 22, 2013
39
40
Well... you asked for my list :) I can't see the point of going past 45mp. It matches 8k/4k/2k resolutions perfectly and downsampling from >45mps to 8k is just extra processing power from 8.6k to 8k on the A1. Cropping would be worse I guess. Canon would go higher in price than the A1 to protect 1DXiii and the rugged 1D body form factor with the goodies below. Sync speed increase would be nice. Flippy screen should be there.

My guess for R1 is minimum specs as R5 but in 1D body ( AF-On smart controller buttons, dual CFe slots) with:
- Global shutter (no mechanical shutter). Rolling shutter artifacts significantly better than current electronic shutter
- 45mp sensor with IBIS (IBIS can be turned off)
- 30fps electronic shutter burst with full tracking - perhaps with buffer ie not unlimited
- ~20mp on-the fly over sampled (no lossy compression/cRAW/S-RAW) at full 30fps unlimited buffer. Best of both worlds.
- Dual Digic X to spread the heat generation and generate less heat per CPU
- Unlimited 8k cinema raw lite internal recording to CFe card capacity
- 6K/60. 4k/120 unlimited no crop internal recording.
- No line skipping/pixel binning 4k/6k modes ie oversampled from full sensor width
- 29:59 recording limit
- Clog2/3
- minimum 16fps using anti-flicker depending on frequency of the flicker lighting
- AF in very low light (quad pixel makes sense but would be equivalent to a 180mp sensor!)
- pixel shift high res stills
- 9+ megadot EFV with no blackout and fast refresh rates (at least 120fps). >0.5" in size
- full sized HDMI 2.1 port (48G) or thunderbolt 3 USB-C or both
- Mini XLR audio option
- Ethernet port
- Flippy screen included. This one I am not sure on but still needed I think. Weather sealing will need to be excellent though
USD10k

Won't directly compete with cinema line due to form factor but there will be a similar specced cinema form factor with unlimited 8k raw option, heaps of buttons and vented/fan cooled. Cxxx option will be more expensive.

I'd sign up for it (love the idea of mini XLR!).
That looks to be a sensible stab at the spec. While the pro line throws in the odd excitement every couple iterations (let's just gloss over the 1D III), it's important to remember that the line comes, necessarily from a fairly conservative stable (progressively better, yet superb fps; sensor resolution less of a consideration etc.). It almost saddens me that I have only ever switched across to video so I can use a 1DX3 as a webcam!!
 

AEWest

EOS RP
Jan 30, 2020
243
296
Prediction: The R1 will only be released this year if they actually go forward with the Olympics.
I don't get the ongoing fascination with summer Olympics. If it is cancelled, do we have to wait until 2024 for the R1?

There are major sports events ongoing throughout the world, it should be released when ready.

Of course, the competition may have just pushed up the timeline!
 
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HarryFilm

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2016
705
166
Full disclosure: I'm mostly a Sony shooter, but still dabble in the Canon world.

You can't compare anything full frame to a medium format camera. It's like comparing an APS-C body to full frame. There's inherent differences in the sensor size and the images it can generate as well as pixel density. Furthermore, the GFX line is really "cropped" medium format. It's only marginally bigger than a full frame 35mm sensor, and doesn't come close to reaching the sensor size that's equivalent to the old Hasselblad 6x6 or Mamiya 6x7 format.

You know what else the GFX line can't do? Shoot at 30fps for 3-4 seconds, let alone keep autofocus going. But then that gets to the whole point of medium format. It's not a run and gun type camera. Medium format is meant to be either a studio queen, or a very methodical "always on a tripod" landscape camera. You're never going to have someone with a GFX or PhaseOne camera shooting a concert.

The R5 may very well trump the a1 in the video world. But honestly, there's a lot of us out here in the world who rarely if eve shoot video, let alone try and make a Netflix compliant TV show. You know what we're doing? Taking photos. And for those of us in the action world (concerts, sports, events etc), the ability to take 30fps with no evf blackout and still have 50mp to crop with is a huge thing, and far more important than 8k video recording capability.

The R5 is a fine camera.The Fuji GFX100s is a fine camera. The a1 is a fine camera. They are aimed at different areas, and it'll be up to the user to decide which is best for their needs.

---

Actually, I did see someone shoot a Nightwish concert with a Phase One AND did the band interviews too!

That was in Germany a few years back -- AN AWESOME CONCERT BY THE WAY !!! Floor Jansen DEFINITELY CAN KEEP UP WITH Tarja Turunen in terms of the vocal gymnastics!


BEST SONG IS HERE starting at 1:06:22 and starting at 1:12:30 Floor Jansen REALLY AND COMPLETELY KILLS IT AWESOMELY WITH UTTERLY SPECTACULAR vocals:



YOU HAD TO BE THERE !!!!!!!!!!

WOW --- Best concert EVER And I have been to some of the BIGGEST IN THE WORLD --- Live Aid Wembley 1985, Stones UK, U2 Vancouver, Jean Micheal Jarre Paris with ONE MILLION+ concert goers, KISS Detroit, Bon Jovi LA, Nickelback TX, Motley Crue, Guns'n'Roses, DJ Tiesto, and YES! even Britney Spears in Las Vegas!

Out of all those, that Nightwish Wacken concert was the BEST EVER in terms of pure band AND crowd energy combined into a Operatic Metal Powerhouse Concert !!!!!!! You could literally FEEL the ripple of energy in the air!

V
 
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HarryFilm

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2016
705
166
---

Actually, I did see someone shoot a Nightwish concert with a Phase One AND did the band interviews too!

That was in Germany a few years back -- AN AWESOME CONCERT BY THE WAY !!! Floor Jansen DEFINITELY CAN KEEP UP WITH Tarja Turunen in terms of the vocal gymnastics!


YOU HAD TO BE THERE !!!!!!!!!!

WOW --- Best concert EVER And I have been to some of the BIGGEST IN THE WORLD --- Live Aid Wembley 1985, Stones UK, U2 Vancouver, Jean Micheal Jarre Paris with ONE MILLION+ concert goers, KISS Detroit, Bon Jovi LA, Nickelback TX and YES! even Britney Spears in Las Vegas!

Out of all those, that Nightwish Wacken concert was the BEST EVER in terms of pure band AND crowd energy combined into a Operatic Metal Powerhouse Concert !!!!!!! You could literally FEEL the ripple of energy in the air!

V


Actually, Sorry....there was ONE OTHER concert 2017 in Finland in an outlying hockey arena way north of Helsinki that had about 5000 people in it for a Scandanavian Metal band that was sort of a combined Nightwish, Sabaton and U2 .... That nearly 4 hour concert lasted until 2 am and was probably the WILDEST, NOISIEST and PURE ENERGY concert I HAVE EVER EVER SEEN... The crowd was non-stop --- If it was scaled up to the typical 70,000 person stadium rock concert it would have COMPLETELY SHOOK THE EARTH !!!!!!!!!! YOu were totally DEAFENED!!!!!

!!!!!!!


AND.... the ONLY pro cameras I saw were ALL Canon 5D3 and 1Dx -- Winters are COLD in Finland and only a good weather sealed camera like the 5D and 1D series can take that sort of weather up there. A Sony A9 or A7 series would have died in just a few minutes! Canon does weather sealing and harsh climate shooting VERY VERY WELL !!!!!

V
 
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Andy Westwood

EOS R6
CR Pro
Dec 10, 2016
146
226
UK
I can’t see many journalist / press photographers jumping to the a1 or pro sports shooters for that matter The lack of a built-in vertical grip and a body built like a tank wouldn’t last long with those photographers.

You only need look at used 1D bodies 2 years old with 600K activations battered and scuffed but still functioning as they should. I don’t think the Sony body would survive that type of abuse for very long, nor would those type of photographers want to use a smaller camera body.

I don’t think Canon will put an articulating screen on the R1 either, again I don’t think it would survive long protruding from the side of the body with many of these photographers that use a 1D.

Spec wise I’m sure Canon will get it right they know their 1D market better than anyone, but I do think there will be a bigger bump in mega pixels this time from pervious 1D models, given advancements with sensors, processors, transfer times and write-speeds. I also think Canon like Sony will make big improvements to their electronic shutter capabilities.

Yesterday was a good day for Sony users but also Canon users too as we look forward to Canon’s response with new and updated cameras always on the horizon.
 

slclick

EOS R3
Dec 17, 2013
4,397
2,544
What do you think of the size of a 1 series grip larger than the R5 yet smaller than the DSLR 1's? That's how I envision the body size of a mirrorless 1 series. Dual orientation, larger battery, moderate mp's (30+ but not over 45) tough as nails with more than 500k+ shutter actuations.
 

zim

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Oct 18, 2011
2,126
316
The forum is d.o.o.m.e.d :LOL:

Seriously though, altering peoples 'words' without any sort of marker or disclaimer is a pretty sh!tty move in my opinion.

Edit: Wow, even putting spaces in between is not enough! :mad: It got changed to 'the greatest'. If there has to be censorship, at least mark it as such, instead of secretly changing the opinion people are expressing into the opposite!

Agreed, we get it I'm a little tired of the '*******' joke as well but this is a very ill advised move by admin. It's a matter of trust. They should apologise
 
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