Which cheap telezoom for video?

[Videoshooter]

A slightly different question to the regular onslaught of "Which L-series lens should I trade my wife for?"...

I'll be going on a trip later in the year where I might be bringing my girlfriend along with me as a 2nd shooter and assistant. I'll be working on some surfing web-clips for various websites and magazines, and am planning to have my girlfiend shoot a 2nd angle of the action. What I'll need for her is a lens that is light, and has relatively good IQ (though I understand the constraints of budget tele-zooms and am not expecting miracles - just something that will cut together with my Sigma 150-500mm without instantly being noticeable). I'll basically pre-set the focus for her, and set the camera to auto-ISO (blashpemy, I know!) so all she needs to do is hit record and pan. So MF ring quality is not an issue - nor is any other build quality seeing as the lens will pretty much be thrown away after the trip. Things that are an issue are weight, size and price.

The lens will be used only outdoors in daylight, and I'll leave the aperture at about f/8-11 in order to increase the DOF and put the lens into it's sweet spot.

So basically what I'm looking for is the best optics possible in the budget 70-300mm range, regardless of all other factors such as build quality, AF speed, USM, etc.

IS is also a consideration - with a big question being whether or not any of these lenses have an IS tripod mode that can handle pans well. The lens will always be used on a fairly decent tripod (manfrotto 502HD head) but again, my girlfriend is not a trained camera operator and will need any help she can get.

With all that in mind, can anybody recommend any particular brand/lens?

Thanks in advance!

 

[paul13walnut5]

You don't mention which body, which has some bearing.

If it's an APS-C based body then the 55-250 is a very decent lens, optically at least for very little cash.

Within it's range it's probably the equal of your sigma in terms of IQ, the more expensive EF 70-300 IS is also a decent lens, optically. It has a tripod mode IS, which worked well enough for me for stills, never shot video with this particular lens.

Run away with great speed from the 75-300 varients. All pretty awful beyond 200mm and not that great on the way there.

If it's a lens you are quite happy to buy with the intention of ditching after then the old 70-210 f4 push pull type is optically pretty good. Horrifically slow AF, but even at f4, good enough for video. It is quite a solid lens, and so quite heavy. Can be bought for very cheap.

The 55-250 is very light and eminently usable after the trip.

 

[Videoshooter]

Thanks Paul.

I will have both a 5dmkII and a 60D with me. I'll most likely use the 60d myself for the extra telephoto reach and 60p slo-mo. Maybe it would be a good idea to also keep my 550D (I was planning on selling it to fund the 5dmkII) and bring that along, specifically to couple with the 55-250 IS.

When you say to avoid the 75-300 variants, do you refer to Sigma and Tamron as well, or just the Canon models?

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Here is a lot of background on a surfing video done with the 5D MK III and the Red. 1280mm equiv to get the closeups.
http://blog.vincentlaforet.com/category/jamieobrien/
Obviously, this was done with a big budget, but you might be able to glean some tips from it, like the need for ND filters.

 

[Videoshooter]

Thanks Mr Spokane.

I've shot plenty of surfing projects before (including being a camera assistant on projects shot with the Phantom). I'm also travelling to the location featured in those Vincent Laforet clips to shoot my project and have been there many times before, so know what to expect.

I know exactly what I am getting myself into; what I don't know is how best to set up my girlfriend as a 2nd operator.

Regarding ND filters, I used them for a while but actually hated the look of surfing at 1/50th shutter. It was basically all just a blur. These days I much prefer to shoot without ND and push the shutter speed up to around 1/1000th. It gives much crisper images with a really punchy, high energy feel. The 180 degree rule is fine for a lot of stuff but you need to know when it is appropriate to break the rules too.

 

[paul13walnut5]

If in doubt keep your second camera wider. Perhaps even significantly wider. Have the wide camera typically at 90 degrees (so maybe round the bay a bit shooting side on) to the main camera as this will assist the cut.

Wider the angle the easier to focus, or remain within hyperfocal range if you don't want her fiddling.
I would avoid the very fast shutters as these are going to necessitate a wider aperture.
Especially if you use a polariser, which I would seriously advocate.

I'm actually thinking, rather than a B camera on the shore why not get a gopro on the board?

 

[paul13walnut5]

@videoshooter

When you say to avoid the 75-300 variants, do you refer to Sigma and Tamron as well, or just the Canon models?

I haven't used recent Tamron or Sigma budget telezooms so can't comment. I have used the Canon 75-300's (iS, mk3's and all) and would urge you keep away from those.

 

[Videoshooter]

Thanks Paul.

The plan is to set my partner up directly infront of the break, shooting fairly wide (300mm equivelant is wide for surfing action!). I will then be running around getting the more creative angles (eg with trees & people in foreground, etc) as well as the really tight action stuff. If I recall correctly 40 degrees or thereabouts is the recommended minumum angle between different camera views, so I'll try to stick to that rule as much as possible. Obviously it becomes easier to switch angles if there is also a significant change in framing (ie wide to CU) so I'll be sure to follow your advice there. I'll also be doing some slider shots and cut-aways, as well as some water footage, and one of the main reasons I want a 2nd shooter there is so that I can shoot all that creative stuff without having to worry too much that I am missing all the good rides.

As for a GoPro, I will be using one, but not board mounted. It will either be carried by the riders in their trailing arm (so it looks forward as an OTS shot looking out of the tube) or I will be shooting with it myself from the water. I think you can get far more variety with these angles than just having the camera board-mounted.

I'm starting to lean towards the Canon 55-250, though I've also heard good things about the Tamron 70-300 VC. Anybody have experience with that particular lens?

 

[Ryan708]

I own a tamron 70-300 VC which is a nice price point and nice quality and has a ring type USM, However the vibration compensation(IS) is jerky when panning by hand. I dont have a nice fluid head but I would assume it does the same thing, which dissapoints me a lot. I wish the IS had a panning mode. Just a bit of info on this lens. I have a feeling a lot of the cheaper lenses have this issue.

 

[paul13walnut5]

To be fair Ryan, the lens was desighed to keep the shot steady for the duration of a photograph, not for the contiguous nature of video. I've seen in camcorder IS with a smooth mode, but not on photographic lenses.
I tend not to bother with it for video at all, as my camera is usually supported, negating the usefulness of it, and at a relatively fast shutter speed anyway (1/50th) which also kind of negates it's usefulness.

The lesson for all is that for video long lenses need decent support. Tripods with sandbags sometimes!!!

 

[Halfrack]

Would renting a 100-400 and using that and putting the 150-500 with your wife be an option?

 

[Videoshooter]

I own a tamron 70-300 VC which is a nice price point and nice quality and has a ring type USM, However the vibration compensation(IS) is jerky when panning by hand. I dont have a nice fluid head but I would assume it does the same thing, which dissapoints me a lot. I wish the IS had a panning mode. Just a bit of info on this lens. I have a feeling a lot of the cheaper lenses have this issue.

Thanks Ryan. I figured the IS on the cheaper lenses might not have a decent panning mode. It might be best If I go for one without IS seeing as this lens will only ever be used on a tripod and is pretty much gonna be disposable anyway.

Would renting a 100-400 and using that and putting the 150-500 with your wife be an option?

I wouldn't rule out renting if someone can point me towards an easy-to-deal-with rental house on Oahu. Local rental prices for me are ridiculous (about $200/day per for the cheaper L lenses) so renting here and taking it with me is not an option.

Regardless of rent or buy though, I wouldn't want the 100-400 - If I was wanting another lens that size I'd be better off getting a 2nd 150-500 which would be cheaper and would match up perfectly.

 

[Ryan708]

THis is true the IS was not designed for video, but I owned my 17-70 sigma first which is so smooth in video I got spoiled and thought it to be the norm haha.

 

[Videoshooter]

THis is true the IS was not designed for video, but I owned my 17-70 sigma first which is so smooth in video I got spoiled and thought it to be the norm haha.

I'm actually impressed by most IS systems when handholding, considering video is not their main focus - I've seen good results from both Canon and Sigma in video mode. On a tripod though, it's a different story and most lenses need to have IS turned off. The tripod panning mode is becoming more and more common though, and is very helpful when using a tripod in strong winds or on timber floors.

 

[Videoshooter]

After thinking it over for a few days, I'm now strongly leaning towards buying a Panasonic FZ200 for my gf to shoot with instead. It'll make things a whole world easier for her having a 24x zoom and AF. 120fps would be a bonus too; I can think of a few nice shots that I could use it for. It'll be nice to have as a multi-purpose camera that I carry with us all the time, taking the total to 3 cameras for the trip (not counting the GoPro's)

I'll wait for the reviews to appear and for some video samples to come out, but I think this option is going to be easiest overall.

Strange that a camcorder has never entered the equation as an option... it's kinda odd that the consumer camcorder world is mostly still trudging around with 1/4" chips, interlaced video, auto-everything, etc, while still cameras (both DSLR and compact/bridge) seem to be making all the advances with large chips, 120fps slow motion, more creative control, better colours, etc.