Who really is the target demographic for the 6D?

[dr croubie]

If it were taken on its own, it should be equal to the 7D.
Give up a bit of sealing, build quality and AF, and in return you get a shiny new FF sensor.

But, the 5D2 exists at a lower price-point, both new and used. The D600 also exists, it's a hell of a lot more camera for really not much more money.

You will buy the 6D over D600 if:
- You have a lot of EF lenses and don't have the cash/inclination to jump ship (like me).

- You have some sort of 'subconscious brand loyalty' and just won't touch Nikon with a barge-pole, for no rational reason (my sister chose between the 550/600/60D, I asked if she was considering Nikon and she just said "ugh" with no qualifier).

- Or you have a rational reason for not touching Nikon (like the 'colour', TS-E or f/1.2 lenses with no F-mount equivalent, DPP being free, etc)


And you will buy the 6D over 5D2 if:
- You're a rebel/otherwise user with a lot of cash invested in SD cards (not me).

- You're a child of FB/twitter who really has no privacy concerns about tracking your every movement and location with GPS, and actually actively want to do so (not me).

- You don't know what you want, and let a salesman tell you that a $2100 camera with a $400 lens will take better photos than an $800 camera with $1700 worth of lenses.

- Above all, you have a phobia of buying a second-hand 5D mk2, even if you can get one in perfect condition (or even new) for a lot less than the 6D new (my mum always had a saying, "never buy second-hand, you're buying someone else's problems", she never believed anyone would sell something if it still worked fine) (not me).

 

[spinworkxroy]

I don't think it will appeal to "first" time buyers who want to turn "pro"..I believe they'd rather go for the 5D3 instead.
I doubt canon wanted the 6D in the "pro" market and compete with the 5D3 anyways.

But yes, it will appeal to 60D owners since the button layout is almost identical and the scroll wheel will be VERY familiar to 60D owners. It's basically a FF 60D if you ask me.

Will I be getting the 6D? Most likely yes, but not entirely for me. It'll make a good backup cam for sure.
Currently I use the 5D3 and i do mainly portraits and it's a hassle changing lenses sometimes and my backup now IS the 60D which i never use anymore as the backup…my wife uses it.

With the 6D, i can sell away all the APS-C lenses and we can share glass now and i already intend to use the 50mm on the 6D and the 85mm on the 5D3 so i don't have to change glass, just change cams.

So yea, i always wanted a cheaper FF that i will want as a backup and that my wife can use as well and i can't afford 2x 5d3...

 

[Peter C Photography]

this past August, they sold their 80 millionth lens, having only passed the 40 millionth in April 2008

I can't get over this stat. This ramp is unreal. Very impressive

 

[ahsanford]

If it were taken on its own, it should be equal to the 7D.
Give up a bit of sealing, build quality and AF, and in return you get a shiny new FF sensor.

But, the 5D2 exists at a lower price-point, both new and used. The D600 also exists, it's a hell of a lot more camera for really not much more money.

You will buy the 6D over D600 if:
- You have a lot of EF lenses and don't have the cash/inclination to jump ship (like me).

- You have some sort of 'subconscious brand loyalty' and just won't touch Nikon with a barge-pole, for no rational reason (my sister chose between the 550/600/60D, I asked if she was considering Nikon and she just said "ugh" with no qualifier).

- Or you have a rational reason for not touching Nikon (like the 'colour', TS-E or f/1.2 lenses with no F-mount equivalent, DPP being free, etc)


And you will buy the 6D over 5D2 if:
- You're a rebel/otherwise user with a lot of cash invested in SD cards (not me).

- You're a child of FB/twitter who really has no privacy concerns about tracking your every movement and location with GPS, and actually actively want to do so (not me).

- You don't know what you want, and let a salesman tell you that a $2100 camera with a $400 lens will take better photos than an $800 camera with $1700 worth of lenses.

- Above all, you have a phobia of buying a second-hand 5D mk2, even if you can get one in perfect condition (or even new) for a lot less than the 6D new (my mum always had a saying, "never buy second-hand, you're buying someone else's problems", she never believed anyone would sell something if it still worked fine) (not me).

Fantastic commentary. Great perspective.

Nowhere in this thread did I consider that a 6D might be someone's first Canon, or first SLR for that matter.

In that case, for once, it truly is a direct Canon v. Nikon 'what is better' argument. (I usually dismiss that nonsense as fanboy hubris, as anyone with at least 3 lenses isn't going to jump ship without a whale of a better product on the other side.)

So in that light -- just for new SLR buyers -- it would appear:

D600's better AF + a few more MP + more feature/creature comforts (headphone jack, pop-up flash, dual cards, etc.) should trump the 6D's GPS + Wifi.... right?

Canon must have some compelling data that says that we gearheads want horsepower and lots of little features, but new SLR users really want convenience. If so, I think Wifi is dead on for that unmet need.

 

[ahsanford]

With the 6D, i can sell away all the APS-C lenses and we can share glass now and i already intend to use the 50mm on the 6D and the 85mm on the 5D3 so i don't have to change glass, just change cams.

+1. Another good comment. If your backup body is APS-C, you very well may have nontrivial EF-S glass, possibly the 17-55 or 10-22, which are not cheap investments. Moving entirely to FF frees up $$$ by selling glass.

Again, never thought of that. Great stuff.

 

[DB]

this past August, they sold their 80 millionth lens, having only passed the 40 millionth in April 2008

I can't get over this stat. This ramp is unreal. Very impressive

The recent exponential growth is similar for DSLR bodies as well, with projections of 18 to 20 million interchangeable lens cameras to be sold during 2012, with another 100 million fixed-lens digital cameras (compacts etc.) also expected to be sold. Notwithstanding all of these mega numbers, of the 7 billion inhabitants of planet Earth, probably only 1-in-20 people own a serious camera ( < 5% and by serious I'm including basic Rebels like Canon's EOS 1100D and higher spec DSLR's) as distinct from camera-phones. So there still exists tremendous growth potential.

 

[SJTstudios]

The 6d is an introduction to full frame for enthusiasts. people with a simple rebel who like portrait and landscapes can get simple features. You get good iso performance and full frame. You shouldn't need fast shutter speed or "the best focusing if you are going full frame. If so, you should go for a 1dx or 5d iii. It also gives them a chance to try wifi and gps without spending the money. This will get people buying either the 7d or the 6d. Then they will upgrade to the 5d iii or the 1dx, or the new 3d at a later time. Then they will by the wifi or gps accessories.

But, canon is pulling the wool over everyone's eyes on this one. When the "3d" comes out, pros will replace the 5d iii with that, and use the 1dx for speed there will be a lot of cheap well maintained used 5d iii is and the price will drop. Everyone with the 6d will try and upgrade. The 6d will be worth less, and amateurs with a rebel will get the 6d, so even if no one buys this now, it will sell eventually. Canon wants to have everyone jump up on full frame, and then spend money on the gps unit, wifi unit, and more l glass.

So in the final analysis, you could get screwed if you buy this, but if you're an enthusiast who wants full frame, is trying to start their own buissiness, or wants to see if this is the industry they want to try and become a pro in, this isn't such a bad camera. Plus, you could always buy a 1d mark ii, mark iii, or 50d to get the speed and focusing.

 

[emag]

I would at least consider it. High ISO and FF image quality is right up this astrophotographer's alley. My modified 40D and vanilla 60D both mate to EF lenses, I've hesitated to buy EF-S mainly because I always expected to eventually go full frame. As an added bonus, both accept EOS Clip filters, something I'd miss with FF. I will, however, wait for a price drop.

 

[Peter C Photography]

this past August, they sold their 80 millionth lens, having only passed the 40 millionth in April 2008

I can't get over this stat. This ramp is unreal. Very impressive

The recent exponential growth is similar for DSLR bodies as well, with projections of 18 to 20 million interchangeable lens cameras to be sold during 2012, with another 100 million fixed-lens digital cameras (compacts etc.) also expected to be sold. Notwithstanding all of these mega numbers, of the 7 billion inhabitants of planet Earth, probably only 1-in-20 people own a serious camera ( < 5% and by serious I'm including basic Rebels like Canon's EOS 1100D and higher spec DSLR's) as distinct from camera-phones. So there still exists tremendous growth potential.

Unreal but I believe it. Shift to digital has made photography so much more accessible for so many and I'm sure that feeling of accessibility will only increase as technology continues to advance. Hopefully the ability to sell more and more high end products will mean that more companies like Canon will be dumping more and more into R&D to race ahead of the competition and we'll all reap the benefits (at a price of course).

 

[ahsanford]

My modified 40D and vanilla 60D both mate to EF lenses, I've hesitated to buy EF-S mainly because I always expected to eventually go full frame.

Oh snap, I didn't think of that, either.

Other than the very small sliver of higher-end users that prefer APS-C for what they do (see my prior comments on birders and sports guys), won't the folks more likely to buy higher end glass also be the folks likely to go FF? Ergo, is the 6D the beginning of the end for relatively high-end EF-S glass like the EF-S 17-55 F/2.8 IS or the EF-S 10-22?

 

[ronderick]

Other than the very small sliver of higher-end users that prefer APS-C for what they do (see my prior comments on birders and sports guys), won't the folks more likely to buy higher end glass also be the folks likely to go FF? Ergo, is the 6D the beginning of the end for relatively high-end EF-S glass like the EF-S 17-55 F/2.8 IS or the EF-S 10-22?

That's a pretty hard question to answer, but I think the importance of the 6D would be that it will be the point for Canon's to show hands on its final stance for APS-C bodies/lenses.

With the introduction of the 6D, entry level FF under 2,000 is now a viable market. It will be interesting to see if Canon continues with manufacturing Rebel/XXD for the casual users who wants a DSLR body (which means the EF-S will continue to prosper) or whether they'll try to "shift" this market into the EOS M world (meaning goodbye EF-S, hello EF-M mounts).

My bet would be that EF-M would emerge as the winner, since the EOS-M already offers mount adapters for the bigger lenses (so those with investment in EF-S lenses could still use them) and includes the same APS-C sensors.

Now, Canon seems confident enough they can produce EF-M lenses that are way smaller than their EF-S cousins but still offers the same quality (such as the EF-S 18-55 f3.5-5.6 IS II). Whether they can make a smaller version of the top EF-S lens, it still remains to be seen.

By the time they produce the EF-M 10-22, it'll probably be clear to everyone that the days of EF-S lenses is coming to a close.

 

[daniela]

Isn't obvious? Its intended to fall between the 7D and the 5D. Its a upgrade for the 60D users or even 7D owners. Its a low cost entry level FF.
Wealthy buyers will get a M9, they don't go for low end models.

Fair, but a number of 7D users choose it not because they can't afford FF, but because they want the best APS-C SLR they can buy:

1) They won't have to lug as large/expensive of a lens for a given target, or if they want their long glass to go 1.6x longer, it can.
2) They want a working AF system! The 7D AF is widely considered better than the 5D2 (and by extension, one would think this new 6D as well).
3) Is there another recent 8 FPS Canon DSLR under $2k? I'm not aware of one.
4) For some folks, the IQ that FF brings is secondary to just getting the shot.

Birders and sports guys are awfully fond of their 7D cameras from what I'm told. This shouldn't get them flipping over to FF, IMHO, as that may be the last thing they want to do.

Agree to that

 

[brianleighty]

.
I don't know who it's for, but I sure know who it is NOT for.

This was not designed to appeal to photographers. This is for people who want to take a few pictures once in a while.

And the ultra-dark capable AF is because once buyers realize what the have they will only use it at night when there is not as much chance of being embarrassed.

I'm sure I could take some great pictures with this camera. Just like I do with my 5d mark ii. There'll be plenty of PHOTOGRAPHERS taking great pictures with this camera.

 

[Fishnose]

Fair, but a number of 7D users choose it not because they can't afford FF, but because they want the best APS-C SLR they can buy

May have been true 3 years ago (but probably not) - the 7D is old technology now. Almost stone age.
Nikon D7000 and Pentax K5 are waaaay ahead.

 

[Ewinter]

It's aimed at people like me.
It could be aimed at people who are just starting out a photography career as a pro.
For example; I have one camera, the 7d.
Currently, it's in repair.
No camera= no money. I'm looking to upgrade, the 7d iq in studio is not so good. My choices run to:
a) sell the 7d and get a 5dIII. If that's in for repair, end up with no camera and no money again.
Also, I can't get CPS with only one body.
b) get a 5dII, have less IQ from an ISO perspective, and then pay more £££ for the WiFi grip, but qualify for CPS and have a backup camera
c) get a 6d. Wifi's built in; another extra I don't have to buy. It's DIGIC 5+, which means better ISO performance. It'll nicely complement my 7d for when I need to use two cameras. I'll have a backup, and support for wireless flash if I need it.
I'm betting I'll qualify for CPS with a 6d, too, and all the EF glass I stocked up on will behave like it was really designed to.

I'd be mad to get a 5dII, or even a 5dIII.

 

[netsuso]

Although many of you have complained about this new Canon DSLR model, I will explain my point of view, as I could be a great example of the 6D target:

- I come from a 550d (T2i) and I'd like to switch to full frame but without spending too much money, so Canon 6D seems like a reasonable option

- I don't give a shit about the number and type of AF points. I almost exclusively use the center point right now, so having 9, 11, 39, or 61 AF points makes no difference to me. I understand they are very important for some type of photography, but for me one AF point is enough for 99.5% of my photos (and please, that doesn't mean I use my camera as a point and shoot, and I never use auto modes, maybe I'm not an "enthusiast" as some people here have described them, but I am not stupid)

- I _love_ that Canon 6d uses SD cards. I own plenty SD cards from plenty of devices (not only cameras), while my most recent CF card is 256 MB and 9 years old...

- 20 Mp is more than enough for me. I would have liked 22 Mp so 1080p video could be resized from the sensor size with a /3 factor, but anyway 22-24 Mp is something I don't need in my photos.

- We are still pending of some decent reviews, but on paper Canon 6d is much better than D600 for low light photography, both for high ISO and -3 EV AF. And 70% of my photos are indoor, so this is a strong reason for me to prefer 6d over D600

- What I would have liked? Pop-up flash and 100% viewfinder coverage, but no camera is perfect... I can live without that.

- What else I don't bother about? GPS and Wifi, although my mind is changing after seeing the Smartphone remote controller for 6d... I will certainly make use of it

So, am I the perfect buyer? Not yet... I think $2100 (which will be absurdly translated to 2100-2200€ in Europe) is still too much, but I'm assuming a price of $1700-1800 in a few months, and I can wait for that

 

[DB]

The Canon 6D is available to order for early-December delivery in Ireland for €2199 (approx. $2880), which is still 2x the price of a T4i/650D and almost 3x the cost of a T3i/600D, so it is a bit of a financial stretch for a Rebel owner

 

[psolberg]

no idea who this camera is for. neither do most people
http://www.theverge.com/2012/9/17/3346366/canon-6d-video-pictures-preview/in/3109719

 

[Waterloo]

I think it was intended for the Rebel upgraders. Problem is all the Rebel owners I know (and some with 7Ds) wouldn't know the difference between a full frame camera and a crop camera if it bit them in the a$$.

 

[pdirestajr]

I'm really tired if the "introduction to" and "upgrade to" full frame comments.

It should be "RETURN TO" full frame!!!

I have an EOS Rebel G fully plastic camera with 3 focus points that is "full frame".

The 6D will just be the most affordable Canon 35mm digital camera.

Why is this considered some type of promise land in photography?

I shoot with all different types of cameras, and the ironic part is I actually use my 7D for the majority of the "professional" work.