A Roadmap: Odds & Ends [CR1-CR2]
From Facebook, E-Mail & [NL]
Received some information that’s new and matches some recent NL information.
More of the same stuff really.
7D Design Goals
The Lord of Darkness
- Speed (Apparently this may have the highest FPS of any DSLR ever)
- Dual Processors and Card Slots
- HD Video
- Articulating Screen
- Pro Style AF System
- Much Better LiveView Autofocus
- Noise Control
- Increased Dynamic Range
Rebel T1
This should be released alongside the 7D next week. Basically an XSi with a movie mode (720p tops).
60D & 1D4
The 60D will be moved back to a 18 month product cycle and will be released with a 1D4 upgrade in February. The winter Olympics aren’t as big of a deal as the World Cup is. If it was the summer games, different story. There’s no rush to get a 1D4 to the market.
60D may see a megapixel decrease. There will be new emphasis on image quality, noise control and dynamic range.
70-200 f/2.8L IS II
The perfect mate to a new speed demon camera. I’m told to expect it. I don’t have CR3 information on it yet.
As I said, this is more of the same information told in a different way from the last few weeks.
Big White Lenses
I’m also told to expect 2 of the big white lenses to get a redo along with the 1D Mark IV/4. The 500 and 600 are deemed the most likely by at least a couple of sources.
L Primes
I haven’t received any confirmation that the 135L is indeed being replaced. Most of my information I have about L prime updates dates back a fair ways. The 35L II to appear alongside a new 1Ds Mark IV? That’s still all we have at the moment.
cr
August 26th, 2009 at 3:56 pm
Ummmmm….That would be a great 7D, but it somewhat eclipses the 5DmkII right? That would make the choice between the two a little hard for me anyway. I would go for the 5DmkII most likely since I hate hate hate hate hate tilting screens. These are for 10 year olds, not semi-pros.
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David Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
What a great combination! This would be exactly what Canon needs to complement the 5D2. Eclipsing the 5D2 would depend on a photographers priorities. Obviously we can expect Canon to make advances in video given the 5D2 is first generation. I hope this rumor is true.
ps…for video, the swivel screen is awesome. Who shoots video looking through the EVF and not the flip out LCD on a camcorder? No one.
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theskunk Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
It would be nice to have it all in a 3D next generation and I hope they do that, but in the meantime a 5D2/7D pairing would be rather awesome, if expensive and less convenient.
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Anonymous Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 8:57 pm
I disagree, I tried shooting birds in flight on my 5d2 thru the LCD & it’s near impossible 2 get it without substantial shake, we b much more stable via the viewfinder, besides, pro who shoot with true video cams use the viewfinder not the LCD, I guess ALL those who u refer shoot video r amateurs :)
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Ted Reply:
August 27th, 2009 at 3:59 am
“Who shoots video looking through the EVF and not the flip out LCD on a camcorder?”
I do, particularly outdoors on a bright day. Of course, I use the flip out screen a lot, too.
On a stills camera, I like the convenience of the flip out screen on my PowerShot S3 IS. It’s also easy to protect: just flip it over and close it backwards. However, the S3 screen is not usable in daylight and even the EVF is almost unusable in bright sunlight.
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Gusto Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
It will NOT eclipse the 5D2 if it is not FF and ‘only’ has 12 MP. The lower pixel density and low pixel count render the camera less suitable for landscape photography.
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David Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
It wont eclipse the 5D2 even if its FF 12 MP, the 5D2 would be double the resolution.
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TheJBJ Reply:
August 27th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
True, it would need to be full frame to “eclipse” the 5D2. But the 12MP with a fast frame rate on a FF camera is more useful to a lot of people than a 20+ MP camera. The detail is nice, but it’s really useful if you miss a sport shot or wildlife image. I think a big thing this camera would need to focus on would be to get the shutter noise to be less distracting than the 5DmkII
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Steve Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
How could you “hate hate hate tilting screens”?
Have you ever put your camera on the ground, or put over your head on a tripod. Nobody says you need to tilt the screen, but being able to is a real help some times.
I think you feelings are more due to the fact that you are used to them only on P&S cameras. It’s nothing more than an additional ability really, and when viewed from that perspective, it’s kind of a no-brainier of a nice feature.
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Ted Reply:
August 27th, 2009 at 4:02 am
The DPR review of the Sony A380 (Airbus should sue) commented that the articulating screen is a hindrance because it protrudes too much and makes it hard to use the horrible viewfinder (which might be a good thing). So, I suppose there are good and bad ways of implementing these screens.
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TheBJJ Reply:
August 27th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
I think the biggest problem is that Tilt LCD’s tend to be smaller and of less quality than fixed ones. In addition, they take up more room and run the chance of being snapped off. Of course mine would never be snapped off since I would never tilt it. Also, I place my camera above and below my head all the time. I think after you’ve owned a camera for a few days you sould be able to tell where you’re shooting without having to see the screen. The only plus for me is that the tilt screen would be good if I did a lot of manual focusing. Although, who manually focuses when they hold the camera over their heads? (I’m sure 200 people will be able to reply to that with how they always manually focus with a tilt screen) It’s just a matter of preference, but I look at tilt screens and think:”cheap”. I’m sure there are people that love them, but I would rather have a choice to get it with or without the option.
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Anonymous Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 7:03 pm
Have you ever shot video? Tilt screens are a necessity.
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TheBJJ Reply:
August 27th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
No they are not.
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poser Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 8:33 pm
Semi-pros are posers, plain old average joes, who are afraid of things like in-built flash and video and articulating screens since they know the only thing they have is their so-called image and not their images….
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Poser Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 10:36 pm
I’m a poser! well, I like to think of myself as a hobbyist. I don’t like my built in flash, it’s just not that useful.
I hesitate buying a camera like the 5D2 because my skills aren’t that great and don’t want people like you to judge me!
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the real poser Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 11:49 pm
it’s the posers who do the judging and laugh at how silly anyone who uses an articulating screen, or video, or built-in flash in emergency, etc. looks. The real deal don’t worry about how they look or laugh at people’s cams….
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TheJBJ Reply:
August 27th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
Good point, I don’t like the built in flash, but I wouldn’t avoid buying a camera because of it. The problem with the Tilt Screen is that it IS a reason to avoid the camera since I won’t use it and it takes away from the way I would use the camera. I just don’t like the trade off.
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August 26th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Hmmm, sounds expensive :( Awesome, but expensive…
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August 26th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
Well, if the 7D turns out to be a 1.6 crop then I’m not sure Canon is coming out with anything I need to buy this round.
I was hoping for a 16mp FF, 7 FPS, pro AF, Full weather seals, Dual Card, Small body, Optional wireless grip, HD video 25p, 30p, integrated flash commander, electronic grids in VF, 100 VF.
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DaveS Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
And if the Spring 2010 releases are the 60D and 1D4, then again nothing for me, and that takes me to Fall 2010.
Oh well, I wonder how many FPS the Nikon D700x 24mp camera will have?
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Anonymous Reply:
August 27th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
just got a T1i cuz i couldnt wait any longer for the 60D so im gonna flip it in febuary and upgrade
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DaveS Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
I should note I am interested in the 35 1.4 II and 135 2.0 II but i want them to be matched to a FF small body that has much better AF than the 5D2
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Anonymous Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
im with you for the small ff-body
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theskunk Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 8:36 pm
that would be awesome, hopefully they slow the 7D down a little and don’t increase the MP on the 5D2 and make a 3D in 2 years. If they keep split lines it may be years before we ever get a small body, FF with speed from canon, that would be a shame, but in the meantime the 7D sounds pretty intriguing.
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GeorgeML Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
These are fabulous specs.
Do you think they belong to a camera with the name 7D?
Seems more like 1Ds-compact to me.
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theskunk Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 8:36 pm
The best buy rumor, right about every other last thing, even price to within 20% had the 7D pegged at 2699….
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Gusto Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
I hope it is NOT FF.
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Yep Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
+1
ditto
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Anonymous Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
Why? dude?
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David Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
Some people mistakingly believe crop sensors produce better pictures than FF, and are more than willing to lose MP for the illusion of more reach while permanently wiping out a significant portion of your field of view on wide angle lenses. Go figure.
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God Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
People like Crop because they dont want to lose that 1.6 or 1.3 factor with their lenses therefore they would have to buy longer lenses. for birds and sports.
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David Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
It’s a trade off. You dont get something for nothing. 21 MP Ff vs. 10 MP 1.3 crop? Gimme a break. You can crop like crazy in post and still have a higher resolution photo from the 21 MP FF.
Aps-C 1.6 has dedicated lenses so at least you regain the wide angle.
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Ted Reply:
August 27th, 2009 at 4:21 am
People like crop cameras because they are cheap. I didn’t buy one because of its “reach”, I bought one (a 40D) because it was less than one third of the price of a 5D and still took much better photos than any compact camera.
For that much less money, I got a similar resolution, a much faster camera, a better screen, a built-in flash, a direct print button, and autofocus that only works if the subject is red. (I’m going to return the Monday-morning POS to Canon for a third time next week.) The price difference paid for an EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS.
At the same pixel density, crop and FF cameras have the same “reach”. Yet if Canon brought out a FF camera with 38MP–the same pixel density as a 15MP 50D–a lot of people would consider them crazy for compromising the image quality so much (given today’s technology). If 38MP FF is a stupid compromise of image quality, then so is 15MP APS-C. If 15MP APS-C is good for “reach”, then so is 38MP FF.
However, the 15MP APS-C is an easier sell. Users are more willing to compromise because, under good conditions, it strikes a balance between image quality, cost and (for some) “reach”. For those who want an improvement in image quality and who have more money to spend, then FF becomes an option. It improves image quality and trades “reach” for “width”. It’s aimed at a different market.
So, while the “reach” of a crop body is mostly an illusion that is gained at the expense of image quality, you get a big discount on the price to make up for that loss.
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Isurus Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 8:14 pm
Another reason is how far the focus points are spread out over the frame. The focus points on FF cameras are relatively crammed in the center of the frame.
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Gusto Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
“Some people mistakingly believe crop sensors produce better pictures than FF”
No one said anything about crop sensors producing better pictures than FF. Also, unless one needs to print huge, one has no need for megapixels as well.
As for dynamic range at low ISO, ALL Canon cameras are inferior to their Nikon counterparts. Even the FF 5D2 is inferior to the el cheapo APS-C Nikon D5000.
“wiping out a significant portion of your field of view on wide angle lenses”
As far as zoom lenses are concerned, both EF 16-35 f/2.8L and EF 17-40 /4L do NOT offer wider angle of view on FF than EF-S 10-22 on APS-C.
You’ll need to go to third party zoom lenses (Sigma 12-24 or Nikon 14-24 f/2.8) to gain that FF advantage.
Go figure.
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David Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
You are smoking crack if you think the D5000 is better than the 5D2. You can nit pick specs all you want but that’s a joke in reality.
10mm on APS-C IS 16mm equivelent FF. But there’s nothing like the 14mm L for APS-C.
Anyway, I wasn’t clear. My comments were directed to APS-H, not APS-C.
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Gusto Reply:
August 27th, 2009 at 1:02 am
Well, go take a serious good look at DXOMark.
Do a 1 to 1 comparison of the Nikon D5000 and Canon 5D2.
The D5000/D90/D300s sensor reaches a max of 12 stops at low ISO while the 5D2 only manages 11 stops.
As for the Canon 14 mm prime lens for FF, think again. It’s a darn expensive prime lens whose optical quality is nowhere near the Nikon 14-24 zoom lens. Almost all the professional landscape photographers are fitting their FF Canon lenses with the Nikon ultrawide zoom lens. No one cares about the 14 mm prime.
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Gusto Reply:
August 27th, 2009 at 1:04 am
Hope this link works:
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Image-Quality-Database/Compare-cameras/%28appareil1%29/305%7C0/%28appareil2%29/320%7C0/%28onglet%29/0/%28brand%29/Canon/%28brand2%29/Nikon
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August 26th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
Awesomeeeeee….
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August 26th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
Hmm, why does some of the feature sounds like a dream list?
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Gusto Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
Yes, particularly the articulating screen bit.
Unless this camera is aimed squarely at journalists…
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August 26th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
1.6 crop…who would pay as much as for a 5D MkII then? Anyone
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emtgreg Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
Dual Digic IV’s + 1.6 could very well = 15-20fps. Also, if they have been working on lower mp + higher iso iq, who the eff cares if it is a crop or not? It makes the camera more saleable, ie lower cost, and it wont piss off the 5dii owners by being ff…
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Eric W. Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
This is exactly what I want as a pair to my 5D2. A very fast APS-C camera.
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David Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
Me too!
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theskunk Reply:
August 27th, 2009 at 1:30 am
me a little bit
Although, actually I’d rather spend 5D2+7D price – some money = 3D and get it all in a single package though myself, a FF, 21MP, 6.5fps, with the AF system of this new camera.
aside from maybe 6fps vs 12fps it would seemingly be a better camera, cost somewhat noticeably less in total, only need to carry one thing around with you.
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Eric W. Reply:
August 27th, 2009 at 4:01 am
For the vast majority of general shooting, I’d say you’re correct, but it doesn’t hurt to own two bodies for certain types of shooting either. Basically when you’d like to have two lens ready to fire at any given time, or when you simply can’t afford for your one (and only) camera to fail. Weddings come to mind first, but there are obviously others.
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Anonymous Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
Yes, here, here!!!!
With 1.6x it would be my wishlist.
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Gusto Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
+1
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August 26th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
Now this timeline and goal list makes sense.
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August 26th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
Better Live View AF. Fastest DSLR ever.
Sounds like a pellicle mirror to me! That would allow standard DSLR autofocus during Live View and HD video recording, and also allow the frame rate to get up to the 10+ FPS range.
I’m hoping.
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Anonymous Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
pelicule is indeed a decent thing. but ff is imo more important
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Anonymous Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
canon’s cleared patent of jan or so this year past was a “reverse” pellicle mirror that allowed for switching the mirror “down” to allow for liveview + TTL-SIR AF at the same time.
essentially in that mode .. you can shoot as fast as your sensor can transfer the data to DIGIC. the speed is only limited by the speed of the image processing.
this is even faster or could be faster than the EOS-1 pellicle mirror model, because with that, there was still a mechanical movement of the secondary mirror ..
with this design, nothing mechanically moves except the shutter.
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theskunk Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 8:37 pm
could be
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August 26th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
all of that sounds very good to me.
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August 26th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
It seems like Canon is developing a new Prosumer level, between 50D and 5D mkii with 1.3 crop sensors (a flavor Nikon hasn’t got yet)… could be an interesting solution for those who like telephoto pictures without spending a huge amount of money on those big white L’s; especially if the AF will focus down to f 8 (like the 1D’s), in which case we could use the 1.4x teleconverter and still get autofocus ability on a f5.6 lens.
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August 26th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
articulating screen on a high end dslr sounds just so crappy. Don`t make this mistake canon!
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GeorgeML Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 5:53 pm
+1
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Gusto Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
NOT if it’s designed for journalists
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August 26th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
Makes no sense at all to me. The 1D MK II is now priced close to $3,000 at B&H (when you use Microsoft cashback), prices are dropping, obviously to clear out inventory quickly. This likely means a replacement is imminent.
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Ed Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
Sorry, 1D mk III, a typo.
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David Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 7:05 pm
Yep Canon can’t give them away. None of these APS-H lovers we hear around here are buying them that’s for sure.
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Anonymous Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
actually that would make sense if the 7D is a “baby” 1D .. canon wouldn’t want to necessarily any more than normal :p .. purchasers of a 1D series camera with a new model potentially just as good / faster / better than the 1D series .. this way at least .. there isn’t that significant ripoff occuring when the 7D is introduced as more or less a baby 1D.
You know .. what Nikon should have done with the D2Xs when the D300 was announced?
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August 26th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
Sorry if this sounds stupid but..
Im not into sports… neither do I shoot fast birds or leopards.
I shoot portaits, nice looking photographs for Photoshop editing.
Why do I need fast FPS shooting?
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Anonymous Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
you don’t, you also probably won’t need this camera…
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Patrik Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
Well, that was my point.. :)
Why this news came as a non pleasant surprise after long time waiting.
The 5dmk2 is too expensive for me.
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Er Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
Pick up a used 5Dmk1..
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Eric W. Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
What kind of camera was it you were waiting for? I’m not asking sarcastically but honestly. It sounds like you don’t need a camera for fast motion or time critical focusing, which means waiting for the 60D wouldn’t make sense either. If the 5D2 is out of your range, than any new 1Ds would be as well. For that matter, it’s likely that no matter what the 7D turns into, it’s price regardless will be out of your range as well.
I’m trying to find a solution that would be the camera you were waiting for, but I keep coming back to the 5D2. I know it might be expensive, but if you’re looking for a camera that you simply set up pointed toward a still subject, have plenty of time to focus, and want a GREAT image from, then there’s really no avoiding the 5D2 and no need to wait for another camera. Well, perhaps there’s always some likelihood that Canon would surprise us with a really cheap, high quality, smaller FF, but the chances of that in face of the 5D2 seem really, really slim. Every camera will always give up something for perks in another area. If you’re not willing to trade image quality for speed, you might be looking at trading build quality for price. Is that basically what you’re waiting for? I guess it really shouldn’t matter to me, but I’m just kind of curious. :)
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Patrik Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
Allright, cards on the table
I already own a Nikon d80, Its allright, I dont like the focusing but it takes good pics.
What I really need is a camera for video performance since Im into video & filmmaking.
Im also into still photography, portraits etc. Mainly high quality stills for Photoshop editing.
I know, this sounds like the 5Dmk2, well, it is a perfect camera for me, its just too expensive.
Im finding it really hard too get my hands on a 500D from a bigger Nikon D80. 500D is nice with its sensor and video but it has no external mic input for example. I need that.
So… a 60D, a bigger and slightly better camera than 500D with some new videostuff like external mic input would be nice and just perfect. Its also in the OK price mark :)
60D would be perfect.
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Anonymous Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
If we get a 60D announcement next week you’ll be in heaven. If not, well, Feb 2010 is…just…6 long months away.
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Gusto Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Nikon D90
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Patrik Reply:
August 27th, 2009 at 2:15 am
The D90 is not an option since it got horrible jelly effects with camera movement. Im sad to say.
Nikon do one thing right though, 24p!
30p from canon is like, “well, we cant give you everything u want!”
This is just for keeping distance from their dedicated video cameras.
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Eric W. Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 6:42 pm
Ah, gotcha. Yeah, you’d probably see the usual slight image upgrades, but if video is your sticking point, I could certainly see why the 60D would be worth waiting for in your case. Thanks.
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Patrik Reply:
August 27th, 2009 at 2:16 am
Well see :)
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Bob Howland Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
May I suggest a used 5D. It’s a great portrait camera, assuming 12.8MP is enough.
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Patrik Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
That has been an option but since the introduction of video in new still cameras, the old 5D doesnt do it for me pricewise.
Im sad to say really, I love the old 5D!
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Christian Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
get a 5DII then
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Anonymous Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
I have the same requirements as you. But, I am looking for very high resolution landscapes with a high quality lens. And since none of the rumors are of a 25MP-30MP sensor right now that would still sell for $2500, so I think I’m safe getting the 5D Mark 2 and not being obsolete in a week.
And unless I am shooting Indy cars or was getting paid for sports photography, I’m not sure I would ever use 6+ FPS. I would worry about running out of memory card space actually.
But, they don’t need to make one camera that works for everyone. Canon should target different groups with different cameras.
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Anonymous Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 5:44 pm
I know a large format printer and he will tell you that 10MP is all you need for HUGE prints. I’m always interested in knowing why someone thinks they need a ton of pixels, so why do you need (or want) 25-30MP?
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John.B Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
So you can make “HUGE prints” from a cropped image?
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Joe Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
It really depends on the viewing distance.
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Anonymous Reply:
August 27th, 2009 at 11:09 am
So you are not good enough at in camera framing to the point that you need 30MP so you can throw out 2/3s of your image and still have the necessary 10MP for huge prints. I get you now…
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Carey Photography Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
You know that you’ll probably be able to set it to shoot one frame at a time. And a more sophisticated autofocus is always better, no matter what you’re shooting. I don’t see why the frame rate really matters to you. If it does and you’re on a budget, then I agree with some of the others, get a 5D MkI. Or get the 7D and just shoot one frame at a time, or branch out to other areas of photography; it’s always been my opinion that one really shouldn’t try to specialize and instead just be the best at everything, you get more clientele that way too. But what ever, you’re the one waiting.
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theskunk Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 8:39 pm
get a 5D2 or 5D then? why upset over this?
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August 26th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
- Articulating Screen
- Pro Style AF System
- Much Better LiveView Autofocus
Add Gitzo Explorer to match the Articulating LiveView;
Together with a new Macro Lens!
Sounds Great!
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August 26th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
Your rumor of the “Rebel T1
This should be released alongside the 7D next week. Basically an XSi with a movie mode (720p tops)” Is 6 months too late the T1 exists..helllllooooo?
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adrian Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
ummmm its the T1i not the T1. The T1 doesnt exist yet. hellllloooo?
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WT Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
helllloooo? I think whensly’s point is it doesn’t matter what you call it a rebel with video ALREADY exists (and can’t possibly be selling that well — they’re already unloaded it at Costco!)
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autor Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
T1 will be the 2000D – the lowest, cheapest dslr canon can provide. I guess it will replace the 1000D.
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August 26th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
this is great. I do some video. I just hope this spec are true:
- HD Video
- Articulating Screen
- Pro Style AF System
as for whether 1.6/1.3/ff, doesn’t really matter, maybe more towards 1.3 or ff(but probably not going to be ff anyway)
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Gusto Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 6:14 pm
Canon has designed the camera specifically for someone like you. :)
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August 26th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
sounds like i will have to burry definitely the more affordable FF-dream. canon plz please les us have a consumer ff-body before… (i’ll give you some time..) …2020…
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Canon Guy Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
“plz please” “les” us have a proper education.
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theskunk Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 9:09 pm
buy 5D used
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August 26th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
I need 60D…february??? for my birthday!!! Noooooo!!!! I need it now!!!
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August 26th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
So what would the main differences between the 60d & 7d be?
Btw I’m surprized to see so many people wishing high fps… Do you all shoot sports?
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emtgreg Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
Concerts. High Speed + High ISO + High IQ = win. We have 3 songs to get the shot, thats it.
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Bob Howland Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Do you actually use the camera in continuous shooting mode? I’ve taken 150 shots during 12 minutes in the pits and never done that
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emtgreg Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
Anticipate/Compose, Burst, repeat. I like the continuous shooting mode because it gives me more insurance to capture something interesting once the artist starts to do really show off. I do not abuse it though, composition is still vital :)
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bens Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
Well for some things, usually something moving (fast or slow) you’re just more likely to get the prefect shot if you have 6 or 7 to choose from rather than 3.
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Anonymous Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 8:10 pm
I shoot with an XSi and 3.5 fps does the job. Honestly a 6fps FF good iso consumer body will be fine with me
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theskunk Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 9:11 pm
Do we all shoot sports?
yes
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August 26th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
I dont understand the FPS hype really. (mostly dissapointed)
A 60D with movie skills is my first priority and should be canons too (i think). The 50D in mind is no hit since it got no video.
The 500D is too light & consumer, the 5D too expensive for the most.
Wheres is the perfect camera in between? The 60D but I cant waith for it..
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Gusto Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 6:19 pm
You can always replace your Nikon D80 with D90.
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August 26th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
I think some people might be onto something with a 15-20 fps rate, even if in a cropped mode. It would essentially be like the shutterless 21 fps super-burst mode that the Pentax K20d offered (though the images were rendered by basically using the same line-skipping trick used on today’s DSLR videos).
Now IF you could get that kind of a frame rate in a 3:2 mode that utilized downsampling instead of line-skipping you could probably squeeze out 24 fps in a cropped 16:9 mode. Video/film enthusiasts would go nuts as the quality would be out of this world. It may be limited to short takes since it would take huge amounts of horsepower but a lot of people would easily pay what the 5D II costs for a feature like that. Either the processor would have to be incredibly fast and/or the buffer be enormous to pull it off
Thus the appeal to anyone who wants very high burst modes or unparalleled video (at that price point). Files could be output as either movies or a series of jpegs
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August 26th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
Ah…. what??
The 7D kind of makes sense. Especially if it’s like a super-fast 60D. APS-C with blazing speed and amazing video and maybe better AF might be able to get over $2k.
The T1? An XSi with movie mode? Isn’t that the T1i??? What’s the difference???
60D? — if they want to continue to limp along with the 50D, that’s they’re business.
So, as I stated in an earlier thread, some more near-non releases. The 7D might be nice (of course it would be KILLER with FF), but that’s it. Everything else sounds like a whimper until the 1d.
Of course…who really knows. It’s all CR1 and CR2.
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Eric W. Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
It’s hard to say anything is killer or not killer, since it all depends on what any one individual already owns and wants/needs going forward. In my case, I already have a 5D2 for landscapes and portraits, so I’d really like a fast camera to complement it. Add in that most of the time I need the speed is the time when I need long telephoto shots for sports, and something that’s APS-C starts to looks really nice. So certainly, since I already have a FF uber-MP camera with lackluster AF, something fast with length and great AF is right up my alley. Just my 2 cents on why “killer” is always relative.
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WT Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
I’m not talking killer in person-to-person, but killer in the market. What will make the biggest splash sell most units (or be most profitable) and shine a luster on the rest of the product line.
The D90, for example, really brought respectability back to Nikon, and they’ve been on a role since. Canon needs to get that momentum back.
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August 26th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
“60D may see a megapixel decrease. There will be new emphasis on image quality, noise control and dynamic range.”
That is excellent to hear. I can only hope that it’s true.
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Peter Hauri Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 6:03 pm
So do I.
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Gusto Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
BUT lowering the pixel count will NOT help.
In DXOMark’s comparison between 500D and D5000, they found the former to have nearly the same high ISO performance as the latter.
The issues with Canon sensors lie in (a) non-uniform color sensitivity which leads to chroma noise (b) high electronics noise which compromises the dynamic range at low ISO.
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August 26th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
My wishlist:
720p 1080p, 24,25 and 30 fps
External mic input
1.3 crop sensor (gives it a slight edge over D300s and competition)
Mega pixels, dont care :)
FPS, dont care
Direct Print button
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Carey Photography Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
Hell yeah! An APS-H sized sensor, faster then the D700 and at the same price or close to it, that would blow the D700 out of the water and I’m down.
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Carey Photography Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 9:03 pm
Whoops, ment D300/D300s killer. Not D700, though it might kill that too.
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August 26th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
Wait for the winter release of the D4!!!!!
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August 26th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
Am I the only one that thinks that this has to be a crop sensor announcement? The 50d is now a year old and there is no mid-range camera that does video, making the T1i have more features than the 50d.
This doesn’t make a lot of sense right now, nor does releasing a high-spec ff small body camera that has better features than a 5d, since the 5D is still hard to get (there is still a lot of demand for the 5D, especially compared to the 50d). Moreover, if it was higher spec, it would likely be called a 3D, a 7D implies that it has less features and is less costly than a 5d series model, since a 1D is the highest spec EOS.
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Patrik Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
EXACTLY!
I second that totally.
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Gusto Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
A ‘cheap’ APS-H sensor and low pixel count immediately ‘disqualify’ the camera as a 5D2 competitor.
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August 26th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
For what are the 2 processors? One optimized for video and one for stills?
2 Months ago I bought the 50D and 17-55 2.8 IS and I am happy with it except the horizontal banding in dark areas from ISO 800 up. If they could fix that by a firmware that would be great.
I will not go to full frame until a 24-70 2.8 IS appears to complement a new body. I am really happy with the new lens. So until Canon does not come up with a better general purpose lens and a faster focusing system (so I could chase a kid running) I’ll not upgrade the body.
In the meantime I save up for a 70-200 2.8 IS. If a new one is coming I hope the price for the old one to drop down a bit.
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Christian Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
Why 2 processor?
At higher fps, you can use 2 processor to output images faster. Multi-tasking batch of images.
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Gusto Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
2 processors for high speed video processing
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Fotograf Iasi - Daniel Mihai Condurachi Reply:
August 27th, 2009 at 12:26 am
are we going to see in the future also multicore processors in our cameras?
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August 26th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
There’s no rush to get a 1D4 to the market????
Get the f**k out… I have had my 1D3 for too long now. Any crappy a$$ pocket camera has over 12MP. I am stuck with just 10. WTF!
I for one, want a real pro focus, not a 5D2, 21MP camera 1.3 crop at al least 7fps with a built in grip…
Maybe the 7D will be the answer.
Can’t wait for Sept. 1st!
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August 26th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
sounds too expensive for me!!!
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August 26th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
for video users this would make a great camera. Not ff to protect the 5D Mark 2 photog market, but more advanced for video. Please release it w/24p, articulating screen and full HD out of the HDMI port. Indie filmmakers start the drooling now!
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August 26th, 2009 at 5:54 pm
please dont make me hate you canon. 60D and 7D next week. and while you’re at it why not bring out the new 1d at the same time like all the compacts.
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Anonymous Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 7:38 pm
because canon has NEVER done three cameras at once as far as releases – and definately not in conjunction with a 1 series release.
there is a finite limit to the manufacturing resources of even a canon.
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August 26th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
Prosumer Camera at higher than 11fps? I’ll believe that only when I see it
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Richard Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 7:59 pm
It’s here today – it’s called video. In future cameras you will probably see a plethora of different burst/video modes you can choose from.
Look at how Pentax evolved its video on the K-7, it came from the shutterless 21 fps burst mode from the previous k20d. Pentax mostly just beefed up the processor to do compress the images in real time, added sound, and output it as a movie instead of individual files (ideally you should be able to choose). The k20d’s slower processor would require the camera to stop after about 115 frames, when the buffer would fill up. I can see this idea easily being implemented for a burst mode or a short but very high-quality video mode in the near-future, eventually progressing to real-time modes further down the road as the issues of processing power and sensor heat are resolved.
When consumers start wanting this (and they will, the camera and TV makers will see to that) then the crazy megapixel wars will turn and morph into more of a high-speed/low-light performance war as the still and video cameras start to converge.
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August 26th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
At least, it’s going to get intresting now. While I do my 30D learning curve…6 month is not much time either, for a 60D to come…won’t upgrade anyway. But I feel very happy about any improvement concerning a future update, either a then 7D II or whatever matches my saving scheme.
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August 26th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
Am I the only one who thinks the 7d specs here are bs? They look like the specs for 1dmark4. If cannon releases this how will they sell the mark4? If the 7D is D3 fast with a fully pro AF what’s canon gonna put in the mark4 specs to get sports shooters to buy it. If this 7D comes out, every sports guy with a mark3 is gonna buy it instead of wait for mark4. And as any watcher of camera companies knows they are always loathe to introduce prosumer products that cut the legs off their pro products. This 7D looks like what the mark4 spec should be, and so I really doubt it is for real.
Sorry for any typos. Never post from an iPhone.
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JohnG Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
Smart…I think you probably right.
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Bob Howland Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
Better to have a 1DMkIII owner replacing his/her camera body with a cheaper Canon than having him/her buying a Nikon D700 instead. Hewlett Packard learned that about laser printers a long, long time ago.
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Some guy Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
Fair enough. But then why not release the camera badged as 1DMark4? Why call it 7D at all? After all, if you have the sensor, the cpu’s and the AF, then it requires no R&D to put that them into a pro body and release it as the 1DMark4. If the above specs were true, that’s probably what would happen.
Seriously, that spec list is good enough to release as the 1DMark4 right now. Canon only stands to loose if they release a pro sports camera six months after the this 7D.
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Anonymous Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 7:39 pm
it would explain why canon has been officially dropping the price of the 1 series camera bodies .. that is something they’ve never done before.
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ABC Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 7:40 pm
Canon knows what Apple knows: you don’t worry about competing against yourself…you want to make your own products obsolete or someone else will.
Canon knows that Sony is coming on, and that Nikon still have a few tricks up their sleave, such as the D700s and/or D700x.
As for the 1d4, don’t worry…Canon will be sure to give pros reasons to purchase.
But the main goal is to make each release as good as possible for the price range…if you do that you can be assured you will succeed in the market place.
Aside from that, Canon also knows there is more money to be made in this prosumer market than the very high end for the pros. I bet Canon has made far more money from the 5dii than the 1d3.
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Some guy Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
There is a difference between making a 3 year old or even a 1 year old camera obsolete. This is making a camera obsolete before perhaps six months before it is even released, which I think even the Apple folks would advise against.
The whole Canon world has been screaming for AF improvements, do you really think they mean to unveil their new flagship AF on a prosumer body?
Perhaps you are right, but I am no convinced. The only way I have been able to figure out that this makes sense, is that the 7D is a cropped chip and the 1D4 will be the same pixel density/AF/FPS but full frame. That would be gambling that there is still a market for the 1D4 when it comes out, but at least it would protect the niches for each camera body. And no matter what Canon or Nikon or Sony or anyone else does, the one thing I guarantee is that they attempt to protect those niches. Competing against yourself is always a losing proposition.
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ABC Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 8:03 pm
At worst, better for Canon to sell a boatload of 7d’s than a relative few extra 1d4’s. Far more money in that.
But the type of people who would buy a 1d4 will still buy anyway…they may use the 7d as a second camera. The 1d4 will have better weatherproofing, a bigger sensor, etc., not to mention some other new goodies that we do not imagine.
As for the AF system, why not perfect it on your prosumer device before releasing it for the pro’s when they are gearing up for the World Cup?
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Some guy Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 8:10 pm
I hope you’re right. If so I will buy one of the 7D’s so fast it will make me motion sick.
“As for the AF system, why not perfect it on your prosumer device before releasing it for the pro’s when they are gearing up for the World Cup?”
Does this sound like Canon to you? It doesn’t sound like Canon to me. Also, isn’t this rumor saying that the world cup is far enough away that they have time to hold 1D4’s release?
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ABC Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 8:32 pm
When you are buying the 7d “so fast” someone else with a 7d can take an image because the camera will be fast enough to capture that:)
As for the 1d4 and the world cup, that’s my point: there’s enough time for canon to release the new AF in the 7d, and perfect it for the 1d4 release and the world cup.
There’s a lot riding on making sure the 1d4 is perfect for the world cup…better to perfect new features on the 7d. Keep in mind the 7d will also be in a lot more hands due to its lower pricepoint and market positioning…more testers.
As for Canon…well, I’m not in their heads…but I would imagine the success of the 5dii has given them cause to rethink a lot of assumptions.
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Nogginthenog Reply:
August 27th, 2009 at 3:57 am
“As for the AF system, why not perfect it on your prosumer device before releasing it for the pro’s when they are gearing up for the World Cup?”
Does this sound like Canon to you? It doesn’t sound like Canon to me. Also, isn’t this rumor saying that the world cup is far enough away that they have time to hold 1D4’s release?
———
Yes, it sounds like Canon.
The did the exact same thing with the EOS3 and the Eos 1V film cameras.
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Some guy Reply:
August 28th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
And yet, the news today says you are wrong.
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Mark Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 8:40 pm
And add to that how canon is known to cripple their products to protect their high end line
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Aussie Sports Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 11:13 pm
Look on the bright side – a new AF system with Canon’s recent track record. I for one am a little shy of mortgaging the business to get the 1D Mk4 to find out it doesn’t work as expected. Happy to buy the 7D, when/if it comes out. Will be keener still to buy the 1D mk4, if the 7D is everything it promises to be. At the end of the day the pro body spec’s and longevity suit my needs better.
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August 26th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
this sounds awesome actually and like a really smart placement of the camera. I’m hoping its solidly aimed at indie filmmakers with 24/25p, swivel screen (great for filmmaking), full HD hdmi out (hence the dual digics), and a crop sensor which is actually better for filmmaking than FF. A crop sensor has the same depth of field characteristics as a 35mm motion film camera or RED. Honestly there is often TOO MUCH depth of field on the 5D and it can be hard to opt out of since you may need to shoot wide open because of the light. As long as the sensor has the same size photosites and hence similar awesome low-light capabilities of the 5D mk2, this sounds like they will clean up in the video market. Making it crop is smart because it won’t cannibalize 5d sales who are primarily photographers and going with a smaller sensor likely makes the engineering feats easier to hurdle to do all the things sorely lacking with 5d video. Fingers crossed… so glad I didn’t get a 5d….
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Some guy Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
All of these video DSLR’s have a LONG WAY to go before they really compete with the RED. Simply put, the lenses made for DSLR are weaker than the lenses made for motion picture. Youir milage may very, but the pro DP’s I know still cringe at the thought of shooting with the F-mount RED camera. Remember a movie screen is a bilboard sized blow up, and critical focus becomes all consuming at that size.
Most films are shot with a rented camera, for very good reasons (service, completion bond). If you’re willing to spend $1500/week on a rental, then you probably understand what having a motion picture capable camera means, and purchasing a 7D to shoot your movie seems like more trouble than it’s worth. So releasing a DSLR and expecting the film community to adopt it is far fetched. You’ll really be talking only about extreme mirco-budget film making for the next few years. That would be a great market, but that’s not what people think of when they think of film making.
You’ll know that Canon and Nikon are serious about film when they release a Arri PL mount adapter, so you can rent a serious feature film lens kit for your DSLR movie shoot.
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CPS 08 Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 8:59 pm
Well paired with the Red Rock Micro rail it’s not a bad film camera. Its not a super 16 but its still better than shooting with a Canon or Sony camcorder. If it could shoot at a slightly higher resolution than 1080p that would be great. This way you can have a safety margin.
I think its got a ways to go to catch up with Red but to get a RED camera and the necessary add-ons to make it compete with an Arri you’re still talking high 5-figures REALISTICALLY.
Sure the body itself is cheap but what about everyuthing else you’d need including the film crew it takes to run an Arri and light a scene correctly? Hehe, just me ranting away. I had a bad day at work.
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Lindsay Reply:
August 26th, 2009 at 10:07 pm
How many indie film makers spend $1500/wk on equipment hire?
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Some guy Reply:
August 27th, 2009 at 11:41 am
All of them.
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August 26th, 2009 at 8:04 pm
1st september pls i believe in canon!
i’ll beg
i’ll kneel
!
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August 26th, 2009 at 8:05 pm
If these specs are true, I’ll place a pre-order the day it is listed on B&H or Adorama.
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August 26th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
Now that’s what I want to hear. If its a $1800 camera body then I’ll definitely think about getting it. I can’t quite swing another $2700 body even if its a write off.
The specs thought vague, seem impressive.
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August 26th, 2009 at 9:01 pm
At this point I can’t see the 7D being full frame. If it is it would cannibalize the 5D Mark II and Canon is too smart to do that.
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August 26th, 2009 at 9:01 pm
Very good specs…
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August 26th, 2009 at 10:44 pm
[...] posted here: A Roadmap: Odds & Ends [CR1-CR2] | Canon Rumors Tagged as: articulating, august-26th, canon-lenses, carey-photography, digital-camera, Display, [...]
August 27th, 2009 at 12:17 am
If there is really no 60D next week and the 7D is as good (and consequently as expensive) as this spec list suggests, than I am in dire need of finding a different christmas present for myself. :(
I really would have liked to move to something more serious (i.e. xxD-style but NOT the 50D) soon, but I am not (yet?) willing to shell out the 2700$ (and with Canon’s usual “let’s rip of the stupid europeans” currency conversion of 1$ = 1€ this is just too much) for a new camera body.
Too bad. I seriously hope that we get both 60D and 7D, and that 60D is priced maybe a tad above the 50D at its introduction, but still within a reasonable range (<<1500€).
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August 27th, 2009 at 3:22 am
the canon T1 is not a camera :-)
it’s a press server:
http://fr.canon.ch/for_work/products/professional_print/controllers__rips/imagepress_server_t1/index.asp
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August 27th, 2009 at 4:26 am
Perhaps I’m missing the point, but at what point does ‘blisteringly fast’ fps become redundant in a camera that shoots HD video?
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August 27th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
hope the 60d or 7d better than sony A850.
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August 28th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
[...] the 7D announcement date is based on a recent post found on canonrumors.com – A roadmap: odds and ends [...]
September 1st, 2009 at 11:56 am
September 1st, 2009 and still no EOS 2000D for those of us with a small budget… snif snif
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