AlanF said:

That quote is clearly silly. It was made by him as a joke but people take it seriously not knowing its context. See for its context: https://www.newsweek.com/opposites-attract-137833

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Yes, it was meant provocingly and ironically, and I quoted it that way (irony is always a problem in such threads like this one here, I may better have used a smiley icon showing that). But besides his later problems with holding the camera steady as an old man, this quote contains a deeper wisdom. HCB came from painting and knew that technical perfection isn't automatically good photography. I myself am quite skilled in drawing, in particular fast street drawing (people drawn recognize themselves), and started later with serious photography, so I have a bit deeper knowledge based on that sort of experience. Here is an example of a famous out-of-focus image by HCB: here he couldn't focus so fast precisely on the guy on the bicycle in that short moment (don't forget, he had a fully manual Leica), so the in-focus distance is a bit behind him - but it is gorgeous snapshot and perfectly composed. Well, this is about photograpic art, not nerdy tech talk, so let's stop that discussion, I think this is not an appropriate forum here. My quote was merely meant as a joke. Have a good day!

glideher said:

where would be a good place to purchase a used R4? i currently have a mirrored camera looking to upgrade to a mirrorless, wold the R4 be a good advancement?

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R6.2 might be a better choice. Try ebay

1N RS is also mirrorless and it uses Canon's ef mount, so no need to use an adapter or buy new lenses!

where would be a good place to purchase a used R4? i currently have a mirrored camera looking to upgrade to a mirrorless, wold the R4 be a good advancement?

danielH said:

Based on your past experience, or insider information, do you think the R6 III will get a discount during Black Friday?
I'm also considering purchasing about €6,000 in lenses. Maybe a rebate from Canon or resellers, like the more you buy the more you save?
Bottom line: is it worth waiting two weeks?

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Wait...but maybe not for the R6 III.
It could make sense waiting for some offers on lenses.

Referring to article https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-r6-series-comparision/.

This is an excellent article, I find comparisons on technology improvements in products very interesting and it also provides good intelligence for those looking to either justify buying the new model or buying the previous one for a lot less cost.

One thing in the article I am not sure I have understood correctly is the resolution increase. It is listed as 16% from the Mark III over the Mark II Resolution Increase from R6 Mark II. However that resolution increase is per dimension if I have understood it correctly.

The resolution increase in MP for the Mark III over the Mark II is 34%, and is 64% for the Mark III over the Mark I.

I feel this gives a much better representation of the detail increase on the newer models.

Based on your past experience, or insider information, do you think the R6 III will get a discount during Black Friday?
I'm also considering purchasing about €6,000 in lenses. Maybe a rebate from Canon or resellers, like the more you buy the more you save?
Bottom line: is it worth waiting two weeks?

I do not know where you got the information from, but it is not consistent with her entry on Wikipedia. For example:

Your text has: “Katharine's contributions were minimized or ignored”

Wikipedia has an Awards section which has: “Blodgett received numerous awards during her lifetime. She received a star in the seventh edition of American Men of Science (1943), recognizing her as one of the 1,000 most distinguished scientists in the United States. In 1945, the American Association of University Women honored her with its Annual Achievement Award” and “Blodgett's accomplishments were widely recognized, earning her several prestigious awards”.

rombe3jr said:

The R6 is still an incredible camera. I've been debating getting a second hand R6 instead of the R6II and with that $900 USD savings buy a used 28-70 f/2.8 STM. After that it might be a few years to save for more RF glass! At least anything that zooms or has an "L" in the name

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Hehe I feel the same way about my R5, which I got just a month before the mkii was released. I now in a need for second camera body and I am strongly considering the original R6. Same controls, (just no top LCD) as R5, same ergonomics, same batteries, but smaller file sizes. Only thing... weight and compact size favor the R8. I am going back and forth on this all the time!
R6 is still such a great camera and if I get one on Kleinanzeigen (eBay), I might end up paying less than 1.k € for it.

First of all, lovely post I knew most of the psychological parts behind all of it, but´ve never written it down and the detailed part about the "psychology of pre-purchasing" had some aspects I didn't know about.

LogicExtremist said:

The 'supply woes' press releases are just marketing scams to psychologically manipulate gullible consumers.

For anyone interested, this is how it works:

When companies announce that delivery delays are caused by an overwhelming number of orders, they are tapping into well-documented psychological triggers that increase perceived value and urgency. This framing creates an impression of extreme popularity, which activates social proof - the assumption that if many others are buying the product, it must be desirable or superior. It also leverages scarcity psychology, where consumers fear missing out and therefore become more motivated to purchase quickly, even if they were undecided.

In many cases, these claims are strategically timed during product launches to generate hype, shape public perception, and inflate the sense of demand, regardless of whether supply chain factors or deliberate production pacing are the real causes of the delay. By shifting attention to supposed high demand, companies deflect from logistical shortcomings while simultaneously strengthening the emotional appeal of the product.

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I hate hyped products, I hate things generated by marketing. I hate the manipulative way marketing works sometimes. Worst thing: high RRP´s that have three discounts and a "final" 80% off tag which you can find in several furniture stores in this area. It really is a pain because it makes it really hard to evaluate a "good" price.

LogicExtremist said:

Now, there's also the psychology of pre-purchasing which is equally amusing:

Consumers who pre-order products before they are released or properly tested are often driven by a mix of psychological biases and emotional motives that override careful evaluation. Pre-ordering taps into anticipatory reward, where the excitement of being 'first' creates a dopamine-driven impulse that feels rewarding even before the product arrives. This behaviour is reinforced by FOMO (fear of missing out) and scarcity cues, especially when companies imply limited stock or high demand. It also reflects optimism bias, the assumption that a new product will meet expectations despite a lack of real-world data. For some consumers, pre-ordering becomes tied to identity and belonging - they want to feel part of the 'in-group' of early adopters, or they align their self-image with a brand’s narrative. In extreme cases, this behaviour becomes a form of self-justification, where placing a pre-order suppresses underlying doubts, because committing early feels like a way to validate one’s loyalty and reduce uncertainty. Altogether, these factors create a psychological environment in which emotion, status, and anticipation overpower measured decision-making.

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Very interesting! Somehow, I am in some ways immune to this things at least when it comes to cameras. I've never purchased anything right away. Whenever I look at products, I try to figure out what price I´d pay for it. I first tested the EOS R at the photokina in 2018 when it was released. I did fall in love with it asap, but I figure out quickly I´d only pay less than 2.000 € (which still is a lot) and figured I´d wait two years for that to happen. Fortunately, I got it for 1.850 € in March 2019 and I was very glad. The 1.800 € wasn't undercut for years to come so even now I consider it a great.

The 45mm would have been my first pre-order but I do have the 50mm VCM. I bought this lens (and would´ve preorder the 45mm if I hadn't gotten the VCM) for a very specify reason/ need which I put a lot of thought into it. And this is one point, which I think justifies preorders: sometimes you really wait for products with a certain feature set and when a product checks all the boxes, you go for it! I´m absolutely sure that there are several people out there who've been waiting a long time for the R6 line to hit their sweet spot 32 mp. Now it's go time and I don't believe they are struck by FOMO or scarcity cues.

LogicExtremist said:

Make sure to get those pre-orders in folks - you wouldn’t want to miss the thrill of buying something untested just so you can defend it before you’ve even used it.

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I sure hope everybody can enjoy their new gear and I´d love to hear from you and share your impressions (R6iii as well as 45mm F1.2)

esspy2 said:

My R6 original has log view assist, c-log3, and oversampled 4k 60p! I loved shooting it in japan last year and is more than rnough camera for me still! Just need to save up more money for the rf lenses

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The R6 is still an incredible camera. I've been debating getting a second hand R6 instead of the R6II and with that $900 USD savings buy a used 28-70 f/2.8 STM. After that it might be a few years to save for more RF glass! At least anything that zooms or has an "L" in the name

Unlike the many posters who pretend to know what the majority of consumers want, I do not pretend to know, but here is my guess. I think (but do not know) that there are basically two main groups of R7 owners. Group 1: those who want to get into birding and wildlife, but have a limited budget. Group 2: Those who had the 7D or 7D II and want a higher end camera for birding and wildlife, but settled for the R7. My guess is that Canon looks at Group1 and assumes that this group will not be interested in an R7 II, and would be the type of consumer who will keep their camera for 7, 8 or more years. So only Group 2, would be potential buyers of an R7 II if it moves upmarket. So my guess is that the R7 II moves upmarket, and the original R7 will still be sold for some time.

JKT said:

On the subject of *** logging: Most of the time your phone is the only additional device you need, but connecting it reliably to the camera is problematic. So I've used it simply as *** logger with a simple and free program called ... "GPSlogger". Once you've given it sufficient permissions it will doggedly record your track as long as you don't turn your phone off. I have not noticed any excessive drain on battery. This on Android at least.

It would be really nice if the camera recorded compass heading, elevation angle and focus distance in the images. Those combined with the *** position would enable calculating the (approximate) focus point location later. Likely not relevant most of the time, but fun when recording far-away observations.

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Another option is if you have gps watch, its probably easy enough to match or take the nearest timecodes to get the gps location to the photo

AlanF said:

That quote is clearly silly. It was made by him as a joke but people take it seriously not knowing its context. See for its context: https://www.newsweek.com/opposites-attract-137833

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That's really interesting, thanks; these bts stories are real gold.

My R6 original has log view assist, c-log3, and oversampled 4k 60p! I loved shooting it in japan last year and is more than rnough camera for me still! Just need to save up more money for the rf lenses

Canon has definitely got it right in the short term with its strategy. But in the long term, the pain may be much greater than the short term gain. As the author wrote, "But if you are on a limited budget, such as a budding professional, it’s becoming extremely painful to say that Canon is the right decision." I only have personal knowledge of a half-dozen professionals. All the established ones (except for my daughter) migrated from Canon to Sony or Nikon within the past two years, and the "budding professionals have gone straight into Sony. (my pro-daughter migrated from a couple of ancient Nikon D750's (and their stable of Sigma lenses) to Canon - because "Dad shoots Canon and he gave her a screaming good deal on a Canon R5 when he replaced it with an R5 II" - But she has become very disillusioned with not being able to use Sigma lenses. Her allegiance to Dad and Canon are fading.

LogicExtremist said:

That is an interesting idea, but I'm not sure where you heard that.

In modern manufacturing, especially under JIT (just in time)) and lean systems, companies do not intentionally underproduce; these systems are designed to match production precisely to forecasted demand...

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To clarify, my theory isn't about deliberately underproducing, it's about conservative demand forecasting. They may make conservative demand forecasts, to make sure they don't have excess inventory. Canon states that they want 60 days or less of inventory. At one point in 2024 they had 86 days of inventory. They don't want that to happen again.

justaCanonuser said:

"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."
Henry Cartier Bresson

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That quote is clearly silly. It was made by him as a joke but people take it seriously not knowing its context. See for its context: https://www.newsweek.com/opposites-attract-137833

SnowMiku said:

It makes it a lot easier for beginners buying their first camera, my first 700D came with the EF-S 18-55mm and EF-S 55-250mm. At the time I didn't even know the difference between EF-S and EF lenses.

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Point and shoot should be for this, "amateurs" or "beginners" that want no fuss.

The core feature of mirrorless/dslrs are that you can SWAP lenses. The bar of entry should be that much higher, it literally takes 5 minutes to ask ChatGPT about all of it... And you will need that knowledge at some point

Del Paso said:

Many Black Friday or "tax free" airport offers are of the same kind. The Frankfurt airport (or was it Munich?) will sell you a tax free Leica M11 at exactly the same price you'd pay at an official Leica store...
PS: A price I'd no longer pay for a digital body with planned obsolescence... You still can get a 70 years old M3 serviced and repaired, but an M11 in 15 years???

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At this point I am pretty sure the shop owners are the only who benefit from the "tax free" part in airports tbh. Never buy anything in airports except maybe water if no other options

I believe the battery life of the R63 (270/510) is incorrect in the comparison table:

Canon Europe states the battery life is 390/620:

mxwphoto said:

Thanks, I do hope I this will enable me to carry my camera more often. I absolutely love the images from my RF 85 1.2 but it is certainly a beast to carry and I do end up being very intentional (think twice) when I do take it with me on trips. I am expecting the 45mm to be more of a grab and go without much afterthought, so more opportunities to shoot.

Besides, I don't think anyone is pixel peeping for sharpness or how much CA are in our collectively defining photographs. Heck, likely don't even know which camera/lens was used that took the photos.

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"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."
Henry Cartier Bresson

LogicExtremist said:

The 50 mm f/1.4 VCM also has hybrid plastic lens elements in it, a new cost cutting measure in an L-series lens...

A replicated aspherical element is made by applying a thin optical resin layer onto a glass blank and pressing it against a master aspheric mold to replicate the exact aspherical profile so the polymer cures into the exact aspheric shape. The lens is glass underneath, with a thin replicated polymer aspheric surface on top. Canon L-series lenses typically use precision-ground or precision-molded glass aspherical elements, not replicated or plastic-based ones.

Oh, but is really sharp though you may be saying. Yes, somehow sharper than the RF 50mm f/1.2 L lens, which is designed for the best RENDERING and final image. The criticism of many modern Canon lenses being extremely sharp in the center while producing harsh or nervous bokeh, is legitimate. This stems from the optical tradeoffs involved in strongly correcting spherical aberration. Pushing spherical aberration close to zero maximizes resolution and boosts MTF performance on the test charts, but it also removes the slight under-correction that traditionally gives older lenses their smoother blur and softer transitions. When this residual aberration is eliminated in pursuit of sharpness, out-of-focus areas develop harder edges and busier textures, reducing what many photographers call “good rendering.” These effects are an unavoidable tradeoff and consequence of modern high-resolution optical design priorities. Enjoy!

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Well, aspherical lenses made by plastic resin is what we all use today - in our smartphones. But many thanks for that explanation. I am not in a hurry to get this lens, I may wait until a review by opticallimits is available. Bryan Carnathan obviously didn't find the lens' bokeh to be harsh or overly busy. I would be more concerned about the question what happens within the resin layer when it ages, because I normally use a lens much longer than a smartphone.

Btw also old undercorrected fast glass can produce a quite busy and harsh bokeh if the background has lot of contrast rich highlights. Here is an example I shot recently with may vintage Canon 1.4/50mm LTM lens (Leica M39 screw mount, model year 1961) adapted on my R5 II, @ f/1.4 (this crop only shows a part of the background since I didn't ask the people in the center for their allowance to post the complete image here). This image is a typical example for a setting in which you either accept such a busy bokeh as part of the composition or just do not use such a lens. I tend to the first decision in such cases, in fact, I have some fun with such effects since they create an interesting graphical quality (but I do come from arts (drawing) when I am photographing what means that I also like non-perfection - if it is in an artistic way interesting).

Thanks for the comparison, Richard. It seems to me, that an ugrade from my R6 to the R6III is not necessary. Most tech is the same! Rear screen, Viewfinder, subject detection, flash sync speed, IBIS, sensor type, high ISO etc. The electronic shooting rate does not bother me, neither readout speed or video-specs. Only the resolution increase of 27% may be interesting and of course the AF-Speed. But for most cases the R6 is good enough for me.

I will rather purchase some additonal Lenses (RF 85L?) or a monstrous tripod for my EF 400/2.8L II.