Richard CR said:

I was a little tempted to put the R8 in there as well, as at least with the R6 Mark II and now III it really does feel like the lineup has shifted upscale. But I think the RP and also the R8 if anyone would be the spiritual successor of the entry-level rebels in EF-S land, while the R6 would be like the "super rebel" that sat about (think 77D, etc) - i still think there's a seperation there.

Once the R6 Mark III gets here in the next couple of days, the R6 III will be in there, and I'll certainly think of adding the R8 as well, and talking more about if this is a fork in thinking from Canon - like the XXD series went on after the 50D when the line split to the 60D and the 7D.

I'll certainly give it some thought! Thanks!

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Yes, I've often compared the RP to the one-off 77D. Not quite an x0D, not quite a Rebel. Somewhere in between.

roby17269 said:

Numbering aside, I'd still argue that the R6 (I/II/III) is not the spiritual successor of the 6D (I/II).
The RP and then the R8 fit the bill more, IMHO

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Roger Cicala called the EOS R (not the RP) a mirrorless 6D Mark II.

Sure, the R had the 5D Mark IV sensor. But does the 1D X Mark III sensor in the R6 make it the successor to the 1D X series?

Michael Clark said:

People used to talk about how Canon "abandoned" EF-S in the early 2010s because they didn't release any significant new EF-S lenses past the late 2000s. They said the same thing about the EOS M mount. Canon released a handful of lenses that were the lenses an EOS M buyer was likely to purchase.

But fan boys were falling off cliffs complaining there was not an equivalent EF-S or EF-M lens for every FF EF lens in the catalog. That's never how Canon has done it. If you want a full catalog of dedicated crop lenses go to Micro Four-Thirds or Fuji APS-C. Canon ain't ever going there.

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Well, I don't think anybody expects a full line of RF-s lines that exactly duplicate their full frame counterparts. And for longer focal lengths, that would be pretty meaningless. But Canon doesn't seem to want to produce any decent crop lenses. No 17-55 f/2.8. No 32 f/1.4. No 22 f/2 even. Even the lenses they had with the M mount have all but disappeared, outside of the 18-150, and it's pretty slow.

Fortunately, Sigma and others are filling in the gaps, though with sometimes extreme lenses. 17-40 f/1.8 sounds pretty good, but a 17-55 or 15-55 f/2.8 would be more useful to most.

Can't please everyone, of course, and maybe Canon letting Sigma into the fold for crop lenses is their way of dealing with the issue at the lowest cost. Designing and developing a lens does cost money after all. But for Sigma, they can design one and sell it to 3 or 4 different mounts. So it's in their best interest to sell those lenses, and maybe Canon's best interest to leave the higher end crop lenses mostly to the third part brands.

Canon Rumors said:

You can actually read these

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Looks like they went with the magnesium body on this - thats a welcome surprise.

Today I had to take photos of the very old dog of my neighbo(u)r. These are the "byproduct"...

AlanF said:

Pied Wagtail (White Wagtail). R5ii + RF 200-800mm.

View attachment 226762

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Non of the European Wagtails is posing readily well. You really got this one!!

As a photographer, it’s wild to think about how we went from those early, gear-whine autofocus systems to the near-silent Dual Nano USM and VCM setups we rely on today. Articles like this make you realize just how much engineering is behind something we now do without thinking -- half-press, focus, shoot.

Chattanooga wedding photographer

roby17269 said:

EF(-S) is not dead in that you can still buy new gear which is under support... but it is dead in the sense that Canon is not developing the system anymore. They may build small batches of EF(-S) gear as market requires, but large parts of the systems have been discontinued now and Canon wants you to buy RF(-S)... and I think this is more than speculation

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That's like saying a couple who are no longer having children are dead, even though they are still raising the children they already have. Even after one retires (from their career) they're not dead as long as they are still living.

roby17269 said:

FF is not only the camera but also the system of lenses that comes with it. Initially RF-S was lens-starved, but now with the Sigma additions it has developed into a nice little system. What I mean is that I assume that the main "lure" for EF-S holdouts is RF-S. And whoever among the EF-S holdouts was susceptible to transition to FF, most of them have probably already done so, given the time since EF(-S) has been declared "dead".


Don't they have the R50 and R100 for that? We can agree that they are limited, but so are the xxxD and xxxxD cameras...

Disclaimer: I am speculating about the market and Canon's strategy, as I do not have any data or insights beyond what we all have access to

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People used to talk about how Canon "abandoned" EF-S in the early 2010s because they didn't release any significant new EF-S lenses past the late 2000s. They said the same thing about the EOS M mount. Canon released a handful of lenses that were the lenses an EOS M buyer was likely to purchase.

But fan boys were falling off cliffs complaining there was not an equivalent EF-S or EF-M lens for every FF EF lens in the catalog. That's never how Canon has done it. If you want a full catalog of dedicated crop lenses go to Micro Four-Thirds or Fuji APS-C. Canon ain't ever going there.

David - Sydney said:

We won't know when Canon will sunset the RP. It also may be a one-off or remain the bridge from xxD or even XXXD to RF even though it is full frame vs APS-C for the others.
When the R8 is a 60% premium from B&H and the R10 a 10% premium to the RP's USD900 then it still has a strong presence for the lower end bodies.

Canon will need something to move the remaining DLSR xxxxD and xxxD to RF and the R10 isn't that model at this time.

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The EOS R100 comes as close as we'll probably ever see to an xx0D in the RF mount.

roby17269 said:

Feelings and numbering aside, in the DSLR era we had 3 FF bodies families (6D, 5D and 1D), now we seem to have 5 (R8, R6, R5, R3 and R1)
The transition was not 1 to 1 with the R and RP bridging the gap, and based on sensor I think initially Canon was considering replicating the same 3 EF families in the R system.
Also, we don't know if the R3 will be a one-off or not.

I guess for me it's clear that the R8 is a continuation of the 6D as the entry-level, low-cost FF camera, while the R6 seems to straddle between the lower tier and the R5 and thus it's a new family.

Not that it matters much Only Canon knows for sure.
As long as a camera fulfills its purpose and gives you joy, that's all that matters to someone like me. The R5 and the H5X do that for me. Now lenses, that's anther topic

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The EOS 1D (APS-H) and 1Ds (FF) line became the 18 MP 1D X (following the 16.1 MP APS-H 1D mark IV) and 22.3 MP 5D Mark III (following the 21.1 MP 1Ds Mark III). The 50D split into the half-tier higher 7D and half-tier lower 60D. Canon has constantly merged and expanded tiers as market conditions change. This is nothing new if you've been watching Canon for 25 years.

Basing only on sensor will lead you to wrong conclusions. Was the R6 a 1-Series camera because it used the 1D X Mark III sensor? Where all of those Rebels that used the 18 MP sensor first introduced with the 7D actually 7-Series cameras? Were all of those Rebels that used the Dual Pixel AF 18 MP sensor first introduced in the 70D actually x0D series cameras? Some lower tier bodies have always gotten hand-me-down sensors from higher tier models in Canon's history.

I think this camera could be my first Canon mirrorless to get, i mean i can't afford Canon from R1 down to R5 mkii yet, I stopped photography long time ago, and i want to return back with something latest affordable camera from Canon, R6 mkIII sounds a good start, and later i can save for something better, if i want more longer time to save money or waiting very latest camera then i will never buy anything.

Ozarker said:

Good Lord, my camera is already 7?!

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You say this is the year 2025? Good Lord, I'm OLD! Years are supposed to start with 19xx.

m4ndr4ke said:

Lucky you. My copy of that lens was crap
I even sent it to repair once, but it didn't make much of a difference, it just improved slightly. Beyond 100mm mine was crap, unless I shot it at like f/11. I could get better detail by cropping from 70mm to 200mm on the 24-70mm f/2.8 II (yes, I really tested that).

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That's what one gets when buying mostly used gear. Sometimes the reason someone else sold it is because it's the exception that got past QC. If you pay attention to MPB (which include photos of each actual lens including the serial numbers), you can see the same lens coming and going 4-5-6 times over several months.

I thought I'd wade back in after sending my R5ii into Canon for a second time. Again, they replaced the printed circuit board, and checked the sensor, firmware, etc. It arrived just before heading back to Churchill for another season of photographing polar bears. For the most part, the new mother board seemed to work well. The camera didn't crap out (totally), and the battery level didn't drop super fast. On the other hand, it wasn't as cold as last year so I may yet see a return to previous challenges. What did happen on a regular basis is the dreaded dead battery alert - however popping it out and back in while the switch was in the on position, got the camera up and running again. I often shot between 350 and 480 frames as well as a fair bit of video each day and almost never changed battery.

A colleage believes the huge venting on the mark ii has something to do with it so he tapes his up in the winter and that seemed to help in his case.

I've spent a ton of money to avoid the problem and I hate throwing more money but I can't risk a camera dying on my photo tours. I've bought a dummy battry to run off a Dtap if necessary as well as a second R5 mark i body (since I know that seems to work in all temps). In January, I head back up when it drops to as low as -50C/-58F. My old 5Ds laughed at those temps, and my colleague has been using his R5 in those temps for several years. Fingers crossed the mark ii still works. I'd like to use my R5 for time lapses and my mark ii for photos.

DocInfoSci said:

Hello! My thinking is this:

RP clearly is a 6D2 successor

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Except it's not. The RP was a new class of budget FF digital camera. The very first from Canon. The 6-Series has always been mid-grade and the 5-Series evolved from upper mid-grade with the 5D Mark II to pro-grade with the 5D Mark III (which was essentially a non-gripped 1Ds Mark IV).

The EOS R was a mirrorless 6D Mark II with a 5D Mark IV sensor. That's how Roger Cicala described it. Insisting the EOS R was a 5-Series body because it has a sensor formerly used in the 5D Mark IV is about as ridiculous as claiming the R6 is a 1-Series body because it has the same sensor as the 1D X Mark III.

DocInfoSci said:

There's probably an argument that the R8 also exists to placate those who used to buy the x0D series as well. Maybe it does double duty?

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In that analogy the RP is the FF 77D. (The 77D is slightly more camera than a Rebel, slightly less camera than an xOD, the RP is slightly more camera than a FF Rebel, slightly less than a 6-Series.)

DocInfoSci said:

Having owned the 80D (well, it was my wife's and now my son's), I felt it was a fun, geeky, and relatively affordable alternative to the much more expensive full frames: it gave the "feel" of an "upscale camera" as seen in the hands of the well-heeled out on holiday, like that stranger who steps onto a float plane in Alaska with their 5Dx amidst the sea of people clutching their Best Buy bodies.

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Maybe the 7D Mark II, because when looking through the viewfinder it looked like a 5-Series, or even 1-Series VF, and it did feel like a 5-Series camera when shooting with it.

But no one "stepping onto a float plane in Alaska" is mistaking a 7D or xoD for a 5-Series body "amidst a sea of Big Box store bodies." (By the way, plenty of people bought early 5-Series bodies at Best Buy. I bought a 50D body at Best Buy once upon a time when I needed it faster than FedEx could get it from B&H to me.)

DocInfoSci said:

Canon kind of lost that feel with the R transition, I think, although cameras like the R8 are probably their attempt to at least slot in a price equivalent. I don't think the R8 spiritually captures what was happening, but it sits at a good price point in the catalog. They'd do well, I feel, to make a mini R5 body in crop form and re-introduce the X0D series as an X0R line -- and that's where the new video functionality they've been pushing for the new gen would fit very, very comfortably for people like my kiddo and his friends. But I agree, it also fills that 6D character as well -- competent, trade-offs, but serves. Someone mentioned earlier here that the R6 is kind of the 5D of yesteryear and the R5 is something new (or maybe the new 5DS/R?), in which case the R8 is now definitely the 6D equivalent.

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The transition is a lot clearer if one stops insisting that using a sensor from an older camera means the newer camera is in the same class.

Lots of Rebels had the same 18 MP sensor introduced in the 7D and the 18 MP Dual Pixel AF version introduced in the 70D. The R6 had the same sensor as the 1D X Mark III. No one insists that a Rebel Tx/x000D with the same sensor as an older xoD or xx0D is in the same class. No one insists that the R6 is a 1-Series body, even though the 2020 R6 runs circles around the 2009 1D Mark IV in every conceivable way (except maybe build quality). The limits of technology expand.

The tiers at Canon have always shifted a bit to react to market conditions.

The 20D-30D-40D-50D split off into the 2009 7D, which was a half-tier upgrade, and the 2010 60D, which was a half-tier downgrade at several points from the 50D.

The FF 1Ds series evolved into the non-integrated grip 5D Mark III when Canon gave the APS-H 1D series an 18 MP FF sensor and claimed they were unifying the 1D and 1Ds into the 1D X. It's no accident Canon's highest resolution body at the time, the 21.1 MP 1Ds Mark III was discontinued at the same time the 22.3 MP 5D Mark III was introduced with a pro grade AF system. The 2008 21.0 MP 5D Mark II was intentionally slightly lower resolution than the 2007 21.1 MP 1Ds Mark III. The 5D Mark II also had a consumer grade AF system. The 5D Mark III used the same PDAF array part number as the 1D X.

If the EOS RP had any precedent amongst Canon's DSLR bodies, it was the one-off 77D. More camera than a Rebel. Less camera than a 70D.

The 6-Series is pretty straightforward: 6D → 6D Mark II → (EOS R) → R6 → R6 Mark II → R6 Mark III.

Sure, each model in the 6-Series has better AF than the previous body. So does each model in the 1-Series. So does each model in the 5-Series. So does each model in the x0D series, in the xx0D series...

The 5-Series is a little more nuanced: 5D → 5D Mark II were consumer grade FF bodies. 1Ds → 1Ds Mark II → 1Ds Mark III were pro grade gripped FF bodies. In 2012 those two series were merged into the pro-grade but non-gripped 5D Mark III → 5D Mark IV → R5 → R5 Mark II.

As time marches on lower tier bodies have always gotten trickle down from previous higher tier bodies. But as the lower tier picks up capabilities and features previously only seen on higher tier bodies, the higher tier bodies pick up new capabilities and features that didn't previously exist in any camera.

PinholeR5 said:

The EOS M system did have more of the high end features in small form-factor feel to it. I wish some of that moves over to the RF system.

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Given how popular the M50ii and M6ii were outside of the US, I am still really really surprised that those tiny form factors haven't found their way to the R series. I honestly expected it well before now.

Exploreshootshare said:

The camera looks really nice and I love the specs! I love they kept the camera layout exactly the same! I think Canon is settling in. I´d only wish for a different rear screen mechanism. If I hadn't gotten the R5 last year, this would be my new camera To me, 32 MP (12,5 MP in crop mode) is an absolute sweet spot! 45 MP sometimes really is too much, especially when shooting kids on sports day... First world problems.

An interesting side note: There were rumors/ mumblings once of the R8ii getting a stacked if the R6iii gets one because in order to cut costs they share the same sensor. Well, thats obviously off the table (if it ever actually was on the table). I don't even believe the R8ii would get the R6iii sensor. In terms of market segmentation, it makes sense to keep the R8 at 24 MP. So I'll go ahead and purchase an R8 because the only that'd make me wait for th mkii would be a joystick. I think that isn't happening.

If the original R6 finally drops in resell value, I´d strongly consider it as well. I am shooting two christening, a diamond wedding, a 60th and a 50th birthday in my family/ friend circle next year. Looking forward to a two camera set-up

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blackcoffee17 said:

Actually i hope the R8 II will keep the current sensor that is amazing and will add some features from the R6, like IBIS or joystick or wheel.

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Exploreshootshare said:

I´d hope so, too! But, realistically I don't think it'll happen. IBIS and a joystick pushes it very close to the R6 line. I´d believe they'll add a wheel and maybe a button to the layout. Few minor tweaks and done. Looking at the price point, R6 line up isn't going upmarket, so the R8ii won't either. If both had gone upmarket, it would've created space for an even more stripped down FF camera (R9). A spot in which currently the RP kind of sits in. If this would have been the case, I believe the R8ii would have gained more features.But four or five (depending on whether the R3 line will stick around) lines of FF cameras seem to be enough.

The R6iii release kind of tells us a lot about the rest of the line-up. About the R8 but also how Canon handles market segmentation in comparison to the R5 (eye AF, cross type AF points...). The only real question to me is: what will happen to the R3 line? Will it become GS one day? Or will it serve as a cheaper R1 option lacking certain features? We will see.

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rombe3jr said:

IBIS and the wheel are the only things holding me back from the R8.

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Out of the three: IBIS, joystick and wheel, I would expect the joystick to be the most likely to be added, simply because the cheaper R10 has a joystick. I really like the R8. I have many cameras, so my comments are very skewed, but for me the main attraction of the R8 is the form-factor. The IQ it delivers is outstanding. I do wish an R8 II added a wheel instead of the D-Pad in the back, maybe a joystick and IBIS. I like the concept of smaller body + higher end features. It is tricky, though, from a segmentation point of view. Perhaps have an RP II as the low-cost entry level FF and let the R8 line be the high-end smaller form-factor FF camera.

The same goes for the R50. I'd wish to see higher end features for that form-factor. I love the portability and paired with the Sigma APS-C RF lenses (10-18mm f/2.8, 18-50mm f/2.8, 56mm f/1.4, etc) it makes for a very nice travel system. I'd pay for a higher end model with an improved sensor in that form-factor, with more wheels, etc.

The EOS M system did have more of the high end features in small form-factor feel to it. I wish some of that moves over to the RF system.

Boy oh boy. Now I have some thinking to do. As I get older, not having IBIS seems like it is starting to become a problem. I've recently developed a bit of a tremor in my right hand that I imagine it's only a matter of time before it starts affecting things some. When I bought my R8, it kind of boiled down to whether the R6ii was worth an extra $1K to me just because it has IBIS. At that time, it was a pretty easy no. Especially since I was on a limited budget for the upgrade. Now? With discounts and holiday sale prices, that difference has dropped down to $600 - and will likely get even lower. Meanwhile, my use for IBIS has grown - and will likely continue to grow. Initially I was all onboard with the idea of upgrading into the R6iii because I liked the little resolution bump. But the difference in cost right now is $700-800 over the R6ii. And I'm kind of hung on that. I've gotten along quite well on 24mpx. And I am now shooting both photos and video professionally for a boat racing team. I presently shoot with an R8 and R10 combo, using the R10 for the video work that I do for them as well as some telephoto stills. It's a great pairing, and I envisioned my R6iii jump as being the first step, with the R10 being replaced by the R7ii when it drops. Though I don't need the IBIS as much for the racing photo/video work, I do think it would be helpful for my hobby work. But maybe instead of going all-in right now, I could use the R6ii as a stepping stone, give it a couple of years to make sure IBIS is right for me, and use the extra money on an R50V to make the video setup even smaller and more portable when I am traveling to race sites. Tempting...

roby17269 said:

I guess I am confused by the parallels you are making?
And I guess Canon's numbering patterns do not help...

But to me the 6 lineage would be: 6D -> 6D II -> RP -> R8...
While the 5 lineage has remained more or less linear (the R is a bit of an outlier), the 6 lineage seems to have split into 8 and new 6 (R6 -> R6 II -> R6 III) that slots between the 8 and the 5.

By the way, I sympathize with your some of your considerations, being myself a non-pro prosumer who likes pro features

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Other than the sensor, the EOS R was more the successor to the 6D Mark II than the RP was. Even Roger Cicala called the EOS R "a mirrorless 6D Mark II" after doing an EOS R teardown. (No one claimed the R6 was the successor to the 1D X Mark III just because it has the same sensor...)

The RP was the first budget Full Frame digital camera in Canon's history. Canon had NEVER released a FF DSLR at anywhere near that price before. There was no "previous" model in the series. Nor has there been a succeeding model in that price range and class. The R8 comes close, but it's more like a FF 80D compared to the RP being a FF 77D. (The 77D was not quite an x0D, not quite a Rebel, either.)

Walrus said:

Camera bodies are overrated, lenses are 10 times more important. I don't like to think about fanboys of any manufacturer, I like to think on each one of us wanting to spend their money on what we consider the best tech for our needs.
I use Canon since 1999, in the film days, and never had any other 24x36 system for this 26 years, so I can be considered somewhat a Canon fanboy, but no matter what the R6 III is bringing us, I can tell you I have never been so close so switch side, to Sony, and not by the reason of "lenses", plural, but I'm ready to switch just to get ahold of a single specific lens, the Tamron 35-150, that for me is enough to bear with Sony ergonomics and menus, which I deem way inferior to Canon's.

Cameras are full of marketing gimmicks, sometimes REALLY helpful, especially in the AF department, but in the end they're just black boxes recording light via the exposure triangle, and what really makes the difference is lighting, first, and the lens, second. Camera comes in as a distant third.
I don't know if Sony fans won't be able to ignore Canon after the release of the R6 III, but I can tell you that I still won't be able to ignore Sony even if the 45 f1.2 (which is why I'm here, the R6III doesn't interest me one bit) is great and even if I'll buy it on pre-order, I'll still be thinking about that Tamron lens, and possibly ending up switching side.

Who cares about being a fan of a company? Really?

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Why not buy a cheap Sony body just for that one lens? Since bodies don't matter, anyway?

Keep your Canon gear for all your other use cases. No need to "switch".

rombe3jr said:

This R6 Mark III forum is by far the most popular on Canon Rumors. Well over 500 comments and climbing each day. This is going to be an important camera in the Canon lineup for the next few years. So far, the rumors seem to be ringing true to the market and it should be a best seller. Cannot say the same for Sony and the A7V. The few rumors that are being leaked are not looking good. My guess is that Sony is freaking out how much Canon is advancing the technology at the same price point. They will either have to take an "L" (loss) on this model and try to do better in a couple years or just reduce the price on a minor update to the A7IV. To their credit, Sony did finally reduce the price of the A7IV from $2,700 to $2,000 (USD) and that helped move it to number one on Amazon. But it looks like the R6 III is going to have so many more features than the A7V at nearly the same price, that even Sony fanboys won't be able to ignore Canon anymore. Of course they will just continue to gloat about all of their 3rd party lenses on the FE mount still missing from RF mount. Looks like that's the only hand Sony fans will have left after the R6 III is announced on Thursday.

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Yeah, it's ALL about sticking it to those Sony fanboys, isn't it?

It has nothing to do with actually going out and taking well composed, well lit photos that tell a story, does it?

m4ndr4ke said:

View attachment 226766
Do you mean red? That would move the lens hood as well, but this is not a lens hood that attaches to the filter thread, like they usually do on pancake lenses.

I mean green. I think the elements may move, but such movement would be limited by the position of the filter, much like the RF 50mm f/1.2

View attachment 226767


Anyway, we'll certainly know within a few hours

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I think you are right in that the hood won't move. Just double checked my rf 100-400 and Canon marks it differently for hood alignment if it moves with barrel (unlike the red dot on outer barrel). The EF and RF L both have internal focusing ala filter seal so it could very likely be so for this one.

GMCPhotographics said:

Yes, you've reminded me that I really should send my EF 70-200mm f2.8 II L off to Canon for a service. Mine is a bit battered too and I've recenently noticed that the center moves when I zoom. It's not the IS, it looks like some of the internals are de-centered slightly. It still gives amazing and sharp images...but zoom bursts look a bit off center to to the optical alignment.

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If you send the lens to Canon for service be sure to include a detailed description of the problem and example images that demonstrate it. I've had much better results when doing so.

m4ndr4ke said:

I'd easily sacrifice the macro abilities on the 24 and 35, and take few millimetres extra on every other lens (16, 28, 50, etc) if they were designed like this.

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Whereas I wouldn't have got the 35 (or maybe even the 16) if they didn't allow reasonably close focus.