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Northlight reviews the Laowa 25mm f2.8 2.5-5x Ultra Macro

hendrik-sg said:
jolyonralph said:
Antono Refa said:
Chaitanya said:
Thanks for review. It does look like a good option to MP-E 65 and its smaller and lighter.

The MP-E is on the long side of normal, the Laowa is on the ultra side of wide, how can one be an alternative to the other?

When you get to 5:1 magnification this makes less difference than you'd think.

yeah, right, the working distance is almost the same. In my opinion staarting at 2.5x instead of 1x is a big disadvantage.

It came in for me just luckily, i the same day got a mp-e lens which i catched at ebay for great price. Ans yes, it's not easy to use, and without the usual accessories it's useless. Without tripod, maccro flash and sstacking software it can not show what iit can do.

But wow how this old style lens (released 20 years ago) is wonderful build quality.
Venus/Laowa sells a 60mm Macro which goes from infinity to 2x, so I think their logic behind this lens might be that 25mm will complement the 60mm Macro.

I looked at the MTF charts of this and the 65mm, and the Canon looks to be much better on paper, although I have to admit I didn't have the color key with me to indicate which lines represented which measurements. I look forward to the inevitable apples-to-apples shoot-out.

In terms of the aperture control, I don't mind the manual bit. I use a couple manually controlled aperture lenses for macro (in addition to Canon macros), and personally, I find it to be fine. The electronic swapping of apertures in the camera tends to annoy me a little because it is always turning dark at the moment focus is needed, so there is this constant pressure to be pressing the shutter button half-way to keep it on. With the aperture ring, I feel the process is more relaxed.

-tig

PS: I recently purchased the Mitakon equivalent of this lens for $169 and was quite happy with the image quality. Maybe this falls out of Dustin's realm of expertise, but I'd love to see someone take the three or four 1X-5x type lenses and put them through paces.
Mitakon lens only goes from 4x to 4.5x mag ratio, has only 3 aperture blades and its "narrower" at only 20mm while this Venus lens is 25mm and shoot from 2.5x to 5x mag ratio and has 8 bladed aperture.
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Canon: Continued support of Yellowstone Forever

daveheinzel said:
I’m still having ads on your site that take over the whole phone screen and redirect to another site. It’s been happening for weeks, and it’s to the point I don’t even want to come back here. I know you’re aware this is happening, but when is enough enough?

I think that's some of the new ad formats that google is working on. I'll pass this over to Craig.

it wasn't an ad format but something specific to the ads themselves that it's a problem all over. Try clearing your cache and see if that helps.
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Is Canon 5D Mark II Refurbished Still Have Its Position in 2018?

yungfat said:
Hi folks,

Do you think refurbished Canon 5D Mark II still worth $1,759 in 2018?

https://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/eos-5d-mark-ii-body-refurbished

This camera has dropped to around $1,800 while 6D launched, and refurbished unit still asking for $1,759 as per today price.

Just a bit strange for the pricing, the brand new 6D Mark II is listed as $1,899.

Seems tough to convinced consumer to purchase a refurbished unit at this price range.

Please share your comments.

Thank you.
Check B&H (and probably Adorama and Amazon) offer for 6D if it still is for 999 new.
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Leaked: Sigma 105mm f/1.4 HSM Art

slclick said:
And on the other hand I and others who have used, rented and owned most or all of the Art lenses (minus the wider new varieties) have experienced the opposite.
It's not really "on the other hand" when I explicitly stated
"Some other people may luck out and get a great-focusing copy right away. I don't doubt that there are some copies of Sigma lenses out there which manage to focus well enough for their owners."

rlarsen said:
This lens looks very heavy. I wonder at f2 how it compares with the Canon 100 f2.
One would have to assume better. Most f/1.4 lenses are better than f/2 equivalents when stopped down vs wide open. Sigma are reporting, by their own admission, that this 105mm design (currently) has extremely strong vignetting, but other Sigma lenses also have strong vignetting and clean up very nicely with just one stop. The 85 and 135 Sigmas don't have any other particular optical flaws, so it's hard to imagine this 105 will have any, too.

Conversely, the Canon 100mm f/2 doesn't have the resolving power to hold up on a 5DS R sensor—though less-dense sensors are fine for it—and it has some slight distortion, altered by focus breathing; noticeable barrel distortion at closest focus and strong pincushioning at infinity. Granted, in regular use you never notice these things, but we should all know by now that these Sigmas are sold primarily on their superiority in controlled lab testing, and that's where the Canon 100mm's faults show up.

In short, I expect this Sigma stopped down to f/2 to have a more uniformly-bright image, less distortion, more saturation, more broad contrast, more micro-contrast, less astigmatism toward the edges and corners, and higher resolution.

All that said, given my experience with multiple copies of the 'best'-focusing Sigmas, I don't trust the AF will be anywhere close to the Canon 100/2 (which is still one of the best AF motors in any Canon lens), and manual focus probably will be a tie. Of course then there's the weight, size, and price; it's very hard to ignore the fact the Canon 100mm f/2 can be found for as little as £200 in good condition and isn't much bigger than a cheap 50mm, with a very cheap 58mm filter thread to boot.
Then there's the rendering. Sigma lenses, while technically very good, have pretty boring rendering. Generally with lenses you can have technical perfection or pleasing rendering, but rarely both. (Zeiss have both, but then, they give up on autofocus, they're not very well sealed, and you're paying a huge premium.) Sigma, so far, have always gone with technical quality above all else. Conversely, the Canon 100mm f/2 is one of the leading examples of the value of rendering quality over technical quality. That lens may not win the resolution battle anymore, but for its common use as a portrait prime, it's exactly as sharp as it needs to be and not being sharp enough to show up every single pore—which will then have to be blurred out anyway—is a positive.

There may also be a slight framing difference. The Canon 100mm is actually about 108mm, while Sigma tends to go a little wider than their stated lengths—the 85mm is actually about 82mm and the 135mm is actually about 128mm—so I expect this 105 to actually be a straight 100mm. Those few millimeters don't mean as much to a telephoto lens as they do to a wide-angle, but it can still make a difference if working distance is tight.

All-in-all, I don't think these two lenses will really be in competition. The Sigma will most likely for be for those people who want absolute maximum background blur without the overly-compressed look of something like 200-300mm, and at f/2 and smaller it will probably be the winner for anybody who has to demand absolute technical perfection. The Canon 100mm f/2 will continue being the go-to 100mm for anybody who values size, values autofocus, or values... value. It will probably also continue being the #1 100mm choice for portrait shooters with expressive styles rather than gigantic-print, technical styles.

To put it another way: I have the Canon 100mm f/2. I also have the 100mm f/2.8L IS Macro, a Mamiya 110mm f/2 I use with an adapter, my 70-200s spend most of their time at 100mm, and I'm strongly considering buying the Laowa 105mm STF. My #1 complaint with Fuji is they still don't have a 100/105mm equivalent, and if I buy into Sony any more I'll definitely be picking up their 100mm STF. To say I like the 100mm focal length is an understatement, and each lens I have or have had in that length has had its own use.
It should be no surprise that this Sigma 105mm will have to really drop the ball for me to not pick one up, and I fully expect that, if I do buy one, it will find a specific use just as all my other ~100s have.
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Tamron to Announce 70-210mm f/4 Di VC USD

Generally speaking, on the 70-200 focal length, I prefer the f/2.8 despite the significant size/weight difference -- ironically not for the f/2.8, as I'll often stop down to f/4 anyways... but for the better/faster autofocus that a wider aperture affords.

There are many situations indoors when it's not as bright, and f/2.8 focuses noticeably more confidently than f/4, and for patio birding, if it's a bit overcast, f/2.8 makes a huge difference.

bsbeamer said:
My biggest issue with Tamron lenses is lack of in-camera lens corrections, or non-functional lens corrections, specifically peripheral illumination correction. The vignetting can be a problem with these lenses and is generally harder to fix with video (than shooting RAW and fixing in Lightroom/Photoshop).

I've always wondered about this, but I barely ever record videos, so I've never taken the time to research it.

The only video I've ever made on my 80D was of a heron "fishing" using a Sigma 150-600, the vignetting was, well, pretty much what you'd expect from an uncorrected telephoto (looks silly). Is there any way to correct this "automatically" in post?

bsbeamer said:
If Canon ever released a 24-70 F2.8 with IS, I would likely change everything over.

IIRC, the rumor is Canon is field testing two models of 24-70/2.8 IS :) I would purchase that lens in a heartbeat too.
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We're Going to be Waiting a While Longer for the Canon EF 600mm f/4 DO IS

Hector1970 said:
The 600 DO will be interesting. The 600 II is a great lens but boy is it big and heavy (lighter than the previous version but still a serious piece of kit).
I assume the DO makes it shorter but I wonder how much lighter.
The 600 II is a huge investment and to be honest probably not worth it
It draws attention and its always a worry that it would be damaged lost or stolen
A DO would do well if it were significantly cheaper but I doubt it will be.
The 600DO prototype was 31cm long and weighted 3.2Kg. So it weighted just as a 500II but it was 7cm shorter.
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Sigma Art Lenses Coming to Sony E-Mount->DSLR lens to MILC w/o adapter possible?

9VIII said:
Instead of going short flange Canon should just put a 42mm sensor in the EF mount.
Even if they can match Sony’s noise performance in the near future, “eventually” this will all come down to sensor size.
The EF mount is nearly as big as some Medium Format mounts, it’s destined to get a bigger sensor someday, they may as well make that sooner than later.

What's the point of this? you won't be able to use EF lenses to cover the full frame of the sensor, you might as well start with an entirely new mount.

Noise performance is only one issue. Speed is another, and going medium gives a big hit on this.
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Canon Patent Application: APS-C zoom lenses for compact cameras

crashpc said:
Wow that looks weak for the aperture range. I hope they made this to get rid of the stock of their old 18Mpx sensors in compact cameras...

Compact cameras currently use tiny sensors, or the high end ones use 1 inch sensors. The G1X MK III is the exception. It sounds like new powershots with APS-C are coming. Canon and other manufacturers are moving away from entry level compact cameras, expect FF to pop up one day.
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A7 III surfaces

Tugela said:
You mean all those consumers who will be buying large screen 4K TVs (as probably 95% of those who might buy a camera in this price range likely would, if they are in the market for a new TV) are going to be cool with something that shoots poor 4K? (and probably soft HD to boot)

Keep believing that.

People who shoot home video will want to watch that video on their new TV sets, and soft HD looks pretty terrible on a 65" 4K panel in comparison with 4K. They will see the difference immediately and will want proper 4K.

These aren't the customers for the M50, which is a LOW END mirrorless camera.
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Images and Specifications for the Canon EOS 2000D/EOS Rebel T7

Anyway... even though many like to bash the 2000D and 4000D... we have gone forward compared to the 1300D.

The 1300D had a 18 megapixel sensor. Now we have a 24 megapixel sensor in the 2000D (which is the 1300D successor). Nobody has a higher resolution APSC sensor than this (if we forget Samsung's 28 mpx sensor).
Or we can have the same 18 megapixel sensor in an even cheaper package than before... the 4000D.

Of course there is room for improvement... that's what next year's model will be :D
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Here is the USD Pricing for the EOS M50 & Speedlite 470EX-AI

john kriegsmann said:
This looks like an upgraded body from the M5: newer processor and upgraded video. Canon will have to reduce the price on the M5, it is not selling well anyway. Still the M series bodies are progressing but where are the lenses? Why would anyone invest 800-900 for a M body when they the native lens offerings are limited to F6.3 kit zooms? Canon is nuts if they think buyers will use DSRL EOS lenses on these tiny bodies, as it defeats the purpose of a small form factor. If Fuji can develop a whole series of rugged, well regarded fast lenses for the mirrorless cameras in a few years why can't Canon"
Fuji have to have a "complete" line up of lens in order to sell the camera. Also if look at the price and weight of the Fuji lenses, they are double of the EF-M lenses. After using the M for more than 3 year, I do not miss the weight of my Canon DSLR and the large and heavy L lenses. I enjoy the smaller size and lighter weight of the M system.
If canon start to make fast, big and heavy zoom, where will they fit in the M system?
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Canon Continues Leadership of DSLR Camera Market With A Dominating Performance at the Big Game in Mi

Re: Canon Continues Leadership of DSLR Camera Market With A Dominating Performance at the Big Game i

Talys said:
ethanz said:
Talys said:
I would point out that it isn't particularly strange that Canon isn't #1 in FF ILC sales. They haven't had a high end release since 5D Mark IV, and a lot of people who want and can afford a flagship Canon (which is a lot of FF people), have purchased at least one 1DXII and/or 5D Mark IV.

Except Canon was #1 in FF ILC sales for the whole year of 2017. Sony was #2 for only two months. Nikon was #1 for only one month.

Right, I should have been clear: It's not surprising that they weren't first for a couple of months, where Nikon and Sony both released new FF flagships.

At some point, D850 and A7RIII sales will taper, because those most eager to buy one will have done so.

Ok. And I do agree with your points.
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Trip to India - any advice?

Ladislav said:
  • I returned from India on Monday. It was an awesome trip with endless opportunities for photography.

    At the end I wasn't able to extend my trip and I excluded Varanasi just to not make it too stretched. My final itinerary was:
    • Day 1: Arriving to Delhi, taxi to Agra, Wedding reception
    • Day 2: Taj Mahal, Turmeric Ceremony for Wedding, Agra fort, Wedding
    • Day 3: (renting car and driver) Fatehpur Sikri, Mathura
    • Day 4: (renting car and driver) Mathura, Deeg Fort and Palace, Chand Baori (step well), arriving to Jaipur
    • Day 5: Jaipur -> Hawa Mahal, Jantar Mantar, City Palace, Isarlat Sargasooli, Jal Mahal, Galta Ji temples, The Sun temple, Albert Hall at night
    • Day 6: Jaipur -> Amber Fort, Panna Meena ka Kund (step well), Jaigarh Fort, Nahargarh Fort
    • Day 7: Taxi to Delhi, Hauz Khaz village in the evening and night stroll around India Gate
    • Day 8: Delhi -> Gurudwara Bangla Sahib, Jantar Mantar, Jama Masjid, Old Delhi bazaars and spice market, night stroll around Vijay Chowk
    • Day 9: Delhi -> Red Fort, Qutub Minar, Humayun's Tomb
    • Day 10: India Gate, Agrasen ki Baoli (step well), flight back

    There were few misses because of my poor planning - Lotus temple and Akshardham in Delhi were closed when I wanted to visit. The biggest disappointment was Red Fort in Delhi.

    I could definitely spend one more day in all locations I visited (Agra, Jaipur, Delhi and probably even Mathura). There was plenty more to see.

    While I like taking pictures of architecture, cityscapes and landscapes, most of pictures I took back are just snapshots of what was happening in the street or on the road. I also took quite lot of pictures of animals. I regretted that I didn't have longer lens for eagles flying around minarets in Delhi.

    Btw. I didn't use tripod at all. I was using just bean bag for night photography.

Glad you had a good time.
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Sigma Announces the 105mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Series Lens Development

Jim Saunders said:
Is it just me or does it look like the stock foot has an ARCA Swiss dovetail?

Jim

Yes that's a seriously nice feature and one that canon should wake up to.

My only two reservations with this lens, and on paper it looks amazing...is the old Sigma Achilles heel....focus accuracy.
Sigma seem to be pushing their lens design capability for a few years now with their ART range, but a common issue is their capability to design AF motors that can consistently and accurately focus with slim Depth of Field demands. So far there have been a lot of issues in that regard, If Sigma can't make a 35mm or 50mm f1.4 focus accurately...then what are they going to be like with an even more demanding lens like a 105mm f1.4?

How is it that Sigma can make a lens that is vastly larger, bulkier and heavier that the Nikon version? the Nikon version looks very much like a Canon 85mm f1.2 II L in terms of it's size, proportions and look. The Sigma looks like it was modelled on a 300mm f2.8 LIS!

The other observations is...where are all the idiot posts here on CR moaning about the lack of an image stabiliser? Isn't that the usual CR response to an ultra bright telephoto prime lens these days? Or is that just reserved for Canon lenses?
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Canon Announces the EOS Rebel 4000D, The Cheapest DSLR Ever? Will Come to North America as the EOS R

Re: Will Canon's strategy to counter smart phones be effective?

rsdofny said:
It appears to me that Canon has the impression of a clunky DSLR is the ultimate upgrade path for ordinary people. A more informed consumer will know that there are a lot more capable mirrorless camera. ala Sony A6X00s, comes in very, very small package. Personally, I think that Canon over-complicates its lineup to milk enough profit at the low end while preserving the profit margin at the high end camera. Will that strategy work in face of Sony's aggressive product introduction and slowly maturing lens lineup (including 3rd party)?

A few years ago I was eagerly awaiting a successor to the A6000, and I'm still waiting.
Same for the A5100.
All Sony has done since then is made even more expensive bodies. The A6000 is ancient and overpriced for what it does, Sony should have discontinued it and the A5300 years ago, even if just to refresh the user interface.
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Canon Inc. Boss Wants to See More Innovation

It seems to me that since the problems with the 1D M3 Canon has become much more conservative. Too bad. Their cutting edge products, 5Ds/R, are tepid. It seems they are afraid to push the envelop for fear of what? Eating their own lunch, someone is going to eat it, they don't, Nikon or Sony will? Of failing and having egg on their faces. They will need to handle the problems than they did with 1D3.
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Canon U.S.A. Builds on Success of the “One Canon” Strategy

HTML:
<p><strong>MELVILLE, N.Y., March 1, 2018</strong> – Canon U.S.A., Inc. a leader in digital imaging solutions, concluded its One Canon Event, held February 12-14 in Hollywood, Florida. The annual gathering of esteemed industry analysts and press commemorated the Company’s inclusive and inventive approaches to its diverse customers and the continued success of the One Canon business strategy. The exclusive event provided over 45 industry analysts and journalists the opportunity to engage with executive leaders, customers, and business partners, and hear about the Company’s strategic evolution to continue to help foster strong growth and performance drivers going forward.</p>
<p>Key executives updated guests on the impact the One Canon strategy is having on the company as a whole, while providing examples of successful One Canon collaborations positively affecting customers, partners, and the company’s dealer channel. Leaders from business units also gave guests an inside look into industry-leading products, service, and marketing programs that continue to differentiate Canon as a dynamic force in the print industry.</p>
<p><!--more--></p>
<p>One major highlight of the event was the announcement of the third generation imageRUNNER ADVANCE 2<sup>nd</sup> edition models, a refresh of the three-time BLI Line of the Year award-winning platform that will be available in spring 2018.</p>
<p>The launch features improvements that target three core needs of technology decision makers:</p>
<ul>
<li>Simplify – The power to streamline user workflows and ease the implementation and management of technology (Cloud-capabilities)</li>
</ul>
<ul>
<li>Control – The power to take command of costs, manage print usage and implement a secure solution (New levels of security)</li>
<li>Evolve – The power to expand capabilities and stay ahead of change (Continuous improvement)</li>
</ul>
<p>“This is our second year celebrating the One Canon strategy, a customer-first principle which represents our inclusive approach toward delivering integrated solutions offerings based on innovation, possibility and smart solutions,” said Toyotsugu Kuwamura, executive vice president and general manager, Business Imaging Solutions Group, Canon U.S.A., Inc. “By coming together across the Canon Family of companies and working side by side with our customers and channel partners, we continue to seek new and inventive ways to drive change in the industry.”</p>
<p>During the two-day event, guests not only attended executive presentations, but were given the opportunity to hear directly from Canon customers and partners during the event’s “Successful Solutions” session that gave unique insight into how the company continues to collaborate and focus on forward-thinking innovation.</p>
<p>Representatives from Mount Ida College, Pixelwerx, Southwestern Blueprint, and Arna Marketing enhanced the conversation by participating in on-stage interviews where they each had the opportunity to share their unique perspective on the Canon approach and how it helps advance their organizations. In addition, following the success of Canon’s dealer relations portion, which included dynamic interviews with key partners, the company again reiterated its commitment to establishing strong partnerships with independent dealers by inviting Ryan Jones from American Business Machines and his customer, Borden Newman from Editorial Renuevo to speak alongside BISG senior vice president and general manager, Mason Olds.</p>
<p>“Mount Ida College may be considered small compared to other institutions, but Canon has always made us feel that we are as important to them as anyone else would be,” said Jill Abrahams, vice president for Advancement at Mount Ida College. “We were thrilled to be asked to participate in this event, and look forward to continue working side-by-side with Canon on future initiatives.”</p>
<p>Abrahams was joined on stage by her colleague Jason Donati, Dean at Mount Ida College, who added, “Our alliance with Canon has enriched many of our student programs, with tangible items such as providing high quality cameras and printers, to participating in our business entrepreneur event, to supporting other key initiatives of our school. We were delighted to be able to present this unique relationship to the media through the One Canon Event.”</p>
<p>The event included a landmark announcement from Canon Solutions America on the advancement to its security offerings. Pete Kowalczuk, president of Canon Solutions America, detailed the far-reaching enhancements during a presentation that included Carlos Fernandes, CEO, Agile Cybersecurity Solutions, and Ajay Arora, CEO of Vera, the company’s new security partners. To learn more about those partnerships, visit <a href="https://csa.canon.com/online/portal/csa/csa/company/pressreleases" target="blank"><strong>here</strong></a>.</p>
<p>For more information on products and solutions launched at the event please visit the Canon <a href="https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/about/newsroom/press-releases" target="blank"><strong>newsroom</strong></a>.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>

Leaked: Canon EOS M50 Image & Specifications

dak723 said:
Quarkcharmed said:
dak723 said:
Ha Ha Ha! I guess I will have to give a refund to all those folks that bought 8" x 12" prints taken with my 6 MP 300D! Those prints, by the way, are indistinguishable from the prints made with my 20 MP 6D. Always fun to see someone so wrong as they try so hard to make a point.

Prints of what DPI? say 300DPI, 8*300*12*300 = 8640000, it's 8.6MP, a bit larger than 6MP, but well within the capacity of the 6D.

If you print at 150DPI (which in my opinion is too low for 8x12 prints), then yes the prints will look roughly the same.

8" x 12" prints from my old 6 MP Digital Rebel were about 250 ppi, which as Talys mentions is plenty good enough. And as he also mentions, if you want to go bigger, than, of course, 20 MP is better.

In fact, with my 6 MP rebel, I could get excellent quality prints printing as low as 180 ppi. I have a cropped pic that's approx. 3.2 MP (2046 x 1536) printed to approx. 8.5 x 11. The larger pixels seemed to make it possible to print at a lower ppi and still get really good results. When I got an 18 MP camera a few years ago, I felt that somewhere around 220-240 ppi was as low as I could go to make a sharp print. Of course, now we will hear how the size of the pixels doesn't matter. Well, maybe not always, but in my experience with the cameras I have had - it does.

Sorry I'm guilty of mixing up dpi vs ppi. Yes I meant ppi of course.

I'm a pixel-peeper and also short-sighted so usually examine the prints closely, 240ppi doesn't feel enough for an A4-sized print. I.e. 240 may be fine if you hang it on the wall, but I'm not sure about putting it into an album where people would see it at a close proximity.

As to your experience with large vs small sensor pixels, this post http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=34536.msg710338#msg710338 is a good illustration, the image looks ok downscaled but evidently blurred at full res, and it's not a focus issue. That is, 6MP camera doesn't necessarily do 6 actual megapixels, neither does 18MP camera. It depends on multiple conditions, including the lens quality and how the image is processed in camera and how noisy it is.
Still 18MP should be better than 6MP (literally 3 times better) in most cases, I don't know why you experienced the opposite.
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Canon ff mirrorless - where will it fit in the line up?

bwud said:
mjg79 said:
For one thing look at a Sony A7 with a 24-70/2.8 lens - it's not only a bigger package than a 5D with 24-70L

A Sony 24-70 2.8 GM on an A7 slightly [perhaps: insignificantly] longer overall package than the (newest) Canon 24-70 2.8 L II mounted to a 5D, but the package is not bigger overall.

I don’t quite follow why people seemingly assume that Sony’s first attempt at full frame lenses for its mirrorless mount represents anything other than that: Sony’s first attempt. It has little bearing on how canon might design a shorter flange lens. Additionally, like Canon is often able to make things smaller (my 24-70 2.8L is longer and heavier than the current II model, and makes for a longer package than the a7+GM), so might be Sony with a version II.

That said, I agree with the potential for re-purposing EF for mixed used as described.

True, I should have been more clear what I meant, I wasn't really trying to argue a very specific point about the 24-70GM lens more I was trying to say that when it comes to fast aperture, full frame lenses with a focal length greater than 24-35mm there isn't any reason to assume the lenses are going to be *dramatically* smaller with a shorter flange distance so I picked one that is bigger just to illustrate it (and yes you're correct the overall package was the wrong term, I meant that it is longer overall - albeit only slightly).

You're quite right, it's possible Sony will refine it and make it smaller in coming years. I think many had assumed however, when the A7 first came out, that we would be seeing the benefits seen in for example the Loxia 21mm/2.8 replicated across the spectrum and would be able to get very small 85/1.4, 24-70/2.8 and 70-200/2.8 lenses. I don't believe we will get an FE mount 24-70/2.8, for example, that is half the size of the current one.

I think the belief that the lenses would get dramatically smaller underpins many of the arguments that Canon must abandon the EF mount and I think the picture is more complicated than that.

Whatever happens I am very happy that the market is heating up in terms of cameras, formats and lenses from so many manufacturers; I think Canon will fight back hard in the coming years.
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