Canon to Surprise With New Mirrorless Camera

[switters]

After a year of shooting with both my 5DIII + L lenses (which I've had for several years) and a Fujifilm X-T1 and several of their excellent primes and fast zooms, I finally sold my 5DIII.

I learned that the IQ in the APS-C X-T1 is perfectly sufficient for what I do, and I much prefer the size/weight of the X-T1 kit to the 5DIII.

I would not be interested in a FF mirrorless from Canon, since the lenses would still be huge. One of the main reasons people switch to mirrorless IMO is because of the size.

 

[3kramd5]

EVF is tiny, so it doesn't take much juice. Also if the main display is oled, it'll consume less power in most cases. So there's couple ways to mitigate around that. So I don't need perfect camera, but close to perfect would be nice

But the sensor has to be read out and the signal processed continually to feed the display.

Oh, and FWIW, on my mirrorless camera (A7R2), the tiny EVF uses power faster than the rear monitor (according to the manual, anyway - I've never attempted to verify that).

 

[3kramd5]

Ideally the same sensor as the A7R II with menus and controls that make sense.

I would sell my A7R II instantly if this camera was announced.

I'll take it off your hands. My A7R II could use a backup

Out of curiosity, what part of the menus don't make sense? I only really need to access a handful of things in the menus with any regularity:
1) Format
2) Display setting effect (I usually have it 'on' to show the exposure, unless I'm shooting with strobes in which case it's typically too dark)
3) Raw type (to toggle uncompressed when appropriate)
4&5) Airplane Mode and Send to Smartphone

With custom buttons and the custom menu, all shooting functions I use (and some I don't) are accessible outside of the menus. I still wish it had a dedicated tool to select focus points, but other than that I've learned the controls and don't find it lacking relative to my Canon's (and it's a hell of a lot better than my Nikon).

a number of things, here are 2 that bothered this week - may be i have yet to fully understand /utilize the camera,

1. how do I move focus points around?
2. How do I go into "live view" and move around on the screen to check critical focus

Rich

Here's how I do it:

1) There are several ways to kick off point selection. The best, IMO, is called Focus Settings. If you press it, you can immediately start pressing the four directional buttons to move the AF point around. By rolling the wheel, you can change the AF point type. (Click once to enable point selection).

Similar to Focus Settings is Focus Area. Focus area would be my preference because while in it, rolling the wheel allows you to change the size of the AF area directly rather than through the menu that appears in Focus Settings. However, Focus Area requires you to select the AF point type before selecting the point, so there is an additional click involved. (Click twice to enable point selection).

I currently have the center button mapped to Focus Settings.

2) The camera is always in live view mode. I presume you're asking how to zoom in to check focus. The function is called Focus Magnifier. I use it frequently, and it is mapped to C1 (the button behind and to the right of the shutter release). Press it once to enable the mode, a second time to zoom 5x, and a third to zoom 12x.

Once you are in Focus Magnify, you can use the directional pad to scroll around the screen.


The requirement to be in either manual focus mode or DMF in order to manually focus or zoom the screen is silly. I would much prefer sony enable full time manual focus. I imagine it has to do with the fly by wire system, but DMF shows that they can overcome it. DMF is a reasonable tool using adapted lenses, but for native glass, AFC is significantly better, and I won't give it up in order to have DMF (hence my mapping of a button to MF mode).


Hope that answered your questions. If not, let me know.

 

[StudentOfLight]

I'd be more interested in seeing a substantial and durable mirrorless camera:

 

[3kramd5]

I'd be more interested in seeing a substantial and durable mirrorless camera:

What do you want 12-bit raw for?

 

[StudentOfLight]

I'd be more interested in seeing a substantial and durable mirrorless camera:

What do you want 12-bit raw for?

Better buffer at high ISO when you have less than 12 stops of DR.

 

[3kramd5]

I'd think that for 25.6MP 14-bit RAW, you'd have file sizes of about 30MB.

A fast XQD card should be able to handle that at 12FPS, no? You'd likely never fill a buffer.

 

[nhz]

Could the surprise be another lame mirrorless camera?

How would that be a surprise? ;-(

Anyway, I agree with some others that if they are going to make bigger changes in their camera lines, some kind of SL1 replacement with EVF instead of OVF and mirror box is the most likely product now. That camera is ripe for replacement, it would be a good platform to test the new technologies and customer acceptance (EVF, power use, AF performance, lens compatibility etc.) and the potential market is much bigger than for a 'pro' FF mirrorless camera.

If the performance is good enough it will probably be priced significantly higher than EOS-M ($1000-1500?) to prevent cannibalizing EOS-M sales, or it could be less capable and crippled by e.g. having only EF-S mount so no option to use the more compact EOS-M lenses. Interesting times for sure, but as mentioned before I'm not holding my breath. I hope Canon proves me wrong though ;-)

 

[9VIII]

After a year of shooting with both my 5DIII + L lenses (which I've had for several years) and a Fujifilm X-T1 and several of their excellent primes and fast zooms, I finally sold my 5DIII.

I learned that the IQ in the APS-C X-T1 is perfectly sufficient for what I do, and I much prefer the size/weight of the X-T1 kit to the 5DIII.

I would not be interested in a FF mirrorless from Canon, since the lenses would still be huge. One of the main reasons people switch to mirrorless IMO is because of the size.

I think it's still slightly misinformed to say that full frame lenses are larger. I have read comments from a few representatives that the crop versions of various lenses are smaller, but we also have stuff like the 40mm Pancake that is a very sharp lens on full frame, and it's a Pancake.
It seems like a size advantage can potentially be had, but I've never seen a technical reason for this. Exactly what characteristics can be shrunk seems like a bit of a mystery.

As far as crop sensor IQ goes, yes the IQ is great. After letting shots sit in my camera for a month I finally downloaded them yesterday and the detail off of an old 12MP sensor is still surprising.
What you lose is IQ in low light, some wide angle ability, and thin depth of field.
Fuji seems to be doing a good job mitigating this with lenses though. The Fujinon 56f1.2 is as good as any portrait lens ever made, and rumor has it they're working on a 33mm f1.0 lens. If you can make fast, sharp lenses for a crop body then it weakens or potentially negates the advanteges of full frame.
My Sigma 18-35f1.8 Art is another great example. Maybe it's only "as good" as having a regular full frame zoom lens, but the characteristics of the 18-35A are very good. And even if the 18-35A is a bit large, and not necessarily "inexpensive", the equivalent body+lens combo on Full Frame would cost more than twice as much.

 

[sunnyVan]

It's probably better to have no expectations and be surprised rather than have high expectations and be disappointed. I'm saving all the excitements til a product announcement is made.

 

[StudentOfLight]

I'd think that for 25.6MP 14-bit RAW, you'd have file sizes of about 30MB.

A fast XQD card should be able to handle that at 12FPS, no? You'd likely never fill a buffer.

With my 5D-III (22MP) I get CR2 files that are larger than 35MB when shooting at high ISO (e.g. higher than ISO 3200). If you're shooting at low ISO you get smaller files.

TDP has a table which is in the 5D-III review: http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-III-DSLR-Camera-Review.aspx

Note that those numbers refer to a set scene. File sizes vary based on scene detail as well as ISO and camera temperature etc...

A 26MP camera will likely give files larger than 30MB maybe even 40MB at for example ISO 6400.

The other side of the argument is that it 12-bit will result in a smaller file. So it will take up less space on your card(s). New fast cards will be expensive so if you don't need 14-bit and 12-bit will do then why not have your card capable to store 15% more images?

 

[rrcphoto]

It's probably better to have no expectations and be surprised rather than having high expectations and be disappointed. I'm saving all the excitements til a product announcement is made.

I'm the same.

frankly - the A7 series cameras are not selling well against other full frame cameras, so I can't see canon deciding this this the way they need to go. they need a kickass 5d Mark IV that can use the DC-EVF1 on the hotshoe, and good 4K and everyone will be .. A7 what?

the M is small, light and economic and from all accounts is selling well in Japan. I can't see canon switching from that model any time soon.

Their goal was #1 in domestic sales by the end of this year.

a pro / enthusiast grade M model will NOT do that in Japan.

this is a Japan company, not a NA company. why people think they'll release a camera just suited for NA clientele is beyond me.

That being said - I could see them make a G5X Frankenstein model. I could see them also going retro and making an AE-1 or a canonet or a T90 like model.

I can't see them doing anything larger than APS-C because that simply is not selling domestically.

as sensors get better and better, smaller cameras are making that much more sense from the optical standpoint if you wish to keep things small.

 

[Maiaibing]

frankly - the A7 series cameras are not selling well against other full frame cameras

...the M is small, light and economic and from all accounts is selling well in Japan

Where did you find numbers?

as sensors get better and better, smaller cameras are making that much more sense from the optical standpoint if you wish to keep things small.

Could still make sense if you want people to stop buying the competition to use with their FF Canon lenses.

 

[ashmadux]

Great. This M3 is going back to the shop tomorrow.

Super disappointing. Takes extra effort to get sharp photos, i haven't seen this nonsense since the 7D AF debacle i went through. Overwhelming majority of images are not sharp, and the heavy shutter slap is the main suspect.

Ah well, so glad i bought my little pocket monster- the M1 - has treated me well for years now. WITHOUT powershot firmware. Sheesh.

 

[sunnyVan]

It's probably better to have no expectations and be surprised rather than having high expectations and be disappointed. I'm saving all the excitements til a product announcement is made.

I'm the same.

frankly - the A7 series cameras are not selling well against other full frame cameras, so I can't see canon deciding this this the way they need to go. they need a kickass 5d Mark IV that can use the DC-EVF1 on the hotshoe, and good 4K and everyone will be .. A7 what?

the M is small, light and economic and from all accounts is selling well in Japan. I can't see canon switching from that model any time soon.

Their goal was #1 in domestic sales by the end of this year.

a pro / enthusiast grade M model will NOT do that in Japan.

this is a Japan company, not a NA company. why people think they'll release a camera just suited for NA clientele is beyond me.

That being said - I could see them make a G5X Frankenstein model. I could see them also going retro and making an AE-1 or a canonet or a T90 like model.

I can't see them doing anything larger than APS-C because that simply is not selling domestically.

as sensors get better and better, smaller cameras are making that much more sense from the optical standpoint if you wish to keep things small.

I think the possibility of Canon releasing a full frame mirrorless is slimmer than Donald Trump becoming the president. But what do I know? Maybe both will become a reality in 2016. It's an odd year.

 

[rrcphoto]

Where did you find numbers?

BCN for japan. E-PL's are selling well in Japan, nikon 1 even, M's are selling well. I don't even think A7 series makes the top 50 ILC's.

The Japan market is very price AND brand conscious.

you can get the raw data here for monthly data:
http://bcnranking.jp/category/subcategory_0008_month.html

for weekly data, an easier source is here:

http://dslrphoto.com/dslr/space.php?do=jranking

another interesting source is:
http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/bestsellers/electronics/3946818051/ref=zg_bs_nav_e_4_387455011

 

[rrcphoto]

Great. This M3 is going back to the shop tomorrow.

Super disappointing. Takes extra effort to get sharp photos, i haven't seen this nonsense since the 7D AF debacle i went through. Overwhelming majority of images are not sharp, and the heavy shutter slap is the main suspect.

Ah well, so glad i bought my little pocket monster- the M1 - has treated me well for years now. WITHOUT powershot firmware. Sheesh.

what lenses are you using? I've never had a problem with the M3.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Where did you find numbers?

BCN for japan. E-PL's are selling well in Japan, nikon 1 even, M's are selling well. I don't even think A7 series makes the top 50 ILC's.

The Japan market is very price AND brand conscious.

you can get the raw data here for monthly data:
http://bcnranking.jp/category/subcategory_0008_month.html

for weekly data, an easier source is here:

http://dslrphoto.com/dslr/space.php?do=jranking

another interesting source is:
http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/bestsellers/electronics/3946818051/ref=zg_bs_nav_e_4_387455011

Its interesting that you can apply filters to be able to compare say FF cameras. The Sony a7II is number 4, right after the 6D, 5D MK III, and D750.

For APS-C sensors, from top down, we see Kiss X7, D5500, Kiss X8i, D3300, D5300, a6000, EOS M3

I've removed duplicates that have options such as colors or kit lenses. If combined, they might change the ranking slightly. Basically, its Canon and Nikon dominating Japan sales.

 

[RGF]

Ideally the same sensor as the A7R II with menus and controls that make sense.

I would sell my A7R II instantly if this camera was announced.

I'll take it off your hands. My A7R II could use a backup

Out of curiosity, what part of the menus don't make sense? I only really need to access a handful of things in the menus with any regularity:
1) Format
2) Display setting effect (I usually have it 'on' to show the exposure, unless I'm shooting with strobes in which case it's typically too dark)
3) Raw type (to toggle uncompressed when appropriate)
4&5) Airplane Mode and Send to Smartphone

With custom buttons and the custom menu, all shooting functions I use (and some I don't) are accessible outside of the menus. I still wish it had a dedicated tool to select focus points, but other than that I've learned the controls and don't find it lacking relative to my Canon's (and it's a hell of a lot better than my Nikon).

a number of things, here are 2 that bothered this week - may be i have yet to fully understand /utilize the camera,

1. how do I move focus points around?
2. How do I go into "live view" and move around on the screen to check critical focus

Rich

I assume you are asking about the Sony?

Moving focus points around is pretty straight forward. You just program a button, in my case the Center button, and click twice then click the four point dial where you want to move the focus point. Pretty simple.

Manual Focus Assist handles this with easy. As soon as you MF it magnifies automatically then you just click the controls wheel where you want it to go. It is a breeze on the Sony.

I have one foot in Canon and one in Sony. I use Canon for sports only now. Everything else is a Sony and I can use my Canon glass and do with great success. Canon should offer a smaller 5Diii body that is mirrorless with EVF and a Sony Sensor. Would be awesome.

What pushed me to Sony was the sensor.

Thanks I will need to spend some time programming the buttons.

BTW I use a metabones adapter with my canon lenses

 

[dickgrafixstop]

My biggest surprise would be a competitive offering, complete with EVF, fast autofocus and rugged construction. I don't need a new lens mount, limited new lens offerings or for that matter any video functions. If Canon mirrorless requires all that, I can go buy a Fuji XT1 with it's excellent lenses and be equipped tomorrow. After three false starts, the biggest surprise would be something that actually competes.