Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

[hne]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

Nikon RAW files do not use a floating black point, Canon RAW files do, in these 'tests' you have to adjust the black point to not clip first, then you have a playing field closer to level.

This is more important than people might first think.

More information on the topic is available at Mr Clark's informative web pages: http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/canon.raw.processing1

 

[tron]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

(Canon makes no money on S/H cams)

While that is the general sentiment on this forum that's not entirely true. While Canon does not directly make money on any 2nd hand sale, often folks who sell something used are doing so because they have purchased something new. So when you see a 2nd hand 5D3, there is a solid chance the seller may have purchased a 5D4 to replace it. Furthermore, that 2nd hand sale just might be bringing a new customer into the Canon system, which may lead to lens purchases, new bodies in the future.

Looking at a more macro level, all Canon purchases (lenses included), whether on primary or secondary markets are creating a market, and therefore overall demand for Canon products which drives their business.

+1 Very true.

 

[tomscott]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

Nikon RAW files do not use a floating black point, Canon RAW files do, in these 'tests' you have to adjust the black point to not clip first, then you have a playing field closer to level.

This is more important than people might first think.

More information on the topic is available at Mr Clark's informative web pages: http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/canon.raw.processing1

Hell of a lot more effort with results in all honesty not really being much better.

The thing is that scene is pretty static so why you wouldnt make a bracket is just silly albeit not as convenient but even the best DR cameras would struggle with this scene.

 

[meho1a]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

(Canon makes no money on S/H cams)

While that is the general sentiment on this forum that's not entirely true. While Canon does not directly make money on any 2nd hand sale, often folks who sell something used are doing so because they have purchased something new. So when you see a 2nd hand 5D3, there is a solid chance the seller may have purchased a 5D4 to replace it. Furthermore, that 2nd hand sale just might be bringing a new customer into the Canon system, which may lead to lens purchases, new bodies in the future.

Looking at a more macro level, all Canon purchases (lenses included), whether on primary or secondary markets are creating a market, and therefore overall demand for Canon products which drives their business.

+1 Very true.

I also think that good second hand market invites people into their system. At the moment Sony makes more "moderen" cameras and good lenses, also fuji makes great stuff but pearsonaly I would rather stay with Canon since I can easily get some great lens for smaller bucks.
Sony and fuji lenses will sell in used market only after few updates, which could be very long time. So why not to
take advantage of used lenses to invite people into your system.

 

[albron00]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

Already moved to Sony.

 

[SecureGSM]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

just finished a quick sharpness test over 6D, 6DII and 5D III files.

I posted results here:

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=33003.msg676608#msg676608

 

[tron]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

Nikon RAW files do not use a floating black point, Canon RAW files do, in these 'tests' you have to adjust the black point to not clip first, then you have a playing field closer to level.

This is more important than people might first think.

More information on the topic is available at Mr Clark's informative web pages: http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/canon.raw.processing1

Many thanks to both of you for this information. It reminded me of my doing something (rather naive compared to that article's methods): In cases I had shadows to lift I was trying to do it with anything but the shadows slider (mainly moving exposure to the right and highlights to the left). The result was a little cleaner shadows (without knowing any underlying theory though...)

 

[unfocused]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

(Canon makes no money on S/H cams)

While that is the general sentiment on this forum that's not entirely true. ...whether on primary or secondary markets are creating a market, and therefore overall demand for Canon products which drives their business.

+1 Very true.

I also think that good second hand market invites people into their system... So why not to
take advantage of used lenses to invite people into your system.

The above comments are certainly correct, but more to the point, I'd like to put this whole "Canon is releasing X to kill second-hand sales of Y" to rest.

No business is going to release any product to compete with or "kill" second hand sales. For one reason, it is an impossibility that is doomed to failure. A new product has a price floor. That is, it cannot be sold below a set price without creating a loss. Second hand goods have no price floor. They can be sold for effectively zero. So to try to "dry up" or "kill" the second hard market is impossible. No matter how low you sell your product for, the people selling second hand goods can always go lower, because they don't have to pay any costs and are only seeking to recoup some of the money they have already spent.

In addition, you can't "kill" the second hand market because the supply is already set. There are already X number of used cameras (for example) in existence and eventually they will all either find their way to the second hand market or the junkyard. No one is making new batches of second-hand cameras. It's not like a business can "dry up" that supply, the supply is essentially fixed and it is whatever it is.

Let's look at how this might work in the real world. I buy a 1DX II and decide to sell my 5DIII. Let's pretend that 5DIII is competing against a brand-spanking new 6DII. If I can't sell the 5DIII for $1,800 what do I do? I lower the price. I have in my mind a price that is the lowest I want to go and so long as the market offers me at least that much I will sell it, whether it is $1,500 or $1,000. If the price in the market gets too low ($200) I might instead just give it away to a son-in-law (It's still being sold on the second-hand market, the price is just $0 or maybe a six pack of beer).

How is Canon ever going to "kill" that market? They can't. This is just a fantasy that some people have.

 

[BillB]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

Like many others, I have been thinking about the 6DII in comparison to FF alternatives, and the pluses for the 6DII seem to be price (in comparison to the 5DIV) and buying new (in comparison the 5DIII), along with joining or staying in the Canon system (in comparison to other brands). It is hard for me to see a performance edge for the 6DII in comparison to any FF alternative, at least from what we know now.

But what about the comparison to the 80D and other crop cameras? The 6DII isn't going to have an IQ advantage over the 80D and other crops except at higher ISO levels. There will also be the FF advantage of using EF lenses at there "real" focal length. For me, using a 16-35 f4 as an UWA is a pretty big deal.

With an articulated screen and touchscreen focussing, the 6DII may attract buyers interested in video (excepting of course the 4K crowd). The 80D has these features too, but the 6DII could have the low light video edge with the FF sensor. Not my niche, but I don't go to that many children's birthday parties these days.

 

[Mikehit]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

People keep on quoting the 80D as a serious alternative to the 6D2. And it is - not denying that.

But if you take the same photo with both bodies (changing lens to get the same framing) at what point does the different sensor size override the greater DR of the 80D? They both have the same number of pixels on the subject (give or take a few) but with the 80D they become more dispersed because of the greater magnification.

 

[BillB]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

People keep on quoting the 80D as a serious alternative to the 6D2. And it is - not denying that.

But if you take the same photo with both bodies (changing lens to get the same framing) at what point does the different sensor size override the greater DR of the 80D? They both have the same number of pixels on the subject (give or take a few) but with the 80D they become more dispersed because of the greater magnification.

Three variables would be the contrast in the image, the ISO used and the size of the print. Up to a print size of at least 12x18, I would guess it would be hard to tell the difference except possibly at high ISO's (advantage FF) or if there was some serious shadow lifting (advantage 80D).

 

[jmoya]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

I've seen the reviews and dynamic range tests on the link provided. How is it that the canon 6d mark II has more/worse noise than the 6d mark I. I was hoping for atleast good shadow recovery since the reports and news surrounding this have been " This is stills camera not a video camera and this is why there is no 4k." This is a huge let down. My old canon 5d III with is's old processor still has better noise control than the 6d mark II. I've preordered this camera already and the anticipation of it's arrival just keeps getting more anti climatic by the day.

 

[scyrene]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

AF: I used sigma art and Metabone adaptor. The accuracy and speed was enough for me

You've said this a couple of times. It's absolutely fine, but why can't you accept that for many others, Canon's DR is enough for them? Different people have different tolerances for different things.

 

[Luds34]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

(Canon makes no money on S/H cams)

While that is the general sentiment on this forum that's not entirely true. ...whether on primary or secondary markets are creating a market, and therefore overall demand for Canon products which drives their business.

+1 Very true.

I also think that good second hand market invites people into their system... So why not to
take advantage of used lenses to invite people into your system.

The above comments are certainly correct, but more to the point, I'd like to put this whole "Canon is releasing X to kill second-hand sales of Y" to rest.

No business is going to release any product to compete with or "kill" second hand sales. For one reason, it is an impossibility that is doomed to failure. A new product has a price floor. That is, it cannot be sold below a set price without creating a loss. Second hand goods have no price floor. They can be sold for effectively zero. So to try to "dry up" or "kill" the second hard market is impossible. No matter how low you sell your product for, the people selling second hand goods can always go lower, because they don't have to pay any costs and are only seeking to recoup some of the money they have already spent.

In addition, you can't "kill" the second hand market because the supply is already set. There are already X number of used cameras (for example) in existence and eventually they will all either find their way to the second hand market or the junkyard. No one is making new batches of second-hand cameras. It's not like a business can "dry up" that supply, the supply is essentially fixed and it is whatever it is.

Let's look at how this might work in the real world. I buy a 1DX II and decide to sell my 5DIII. Let's pretend that 5DIII is competing against a brand-spanking new 6DII. If I can't sell the 5DIII for $1,800 what do I do? I lower the price. I have in my mind a price that is the lowest I want to go and so long as the market offers me at least that much I will sell it, whether it is $1,500 or $1,000. If the price in the market gets too low ($200) I might instead just give it away to a son-in-law (It's still being sold on the second-hand market, the price is just $0 or maybe a six pack of beer).

How is Canon ever going to "kill" that market? They can't. This is just a fantasy that some people have.

I agree.

I'm not 1DX material so I'm going to stick with the hot trending camera and use the 6D2 and 5D3. I think many would agree those two cameras probably compete a bit in terms of capabilities, price and will both be attractive to the same buyer.

The over simplification of the economics is that every buyer who purchases a 2nd hand 5D3 just means someone else ends up purchasing a new 6D2. Every buyer who grabs a 5D3 on the secondary market helps maintain that price point, a price point that pushes enough other buyers into paying full retail for a 6D2.

Let's simplify the model and make it small, think some local market, let's continue unfocused thinking and use craigslist. Let's say there are a number of 5D3's available on CL. The potential 6D2/5D3 buyer we speak of comes in a spectrum, some preferring the 5D vs the 6D, all price conscience of course. So those who feel the 5D3 serves them better (for the price) will go after those 2nd 5D3's and "bring a balance to the force". Now what happens if you remove too many of these potential buyers? You know, these guys that buy 2nd hand cameras that have "zero" benefit to Canon. Well, as unfocused said, that lack of demand can cause the craigslist sellers to have to discount there 5D3 cameras even more. Then all of a sudden the price of these 5D3s reaches a point that is low enough that it starts to entice those "I'm more of a 6D2" type buyer. They ideally liked the 6D2 better for their needs. But the 5D3 on the secondary market has dropped to a price that they just can't justify the full $2k for a 6D2 and that is a lost new sale to Canon as this user now picks up the 5D3 that would have been picked up from the "removed potential 5D3 buyer" in our model.

In short, buyers of used Canon equipment determine the price of what this equipment goes for on the secondary market. This secondary market of used equipment competes directly against the market of new equipment. A weak secondary market with low demand and therefore low prices steal buyers away from the new equipment. And therefore drives down retails prices to make the new equipment competitive and to move inventory.

So the next time someone says, "Canon makes zero money from a used sale" you might want to ask that individual to think about it a little more. Like most things in this world, it is rarely black or white.

 

[Tangent]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

With my left brain I am thinking, OK, I will just wait for a deal down the road and wind up with the 6DmkII. With my right brain I am googling "switched to Sony from Canon."

Here for example: https://www.phototraces.com/photography-reviews/sony-a6000-review/ But there is a ton of information out there. The A7 III is a FF body rumored to be coming this fall, roughly same price point as the 6D mkII. The Sony lens choice is getting better... Many things to consider.

With the 6DmkII sensor performance Canon has given me a shove to the edge of the creek bank. Fool around on the edge of the bank and you just might fall in. :

 

[SecureGSM]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

give your right brain a fair crack of the whip, but not immediately though ... re-consider in 2 years from now we might not be able to resist Sony's FF MILC hotness by then, all the facts considered.. or... Canon FF mirrorless EF mount equipped camera will support your left brain motivations

With my left brain I am thinking, OK, I will just wait for a deal down the road and wind up with the 6DmkII. With my right brain I am googling "switched to Sony from Canon."

Here for example: https://www.phototraces.com/photography-reviews/sony-a6000-review/ But there is a ton of information out there. The A7 III is a FF body rumored to be coming this fall, roughly same price point as the 6D mkII. The Sony lens choice is getting better... Many things to consider.

With the 6DmkII sensor performance Canon has given me a shove to the edge of the creek bank. Fool around on the edge of the bank and you just might fall in. :

 

[Pippan]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

People keep on quoting the 80D as a serious alternative to the 6D2. And it is - not denying that.

But if you take the same photo with both bodies (changing lens to get the same framing) at what point does the different sensor size override the greater DR of the 80D? They both have the same number of pixels on the subject (give or take a few) but with the 80D they become more dispersed because of the greater magnification.

Three variables would be the contrast in the image, the ISO used and the size of the print. Up to a print size of at least 12x18, I would guess it would be hard to tell the difference except possibly at high ISO's (advantage FF) or if there was some serious shadow lifting (advantage 80D).

If there were some serious shadow lifting up to ISO 200. Beyond that it's advantage FF.

 

[Cthulhu]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

A very big shame on Canon.
Canon must get rid of the responsible idiots who are designing these new horrible cameras and making Canon hopefuls and fans very angry and disappointed.
I am very disappointed in Canon.

You mean the same idiots who designed the cameras that have kept Canon the ILC market leader for 14+ years? Yeah, that'll happen… :

Canon has been on the record that is has different teams working on different bodies. The team that design the 6d2 might have nothing to do with the team(s) that designed any previous body.

I also love how people throw Canon's profitability and commercial success as a "pro" in choosing a camera, as if they're shareholders. None of that will help your images.

 

[Confused Man]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

With my left brain I am thinking, OK, I will just wait for a deal down the road and wind up with the 6DmkII. With my right brain I am googling "switched to Sony from Canon."

Here for example: https://www.phototraces.com/photography-reviews/sony-a6000-review/ But there is a ton of information out there. The A7 III is a FF body rumored to be coming this fall, roughly same price point as the 6D mkII. The Sony lens choice is getting better... Many things to consider.

With the 6DmkII sensor performance Canon has given me a shove to the edge of the creek bank. Fool around on the edge of the bank and you just might fall in. :

I agree with your right brain, and I'm in a bit of a dilemma because there is a reputable shop in the U.K. selling the Sony A7R for £899.

This is not forum bravado - Canon is loosing sales because of its decision to give the 6D Mkii poor DR. I have a friend who owns a 6D and was all set to buy the Mkii but due to the DR issue he is now keeping his money. The point he made is that he is a hobby photographer who can not justify the expense of a 5D Mkiv but he will not spend his money on the 6D Mkii which does not give an uplift in image quality (except of course for the higher mega pixels.)

I own a 7D Mkii and am extremely pleased will the cameras performance (yes I can confirm the AF ability of this camera is excellent.) However I am finding that more and more I am using this camera for travel and landscape photography and am getting a little frustrated with the crop factor and poor choice of APS-C wide angle lenses (I own the EF-S 10-18mm lens and whilst it's very cheap I'm not loving the image quality.) I was therefore considering switching to the 6D Mkii but due to the poor DR I'm not going to bother.

This brings me back to the Sony dilemma. I now can't decide between a Sony A7R (and Sigma converter) as a second camera for landscape and travel with my EF 24-105mm L lens or buying the EF 16-35mm F4 L lens. Whilst I know the EF 16-35mm lens is the cheaper option, it's only a little cheaper when you consider that having the A7R would open up far more possibilities for me ............ like I say this is not bravado I might be buying the A7R because of Canon's (in my opinion) bad decision.

I

 

[Khalai]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

With my left brain I am thinking, OK, I will just wait for a deal down the road and wind up with the 6DmkII. With my right brain I am googling "switched to Sony from Canon."

Here for example: https://www.phototraces.com/photography-reviews/sony-a6000-review/ But there is a ton of information out there. The A7 III is a FF body rumored to be coming this fall, roughly same price point as the 6D mkII. The Sony lens choice is getting better... Many things to consider.

With the 6DmkII sensor performance Canon has given me a shove to the edge of the creek bank. Fool around on the edge of the bank and you just might fall in. :

I agree with your right brain, and I'm in a bit of a dilemma because there is a reputable shop in the U.K. selling the Sony A7R for £899.

This is not forum bravado - Canon is loosing sales because of its decision to give the 6D Mkii poor DR. I have a friend who owns a 6D and was all set to buy the Mkii but due to the DR issue he is now keeping his money. The point he made is that he is a hobby photographer who can not justify the expense of a 5D Mkiv but he will not spend his money on the 6D Mkii which does not give an uplift in image quality (except of course for the higher mega pixels.)

I own a 7D Mkii and am extremely pleased will the cameras performance (yes I can confirm the AF ability of this camera is excellent.) However I am finding that more and more I am using this camera for travel and landscape photography and am getting a little frustrated with the crop factor and poor choice of APS-C wide angle lenses (I own the EF-S 10-18mm lens and whilst it's very cheap I'm not loving the image quality.) I was therefore considering switching to the 6D Mkii but due to the poor DR I'm not going to bother.

This brings me back to the Sony dilemma. I now can't decide between a Sony A7R (and Sigma converter) as a second camera for landscape and travel with my EF 24-105mm L lens or buying the EF 16-35mm F4 L lens. Whilst I know the EF 16-35mm lens is the cheaper option, it's only a little cheaper when you consider that having the A7R would open up far more possibilities for me ............ like I say this is not bravado I might be buying the A7R because of Canon's (in my opinion) bad decision.

I

I strongly suggest that you rent A7r before you buy it. It has its quirks as well as completely different ergonomics philosophy. I've had A72 for a while and eventually did not buy it, because what good is a great IQ camera body, if you can't get comfortable with it and basically struggle with your muscle memory. Not to mention abysmal battery life, where you have to carry at least 2-3 spare batteries for a single day of shooting. So do yourself a favor and rent it first. Sony cameras look great on paper, but they also have their weak spots as any other cameras out there.