Canon officially announces the Canon EOS R system

[CanonGrunt]

Canon LOG, 4k 422 external 10 bit, H.264, ALL I 480 Mbps, 12 Stops Dynamic range.

4k 420 internal Mp4 8 bit ALL I

Duel Pixel Auto Focus in 4k. Duel Pixel Focus Guide. Focus Peaking.

UHD, unfortunately not DCI 4K, but hey you can't have everything.

Has a mic jack. Tilty screen.

Movie Distortion Correction & Digital 5 axis in body IS for movie recording, and Combination IS when an IS lens is attached.

Super 35 crop in 4k, I'd have loved Full Frame or the 1.3 from the 1DC days, but at least it's not the 1.7 like the 5D4 got; and Super 35 pairs with the Cinema Cameras, so that's fine.


This is absolutely geared towards the video community, vloggers, indie film makers, and you tubers that have been flocking to Sony & Pannasonic. This camera will sell well to this crowd, and hey, those photography features ain't bad either.

 

[crazyrunner33]

On the bright side, the camera will take an EF-S lens and if you use that to film 4K you will have a near full APS-C equivalent readout. It's certainly not the best option, but it is better than the 5D IV's implementation of 4K.

True, but at that point it's better to buy the cheaper A7 III or Z6. The A7 III already has a decent adapter for EF lenses and wouldn't require investing in EF-S. The A7 III can at least hold over a Canon hybrid shooter over until there's a better hybrid from Canon.

 

[CanonGrunt]

That's correct. Now I believe the 5D IV(and likely this camera) crops the sensor down to the point of 1:1 for 4K, just like Magic Lantern when recording at a custom resolution. Sony still struggled with sensor readout speed even with their secret sauce for the first couple generations of the A7R, hence why it performed better in the Super 35 crop mode, and it's part of the reason why they made the lower resolution A7S.

Oddly enough, the D850 performs better than the A7R III, despite starting off with a similar Sony Sensor. Nikon spends most of their R&D building off the already developed Sony sensor and redesigning the pipeline, resulting in a better readout and better color. I wish Canon would follow a similar approach instead of being the jack of all trades and designing almost everything from the ground up.

Super 35 Crop according to Canon website. UHD not DCI 4k.

 

[amorse]

From the immediate reactions from the Canon-faithful, I'm betting whatever that date is, it's being moved forward now

I don't know, part of me wonders if this was announced here as Canon's way of saying "we're making full frame mirrorless too!" I don't think this is intended to compete with the a7RIII, and I'm betting they really want to get that one right in the fine details and if that takes longer, so be it!

The EOS R looks like a great camera, but it seems to me that they put a lot of effort into the things that get noticed by buyers in a camera store, and less of the things that may be dealbreakers for forum dwellers. Really sharp EVF, faster lenses, great ergonomics - things you notice when you pick one up in a store and try to use it in a controlled environment.

I am betting on a higher resolution version which has more of the features expected in a 5D series camera with a different battery system to accommodate the greater battery drain. If they're launching lenses not possible on EF as per their white paper, I'd bet they're planning on releasing a very high end model, but maybe need to work on a few things to create the experience of a DSLR.

 

[scyrene]

They needed to release a super wide RF lens with that 4K 1.6 crop.
You can't vlog 4K with a 24mm lens, or a 3lb lens (28-70). The 24-105 also has a min. focusing distance of 17.71 inches...
Yes, you can adapt to an ef-s lens (no 60P) 10-18 which is much lower quality or use an other existing wider lens that will introduce noise when focusing. Unfortunately, this likely won't work for me.

Out of interest, what is the typical FF focal length equivalent used for vlogging?

 

[scyrene]

Is it just me or does this feel like a mirrorless 6d. One card slot?

Just you.

 

[crazyrunner33]

Super 35 Crop according to Canon website. UHD not DCI 4k.

They might call it the Super 35, but it's a bit tighter than that. Close to 1.7 vs. 1.5. It turns the nice 28-70 2.0 into a 47-175.

 

[scyrene]

I can't imagine what the "pro" model would look like. Already have 30MP, 8fps, 5000AF points via DPAF, Magnesium body... What else is there? 60MP? few more FPS? 60fps slo-mo in 4K? There IS a debate to be made that the next model would be the more dedicated video machine, where we see a LOWER res sensor than this. Time will tell!

Of course there are many different types of pros, but I'd look at the 1Dx2 and see what features it has that are missing here. I guess more fps, more robust construction/sealing, bigger body, better high ISO (but maybe lower resolution), different card slot(s)?

 

[crazyrunner33]

Out of interest, what is the typical FF focal length equivalent used for vlogging?

17-40 and 16-35 are good full frame vlogging choices.

 

[Quarkcharmed]

It's the weather sealing that I am still curious about, but obviously that's pretty hard to validate. A bit troubling that they have some different language on weather sealing than used previously (although I think that was in the leak information to be fair). Further, I haven't seen anything regarding how well that weather sealing works with the adapters, so even as a second body I'd be a bit concerned to use this as a backup to my 5D IV considering what I put that through.

I could only find 'dust and drip resistance' mentioned in the white paper here but it was more about the lens mount and lenses. Nothing about the camera itself. My 5D4 was in quite bad sudden weather conditions and survived and it's a major feature to me.

 

[scyrene]

17-40 and 16-35 are good full frame vlogging choices.

Thanks.

So 24mm with the 4K crop factor is ~40mm, so just about fits in that range. But if one is just filming oneself talk, the camera can just be moved further away, right? I've never quite understood the angst about the crop thing, and there are ultrawide lenses that cover it anyhow, especially with EF-S compatibility.

 

[Colorado]

But as I stated in one of my previous messages, I can't find major benefits in upgrading from my 5DMkIV to R. It doesn't even look like an upgrade. Flip screen would be nice to have and that's all. I lose dual card slot and GPS and I'm not sure if R is weather-sealed better than 5D4.

The 5D4 is $3500 MSRP and you can get it for $3100. The R is $2300 and you can get it for $???? soon. The R gives you the 5D4 sensor (with maybe some processing improvements) for $1000 to 1200 less. I'm honestly shocked Canon is making a FF sensor of that quality available at that price.

That said the R is not an upgrade to the 5D4. It's clearly positioned in between the 6D and the 5D. Both with price and with features. An individual may or may not want it depending on their requirements and their current equipment.

 

[neuroanatomist]

The White paper contains a lot of good information. Especially on the RF lenses ... comparing them to EF lenses ... in surprisingly clear language. Not seen such clean cut "direct comparison to other Canon products" before in a Canon White paper. Recommended read.
https://downloads.canon.com/nw/camera/misc-pages/eos-r/pdf/canon_eos_r_white_paper.pdf

@neuroanatomist you may want to have a look at p. 22ff ... the new "Thin-type" Nano USM AF drive implemented in the RF 24-105 and optical performance compared to EF 24-105/4 L IS II and EF 24-105/3.5-6.3

Yep. But I’m not seeing the ‘significant improvements in optical capability’ and ‘substantial reductions in size/weight’ that some people claimed would be the hallmark of lenses designed for FF MILCs. The RF 24-105/4 is optically pretty similar to the EF 24-105/4 II, which is pretty optically similar to its predecessor. The RF version is a little shorter than the EF MkII, and the same size as the EF MkI.

The RF version does use a linear NanoUSM motor (good call on your part!), and it’s focus-by-wire like all the RF lenses. Do you like manual focus with FBW lenses? I have it on my EF-M lenses, and I had it on my 85/1.2L II. Personally, I think it sucks. Actually, you may not care, since you have stated you find manual focus dispensable and irrelevant.

 

[CanonGrunt]

The 5D4 is $3500 MSRP and you can get it for $3100. The R is $2300 and you can get it for $???? soon. The R gives you the 5D4 sensor (with maybe some processing improvements) for $1000 to 1200 less. I'm honestly shocked Canon is making a FF sensor of that quality available at that price.

That said the R is not an upgrade to the 5D4. It's clearly positioned in between the 6D and the 5D. Both with price and with features. An individual may or may not want it depending on their requirements and their current equipment.

It's definitely for video people. It has all the features (except full frame 4k), and more that people kept complaining were not in the 5D IV at launch. The 5D4, and 1D Series are still the heavy hitting in the field photography Cameras. The better weather sealing on them and all that. More rugged. A lot more breakable parts on the R. It's definitely priced to compete in the video market. Specially against Panasonic, but Sony as well. The advantage for Canon is that a lot of video people that went over to Sony and the Panasonic GH5s were still using Canon glass on adaptors, and Canon knows that. They have a decent chance at luring many of them back in, especially with Canon Log, DPAF, Canon color, and all those other Canon specific goodies.

 

[crazyrunner33]

Thanks.

So 24mm with the 4K crop factor is ~40mm, so just about fits in that range. But if one is just filming oneself talk, the camera can just be moved further away, right? I've never quite understood the angst about the crop thing, and there are ultrawide lenses that cover it anyhow, especially with EF-S compatibility.

The vlogging choices I gave are based on using the camera without a crop, so the 1080 mode or a 4K camera with no or little crop. It's always best to move the camera as far away from you when vlogging, but the tighter the focal length(or equivalent), the shot will have more camera shake. To me, the crop is annoying because I wouldn't want to pay the extra for a full frame and not be able to use it, plus you'd have to change lenses when switching from photos to video. For some like yourself, it may not be a problem.

 

[transpo1]

Canon LOG, 4k 422 external 10 bit, H.264, ALL I 480 Mbps, 12 Stops Dynamic range.

4k 420 internal Mp4 8 bit ALL I

Duel Pixel Auto Focus in 4k. Duel Pixel Focus Guide. Focus Peaking.

UHD, unfortunately not DCI 4K, but hey you can't have everything.

Has a mic jack. Tilty screen.

Movie Distortion Correction & Digital 5 axis in body IS for movie recording, and Combination IS when an IS lens is attached.

Super 35 crop in 4k, I'd have loved Full Frame or the 1.3 from the 1DC days, but at least it's not the 1.7 like the 5D4 got; and Super 35 pairs with the Cinema Cameras, so that's fine.


This is absolutely geared towards the video community, vloggers, indie film makers, and you tubers that have been flocking to Sony & Pannasonic. This camera will sell well to this crowd, and hey, those photography features ain't bad either.

Overall, a positive step forward for video with this camera. This will likely stop the bleeding of mainstream video customers, vloggers, video influencers to the competition. However, without FF 4K or 60p, it probably will not win many back who have already migrated to other systems.

This is a camera meant for photographers primarily and I applaud Canon for all the photography innovation they've packed into it. Video is improved, but unfortunately still has a ways to go.

 

[nchoh]

Yep. But I’m not seeing the ‘significant improvements in optical capability’ and ‘substantial reductions in size/weight’ that some people claimed would be the hallmark of lenses designed for FF MILCs. The RF 24-105/4 is optically pretty similar to the EF 24-105/4 II, which is pretty optically similar to its predecessor. The RF version is a little shorter than the EF MkII, and the same size as the EF MkI.

The RF version does use a linear NanoUSM motor (good call on your part!), and it’s focus-by-wire like all the RF lenses. Do you like manual focus with FBW lenses? I have it on my EF-M lenses, and I had it on my 85/1.2L II. Personally, I think it sucks. Actually, you may not care, since you have stated you find manual focus dispensable and irrelevant.

I am guessing that the faster comms rate of the R mount is to remove the lag in the FBW, which should reduce the suck?

 

[transpo1]

It's definitely for video people. It has all the features (except full frame 4k), and more that people kept complaining were not in the 5D IV at launch. The 5D4, and 1D Series are still the heavy hitting in the field photography Cameras. The better weather sealing on them and all that. More rugged. A lot more breakable parts on the R. It's definitely priced to compete in the video market. Specially against Panasonic, but Sony as well. The advantage for Canon is that a lot of video people that went over to Sony and the Panasonic GH5s were still using Canon glass on adaptors, and Canon knows that. They have a decent chance at luring many of them back in, especially with Canon Log, DPAF, Canon color, and all those other Canon specific goodies.

Agree- decent chance at luring them back is the operative phrase

 

[CanonGrunt]

Thanks.

So 24mm with the 4K crop factor is ~40mm, so just about fits in that range. But if one is just filming oneself talk, the camera can just be moved further away, right? I've never quite understood the angst about the crop thing, and there are ultrawide lenses that cover it anyhow, especially with EF-S compatibility.

A lot of Vloggers, you tubers, indie filmmakers, and film school kids I know (and that's a massive market) use GH5's, and those are Micro Four Thirds cameras with a hell of a cropped sensor. So no, the crop isn't that big of a limitation for shooting, people either just want to make a big deal about it, or really want Full Frame 4k like we first had Full Frame HD when the 5D2 came out, alas, crop it is for now.

However, that seems to be how they are achieving the 5 axis in body movie stabilization and movie distortion correction by 'punching in' with a crop. So that will be a lovely trade off for some. A lot of filmmakers I know are punching in anyway in post to get rid of camera shake when they have to do run and gun stuff. So the 5 axis, and even better combination IS system on this in 4K will actually cut out a lot of post production and mis framing for the indie crowd. Not a bad compromise.

There are lots of lovely lens options we can use with this camera thankfully. The 10-22 EF-S comes to mind.

 

[transpo1]

The 5D4 is $3500 MSRP and you can get it for $3100. The R is $2300 and you can get it for $???? soon. The R gives you the 5D4 sensor (with maybe some processing improvements) for $1000 to 1200 less. I'm honestly shocked Canon is making a FF sensor of that quality available at that price.

That said the R is not an upgrade to the 5D4. It's clearly positioned in between the 6D and the 5D. Both with price and with features. An individual may or may not want it depending on their requirements and their current equipment.

One question I haven't seen asked (though admittedly I haven't read all of the hundreds of forum pages):

Canon registered more than one FF mirrorless camera. It looks like we've got the first one, but the second one is unreleased.

Did they decide not to release it?

Or is it a higher end EOS-R (different sensor) that they are saving for release next year?

I don't know much about the registration/release process and history, so feel free to chime in here, but seems like they decided to only release one camera for now and that we may get another one in 2019.

K424

• Mirrorless camera
• Full frame
• Wi-Fi · Bluetooth installed
• Not compatible with smartphone’s Bluetooth remote control function
• Maximum size of test image: 6720 × 4480
• (Judging from the progress of development) Release in late 2018 to early 2019

K433

• Mirrorless camera
• Probably full frame
• Wi-Fi · Bluetooth installed
• Compatible with smartphone’s Bluetooth remote control function
• Probably released in 2019

https://www.canonrumors.com/the-full-list-of-unreleased-canon-camera-ids/