The Full List of Unreleased Canon Camera ID’s

BeenThere · Jun 30, 2018

So, skipped over numbers are models that for one reason or another will never be released? Thanks for organizing the list.

jolyonralph · Jun 30, 2018

So I'm assuming the K424 is the wireless 5D IV equivalent and the K433 would be the wireless 6D II equivalent.

ahsanford · Jun 30, 2018

Any chance K424 or K433 is a fixed lens camera?

Presuming it’s not — I’m geeked. We will finally get the answer to the FF mirrorless mount question we’ve been debating and predicting for so long.

I’m also fairly shocked that we’re seeing what appears to be the 90D *and* the 7D3 or 5DS2 here. The 90D would be a bit early to projections, but the other two are very early.

- A

BillB · Jun 30, 2018

ahsanford said:
Any chance K424 or K433 is a fixed lens camera?

Presuming it’s not — I’m geeked. We will finally get the answer to the FF mirrorless mount question we’ve been debating and predicting for so long.

I’m also fairly shocked that we’re seeing what appears to be the 90D *and* the 7D3 or 5DS2 here. The 90D would be a bit early to projections, but the other two are very early.

- A

If a purpose of a 5DS2 is to update the sensor to dual pixel and onboard ADC, then I am not sure normal update cycles would apply. The original 5DS was released without these features not long before the 1DXII and the 5DIV came out with them. Assuming a high megapixel dual pixel sensor is a practical possibility, I can see where Canon might want it on the street sooner rather than later. Maybe a 5DS2 (or a 5DV) would be a reconvergence of the 5D line somewhere higher than 30 megapixels.

Talys · Jun 30, 2018

jolyonralph said:
So I'm assuming the K424 is the wireless 5D IV equivalent and the K433 would be the wireless 6D II equivalent.

You're probably right, but there is the chance that Canon is stepping up megapixels, in which case, future 6D resolutions = 30MP and future 5D resolutions > 30MP.

It actually ties in to BiilB's comment about dual pixel. We don't know how ramping DPAF > 30 megapixels entails. Is a 40 or 50 megapixel sensor possible at a reasonable cost at this time? Are there other compromises that must make? Or is such a sensor being tested as we speak?

If it's not, what's the future of the high-megapixel 5DSR? Will Canon make a non DPAF refresh to that line?

As much as I am impressed by DPAF, I'm fine with a DSLR without DPAF, because in truth, I hardly ever use it.

BillB · Jun 30, 2018

Talys said:
jolyonralph said:

So I'm assuming the K424 is the wireless 5D IV equivalent and the K433 would be the wireless 6D II equivalent.

Click to expand...

You're probably right, but there is the chance that Canon is stepping up megapixels, in which case, future 6D resolutions = 30MP and future 5D resolutions > 30MP.

It actually ties in to BiilB's comment about dual pixel. We don't know how ramping DPAF > 30 megapixels entails. Is a 40 or 50 megapixel sensor possible at a reasonable cost at this time? Are there other compromises that must make? Or is such a sensor being tested as we speak?

If it's not, what's the future of the high-megapixel 5DSR? Will Canon make a non DPAF refresh to that line?

As much as I am impressed by DPAF, I'm fine with a DSLR without DPAF, because in truth, I hardly ever use it.

After my previous post, I realized that the density of current aps-c sensors seems to tell us that fullframe densities well above 30 mp should be fine. The 24 mp aps-c sensor would scale up to more than 60. If the rumor about a 28 sensor is true, that would scale to more than 70 mp.

Talys · Jun 30, 2018

BillB said:
Talys said:

jolyonralph said:

So I'm assuming the K424 is the wireless 5D IV equivalent and the K433 would be the wireless 6D II equivalent.

Click to expand...

You're probably right, but there is the chance that Canon is stepping up megapixels, in which case, future 6D resolutions = 30MP and future 5D resolutions > 30MP.

It actually ties in to BiilB's comment about dual pixel. We don't know how ramping DPAF > 30 megapixels entails. Is a 40 or 50 megapixel sensor possible at a reasonable cost at this time? Are there other compromises that must make? Or is such a sensor being tested as we speak?

If it's not, what's the future of the high-megapixel 5DSR? Will Canon make a non DPAF refresh to that line?

As much as I am impressed by DPAF, I'm fine with a DSLR without DPAF, because in truth, I hardly ever use it.

Click to expand...

After my previous post, I realized that the density of current aps-c sensors seems to tell us that fullframe densities well above 30 mp should be fine. The 24 mp aps-c sensor would scale up to more than 60. If the rumor about a 28 sensor is true, that would scale to more than 70 mp.

Good point!

Etienne · Jun 30, 2018

BillB said:
Talys said:

jolyonralph said:

So I'm assuming the K424 is the wireless 5D IV equivalent and the K433 would be the wireless 6D II equivalent.

Click to expand...

You're probably right, but there is the chance that Canon is stepping up megapixels, in which case, future 6D resolutions = 30MP and future 5D resolutions > 30MP.

It actually ties in to BiilB's comment about dual pixel. We don't know how ramping DPAF > 30 megapixels entails. Is a 40 or 50 megapixel sensor possible at a reasonable cost at this time? Are there other compromises that must make? Or is such a sensor being tested as we speak?

If it's not, what's the future of the high-megapixel 5DSR? Will Canon make a non DPAF refresh to that line?

As much as I am impressed by DPAF, I'm fine with a DSLR without DPAF, because in truth, I hardly ever use it.

Click to expand...

After my previous post, I realized that the density of current aps-c sensors seems to tell us that fullframe densities well above 30 mp should be fine. The 24 mp aps-c sensor would scale up to more than 60. If the rumor about a 28 sensor is true, that would scale to more than 70 mp.

That's not the whole story. There are a lot more losses manufacturing FF sensors due to the sensor size alone. I suspect that dual-pixel technology increases those losses again, so I doubt that simply extrapolating pixel density to FF size tells the whole story.

Woody · Jul 1, 2018

What a list!

Canon is going all out to ensure they retain their 50% market share.

But I won't be upgrading unless the features are substantial (cough... dynamic range... cough...). I can live with current Canon stuff.

Durf · Jul 1, 2018

The only one that captures my attention is perhaps the 7D Mark iii.
If I ever replace my 80D it'll be with that one if it's got a flip screen.....and only in a couple/few years from now when the price on it has hopefully gone down a bit.

sdz · Jul 1, 2018

These days, cameras are so good that investing in glass often makes more sense than buying the latest camera. Nevertheless, it would be great were Canon to improve the video on their DSLRs, while increasing the dynamic range of their sensors. These improvements would be worth more than a Gee Whiz feature or two. Even a clean HDMI signal from all of their DSLRs would help.

That said, I might upgrade to a Canon mirrorless FF camera. I'm currently considering a GH-5 because I need a good portable video camera. But, then again, I would not get that great Canon color when using the GG-5. Nor the easy integration of the lenses designed for use on an EF mount. I assume Canon's FF mirrorless camera would have an EF mount or an adapter. Canon would need to be crazy not to have either.

traveller · Jul 1, 2018

Etienne said:
BillB said:

Talys said:

jolyonralph said:

So I'm assuming the K424 is the wireless 5D IV equivalent and the K433 would be the wireless 6D II equivalent.

Click to expand...

You're probably right, but there is the chance that Canon is stepping up megapixels, in which case, future 6D resolutions = 30MP and future 5D resolutions > 30MP.

It actually ties in to BiilB's comment about dual pixel. We don't know how ramping DPAF > 30 megapixels entails. Is a 40 or 50 megapixel sensor possible at a reasonable cost at this time? Are there other compromises that must make? Or is such a sensor being tested as we speak?

If it's not, what's the future of the high-megapixel 5DSR? Will Canon make a non DPAF refresh to that line?

As much as I am impressed by DPAF, I'm fine with a DSLR without DPAF, because in truth, I hardly ever use it.

Click to expand...

After my previous post, I realized that the density of current aps-c sensors seems to tell us that fullframe densities well above 30 mp should be fine. The 24 mp aps-c sensor would scale up to more than 60. If the rumor about a 28 sensor is true, that would scale to more than 70 mp.

Click to expand...

That's not the whole story. There are a lot more losses manufacturing FF sensors due to the sensor size alone. I suspect that dual-pixel technology increases those losses again, so I doubt that simply extrapolating pixel density to FF size tells the whole story.

Whilst what Etienne writes about yield being lower for larger sensor size is true, I’m not convinced that Canon is struggling with dual-pixel sensor yields these days, as the technology has worked its way down the the M100 at the bottom of the range. Given the close relationship between the 7D2 and 5DS sensors, I would expect that whatever appears with the 7D3 (whenever that appears) will be what features on a 5DS2 a few months later.

traveller · Jul 1, 2018

BillB said:
ahsanford said:

Any chance K424 or K433 is a fixed lens camera?

Presuming it’s not — I’m geeked. We will finally get the answer to the FF mirrorless mount question we’ve been debating and predicting for so long.

I’m also fairly shocked that we’re seeing what appears to be the 90D *and* the 7D3 or 5DS2 here. The 90D would be a bit early to projections, but the other two are very early.

- A

Click to expand...

If a purpose of a 5DS2 is to update the sensor to dual pixel and onboard ADC, then I am not sure normal update cycles would apply. The original 5DS was released without these features not long before the 1DXII and the 5DIV came out with them. Assuming a high megapixel dual pixel sensor is a practical possibility, I can see where Canon might want it on the street sooner rather than later. Maybe a 5DS2 (or a 5DV) would be a reconvergence of the 5D line somewhere higher than 30 megapixels.

I don't think that Canon sees urgently moving its entire lineup onto their "new" 180nm process is a goal in itself. The fact that the 6D2 was released last year using a sensor that appears to have been produced on the old 500nm process, would seem to back up my belief. I would think that Canon has far too much investment tied up in fab lines to carry out such a drastic change. Besides, if they were going to alter their planned model replacement schedules to move the entire DSLR lineup to the 180nm process (which allows all the on-chip ADC goodness), would they not have done so sooner? The 80D came out in February 2016: if moving key DSLR lines over to the new sensor architecture quickly was indeed a key goal, then why are we nearly two and a half years later with no 5DS2 or 7D3?

It seems more that Canon is trying to standardise on as few sensor designs as possible to spread R&D costs across many different models, which is sensible considering how mature the market is now. It looks like the 6D2 and 4000D are on the old 500nm process, along with the two remaining older models (5DS/R & 7D2). I'm guessing that the 6D2 & 4000D were probably put on this fab line to take up spare capacity from declining 5DS & 7D2 production (thus extract the final value from Canon's initial capital investment).

Joatamos · Jul 1, 2018

"K424 - Not compatible with smartphone’s Bluetooth remote control function"

Is there a good reason why they wouldn't have this support on any new camera now??

BillB · Jul 1, 2018

traveller said:
I don't think that Canon sees urgently moving its entire lineup onto their "new" 180nm process is a goal in itself. The fact that the 6D2 was released last year using a sensor that appears to have been produced on the old 500nm process, would seem to back up my belief. I would think that Canon has far too much investment tied up in fab lines to carry out such a drastic change. Besides, if they were going to alter their planned model replacement schedules to move the entire DSLR lineup to the 180nm process (which allows all the on-chip ADC goodness), would they not have done so sooner? The 80D came out in February 2016: if moving key DSLR lines over to the new sensor architecture quickly was indeed a key goal, then why are we nearly two and a half years later with no 5DS2 or 7D3?

It seems more that Canon is trying to standardise on as few sensor designs as possible to spread R&D costs across many different models, which is sensible considering how mature the market is now. It looks like the 6D2 and 4000D are on the old 500nm process, along with the two remaining older models (5DS/R & 7D2). I'm guessing that the 6D2 & 4000D were probably put on this fab line to take up spare capacity from declining 5DS & 7D2 production (thus extract the final value from Canon's initial capital investment).

Putting it another way, Canon is very unlikely to put out a 7DIII or an 5DSII until it can use the 180 nm fab for the sensor. So one of the questions is fab capacity, so maybe that tilts things a little toward the 7DIII with its aps-c sensor.

The Fat Fish · Jul 1, 2018

Woody said:
Canon is going all out to ensure they retain their 50% market share.

But I won't be upgrading unless the features are substantial (cough... dynamic range... cough...). I can live with current Canon stuff.

I still haven't upgraded from my original 6D as Canon haven't made something worth upgrading to. I really hope the are going to compete more in features vs price. Let's have a £2200 Canon version of the A7III!

edoorn · Jul 1, 2018

Joatamos said:
"K424 - Not compatible with smartphone’s Bluetooth remote control function"

Is there a good reason why they wouldn't have this support on any new camera now??

i noticed this bit too, what's the thought behind this?

Yasko · Jul 1, 2018

edoorn said:
Joatamos said:

"K424 - Not compatible with smartphone’s Bluetooth remote control function"

Is there a good reason why they wouldn't have this support on any new camera now??

Click to expand...

i noticed this bit too, what's the thought behind this?

May be Canon does not consider this meaningful enough for a Pro user (if it is indeed going to be a professional full frame mirrorless camera offering)

.
I would consider it to be handy, although I have to say that me as an enthusiast, I am yet still to use the smartphone App... Shooting birds in the garden would be one very useful application for it I suppose.

Aussie shooter · Jul 1, 2018

The Fat Fish said:
Woody said:

Canon is going all out to ensure they retain their 50% market share.

But I won't be upgrading unless the features are substantial (cough... dynamic range... cough...). I can live with current Canon stuff.

Click to expand...

I still haven't upgraded from my original 6D as Canon haven't made something worth upgrading to. I really hope the are going to compete more in features vs price. Let's have a £2200 Canon version of the A7III!

Crappy ergonomics included? I know what you are getting at given the specs of the A73 are pretty damn good. But are the trade offs worth it? Canon will produce a great mirrorless FF in the near future but I dearly hope they do NOT produce anything like the sony cameras. That would be devestating

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