The Full List of Unreleased Canon Camera ID’s

[BillB]

Canon is going all out to ensure they retain their 50% market share.

But I won't be upgrading unless the features are substantial (cough... dynamic range... cough...). I can live with current Canon stuff.

I still haven't upgraded from my original 6D as Canon haven't made something worth upgrading to. I really hope the are going to compete more in features vs price. Let's have a £2200 Canon version of the A7III!

Crappy ergonomics included? I know what you are getting at given the specs of the A73 are pretty damn good. But are the trade offs worth it? Canon will produce a great mirrorless FF in the near future but I dearly hope they do NOT produce anything like the sony cameras. That would be devestating

So what A7III specs and features would you most want Canon to copy?

 

[sanj]

I would be delighted to have a full frame fixed 35mm f2 IS lens.

 

[Aussie shooter]

Canon is going all out to ensure they retain their 50% market share.

But I won't be upgrading unless the features are substantial (cough... dynamic range... cough...). I can live with current Canon stuff.

I still haven't upgraded from my original 6D as Canon haven't made something worth upgrading to. I really hope the are going to compete more in features vs price. Let's have a £2200 Canon version of the A7III!

Crappy ergonomics included? I know what you are getting at given the specs of the A73 are pretty damn good. But are the trade offs worth it? Canon will produce a great mirrorless FF in the near future but I dearly hope they do NOT produce anything like the sony cameras. That would be devestating

So what A7III specs and features would you most want Canon to copy?

Any improvement in sensor quality would be great. Sony's eye tracking AF is pretty cool. I don't personally give a rats about video but if canon could put in awesome 4K in order to shut the whingers up that'd be great. Apart from that. Very little. But I will be damned if I would give up the ergonomics or reliability of a canon DSLR

 

[Ozarker]

Hoping there will be a 5D Mark V DSLR someday. I know it is too early now, but still hoping. If not, then a 5D Mark IV when it closes out. The 5D Mark III has been a wonderful camera. Best camera I've ever owned.

 

[Etienne]

I would be delighted to have a full frame fixed 35mm f2 IS lens.

You can put Canon's existing really good 35mm f/2 IS on any of their full frame cameras, and just never take it off .... voila!

 

[zim]

These days, cameras are so good that investing in glass often makes more sense than buying the latest camera.

This, for me, has always been the truth but if I'm totally honest I'm concerned that Canon will pull an FD so until they show their hand I'm perfectly happy with what I've got, and I can easily wait a year or two (and no, adaptors are not acceptable to me)

 

[BillB]

I would be delighted to have a full frame fixed 35mm f2 IS lens.

You can put Canon's existing really good 35mm f/2 IS on any of their full frame cameras, and just never take it off .... voila!

Yup. El cheapo solution is the shorty forty on whatever you have sitting around, in my case a 5DII.

 

[slclick]

I would be delighted to have a full frame fixed 35mm f2 IS lens.

Like a Canon version of an RX1Rll?

 

[-1]

Any chance K424 or K433 is a fixed lens camera?

Presuming it’s not — I’m geeked. We will finally get the answer to the FF mirrorless mount question we’ve been debating and predicting for so long.

I’m also fairly shocked that we’re seeing what appears to be the 90D *and* the 7D3 or 5DS2 here. The 90D would be a bit early to projections, but the other two are very early.

The 5Ds2 (non R) has fallen in price so that it's a close match to the 5D4, circa SEK 25000 without VAT while the 5DsR, basically the same camera is almost SEK 10 000 more expensive than the non R still so it's obviously a hard sell. An update to give it dual pixel RAW and 5D4 user interface might correct that... There are lots of complaints against the sensor of the 7D2 so when the 90D arrives it will be a hard sell too without an sensor and interface update.

 

[ahsanford]

The 5Ds2 (non R) has fallen in price so that it's a close match to the 5D4, circa SEK 25000 without VAT while the 5DsR, basically the same camera is almost SEK 10 000 more expensive than the non R still so it's obviously a hard sell. An update to give it dual pixel RAW and 5D4 user interface might correct that... There are lots of complaints against the sensor of the 7D2 so when the 90D arrives it will be a hard sell too without an sensor and interface update.

I have almost no doubt that the 5DS2 and 7D3 will get new sensors, but I'd be stunned if Canon rushed those forward just to give them new sensors. I expect more traditional 'full' updates for those lines when it's their turn (both are tracking to late 2019):

7D3 would get a new sensor, wifi, more AF points, 4K, more f/8 AF points, larger buffer, possibly higher fps, touchscreen or tilty-flippy-touchscreen, etc.

5DS2 would get a new sensor, DPAF + touch or touch/tilt/flip, the 5D4 control layout, DP RAW, wifi, possibly 4K of some sort, etc.

...but I could be wrong. Perhaps the D500 is killing the 7D2 in the market, the D850 is killing the 5DS, etc. and something needs to change with Canon's lengthy product lifecycles.

- A

 

[ahsanford]

I would be delighted to have a full frame fixed 35mm f2 IS lens.

You can put Canon's existing really good 35mm f/2 IS on any of their full frame cameras, and just never take it off .... voila!

Wouldn't be nearly as tiny as tucking the (fixed) lens into the body itself, and doing that also unlocks the possibility of going with a leaf shutter. See pic, it's night and day for size -- slower wide to standard FL primes are the sweet spot for mirrorless truly looking smaller than the FF SLR sitting next to it.

I'm not saying I want an RX1R or Leica Q product, but there's surely a market for a super high IQ point and shoot for the trust fund instagram crowd. I just don't think it would be a mainstream mirrorless offering.

- A

 

[BillB]

I have almost no doubt that the 5DS2 and 7D3 will get new sensors, but I'd be stunned if Canon rushed those forward just to give them new sensors. I expect more traditional 'full' updates for those lines when it's their turn (both are tracking to late 2019):

7D3 would get a new sensor, wifi, more AF points, 4K, more f/8 AF points, larger buffer, possibly higher fps, touchscreen or tilty-flippy-touchscreen, etc.

5DS2 would get a new sensor, DPAF + touch or touch/tilt/flip, the 5D4 control layout, DP RAW, wifi, possibly 4K of some sort, etc.

...but I could be wrong. Perhaps the D500 is killing the 7D2 in the market, the D850 is killing the 5DS, etc. and something needs to change with Canon's lengthy product lifecycles.

- A

OP has this camera listed as 2019 or later, so it seems that we are now on the same song sheet on timing. Likely coming but not real soon. Maybe 2019, maybe not.

 

[-1]

The 5Ds2 (non R) has fallen in price so that it's a close match to the 5D4, circa SEK 25000 without VAT while the 5DsR, basically the same camera is almost SEK 10 000 more expensive than the non R still so it's obviously a hard sell. An update to give it dual pixel RAW and 5D4 user interface might correct that... There are lots of complaints against the sensor of the 7D2 so when the 90D arrives it will be a hard sell too without an sensor and interface update.

I have almost no doubt that the 5DS2 and 7D3 will get new sensors, but I'd be stunned if Canon rushed those forward just to give them new sensors. I expect more traditional 'full' updates for those lines when it's their turn (both are tracking to late 2019):

7D3 would get a new sensor, wifi, more AF points, 4K, more f/8 AF points, larger buffer, possibly higher fps, touchscreen or tilty-flippy-touchscreen, etc.

5DS2 would get a new sensor, DPAF + touch or touch/tilt/flip, the 5D4 control layout, DP RAW, wifi, possibly 4K of some sort, etc.

...but I could be wrong. Perhaps the D500 is killing the 7D2 in the market, the D850 is killing the 5DS, etc. and something needs to change with Canon's lengthy product lifecycles.

The crew that handles Canons upgrade schedules seem to suffer from a diverse collection of "alphabetical" syndromes and compulsive disorders. That's the problem... ;-/

 

[Canoneer]

So I'm assuming the K424 is the wireless 5D IV equivalent and the K433 would be the wireless 6D II equivalent.

You're probably right, but there is the chance that Canon is stepping up megapixels, in which case, future 6D resolutions = 30MP and future 5D resolutions > 30MP.

It actually ties in to BiilB's comment about dual pixel. We don't know how ramping DPAF > 30 megapixels entails. Is a 40 or 50 megapixel sensor possible at a reasonable cost at this time? Are there other compromises that must make? Or is such a sensor being tested as we speak?

If it's not, what's the future of the high-megapixel 5DSR? Will Canon make a non DPAF refresh to that line?

As much as I am impressed by DPAF, I'm fine with a DSLR without DPAF, because in truth, I hardly ever use it.

After my previous post, I realized that the density of current aps-c sensors seems to tell us that fullframe densities well above 30 mp should be fine. The 24 mp aps-c sensor would scale up to more than 60. If the rumor about a 28 sensor is true, that would scale to more than 70 mp.

That's not the whole story. There are a lot more losses manufacturing FF sensors due to the sensor size alone. I suspect that dual-pixel technology increases those losses again, so I doubt that simply extrapolating pixel density to FF size tells the whole story.

Whilst what Etienne writes about yield being lower for larger sensor size is true, I’m not convinced that Canon is struggling with dual-pixel sensor yields these days, as the technology has worked its way down the the M100 at the bottom of the range. Given the close relationship between the 7D2 and 5DS sensors, I would expect that whatever appears with the 7D3 (whenever that appears) will be what features on a 5DS2 a few months later.

Bear in mind that the M100, M5, M6, 80D, 77D (9000D), T7i (800D), SL2 (200D), and G1 X III use the same sensor. That's a lot of product consolidation for sensor manufacture. Canon is able to recuperate the R&D costs through selling same sensor across the majority of their product portfolio, so lower yield rates aren't as problematic for purposes of supply & demand. It was a very smart move on Canon's part.

 

[melgross]

So I'm assuming the K424 is the wireless 5D IV equivalent and the K433 would be the wireless 6D II equivalent.

You're probably right, but there is the chance that Canon is stepping up megapixels, in which case, future 6D resolutions = 30MP and future 5D resolutions > 30MP.

It actually ties in to BiilB's comment about dual pixel. We don't know how ramping DPAF > 30 megapixels entails. Is a 40 or 50 megapixel sensor possible at a reasonable cost at this time? Are there other compromises that must make? Or is such a sensor being tested as we speak?

If it's not, what's the future of the high-megapixel 5DSR? Will Canon make a non DPAF refresh to that line?

As much as I am impressed by DPAF, I'm fine with a DSLR without DPAF, because in truth, I hardly ever use it.

After my previous post, I realized that the density of current aps-c sensors seems to tell us that fullframe densities well above 30 mp should be fine. The 24 mp aps-c sensor would scale up to more than 60. If the rumor about a 28 sensor is true, that would scale to more than 70 mp.

I’m more concerned about per pixel quality than about ultimate number of pixels. Yes, Canon has 51mp, and Nikon and Sony are at about 45.

But even Canon’s latest are still somewhat behind on noise and dynamic range. Truthfully, once you make an actual image as a print, or worse, 4 color, much of that advantage disappears. Nevertheless, the difference is there, and sometimes it does matter, such as when correcting for vignetting, particularly when using those f1.2 and 1.4 lenses people here have been yammering about lately.

So I’d much rather see 30mp with an additional 1.5 stops of dynamic range and noise, rather than another 10-20mp with about the same pixel quality as now.

 

[melgross]

Any chance K424 or K433 is a fixed lens camera?

Presuming it’s not — I’m geeked. We will finally get the answer to the FF mirrorless mount question we’ve been debating and predicting for so long.

I’m also fairly shocked that we’re seeing what appears to be the 90D *and* the 7D3 or 5DS2 here. The 90D would be a bit early to projections, but the other two are very early.

- A

If a purpose of a 5DS2 is to update the sensor to dual pixel and onboard ADC, then I am not sure normal update cycles would apply. The original 5DS was released without these features not long before the 1DXII and the 5DIV came out with them. Assuming a high megapixel dual pixel sensor is a practical possibility, I can see where Canon might want it on the street sooner rather than later. Maybe a 5DS2 (or a 5DV) would be a reconvergence of the 5D line somewhere higher than 30 megapixels.

I don't think that Canon sees urgently moving its entire lineup onto their "new" 180nm process is a goal in itself. The fact that the 6D2 was released last year using a sensor that appears to have been produced on the old 500nm process, would seem to back up my belief. I would think that Canon has far too much investment tied up in fab lines to carry out such a drastic change. Besides, if they were going to alter their planned model replacement schedules to move the entire DSLR lineup to the 180nm process (which allows all the on-chip ADC goodness), would they not have done so sooner? The 80D came out in February 2016: if moving key DSLR lines over to the new sensor architecture quickly was indeed a key goal, then why are we nearly two and a half years later with no 5DS2 or 7D3?

It seems more that Canon is trying to standardise on as few sensor designs as possible to spread R&D costs across many different models, which is sensible considering how mature the market is now. It looks like the 6D2 and 4000D are on the old 500nm process, along with the two remaining older models (5DS/R & 7D2). I'm guessing that the 6D2 & 4000D were probably put on this fab line to take up spare capacity from declining 5DS & 7D2 production (thus extract the final value from Canon's initial capital investment).

It’s likely that much of what you’re saying is true, but it’s also likely that they want to move all of their chips to onboard ADC. After all, that’s what got Nikon/Sony in front of Canon in the pixel level IQ race, and they haven’t looked back. Canon is about three generations behind there, even in the chips that do have it. And moving to a smaller process has so many advantages, that despite the upfront cost, they pretty much have no choice about it.

They can’t advance their controllers without moving smaller. Power considerations demand it too. Everywhere they look, they need it.

 

[Architect1776]

I would be delighted to have a full frame fixed 35mm f2 IS lens.

You can put Canon's existing really good 35mm f/2 IS on any of their full frame cameras, and just never take it off .... voila!

Wouldn't be nearly as tiny as tucking the (fixed) lens into the body itself, and doing that also unlocks the possibility of going with a leaf shutter. See pic, it's night and day for size -- slower wide to standard FL primes are the sweet spot for mirrorless truly looking smaller than the FF SLR sitting next to it.

I'm not saying I want an RX1R or Leica Q product, but there's surely a market for a super high IQ point and shoot for the trust fund instagram crowd. I just don't think it would be a mainstream mirrorless offering.

- A

Funny how deceiving the photo of the cameras is fixed so the camera to the left is much farther down than the next camera and the next one farther down from the right camera to give a totally false impression of the far left one being substantially smaller than the far right camera.

 

[fullstop]

camerasize compares cameras - correctly - including (protruding) viewfinder oculars and eye cups. Like other Sony mirrorless cameras, Sony RX-1R II has a very clever pop-up viewfinder. So for transportation size comparison the image shows the "real deal". It is incredibly compact, as small a camera as you can build around a 42 MP FF sensor and a good IQ lens.

My only gripes with it are: fixed 35mm prime lens [as a matter of principle have never and will never buy such camera] and rather steep price of the Sony.

 

[ahsanford]

Funny how deceiving the photo of the cameras is fixed so the camera to the left is much farther down than the next camera and the next one farther down from the right camera to give a totally false impression of the far left one being substantially smaller than the far right camera.

It's not by design or bias, it's tied to whether the page aligns things to the eye cup or the LCD -- and CameraSize isn't exactly consistent on that front.

But here you go. Corrected.

The point is sufficiently clear (at least in this instance) that PS work shouldn't be necessary: the combination of pulling the mirror and tucking parts of standard/wide lens into the body in a fixed lens design adds up to a considerably smaller package. For all the perfectly fair darts we throw at a mirrorless rigs' thinness being fairly unimportant if you use long / fast glass, a modestly/intelligently spec'd fixed lens rig can sit in this sweet spot of size savings.

- A

 

[fullstop]

Well Sony A7 (1st gen) form factor with a 35/1.8 attached also compares very favorably. That would be my preferred size bracket for a FF-sensored MILC.

http://j.mp/2IMh5Yv