Canon announces development of the EOS R5 full-frame mirrorless camera

[Michael Clark]

Cool. The RF70-200 does this fine too, though gets a little leveraged near 200. Good for fast deploy or stowage.

(I assume you're using "dust-pumps" for fun - the repair experts seem to say that dues is not a particular issue with this type, and that primes get more dust.)

Have you ever used a push-pull zoom? There's no zoom ring. You move the barrel in and out by moving your gripping hand forward and back. No zoom helicoids inside the barrel. No rotational motion. It's like a small frame mounted bicycle pump. Two tubes, one inside the other, that lengthen and contract by moving one end in and out.

 

[PureClassA]

Seriously. go read his article on it, and then go read dpreview's.

It's a fair piece. I'll give it that. One thing that leap out at me:

There is rumoured to be an R6 announced later this year which takes the 5K RAW internal video recording and 20MP sensor from the 1D X Mark III and puts it in a body very similar to the R5.

I have not seen anywhere that the R6 is rumored to have the 5.5RAW like the DX3. Obviously it's the same sensor. We suspect the Digic X as well. CR reports 4K60 like the DX3... Or is Andrew just assuming ALL the exact same video specs brought down from the DX3 to a MILC body? your thoughts? I'm still trying to determine if the R6 is actually the "video centric" body we're heard talk of. But there doesn't seem to be enough information yet.

 

[ahsanford]

I'm worried about if canon will use USH-II instead of CFexpress.
If let's say the R is arround 30MB / shot by 30 MP, maybe we need about 900MB/s cards.

Right? 45MP * 20Shots/sec = 900+ MB/s?

The highest UHS-II card I found had a average speed of 242MB/sec with a top of around 272MB/sec

Canon won't advertise a 20 fps functionality unless (at a minimum) the sensor, internal throughput, write speeds, etc. can actually deliver 20 fps. Zero chance they make a 900 MB/s sensor/data highway that gets bottlenecked at the card now that they've outed the 20 fps spec.

Now, they might nerf the balls out of that 20 fps -- it might only be in a crop mode (kinda doubt it), might be 12-bit compressed (getting warmer) -- but if they say 20 fps we're going to get it. High end AF features may also choke the throughput, but that's an elective decision.

So a slower than desirable card format may get used, but it will push 20 fps and 8K (presumably 24 or 30 Hz) if Canon says it will.

- A

 

[ahsanford]

Have you ever used a push-pull zoom? There's no zoom ring. You move the barrel in and out by moving your gripping hand forward and back. No zoom helicoids inside the barrel. No rotational motion. It's like a small frame mounted bicycle pump. Two tubes, one inside the other, that lengthen and contract by moving one end in and out.

+1. The EF 100-400L II (and highly likely this RF 100-500L) works like most externally zooming zoom lenses: twist for reach.

The 100-400L I worked more like a trombone. Birding with that lens was like Riker playing jazz on the holodeck.

- A

 

[slclick]

Yeah, that's the thing, I always keep an "L" bracket on my cameras...at least my 5D3 always has one on it.....RRS version.

Maybe they'll come up with some sort of new L bracket that works with this R5 tilty-flippy....

I hope so, because I love having my L bracket to go back and forth from tripod, to mono pod, to even my motion controlled set ups, in either landscape/format as needed, with a quick release arca Swiss type clamping system.....

If it doesn't allow for flippy screen movement, I guess I'll just bear with it, but I'd hate not being able to use something they give me, but "L" bracket is much higher on my priority list of things used to date.

C

Most allow for it but not 100% swing out. 95% for the RRS I believe. Kirk might be that good as well.

 

[slclick]

+1. The EF 100-400L II (and highly likely this RF 100-500L) works like most externally zooming zoom lenses: twist for reach.

The 100-400L I worked more like a trombone. Birding with that lens was like Riker playing jazz on the holodeck.

- A

Well, he did land Diana...

 

[PureClassA]

I'm worried about if canon will use USH-II instead of CFexpress.
If let's say the R is arround 30MB / shot by 30 MP, maybe we need about 900MB/s cards.

Right? 45MP * 20Shots/sec = 900+ MB/s?

The highest UHS-II card I found had a average speed of 242MB/sec with a top of around 272MB/sec

The DX3 got Dual CF Express. The R5 will have at least 1 (with the other being maybe CFast2 or SD) The caveat being if you want the fastest frame rates and 4k60 and 4k120 and 8K... gotta have a CFExpress card in there

 

[joestopper]

Let's Talk about the SHORTCOMINGS OF THE CANON EOS R5 : ( as compared to 5D4,Panasonic S1H,A7R4,Z7 )


1. No dedicated buttons for Mode dial , button for switching between photo & video mode, ( in the 360 render of the R5 camera cannot locate either a dedicated ISO button or AF drive button ). It has less buttons overall as compared to 5D4. Thumbs down

2. Megapixels : R5 will possibly have 40 megapixels (which is very less in 2020, at least 45 Mpx is a must) ...Nikon released D850 in 2017 with 45 Mpx , now Z7 in 2019 with 46 mpx, A7r4 can do 61 mpx. Canon doesn't have the DR of the Sony's & Nikons. So R5 lags behind the competition in photo specs.

3. Possibly the R5 will not have 10 bit internal video like S1H , or record externally 10 bit like Nikon z7, z6. S1H leads in video specs hands down.So R5 lags in video specs as well.

4. Possibly No anamorphic lens support like S1H. R5 lags

5. S1H can do dual ISO for cleaner video at higher ISO. R5 lags here too.

6. S1H is NETFLIX approved & imho R5 won't have those specs for NETFLIX approval. R5 lags.

6. can't do ISO 32 & ISO 64 like the Nikon Z7 when you want shallower depth of field in bright light.

7. Canon has not talked about the battery life..in all probability it will take fewer shots per battery charge as compared to Canon 5D4.

8. so the ONLY saving grace that Canon marketing found for this camera was that to give it 8K !!! ))
if you take out the 8K from the equation what does R5 have that the competition doesn't already offer???

Further, imho that 8K will come with at least a 2x crop & 8 bit 4.2.0 codec. So basically that will be a gimmick ...not for Pro's. Not sure whether the 4K will be with crop of Full frame either. Also possibly no live AF tracking in 4K or 8K modes. Canon has NOT revealed anything on the codecs. is it 8bit? or 10 bit? or has 12bit Raw like C200. Internal 10 bit in 4K is a must in 2020. what about RAW video codec ?? it doesn't seem to have. RAW lite a must for video in 2020.

Canon is solidly lagging behind the competition by at least 2 years in Mirrorless...it is releasing cameras with specs which the competition already released in 2017 on wards.

So do u think R5 is the ONE which will destroy the competition in 2020 ???

Explain to us how you do "8K will come with at least a 2x crop" ?
In 3:2 you need 40+ MP!

 

[ahsanford]

Are you saying they won't release them at the same time? I know it would be uncharacteristic of Canon. Why get only one PR bump, when you can have two? I may be wrong, but in this case I think it makes some business sense. Release them both at the same time -- knowing that some of their customers are itching to get a mirrorless and knowing that other customers want a DSLR and don't intend to switch. Each constitutes about half of their full frame market (pure guess) so why alienate one half, even if it's just temporary.

Except we're rapidly approaching a tipping point where Canon wants us all to join RF, and quickly. They won't force us, but goodness knows they can overtly play favorites with new bodies and refresh cycles. RF will be more frequently updated and RF will lead new generations of bodies and have us wait and hope for an EF equivalent that may never arrive. Each cycle of that peels some more of us off to RF.

I just think simultaneous is a super friendly move for folks like me. Minimize buyers' remorse and you increase your chances of getting my money. But I'm not sure you can win the market with that approach.

- A

 

[Kit Lens Jockey]

I'm still trying to determine if the R6 is actually the "video centric" body we're heard talk of. But there doesn't seem to be enough information yet.

Canon has never been known to make any "video centric" stills camera. I know for a while there was some talk of them abandoning the conventional 1D,5D,6D lineup of full frame cameras. But now that we see there's a camera named the R5 with specs and controls similar to what one would expect from a 5D, I think it's only logical to expect that the R6 will just be a 6D successor. I doubt that they're going towards any kind of "video centric" camera the way sony has with the A7S. And why would they? Canon has any number of cinema cameras they're ready to sell you if you want to shoot primarily video. I also suspect Canon is a little leery to make any sort of video centric stills camera after the monumental flop that the 1DC was.

 

[ahsanford]

I have not seen anywhere that the R6 is rumored to have the 5.5RAW like the DX3. Obviously it's the same sensor. We suspect the Digic X as well. CR reports 4K60 like the DX3... Or is Andrew just assuming ALL the exact same video specs brought down from the DX3 to a MILC body? your thoughts? I'm still trying to determine if the R6 is actually the "video centric" body we're heard talk of. But there doesn't seem to be enough information yet.

I think people are being far too cavalier with basic assumptions. 20 MP = it's the 1DX3 sensor and we get all the hotness that camera can do so therefore the camera will have X and is intended for Y market is a special kind of paint huffing.

We know next to nothing on the R6. We have to wait for more info.

- A

 

[PureClassA]

Except we're rapidly approaching a tipping point where Canon wants us all to join RF, and quickly. They won't force us, but goodness knows they can overtly play favorites with new bodies and refresh cycles. RF will be more frequently updated and RF will lead new generations of bodies and have us wait and hope for an EF equivalent that may never arrive. Each cycle of that peels some more of us off to RF.

I just think simultaneous is a super friendly move for folks like me. Minimize buyers' remorse and you increase your chances of getting my money. But I'm not sure you can win the market with that approach.

- A

I think by the time the R5 hits the shelves for sale, we will know a lot more if not everything about the R6. The only things after that are the High MP R5s and the R1X. Both of those are more or less easy to figure to out what we are gonna get. You either need crazy resolution or you need a pro work horse, indestructible tank. There's no overlap with those two models. I think by May/June we will know most everything we need to know to make a buying decision(s)

 

[Michael Clark]

Let's Talk about the SHORTCOMINGS OF THE CANON EOS R5 : ( as compared to 5D4,Panasonic S1H,A7R4,Z7 )


1. No dedicated buttons for Mode dial , button for switching between photo & video mode, ( in the 360 render of the R5 camera cannot locate either a dedicated ISO button or AF drive button ). It has less buttons overall as compared to 5D4. Thumbs down

The mode dial is on the top right rear of the camera. It says "Mode" in the middle, just like with the EOS R.

The "instant video" button is the red one on the top of the body directly behind the M.Fn. button, just like with the EOS R.

2. Megapixels : R5 will possibly have 40 megapixels (which is very less in 2020, at least 45 Mpx is a must) ...Nikon released D850 in 2017 with 45 Mpx , now Z7 in 2019 with 46 mpx, A7r4 can do 61 mpx. Canon doesn't have the DR of the Sony's & Nikons. So R5 lags behind the competition in photo specs.

It's going to be 45 MP. You don't have any idea how the DR will stack up to other cameras, because you haven't tested the new sensor yet.

3. Possibly the R5 will not have 10 bit internal video like S1H , or record externally 10 bit like Nikon z7, z6. S1H leads in video specs hands down.So R5 lags in video specs as well.

Possibly might not have means it definitely lags, huh?

4. Possibly No anamorphic lens support like S1H. R5 lags

Possibly might not have means it definitely lags, huh?

5. S1H can do dual ISO for cleaner video at higher ISO. R5 lags here too.

6. S1H is NETFLIX approved & imho R5 won't have those specs for NETFLIX approval. R5 lags.

Possibly might not have means it definitely lags, huh?

6. can't do ISO 32 & ISO 64 like the Nikon Z7 when you want shallower depth of field in bright light.

Possibly might not have means it definitely lags, huh?

7. Canon has not talked about the battery life..in all probability it will take fewer shots per battery charge as compared to Canon 5D4.

And in all probability it will improve on the EOS R and comparable MILCs. So what's your point?

8. so the ONLY saving grace that Canon marketing found for this camera was that to give it 8K !!! ))
if you take out the 8K from the equation what does R5 have that the competition doesn't already offer???

We'll have to wait and see the actual specs and performance before we can actually answer that honestly.

Further, imho that 8K will come with at least a 2x crop & 8 bit 4.2.0 codec. So basically that will be a gimmick ...not for Pro's. Not sure whether the 4K will be with crop of Full frame either. Also possibly no live AF tracking in 4K or 8K modes. Canon has NOT revealed anything on the codecs. is it 8bit? or 10 bit? or has 12bit Raw like C200. Internal 10 bit in 4K is a must in 2020. what about RAW video codec ?? it doesn't seem to have. RAW lite a must for video in 2020.

You can't crop a 40+ MP 3:2 sensor by much as have enough pixels left for 8K.

4K will probably be cropped. Who cares? If it's a 2X crop that's the same size as an uncropped µ4/3 sensor!

Re: codecs Possibly might not have means it definitely lags, huh?

Canon is solidly lagging behind the competition by at least 2 years in Mirrorless...it is releasing cameras with specs which the competition already released in 2017 on wards.

So do u think R5 is the ONE which will destroy the competition in 2020 ???

Yep. And you're quaking in your boots because you know it to be true.

 

[-pekr-]

I usually give dpreview the benefit of the doubt because it's a hard job writing articles that are balanced.

But the way they reported on this development announcement leaves all credibility of balance at the door. No, not at the door, they tossed it into the trash.

They decided to ignore canon explicitly stating that they record 8k video, and latch onto canon explaining the benefits of downsampling 8k to 4k as some weird theory that canon actually shoots 8K and downsamples to 4K and that's what canon means and that it really can't record 8k video. Even though Canon states you can extract high resolution stills from the video footage (hard to do without the video file).

No to mention Canon states: "helping to produce a camera that features high-speed continuous shooting and 8K video recording". How much more clearer does one have to make it?

So in their mind that counts it up as being possibly fake 8K video and thus the "8k" in quotes in their title and their two paragraphs of misgivings about 8K video recording.

If you can follow that train of logic, I'm really impressed.

This is where dpreview gets its bad reputation from. Because my first thought was; if this was Sony - they'd be screaming it from the rooftops, holding a parade, and we'd see 5 articles discussing it by now how class leading, innovative it was, etc. It could be a totally unfair assessment, but then again, this article from them was stupid.

Even EOSHD wrote a better piece on the announcement and he's been hammering Canon continuously for the last 5+ years.

There seems to be another expert, Matt Granger, who tries to warn the public from being over excited, because - we are talking Canon here, right? ... And historically inaccurate rumour site information too.

His take is, that R5 might be able to do 20 fps only with a mirror up. Somehow he forgot, he's "analysing" a mirrorless camera. So much for those youtube experts ....

 

[joestopper]

You sure put a lot of effort in trying to paint a demeaning picture of a camera that doesn't have the specs released yet. Unfortunately the vast majority of it sounds ridiculous.

... shows the poster's lack of basic technical understanding.

 

[Kit Lens Jockey]

6. can't do ISO 32 & ISO 64 like the Nikon Z7 when you want shallower depth of field in bright light.

Ok, first, all high end Canons have had ISO "L" below 100 for a long time. And no one has said anything about the ISO capability of this camera yet.

Second, if you want to run extremely wide apertures in bright daylight, you need to go buy some ND filters, because with a wide aperture prime in daylight conditions, you can still easily run out of shutter speed even at ISO "L".

What a troll post.

 

[PureClassA]

Canon has never been known to make any "video centric" stills camera. I know for a while there was some talk of them abandoning the conventional 1D,5D,6D lineup of full frame cameras. But now that we see there's a camera named the R5 with specs and controls similar to what one would expect from a 5D, I think it's only logical to expect that the R6 will just be a 6D successor. I doubt that they're going towards any kind of "video centric" camera the way sony has with the A7S. And why would they? Canon has any number of cinema cameras they're ready to sell you if you want to shoot primarily video. I also suspect Canon is a little leery to make any sort of video centric stills camera after the monumental flop that the 1DC was.

There has been quite a bit of talk suggesting they absolutely ARE working on one. "A lower MP body to rival the a7s" That would be video centric model as that is precisely what the a7S is built for. The monkey wrench is this new 8K business since the a7s2 came out. Honestly I would MUCH prefer a FF 4K 1:1 sensor from Canon. That's why the a7S is so special at it's perfect FF 12MP in 3:2 and FF 8.8MP in 16:9 4K

 

[reef58]

It seems camera specs are becoming like crack. I am only half kidding. This arms race cannot continue can it? A highly speced camera comes out. The internet sings praises, and a few months later it is regarded a a piece of old junk. Exciting times, but a little disheartening. That being said the future for Canon seems pretty bright based on the specs (1dx3) Announcement R5, and rumors R6 and others.

 

[ahsanford]

I think by the time the R5 hits the shelves for sale, we will know a lot more if not everything about the R6. The only things after that are the High MP R5s and the R1X. Both of those are more or less easy to figure to out what we are gonna get. You either need crazy resolution or you need a pro work horse indestructible tank. There's no overlap with two models. I think by May/June we will know most everything we need to know to make a buying decision(s)

Precisely where my head is. Canon's rolling out it's lineup and either the segmentation is really familiar to us or it might have an odd wrinkle (some low light video heavy setup). The big unknown is actually the R6 in my mind for the reasons you mentioned -- the R1 and R5S are very predictable products. So once we know what the R6 is, out come the credit cards.

- A

 

[futzy]

lack of mechanical mode dial and separate video switch are the only negatives so far

Using 1D series since the first model and never missed a mechanical mode dial. On my 5D III mechanical is fine but as said never missed one. Buttons for switching work just fine.