Canon announces development of the EOS R5 full-frame mirrorless camera

[Max TT]

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So what does this mean for the R6?
Are we going to get another Development Announcement between now and July for the R6.
Or do you think the R6 will be for later in 2020.

 

[ahsanford]

I’m wondering whether this means I can sell my Sony gear? Glad I’ve kept my long EF lenses which are worth virtually nothing. Wish we knew further details and ballpark pricing?

Goodness no. They haven't shown us the fine print and hammered us with the nerf gun. The devil's in the details, and I'd wait to see what they are.

Selling your house in Chicago because you heard Phoenix was going to be awesome someday is a bit premature. (You just might want to see what Phoenix is like before you sell your house.)

- A

 

[AlanF]

Honest question from a new to Canon student: do some people really just yank the hood to zoom that one?

There have been many yankers here over the years.

 

[ahsanford]

Given Canon's history I'm inclined to say there isn't going to be a 5DV.

Disagree. 5-series will get at least one more refresh.

You can't make professionals who have used a certain instrument for (in some cases) decades just give it up because 'it's time'. There needs be a generation or two of pro-quality/reliability RF bodies before working photographers let you take the manual transmission out of their daily drivers. Some folks may go willingly (and have already), but some folks know and love the horse that got them here.

- A

 

[[email protected]]

Okay, I've had a night to sleep on it. I'm geeked about what we all think is coming, but I just have to wonder if what they aren't telling us is a really big deal or not.
...
I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but they didn't actually say the MP count was in the 40s or that this camera will record 8K onboard / out of the box. Any chance they won't deliver on those two specs?

- A

AH, I think it's safest to presume there will be some nerf balls thrown in. It's healthy to lower the expectations now. Some other options:
- FPS is governed by a chosen resolution. 20 fps could be 12 bit 20mp, with 7 fps at 45mp 14 bit.
- AF could kick off past 7 fps
- 8k could be motion jpg and fill a card in 3 seconds
- Heat should be an issue with the teeny tiny body. External recording could be required. Which wouldn't be such a terrible thing, as anyone shooting 8k for anything other than curiosity would likely be doing this anyway. That would lend itself to your part-of-a-system theory.
- They could be using mixed non-serifed fonts and serifed fonts to drive us crazy ($100 to send it back and have them upgrade it to a well designed typography)

 

[AlanF]

For what it’s worth, while reading this thread on my phone I was served an ad for the new Nikon D6, and it changed to a JCPenney ad for jeans for really fat women.

I’m still processing the irony.

Ironying the jeans?

 

[ahsanford]

Nope, that info is unavailable but it'd be a big surprise if it weren't full AE/AF in any AF mode for 12 and 20 fps.

20 fps with all bells and whistles on is not going to happen in this price point.

Servo? Eye AF? 14 bit RAW? Something will have to give. I'm bracing for a Sony-like max fps table vs. all the bells and whistles you have turned on.

- A

 

[AlanF]

I think we might see the RF 300 and 500 primes; they didn't get v3's with the 400 and 600, and what are we putting a 1.4x and 2x converter on? Surely not the 100-500 which would make a f/14 1000mm.

The Sony 200-600mm works very well on the A9 with a 2xTC at 1200mm and f/12.6. (Not that I would want to use it.)

 

[Richard CR]

AH, I think it's safest to presume there will be some nerf balls thrown in. It's healthy to lower the expectations now. Some other options:
- FPS is governed by a chosen resolution. 20 fps could be 12 bit 20mp, with 7 fps at 45mp 14 bit.
- AF could kick off past 7 fps
- 8k could be motion jpg and fill a card in 3 seconds
- Heat should be an issue with the teeny tiny body. External recording could be required. Which wouldn't be such a terrible thing, as anyone shooting 8k for anything other than curiosity would likely be doing this anyway. That would lend itself to your part-of-a-system theory.
- They could be using mixed non-serifed fonts and serifed fonts to drive us crazy ($100 to send it back and have them upgrade it to a well designed typography)

well there's the smaller camera body to consider but there will most likely be something.

I would imagine that all the higher performance options drop down to 12 bit. Consider it takes 4 times less time to process 12 bit than it does 14 bit. Canon has done this alot in the past.

But canon even does that on the 1DX Mark III - electronic shutter goes down to 12 bit. it's really just trying to eek out all the performance you can.

the 8K may be h.265 8 bit - which means that Canon (I could be wrong but I think this is right) only needs to read out the sensor at 10 bit mode which is even faster..8 times faster than 14 bit mode.

it may just scream out 8K RAW because there's no processing at all that happens it's just basically writing as fast as it's little mouse wheels can to the CFExpress card. If it's a processor problem versus a sensor problem to process data, that may just happen.

It may not have C-log because C-log forces 12 bit processing, and that's hard as hell?

there's really alot of bit depth tricks that can be played to help the processing, that really doesn't impact the final result (excluding C-log)

Edit: reading through dpreview (and sar) it's amusing that so many experts deem it impossible because of a)heat b) not a stacked sensor c) because sony hasn't done it yet .. when there's such a mydrid amount of ways to make it happen under what we know of the performance envelope of the 1DX Mark III.

but something magical happened in Canonland - this isn't about relaxing the cripple hammer this is all about creating a new generation of sensors and processors that seriously up Canon's game a ton.

between the sensor and the processor - canon is processing at nearly 1 billion freaking pixels a second.

 

[ahsanford]

I think this is a fantastic test when the R5 comes out. If Canon intends this to tide over pros for the next 18 months, we'll see point-linked spot metering. If Canon intends to come out with an R1 anytime in the next couple years, it won't be there.

PS:
I have to say that I use this a ton on my A7R4s. It's nice on the A92, but to lack it on a camera designed for a different purpose is super frustrating in Canon land. Word to Canon: when you choose a feature to deny lower-end bodies, don't use a feature that is needed in the top-of-the-line specialty cameras, like the 5DSR.

I know it's hackneyed to bellyache that 'feature X is on my cellphone but not my 5D', but such is true with this feature.

Go take a picture with your cellphone and tap around a high contrast scene. Exposure changes -- almost like it is metering where you are touching (which is the AF point).

- A

 

[ahsanford]

AH, I think it's safest to presume there will be some nerf balls thrown in. It's healthy to lower the expectations now. Some other options:
- FPS is governed by a chosen resolution. 20 fps could be 12 bit 20mp, with 7 fps at 45mp 14 bit.
- AF could kick off past 7 fps
- 8k could be motion jpg and fill a card in 3 seconds
- Heat should be an issue with the teeny tiny body. External recording could be required. Which wouldn't be such a terrible thing, as anyone shooting 8k for anything other than curiosity would likely be doing this anyway. That would lend itself to your part-of-a-system theory.
- They could be using mixed non-serifed fonts and serifed fonts to drive us crazy ($100 to send it back and have them upgrade it to a well designed typography)

+1. 12 bit at 20 fps or some aspect of the AF or metering crying uncle and becoming fps limiting seems a certainty to me.

- A

 

[Richard CR]

I know it's hackneyed to bellyache that 'feature X is on my cellphone but not my 5D', but such is true with this feature.

Go take a picture with your cellphone and tap around a high contrast scene. Exposure changes -- almost like it is metering where you are touching (which is the AF point).

- A

I find not having this option on mirrorless far more annoying than it was on a DSLR .. maybe it's just the fact that the focus point can be anywhere, and it's definitely just software for where you are adjusting the metering from versus a hardwired AE sensor.

 

[BillB]

Yup. Noticed this too. Is the R6 vaporware, then?

My guess is that the R5 will be out before the R6. Either that, or the announcement wording was a little sloppy. Canon's R5 announcement was its first announcement of a camera with IBIS.

 

[Kit Lens Jockey]

Okay, I've had a night to sleep on it. I'm geeked about what we all think is coming, but I just have to wonder if what they aren't telling us is a really big deal or not.

Big stuff we still don't formally know yet:

If this camera truly is in the 45 MP neighborhood (even though it's 44.7 MP or so for 3:2 8K to be true...) -- hear me out

• Any chance at all that 'other tech' is making an otherwise lower-res-than-we-think sensor accomplish more? Is there any chance we've got a sensor in the 20-25 MP range and some realtime combination of DPAF, IBIS or the electronic video stabilization we've had on prior rigs is 'spoofing' a higher resolution like some cameras do with multi-shot? (Is that even possible for video?)

If this camera will capture 8K video onboard and right out of the box

• Perhaps the camera costs $3-4k and the external 8K recorder costs the same?

From the announcement:​

​

"The new full-frame mirrorless camera currently under development will fully leverage the advantages of the EOS R System, helping to produce a camera that features high-speed continuous shooting and 8K video recording"​

​

Once more, with feeling:​

​

"The new full-frame mirrorless camera currently under development will fully leverage the advantages of the EOS R System, helping to produce a camera that features high-speed continuous shooting and 8K video recording"​

​

Sounds like they are forming Voltron. Is there any chance that the R5 is just part of an 8K recording setup?​

• Do we need a very special and expensive grip to record this video? (Nikon's top fps on the D850 requires a grip, right?)
• Perhaps the camera costs $3-4k but you have to have some hardware tweaking done by Canon to unlock (or make safe) onboard 8k -- possibly for a nontrivial sum?

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but they didn't actually say the MP count was in the 40s or that this camera will record 8K onboard / out of the box. Any chance they won't deliver on those two specs?

- A

Ok, I think you really need to loosen up the tinfoil hat...

First, the amount of indignation and anger that it would generate if they announced a camera that does 8K, but forgot to mention until much later that it requires a massively expensive accessory to do this, would be so great that it would probably have been better for them to just not offer 8K.

Next, the electronic/mechanical wizardry that would be required to make a 20MP sensor somehow function as a higher megapixel sensor for video would be so mind boggling that it would probably be much easier to just... You know... Make a sensor that has the proper number of megapixels.

This doesn't even begin to get into what an awful decision it would be for them to reduce the resolution on the long awaited followup to the 5D IV by a third. Talk about backwards progress. Stepping back to 20MP on the 5 series line of cameras when the last camera in the series had 30MP would land with a massive thud. Sure the 1DX maintained the same resolution, but that's much more of a specialized use camera, and even then it at least maintained about the same resolution.

Yes there are some cameras that will run at a higher FPS with a larger battery. If I remember right, even the 5D MkIV will do a higher FPS when running an LP-E6N vs an older LP-E6. This is just a battery power issue. I wouldn't consider this to be a precedent for a camera maker to say "Our camera will do 8K," and then months later come out and say "Well, with this $3000 accessory."

Are there some detractors Canon probably isn't saying in this initial announcement? Sure. There's probably some stupid crop or something to get 8K from the camera. But if they're coming out and saying the camera can do 8K, they can't make too many caveats to that before they begin to lose peoples' trust and loyalty.

The way you are parsing every last word of the announcement for clues and making far fetched assumptions that have no precedent makes it seem like you really need to just chill and go take some photos while we all wait for the full announcement.

 

[Nelu]

While everyone is excited about the features showing up in big bold letters (8K, for example) I'm waiting for the fine print exceptions.
This is what kills the joy with all vendors. Canon has no exclusivity for the famous now "Cripple Hammer"

12 frames/second with mechanical shutter. OK, nice, cute! How many will we get with continuous tracking AF?
The sensor readout speed will improve compared to the EOS-R but will it be fast enough to actually see the subject in fast action and not a horrible slideshow like many, many mirrorless cameras, EOS-R included?

 

[vishaltpt]

Let's Talk about the SHORTCOMINGS OF THE CANON EOS R5 : ( as compared to 5D4,Panasonic S1H,A7R4,Z7 )


1. No dedicated buttons for Mode dial , button for switching between photo & video mode, ( in the 360 render of the R5 camera cannot locate either a dedicated ISO button or AF drive button ). It has less buttons overall as compared to 5D4. Thumbs down

2. Megapixels : R5 will possibly have 40 megapixels (which is very less in 2020, at least 45 Mpx is a must) ...Nikon released D850 in 2017 with 45 Mpx , now Z7 in 2019 with 46 mpx, A7r4 can do 61 mpx. Canon doesn't have the DR of the Sony's & Nikons. So R5 lags behind the competition in photo specs.

3. Possibly the R5 will not have 10 bit internal video like S1H , or record externally 10 bit like Nikon z7, z6. S1H leads in video specs hands down.So R5 lags in video specs as well.

4. Possibly No anamorphic lens support like S1H. R5 lags

5. S1H can do dual ISO for cleaner video at higher ISO. R5 lags here too.

6. S1H is NETFLIX approved & imho R5 won't have those specs for NETFLIX approval. R5 lags.

6. can't do ISO 32 & ISO 64 like the Nikon Z7 when you want shallower depth of field in bright light.

7. Canon has not talked about the battery life..in all probability it will take fewer shots per battery charge as compared to Canon 5D4.

8. so the ONLY saving grace that Canon marketing found for this camera was that to give it 8K !!! ))
if you take out the 8K from the equation what does R5 have that the competition doesn't already offer???

Further, imho that 8K will come with at least a 2x crop & 8 bit 4.2.0 codec. So basically that will be a gimmick ...not for Pro's. Not sure whether the 4K will be with crop of Full frame either. Also possibly no live AF tracking in 4K or 8K modes. Canon has NOT revealed anything on the codecs. is it 8bit? or 10 bit? or has 12bit Raw like C200. Internal 10 bit in 4K is a must in 2020. what about RAW video codec ?? it doesn't seem to have. RAW lite a must for video in 2020.

Canon is solidly lagging behind the competition by at least 2 years in Mirrorless...it is releasing cameras with specs which the competition already released in 2017 on wards.

So do u think R5 is the ONE which will destroy the competition in 2020 ???

 

[Max TT]

My guess is that the R5 will be out before the R6. Either that, or the announcement wording was a little sloppy. Canon's R5 announcement was its first announcement of a camera with IBIS.

Love that Canon is flexing its muscles, this R5 is seemingly a master stroke. Still some things to be figured out with pricing etc but so far all seems great.

However, I am more interested in the R6 or whatever is the EOS R mark II. I just need Canon to easy my anxiety, so that I can keep my money in my pocket and not buy a Sony A7iii.

 

[prodorshak]

Continue reading...

Thank you CR guy (and CR team). Your info were accurate. Keep up the good work and don't forget the LEAKERS!

 

[Max TT]

Let's Talk about the SHORT COMINGS OF THE CANON EOS R5 : ( as compared to 5D4,Panasonic S1H,A7R4,Z7 )


1. No dedicated buttons for Mode dial , button for switching between photo & video mode, ( in the 360 render of the R5 camera cannot locate either a dedicated ISO button or AF drive button ). It has less buttons overall as compared to 5D4. Thumbs down

2. Megapixels : R5 will possibly have 40 megapixels (which is very less in 2020, at least 45 Mpx is a must) ...Nikon released D850 in 2017 with 45 Mpx , now Z7 in 2019 with 46 mpx, A7r4 can do 61 mpx. Canon doesn't have the DR of the Sony's & Nikons. So R5 lags behind the competition in photo specs.

3. Possibly the R5 will not have 10 bit internal video like S1H , or record externally 10 bit like Nikon z7, z6. S1H leads in video specs hands down.So R5 lags in video specs as well.

4. Possibily No anamorphic lens support like S1H. R5 lags

5. S1H can do dual ISO for cleaner video at higher ISO. R5 lags here too.

6. S1H is NETFLIX approved & imho R5 won't have those specs for NETFLIX approval. R5 lags.

6. can't do ISO 32 & ISO 64 like the Nikon Z7 when you want shallower depth of field in bright light.

7. Canon has not talked about the battery life..in all probability it will take fewer shots per battery charge as compared to Canon 5D4.

8. so the ONLY saving grace that Canon marketing found for this camera was that to give it 8K !!! ))
if you take out the 8K from the equation what does R5 have that the competition doesn't already offer???

Further, imho that 8K will come with atleast a 2x crop & 8 bit 4.2.0 codec. So basically that will be a gimmick ...not for Pro's. Not sure whether the 4K will be with crop of Full frame either. Also possibly no live AF tracking in 4K or 8K modes. Canon has NOT revealed anything on the codecs. is it 8bit? or 10 bit? or has 12bit Raw like C200. Internal 10 bit in 4K is a must in 2020. what about RAW video codec ?? it doesn't seem to have. RAW lite a must for video in 2020.

Canon is solidly lagging behind the competition by at least 2 years in Mirrorless...it is releasing cameras with specs which the competition already released in 2017 onwards.

So do u think R5 is the ONE which will destroy the competition in 2020 ???

These are the times you wish there was a dislike button lol

 

[Chavim]

CR dude, some info on those other lenses would be awesome.