8K recording options for the Canon EOS R5 leak

[PN5X5]

I'm still waiting to hear about anamorphic options..

 

[highdesertmesa]

We're familiar with it because literal trolls coined it on these forums and it spread from there. Canon doesn't do anything that any other manufacturer of any product does. It's juvenile and inappropriate. Grow up.

Incidentally you're still misusing the word. You can shoot video without 24p or whatever they missed out (and we still don't know why). Not having every option for whatever reason doesn't "cripple" the camera for video, it just makes it less good at it because you can still shoot video (and the same is true of any other example you care to choose).

Just to play the Devil’s Advocate here, the Cripple Hammer™ shaming (and falling behind Sony in some respects) may be one reason why Canon has finally reversed course and gone “all in” this time. The technical improvements, sure — those in large part are due to Canon having breakthroughs; but, Canon removing their typical product segmentation barriers/protection is all about changing their past behavior that was rightfully scorned by fan and hater alike.

Without the Cripple Hammer™ shame, there never would have been a full-blown R5, there would have been an R5 that was just good enough.

 

[Kit.]

This is the next camera in the 5D series for Canon and it is being priced "in line" with what the previous 5D series were announced at, with a little inflation (based on rumor...). It is NOT significantly more expensive because of the video specs.

So, if the cost is about the same as any 5D series, wouldn't you rather have the features available if for no other reason than to increase resale value when you do sell it?

I don't care about it being expensive. I don't care about its resale value (although I don't see why a robust photo camera should have a lower resale value than a "pioneer" 8k video camera given the same starting price).

I care about it having photo functionality that won't be compromised by video-oriented hardware hacks.

In this case, by 'basically' I meant 'simplified for the sake of brevity'. I know how it works, but the final result is not dissimilar to the final result of exposure bracketing

It is dissimilar to the end result of exposure bracketing.

With exposure bracketing, you can break the DR limit or the photo cell.

With DGO, you can only speed up reading of the full DR of the photo cell, potentially introducing artifacts in the transition area between signal magnitudes covered by both ADCs. Artifacts much less noticeable in video unless you pixel-peep it frame by frame.

 

[Besisika]

This really looks like a great camera in so many ways. I'm wondering now if there's any point in waiting for an 80MB version. 45MB is virtually the same as what the 5Ds does, and seems like plenty even for architectural or landscape...

Thinking about the same. Was ready to jump ship, but 45MP is good enough. Glad I waited.

 

[H. Jones]

As someone who is more than happy with the 20mp of my 1dx2, I'm more than happy with 45 mp. I was always intimidated by the 5DS, and felt like it was too slow to be worthwhile while taking up too much space, but 20 fps at 45 megapixels is a huge update that gives real value to it for me working in news. I've started buying extra external hard drives and larger size CF Express to prepare for the masses of data, but I look forward to being able to crop way tighter when photographing sports and birds from a distance.

 

[David - Sydney]

I don't care about it being expensive. I don't care about its resale value (although I don't see why a robust photo camera should have a lower resale value than a "pioneer" 8k video camera given the same starting price).

I care about it having photo functionality that won't be compromised by video-oriented hardware hacks.

Video @ 8k/30 has had many commentators wary of what video recording limit it would have due to heat buildup. The menu appears to show no arbitrary time limit (environmental temperatures aside). There would be an additional hardware cost in the camera body for managing that heat. That said, it would also appear to have 47mp unlimited continuous shooting @ 20fps (eshutter without buffering) to the CFexpress card so a benefit for stills shooters as well. Without doing the maths, 8k/30 DCI raw should be approximately the same bitrate as 47mp/20fps.

 

[Able]

So brave ... so confident .... but most importantly so accurate ...
Canon EOS R5 launch price will be below $4000 USD [CR3]
Canon Rumors
May 26, 2020 at 9:35 AM

$3,999.99999999999....

Just kidding

 

[herein2020]

We're familiar with it because literal trolls coined it on these forums and it spread from there. Canon doesn't do anything that any other manufacturer of any product does. It's juvenile and inappropriate. Grow up.

Incidentally you're still misusing the word. You can shoot video without 24p or whatever they missed out (and we still don't know why). Not having every option for whatever reason doesn't "cripple" the camera for video, it just makes it less good at it because you can still shoot video (and the same is true of any other example you care to choose).

You are entitled to your opinion and use of the word just like I am; and I will continue to use the term to describe Canon anytime I feel that they have deliberately limited a hardware feature using firmware or software for no other reason than to protect another model. Also, I am no historian so I do not know how long CR has been around but I do highly doubt it was coined by "trolls" on forums. I have been seeing the word crippled associated with Canon since Magic Lantern 11 years ago unlocked features in the 5D Mark II that no one thought was possible.

Also, your defense of Canon's decision to not include 24p or some other feature that the hardware supports but chose not to include is nothing short of laughable. Tell someone with two cameras and a 24p timeline from camera A that "they can still shoot video" while watching their video stutter due to camera B's lack of support for 24p on a 24p timeline in their NLE. And I'm not talking minor niche features, I'm talking industry standard features that every other vendor includes in their equivalent models / price point.

I'm not a Canon "fanboy", I shoot with whatever gets the job done, and I don't hesitate to point out when any vendor that I am familiar with appears to cripple their software to protect their HW. To get offended by the fact that someone else is pointing out that Canon has deliberately crippled a feature makes no sense at all. With that being said, I am a big fan of the direction Canon is going and I foresee a lot more Canon gear in my future; but if everyone just ignored their shortcomings like you seem to be doing while singing their praises for the things they got right we wouldn't have an R5 and R6 on the way, we probably also wouldn't have IBIS, we'd still be using MJPEG for 4K, we probably wouldn't even have 4K, we definitely wouldn't have mirrorless, or anything else that Canon deemed unnecessary to satisfy their customer base since according to you, as long as it takes pictures and shoots video and has a Canon label on it that's all that matters.

The reality is, Canon for many years completely ignored their users and crippled their hardware using firmware and software until real competition came along (Sony) and people started talking with their wallets. As much as I dislike Sony products, I think they are the best thing that ever happened to Canon users. I was one step away from going all in on the S1H, S1, and EVA1 due to Canon's complete inaction in the video department until the R5 and R6 came along (thanks to Sony).

 

[Ozarker]

I don't care about it being expensive. I don't care about its resale value (although I don't see why a robust photo camera should have a lower resale value than a "pioneer" 8k video camera given the same starting price).

I care about it having photo functionality that won't be compromised by video-oriented hardware hacks.

I'm sitting here confused and wondering how stills are compromised by video functions?

 

[herein2020]

I'm sitting here confused and wondering how stills are compromised by video functions?

It's a losing battle and waste of time to bother responding to people who still think video is the worst thing that ever happened to photography cameras. Just quit while your sanity is still ahead.

 

[Richard CR]

Just to play the Devil’s Advocate here, the Cripple Hammer™ shaming (and falling behind Sony in some respects) may be one reason why Canon has finally reversed course and gone “all in” this time. The technical improvements, sure — those in large part are due to Canon having breakthroughs; but, Canon removing their typical product segmentation barriers/protection is all about changing their past behavior that was rightfully scorned by fan and hater alike.

Without the Cripple Hammer™ shame, there never would have been a full-blown R5, there would have been an R5 that was just good enough.

or it could be that canon had to wait for appropriate research and development which can span years and years, instead of making cameras in the span of a few months in their basements as some tend to think

Granted I do feel they have put a more concerted effort into this release, but a lot of it could have been last minute - for instance, they may have decided to do 8k, but had it nerfed at the start, only to add in more later because much of the enhancements may have simply been firmware.

The absolute collapse of USA DSLR sales, and the rise of the startling sales of the M50 even in the USA I think changed opinions fast on mirrorless. I have seen some numbers on this, and I wish I could write up something on it - but it surprised the heck out of me.

 

[Richard CR]

I don't care about it being expensive. I don't care about its resale value (although I don't see why a robust photo camera should have a lower resale value than a "pioneer" 8k video camera given the same starting price).

I care about it having photo functionality that won't be compromised by video-oriented hardware hacks.


It is dissimilar to the end result of exposure bracketing.

With exposure bracketing, you can break the DR limit or the photo cell.

With DGO, you can only speed up reading of the full DR of the photo cell, potentially introducing artifacts in the transition area between signal magnitudes covered by both ADCs. Artifacts much less noticeable in video unless you pixel-peep it frame by frame.

I have misgivings how DGO that was designed for video could work its way back into stills. as you said, there's alot of stuff they can hide in video because it's well, only 4k and at times oversampled 4k and you can't perceptibly see minor flaws as well.

but i don't see how it "breaks" any photo related features, you either turn DGO on or off - if it does have it.

IMO people are getting carried away thinking it's DGO - and already writing cheques based upon it.

 

[Skux]

It's pretty silly that Canon still makes a distinction between PAL and NTSC video modes. All of the frame rates should be available on the one menu without having to switch between them.

 

[sagtor]

Does the R5 not have 4k RAW? It wasn't in canon's specs in the presentation, only 8k raw. Very odd

 

[Richard CR]

Does the R5 not have 4k RAW? It wasn't in canon's specs in the presentation, only 8k raw. Very odd

not necessarily .. how would do it? if it was 4K oversampled, it wouldn't be raw. it would either have to be lineskipped or perhaps 1:1 pixel readout which would be like a 2.3x crop factor.

 

[PhotonShark]

How would you mount EF-S lenses? AFAIK the adapter supports EF lenses only.
Sell those EF-S lenses and invest in some RF glass

True, you would have to use an adapter. But you could also go with the EF-S crop on full frame lens. This would then give you native 4k, with the added "reach" and centre sharpness.

 

[Max TT]

Hahaha in my mind I am hearing two famous quotes as a pertains to my current PC processing capabilities.

Jaws: Captain, we are going to need a bigger PC!

Start Trek: We're going to need more power Mr. Scotty
Aye, I'm givin' her all she's got, Captain!

 

[highdesertmesa]

or it could be that canon had to wait for appropriate research and development which can span years and years, instead of making cameras in the span of a few months in their basements as some tend to think

Granted I do feel they have put a more concerted effort into this release, but a lot of it could have been last minute - for instance, they may have decided to do 8k, but had it nerfed at the start, only to add in more later because much of the enhancements may have simply been firmware.

The absolute collapse of USA DSLR sales, and the rise of the startling sales of the M50 even in the USA I think changed opinions fast on mirrorless. I have seen some numbers on this, and I wish I could write up something on it - but it surprised the heck out of me.

I thought I remember reading it was a management shakeup at Canon that helped lead to this new R5 mindset – a shakeup related to the bad image Canon had of intentionally feature-limiting their products and losing best-in-class performance status (perceived or otherwise). I think it was the "nanny-limiting" of features that earned Canon the Cripple Hammer™ ridicule more than the tech limitations like crop-4K.

 

[definedphotography]

It's pretty silly that Canon still makes a distinction between PAL and NTSC video modes. All of the frame rates should be available on the one menu without having to switch between them.

i'm just thankful they don't do separate PAL & NTSC versions like they used to

 

[Whowe]

I care about it having photo functionality that won't be compromised by video-oriented hardware hacks.

I guess the question I had was more along the lines of "if the other features are video related or "video-oriented hardware hacks," will they affect you as a photo shooter?

As far as affecting resale value, of course additional video features will help resale value because the used camera will appeal to a larger user (of course, that is WHY Canon includes video features is the cameras in the first place...)