8K recording options for the Canon EOS R5 leak

peters

EOS RP
Dec 25, 2017
335
310
"8K 30p and 4K 120p will not have a crop." In the screenshot, 8K-D doesn't show 30fps as an option? Are we sure it shoots 8K RAW 30fps, or only 24/25fps?
I think 30fps does not apear in the menu if the camera is set to PAL. Not sure though, but I think this is the case.
 

jam05

EOS RP
Mar 12, 2019
266
136
Rocket Lab Electron rocket 'lost' during "Pics Or It Didn't Happen' mission"

Note to Admin: Payload of Canon satelites lost.
 

Mahk43

EOS R
CR Pro
Feb 28, 2020
32
40
France
www.lechodelavaunage.fr
I have been seeing the word crippled associated with Canon since Magic Lantern 11 years ago unlocked features in the 5D Mark II that no one thought was possible.
People don't imagine the cost of such engineering, behind a simple feature into a firmware.
Yes, from here it is simple to say the feature is inside the tool and they just locked it, but if you look inside you may understand that it is way more complicated and need a lot of engineering to be developped and to fit every bodies.

For me it is exactly like into TESLAs, you can buy the low cost model without any feature. You have to pay to get these features. Because the developpment cost and the benefit for the customer has a price they can pay for.

Canon develop some features for the high end models, and disable it for the lower ends ones, so what? it is just normal.

Yes, maybe they made mistake, enabling the veiw of the button without enabling to click on it, but who know if it was really functionnable ?

Today a lot of us think the 4000$ target price is ok, what if it was cheap compared to the engineering and developpment costs ?
If so, it would be normal to see some features unlocked to keep them for higher ends models.
 
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Besisika

How can you stand out, if you do like evrybdy else
Mar 25, 2014
719
141
Montreal
not necessarily .. how would do it? if it was 4K oversampled, it wouldn't be raw. it would either have to be lineskipped or perhaps 1:1 pixel readout which would be like a 2.3x crop factor.
I am interested how Atomos would react about it. 8K prores raw or ninja VI?
 

filmmakerken

EOS R, EOS 10, FTb
CR Pro
Apr 12, 2020
29
21
Virginia
www.cinefoundry.com
I like the layout for selecting recording mode. It looks quick and intuitive. I hope Canon adds a shutter angle option at some point. 8k raw users are going to be buying hard drives In bulk. Looks like you’ll get about 40 min per TB if that’s a blank 512GB card they are using.
You're assuming the card size is 512GB. It may be a 128GB or 256GB card. Based on calculations for other 8K Raw codecs (which are approximately 100Gbs) I'd estimate the camera has a 256GB card inside.
 

herein2020

Run | Gun Shooter
Mar 13, 2020
267
364
U can rig all that up seperate and save thousands. You dont need all that on the camera to make a proper film. Get a couple of these cameras and get a sound guy and you can make a decent film with a low budget. you have plenty of guys using black magic pockets 4k and 6k these days doing narrative work because of the codecs, price, and size. One of the reasons cinema cameras didnt have the same sensor also could be the megapixel difference. 4k is only 8mp. c100 all the way to the c500 had the same MP sensor i think. who is buying an 8mp( actually like 11mp) stills camera? I have a cinema camera. I understand convenience , budget, and necessity. Every job doesnt need the biggest and best camera.
I agree, you can rig nearly anything with a sensor to meet your needs, but my point is, the projects with the budget for cinema cameras isn't going to get this camera instead and the projects that don't have the budget for cinema cameras wouldn't have gotten them even if the R5/R6 weren't available. There is a reason cinema cameras exist and MILCs and DSLRs aren't going to eat much if any into those sales.
 

herein2020

Run | Gun Shooter
Mar 13, 2020
267
364
Effectively, an anamorphic adapter and lens will give you "true" 6k, and everything else is just matteing down the 8k image to the ratio you want or need.
I believe people are wishing for lower resolutions due to file sizes generated by the higher resolutions. Personally I don't think Canon is going to bother with offering additional resolutions, but I do understand the desire to shoot with something over 4K but with output sizes smaller than 8K. It is a little humorous that just 1yr ago everyone was complaining that Canon wasn't doing enough now people are hoping for lower resolution options.

I don't care either way if Canon offers more resolutions, I always deliver in 1080P and 4K give me plenty of re-composition options to work with.
 
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herein2020

Run | Gun Shooter
Mar 13, 2020
267
364
People don't imagine the cost of such engineering, behind a simple feature into a firmware.
Yes, from here it is simple to say the feature is inside the tool and they just locked it, but if you look inside you may understand that it is way more complicated and need a lot of engineering to be developped and to fit every bodies.

For me it is exactly like into TESLAs, you can buy the low cost model without any feature. You have to pay to get these features. Because the developpment cost and the benefit for the customer has a price they can pay for.

Canon develop some features for the high end models, and disable it for the lower ends ones, so what? it is just normal.

Yes, maybe they made mistake, enabling the veiw of the button without enabling to click on it, but who know if it was really functionnable ?

Today a lot of us think the 4000$ target price is ok, what if it was cheap compared to the engineering and developpment costs ?
If so, it would be normal to see some features unlocked to keep them for higher ends models.
I totally get the cost of engineering, but the fact remains that only Canon has a reputation for this. Maybe it is because they have/had way more bodies than other manufacturers and decided they needed to deliberately differentiate them through software vs hardware, maybe it was just a systemic corporate culture and mindset that decided this was the way they would do business, clearly whatever the reasons, it was a formula that exasperated users enough to complain but not enough to leave the Canon family...until Sony came along. No amount of complaining will reach corporate ears until those profit margins start telling a company that users are no longer buying what they are selling.

Nikon, Sony, Panasonic, Fuji, Olympus....all seemed to put every single feature they could squeeze into every single camera body that they made; who knows maybe that's why Canon is on top today, because clearly Canon did not follow this approach. But regardless of the reasons, nothing changes my opinion that Canon crippled their hardware through firmware that locked out features that the hardware could support and that other vendors were supporting at that price point. You can call it product segmentation, differentiation, development costs, or whatever other politically correct term you want to call it; I'm going to say they crippled it to protect another model that already exists or a model that they would soon release; which is something no other vendor seemed to do.

The good news is that this seems like it may be in the past but until we get the full spec sheets for the R5 and R6 it still remains to be seen. The R5 and R6 have clear hardware differentiators which means they have different capabilities which is clearly shown in their differing spec sheets and price points; this is all that Canon users have been asking for since Magic Lantern came along.

Another example is the fact that the R5 does not have the touch sensitive AF button from the 1DX3; sure a few users complained but everyone kind of understands that hardware feature is probably expensive and would have driven up the costs of the R5 to unacceptable levels. IMO wanting to get the full capabilities out of the HW that you paid for and that other vendors are offering is not an unreasonable expectation and when that expectation is not met then I consider the HW crippled via the SW.
 

RobbieHat

EOS 90D
Feb 4, 2015
106
79
55
Rocklin, CA/The Sea Ranch, CA
This really looks like a great camera in so many ways. I'm wondering now if there's any point in waiting for an 80MB version. 45MB is virtually the same as what the 5Ds does, and seems like plenty even for architectural or landscape...
That is the same question I am asking myself. Coming from the 5DSR I was hoping they would upgrade the MP so that when I print large I get even more resolution! I still might add that body once it is released later this year or early next year. As for the 45MP R5, this ticks most of the boxes I have been awaiting for years to upgrade my 5D Mark III and quit using my 5DSR for wildlife, macro, action, etc.

Given improvements in DR, High ISO, flip out screen, etc. I might even replace the 5DSR for astro with this new body and some new R glass.

I am hoping for a super wide, super fast prime or zoom in native mount soon. Don't know if it is coming and until it does will adapt my Sigma fast wide lenses for astro. It would be a dream if Canon offered a retrofit for EF to RF telephoto lenses. I would convert my 600 MM F4 II in a heartbeat! If not, I will likely start rotating out of my EF glass (I have a ton of it) into RF lenses as interesting replacements are introduced and the pricing comes down.

It is going to be an expensive year for sure! Time to save every nickel I can.

Bob
 

herein2020

Run | Gun Shooter
Mar 13, 2020
267
364
I don't think we will be lucky to see Apple Prores Raw on R5. If they do it then R5 will have no competition for many years.
If they send raw over HDMI then we could see ProRes via Atomos. The big question is will they make raw over HDMI available. I don't see why they wouldn't but it remains to be seen.
 

koenkooi

EOS R
CR Pro
Feb 25, 2015
1,379
1,177
If they send raw over HDMI then we could see ProRes via Atomos. The big question is will they make raw over HDMI available. I don't see why they wouldn't but it remains to be seen.
IIRC the R5 has hdmi 2.0, not 2.1, so it will be bandwidth limited for what it can send out over HDMI. I might be getting confused with the 1dx3, though.
 

Besisika

How can you stand out, if you do like evrybdy else
Mar 25, 2014
719
141
Montreal
I don't think we will be lucky to see Apple Prores Raw on R5. If they do it then R5 will have no competition for many years.
I share your pessimism. Just wondering. One of the most anticipated camera of 2020 and no plan to join the party at all? Technology limit might be a good explanation, but still ..
 

RayValdez360

Soon to be the greatest.
Jun 6, 2012
554
338
38
Philadelphia
U can rig all that up seperate and save thousands. You dont need all that on the camera to make a proper film. Get a couple of these cameras and get a sound guy and you can make a decent film with a lowbudget. you have plenty of guys using black magic pockets 4k and 6k these days doing narrative work because of the codecs and price.
U can rig all that up seperate and save thousands. You dont need all that on the camera to make a proper film. Get a couple of these cameras and get a sound guy and you can make a decent film with a low budget. you have plenty of guys using black magic pockets 4k and 6k these days doing narrative work because of the codecs and price. One of the reasons cinema cameras didnt have the same sensor also could be the megapixel difference. 4k is only 8mp. c100 all the way to the c500 had the same MP sensor i think. who is buying an 8mp( actually like 11mp) stills camera?
I agree, you can rig nearly anything with a sensor to meet your needs, but my point is, the projects with the budget for cinema cameras isn't going to get this camera instead and the projects that don't have the budget for cinema cameras wouldn't have gotten them even if the R5/R6 weren't available. There is a reason cinema cameras exist and MILCs and DSLRs aren't going to eat much if any into those sales.
I am saying the need for bigger more expensive cameras is diminishing now that proper codecs are coming to smaller cameras.
 

spomeniks

I'm New Here
Feb 11, 2014
19
10
The thing I love about this leaked photo is that it shows they've changed the way you go about selecting your filming options. The equivalent screen on the 1DX Mark III is a MESS of all the options, right there. The one they're showing here is taking cues from BMPCC and other cine cameras, and looks to be much more intuitive to navigate
 
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RunAndGun

EOS RP
CR Pro
Dec 16, 2011
416
86
Unfortunately, that's wishful thinking.

DGO is not bracketing. It's ADC speedup, using 2 amplifiers and 2 ADCs instead of 1 amplifier and 1 ADC to digitize the charge from the same pixel. It would be good for 20 fps at base ISO, provided that the rest of the camera can cope with the resulting data throughput... the problem is that if you are going to shoot at 20 fps, you will usually want to freeze action, so you won't be doing it at base ISO. So, those extra bits of DR in the light signal (to convert into digital) just won't be there.

Global shutter could be nice for slow-sync flash at any shutter speed, but the existing global shutter designs reduce the DR at base ISO by one stop. People that want to use this camera to shoot landscapes won't be happy.

Besides, both of them generate extra heat and increase battery consumption.
“Dual Gain” has been available for a decade on other cameras and functions just fine above base ISO.

I‘ll take global shutter every single day of the week if given the choice between that or “one stop of dr”(hey, would you prefer RS and 15 stops or GS and 14 stops? Me: GS/14, when talking about video). But in a stills camera and shooting stills, it’s not a big deal unless you’re shooting with the electronic shutter instead of the physical shutter(or in video mode). But to me, that’s one of the benefits of a mirrorless camera, the silent electronic shutter(and even higher frame rate). Although no sound does take some getting used to.

Technology is progressing. All of the GS “un-advocates” always cite a DR penalty, but RED has found a way to do GS and get the DR that they are happy with. The original plans for the new Komodo sensor were to make it switchable between GS and RS, but they were so pleased with the results that they made it it GS only. Heck, my “ancient“(in tech years) F55 (with global shutter) is rated at 14 stops. And the Komodo, while not in official release or finalized firmware yet, I believe is over 14 stops.