8K recording options for the Canon EOS R5 leak

Joules

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Unfortunately, that's wishful thinking.

DGO is not bracketing. It's ADC speedup, using 2 amplifiers and 2 ADCs instead of 1 amplifier and 1 ADC to digitize the charge from the same pixel. It would be good for 20 fps at base ISO, provided that the rest of the camera can cope with the resulting data throughput... the problem is that if you are going to shoot at 20 fps, you will usually want to freeze action, so you won't be doing it at base ISO. So, those extra bits of DR in the light signal (to convert into digital) just won't be there.

Global shutter could be nice for slow-sync flash at any shutter speed, but the existing global shutter designs reduce the DR at base ISO by one stop. People that want to use this camera to shoot landscapes won't be happy.

Besides, both of them generate extra heat and increase battery consumption.
Can you provide a source for your info please? It seems to be pretty different from anything I have seen yet and I am curious if you are basing it on speculation or if there's a place where one could read up in what you are saying.

Edit: to clarify, I am specifically talking about the statements about DGO. The parts where it involves two ADCs and amplifiers as well as that it generates heat (to a degree that that's worth mentioning. Obviously electronics do it to some level).
 
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canonnews

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I thought I remember reading it was a management shakeup at Canon that helped lead to this new R5 mindset – a shakeup related to the bad image Canon had of intentionally feature-limiting their products and losing best-in-class performance status (perceived or otherwise). I think it was the "nanny-limiting" of features that earned Canon the Cripple Hammer™ ridicule more than the tech limitations like crop-4K.
No, it's just internet stupidity.

if you have 5 product lines versus 13 product lines, how you define and spec products will be entirely different.
 

HarryFilm

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Take it with salt:
4K HFR modes (50 - 120p) are achieved using 2 x 2 pixel binning. It's a relatively elegant solution because there's no line-skipping involved. The image will be very soft with lower moire and lower noise compared to other subsampling methods
---

To get your sharpness back use an UNSHARP MASK filter in Photoshop, Adobe Premiere or Blackmagic Resolve or whatever program you use with a 1.5 to 3 pixel radius in order to highlight edges-only within any image. You will see quite the difference in resulting image quality!

.
 

degos

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Mar 20, 2015
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Without the Cripple Hammer™ shame, there never would have been a full-blown R5, there would have been an R5 that was just good enough.
If you're in the market for a video camera that must be great.

Meanwhile the perhaps-affordable R6 isn't any upgrade over an eight-year old 1DX for actual photography. Canon hasn't forgotten how to segment the market...
 

edoorn

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Apr 1, 2016
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I bet an R6 can track a subject troughout the frame much and much better than that 1DX. Getting a subject sharp in focus in movement does matter for actual photography..
 
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Joules

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If you're in the market for a video camera that must be great.

Meanwhile the perhaps-affordable R6 isn't any upgrade over an eight-year old 1DX for actual photography. Canon hasn't forgotten how to segment the market...
Oh, did the 1DX have 20 FPS electronic shutter, IBIS, eye AF (apparently even for animals), great base ISO DR, a swivel screen and an option to be used without the massive vertical grip? I wasn't aware of that. Quite impressive that Canon sold such solid mirrorless tech in an ancient DSLR and nobody noticed! :unsure:
 
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HarryFilm

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This really looks like a great camera in so many ways. I'm wondering now if there's any point in waiting for an 80MB version. 45MB is virtually the same as what the 5Ds does, and seems like plenty even for architectural or landscape...
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Actually, what I do suggest is that SPORTS and ACTION photographers BUY THIS CAMERA to use the 30 fps DCI 8k video recording option to shoot 8192 by 4320 (35.3 megapixels) which is equivalent to shooting 30 fps burst rate stills!

Just add some contrast enhancement, some extra colour saturation and a final UNSHARP MASK filter on all your chosen/exported video frames and you have Newspaper-and-Magazine suitable image quality for your action shots!

I do suggest that you get the FAST f/1.2 50mm and 85mm RF glass that Canon is selling OR for longer reach, put on the Sigma 150-to-600mm Sports Zoom lens using the Canon EF-to-RF Adapter! You WILL BE A VERY HAPPY CAMPER!

Once Canon makes an f/4-to-f/5.6 L-series 135mm-to-650mm RF-mount super-zoom, then all bets are off and Sony and Panasonic are DEAD in the water!

HEY CANON !!!!! Remember all the Sports/Action/Wildlife pros !!! Time to make that 135mm to 650mm super-zoom lens at f/4 to f/5.6 !!!! Make it $4200 or less and you will sell a HUUUUUUUUUUUUGE number of them!

V
 

Joules

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Just add some contrast enhancement, some extra colour saturation and a final UNSHARP MASK filter on all your chosen/exported video frames and you have Newspaper-and-Magazine suitable image quality for your action shots!

I do suggest that you get the FAST f/1.2 50mm and 85mm RF glass that Canon is selling OR for longer reach, put on the Sigma 150-to-600mm Sports Zoom lens using the Canon EF-to-RF Adapter! You WILL BE A VERY HAPPY CAMPER!

Once Canon makes an f/4-to-f/5.6 L-series 135mm-to-650mm RF-mount super-zoom, then all bets are off and Sony and Panasonic are DEAD in the water!
Curious that you suggest unshark mask. Usually you're so into sophisticated and sometimes pretty off the rails approaches to things, I would have thought you'd recommend some nice deconvolution based sharpening method that only gets rounded off by usm ;)

With regards to using a third party (or EF lens, for that matter) Tele lens, unless Canon makes smooth viewfinder available when using the adapter, that may not be such a good suggestion for action.
 

HarryFilm

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Jun 6, 2016
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Can you provide a source for your info please? It seems to be pretty different from anything I have seen yet and I am curious if you are basing it on speculation or if there's a place where one could read up in what you are saying.

Edit: to clarify, I am specifically talking about the statements about DGO. The parts where it involves two ADCs and amplifiers as well as that it generates heat (to a degree that that's worth mentioning. Obviously electronics do it to some level).

I MIGHT be able to answer this as I am ASSUMING that interleaved processing of the incoming raw signals will be done so that pixels processed by each ADC are segmented by horizontal line or via an interleaved 2x2 or 4x4 or 8x8 block of photosites. THAT would definitely speed up processing with little more than a $60 increase in price for the extra ADC.

In terms of global shutter, THAT will be a tad more difficult to do since the ENTIRE sensor has to have individual connections from each photosite to MULTIPLE local processing circuits rather than the typical line-by-line processing done on current CMOS sensors. Canon DOES have a current Global Shutter sensor on C700 Cinema Camera which is FANTASTIC but it's also a $40,000 camera when kitted out!

What I WOULD SUGGEST HOWEVER to reduce costs, it to put in a fast-switching (i.e. 100 microseconds to one millisecond) electrochromic glass plate in front of the entire image sensor so that an ANALOG-style global shutter is realized. A specific amplitude and/or voltage applied to the electrochromic plate will cause it to turn FULLY or PARTIALLY OPAQUE either to SOLID WHITE or SOLID BLACK creating a fancy combined global shutter AND a user-selectable variable setting neutral density filter!

If Canon goes for the more expensive electrochromic formulations, the switching speed can be brought down to 100 microseconds or 1/10,000ths of a second as a global shutter speed which is MORE THAN ENOUGH for most Sports/Action/Wildlife photography AND having that COMBINED variable-step neutral density filter is an ADDED BONUS !!!

V
 

pmjm

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Sep 8, 2016
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Meanwhile the perhaps-affordable R6 isn't any upgrade over an eight-year old 1DX for actual photography. Canon hasn't forgotten how to segment the market...
I don't think it's fair to say this yet. We have no idea what the DR, low-light or new AF enhancements the new sensor on the R6 will have yet.
 
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jayphotoworks

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No, it's just internet stupidity.

if you have 5 product lines versus 13 product lines, how you define and spec products will be entirely different.
It may be internet stupidity, but here is the thing. Nowadays, the internet can get you fired in minutes over social media, lambasted over having an unpopular opinion or simply perceived a particular way good or bad. Canon, through various media outlets, trolls, critics, whomever, etc. have simply perpetuated this perception. Regardless of the reasons, the "cripple hammer" moniker has stuck and although some would like to defend that, with good reasons, the portrayal or perception will need a lot more voices to change or in this case products like the R5 to really shake things up.
 
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RayValdez360

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Is it possible that this sensor is their new 8K sensor that might be used in a flag ship cinema camera like a c700 mk II. In terms of resolution and framerates options it beats all their cameras. It steps on the toes of of the cinema line up for film making and music videos.
 

herein2020

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Mar 13, 2020
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I thought I remember reading it was a management shakeup at Canon that helped lead to this new R5 mindset – a shakeup related to the bad image Canon had of intentionally feature-limiting their products and losing best-in-class performance status (perceived or otherwise). I think it was the "nanny-limiting" of features that earned Canon the Cripple Hammer™ ridicule more than the tech limitations like crop-4K.
What I find interesting is that AFAIK only Canon has this distinction; no other mainstream camera vendor that I am aware of is so well known for crippling their cameras. Sony pushes theirs until they overheat or the battery dies, Nikon relies on Sony for their sensors but for the sake of reliability they don't stray too far from the mainstream but they include every feature they can that won't lead to instability; Panasonic is also reliant on Sony sensors and they throw everything imaginable in the video department at those sensors, not sure about Fuji or Olympus but I've never heard of either deliberately removing features to protect other models.

I think the only thing that made Canon see the light was the mass exodus to Sony products. Corporations only understand one thing....the bottom line and when that starts to get affected in real and measurable ways they finally take action.

People can say all they want...Canon's hardware wouldn't support more capabilities....but Magic Lantern proved otherwise 11 years ago and has been proving otherwise ever since.
 
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herein2020

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Mar 13, 2020
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Is it possible that this sensor is their new 8K sensor that might be used in a flag ship cinema camera like a c700 mk II. In terms of resolution and framerates options it beats all their cameras. It steps on the toes of of the cinema line up for film making and music videos.
it really doesn't, yes on paper sure it beats anything that does not have the same specs, but anyone who has used an actual cinema camera knows nothing else comes close for real production work. Cinema cameras are so much more than specs on paper, everything from the form factor to the rigging options are like night and day vs a MILC or DSLR. Exposure tools, audio tools, timecode jamming, onboard ND filters, XLR inputs.....you won't get any of that with an R5 and those are the tools you need for higher end production jobs.

I also doubt they would use the same sensor in their cinema cameras, I suppose it is possible for cost savings, but I don't think they have ever used the same sensor from their hybrid or photography lines in their cinema lines but I could be wrong.
 

RayValdez360

Soon to be the greatest.
Jun 6, 2012
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it really doesn't, yes on paper sure it beats anything that does not have the same specs, but anyone who has used an actual cinema camera knows nothing else comes close for real production work. Cinema cameras are so much more than specs on paper, everything from the form factor to the rigging options are like night and day vs a MILC or DSLR. Exposure tools, audio tools, timecode jamming, onboard ND filters, XLR inputs.....you won't get any of that with an R5 and those are the tools you need for higher end production jobs.

I also doubt they would use the same sensor in their cinema cameras, I suppose it is possible for cost savings, but I don't think they have ever used the same sensor from their hybrid or photography lines in their cinema lines but I could be wrong.
U can rig all that up seperate and save thousands. You dont need all that on the camera to make a proper film. Get a couple of these cameras and get a sound guy and you can make a decent film with a low budget. you have plenty of guys using black magic pockets 4k and 6k these days doing narrative work because of the codecs, price, and size. One of the reasons cinema cameras didnt have the same sensor also could be the megapixel difference. 4k is only 8mp. c100 all the way to the c500 had the same MP sensor i think. who is buying an 8mp( actually like 11mp) stills camera? I have a cinema camera. I understand convenience , budget, and necessity. Every job doesnt need the biggest and best camera.