Canon announces the RF 800mm F5.6L IS USM and the RF 1200mm F8L IS USM

dcm

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The mainly retired with high disposable income users I see with big whites taking pictures off birds in Florida won't give a damn about the price. To them there is non difference between $12,000 and $20,000.

Reminds me of all the soccer moms at kids athletic events a few years back with a 5D series and EF 100-400L to take photos for their facebook/instagram feeds, often driving large SUVs like Chevrolet Suburbans. Yes, I live in a more affluent town with young people that have high disposable incomes. I don’t know if this still happens - I don’t go out as much since COVID.
 
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I wonder how much wildlife photographers are aware of their impact on the wildlife they're attempting to photograph.

If you want to see an extreme example of how bringing tourists in to photograph wildlife has an adverse impact (despite only "tracks left and photographs taken"), watch "The Year the Earth Changed" (Apple TV) - narrated by David Attenborough. Pay particular attention to the section where they look at the impact on cheetahs.

In the quest to get closer to take photographs of wildlife for instabook, humans are actually making the survival more difficult for the animals they want to photograph.
I saw the program. Sad.
 
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That is the point! Show me an EF super tele owner that doesn't also have TC's. Ethical wildlife photography is becoming more and more prevalent, images that show natural behavior where those animals are 100% comfortable with the un-natural photographer are the direction I keep on hearing about.

I see the EF 600 owner that regularly uses a 1.4 TC become an RF 800 owner with a TC. Despite the MTF's, which are computer generated hypotheticals, 800 is 'better' than 600. And f5.6 with current MILC AF is considerably better than it ever was with EF.
It would be fun to have the 800mm for my bird photography but the reality is there is no substitute for getting close to your subject. Magnification/distance delivers diminishing return.
 
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FramerMCB

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One thing I found quite amazing - beyond the stratospheric pricing - is that both lenses focus very close. Especially when one considers their telephoto length. The 1200mm focuses to 14.1 ft and the 800mm to like 8.3 ft. I have a 70-200mm f/2.8L IS (Mk I, first gen.) and at 200mm it only focuses as close as ~6 ft. So that is very impressive to me. I don't think the 400mm f/2.8L or the 600mm f/4.0L with 1.4x TC's would focus as close. But that's a lot of extra dough for close-focusing and the extra reach (in one piece of equipment). One could buy the 600mm f/4.0L IS, an R3 (or R5 for savings), and the 1.4x or 2x TC for less than the 1200mm. And have more flexibility. Still, the $20k price tag is far less than the $100k of the old Canon 1200mm f/5.6L. Not too mention the 7.3lb weight compared to the 29 lbs. of the older one.
 
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AlanF

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One thing I found quite amazing - beyond the stratospheric pricing - is that both lenses focus very close. Especially when one considers their telephoto length. The 1200mm focuses to 14.1 ft and the 800mm to like 8.3 ft. I have a 70-200mm f/2.8L IS (Mk I, first gen.) and at 200mm it only focuses as close as ~6 ft. So that is very impressive to me. I don't think the 400mm f/2.8L or the 600mm f/4.0L with 1.4x TC's would focus as close. But that's a lot of extra dough for close-focusing and the extra reach (in one piece of equipment). One could buy the 600mm f/4.0L IS, an R3 (or R5 for savings), and the 1.4x or 2x TC for less than the 1200mm. And have more flexibility. Still, the $20k price tag is far less than the $100k of the old Canon 1200mm f/5.6L. Not too mention the 7.3lb weight compared to the 29 lbs. of the older one.
The 400mm and 600mm with 2xTCs do focus as close.
And, more evidence is that the minimum focal distance of the 800/5.6 is 2.6m, close to the 2.5m of the RF 400/2.8 and EF 400/4 III. Similarly, the RF 1200/8 is 4.3m compared with 4.2m for the RF 600/4. TCs don't alter the mfd aside from small geometric changes.
 
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dcm

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It is rational for Canon to minimise costs by just cannibalising old designs, but does it give the best IQ for the customer and is it any advantage to buying 400 or 600 with extenders for much less money and more flexibility? I think this is what the discussion is about.
These products seem more deliberate that cannibalization to me. It was likely a plan from the beginning for the EF family, but RF/COVID interrupted the plan so we are only seeing the fruition now. I expect there is some commonality in the RF600/800 f/11 lenses too. You may also find this in the commonality between the R5 and R6. I expect we will see more examples in the future.

Companies can no longer afford to do one off designs for every product. The focus elsewhere for years has been a systems design with common, reusable parts, processes, assembly lines, and repair to simplify supply chains and manufacturing to create economies of scale that reduce costs and improve profitability. We often think in design language now where a family of products is designed together and rolled out over time where we leverage as much as possible across the entire family. The only differences are the things that are necessary to differentiate the products rather than building everything from the ground up.
 
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Just seen the UK Prices of these lenses !!!
That 1200mm is only £22,449...... Or in USD, that would be $30,000 please.

What? 50% more than the US?
Justification please, or does Canon just hate UK shops?
On top of that, add the fact that at 1200mm and F8 in the UK, you can probably use the lens 20 days a year considering the weather here.
As I write this, I haven't had a session with good light in probably 3 weeks. :cry::LOL:

That difference is nuts, you can definitely fly to the US, buy the lens, take a trip around a few of the many amazing National parks there, and even have some cash left to buy a drink at the airport (probably not Starbucks though)
 
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Who is your insurance through? I’ve been shooting professionally (TV & production) for just shy of 25 years and I’ve never heard any nonsense like that. Please provide some documentation.
Another point I'm used to hearing reg grey imports is that resell value is lower than "legal" lenses. That is also not true, specially if you trade in with shops, not once have I been asked to show proof of purchase let alone "nationality" of the lens.
When I traded in my Sony 100-400, I actually made money.
 
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Dragon

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On top of that, add the fact that at 1200mm and F8 in the UK, you can probably use the lens 20 days a year considering the weather here.
As I write this, I haven't had a session with good light in probably 3 weeks. :cry::LOL:

That difference is nuts, you can definitely fly to the US, buy the lens, take a trip around a few of the many amazing National parks there, and even have some cash left to buy a drink at the airport (probably not Starbucks though)
By the time you pay sales tax in NYC (probably the only place you will find one of these in a store) and then pay your VAT when you get home, you won't have enough left over after your airfare to hit too many national parks . The big issue is that the base price is a bit excessive considering that the new optics-to-the-rear design results in much smaller fluorite elements than those in the EF800. These lenses will be VERY profitable if they can sell them.
 
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AlanF

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By the time you pay sales tax in NYC (probably the only place you will find one of these in a store) and then pay your VAT when you get home, you won't have enough left over after your airfare to hit too many national parks . The big issue is that the base price is a bit excessive considering that the new optics-to-the-rear design results in much smaller fluorite elements than those in the EF800. These lenses will be VERY profitable if they can sell them.
The price over here has just been announced as £19,099: it should be £15,000 based on the US price and adding 20% import duties/vat. We could fly to the US, buy it there and have a couple of weeks holiday shooting with it, and come back with change from the £4,099 difference in price. Canon UK are b*st*rds.
Even if you pay the full 8.875% NYC sales tax and full UK import duty/VAT on the RF 800, it will be £3000 cheaper. You can find UK-USA return flights for £300-400. That still leaves more than £3,600/$4,900 to spend on holidays in the US. I would order one in advance in NH if I could where they have 0 tax.
 
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These products seem more deliberate that cannibalization to me. It was likely a plan from the beginning for the EF family, but RF/COVID interrupted the plan so we are only seeing the fruition now. I expect there is some commonality in the RF600/800 f/11 lenses too. You may also find this in the commonality between the R5 and R6. I expect we will see more examples in the future.

Companies can no longer afford to do one off designs for every product. The focus elsewhere for years has been a systems design with common, reusable parts, processes, assembly lines, and repair to simplify supply chains and manufacturing to create economies of scale that reduce costs and improve profitability. We often think in design language now where a family of products is designed together and rolled out over time where we leverage as much as possible across the entire family. The only differences are the things that are necessary to differentiate the products rather than building everything from the ground up.
This commonality has been the same since Sony started with the A7 and A7R, maybe a lot earlier than that, but what year was that, 2013? xD
 
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Del Paso

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Just seen the UK Prices of these lenses !!!
That 1200mm is only £22,449...... Or in USD, that would be $30,000 please.

What? 50% more than the US?
Justification please, or does Canon just hate UK shops?
The UK lenses are made with extra special care, dedication and love:love: by the very best specialists, so they are thousands and thousands of Pounds better than their inferior US equivalents. You should be grateful instead of complaining!
We happy Europeans, Canon loves us!
 
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Are they really selling us a 5 to 7 thousand dollar teleconverter? Is there really no significant difference between the 400 and 600 with 2xTCs other than the massive price hike, and if so, how do they sleep at night? What am I missing?
Well while it may appear on paper these are just built in TC's it is worth a note that the glass will be paired and aligned up and you can add your own additional TC's to this. If 800mm is your end goal I would go for a 600 and 1.4X. If 800 or even 1200 is just where you want to start then these lenses are you only options from Canon as you can't shove two 2x TC's onto the 600mm and I am sure even if you could that there would be more IQ loss. To my mind these are binned 400 and 600mm lines that have been selected because they can become a 800 and 1200 with acceptable additional TC usage. I am also very much not opposed to Canon re using the same base design to make multiple lenses, if I were them I would also love to be able to use one or two base designs to achieve multiple end goals. As photographers we have to make our buying decisions based on the focal length we want and what IQ we consider acceptable to reach it and with what compromises we are willing to make. I personally will be going for the Nikon 800mm f/6.3 PF lens for the Z mount but I know that PF means there are a few compromises in some situations to reach that and I don't yet know how compromised the IQ will be with the 1.4x and 2x TC.
 
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koenkooi

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[..] I am also very much not opposed to Canon re using the same base design to make multiple lenses, if I were them I would also love to be able to use one or two base designs to achieve multiple end goals.[..]
My issue with these lenses is big price difference between base model + extender and these models. If that difference is purely about manufacturing, I guess Canon said something like "The new tooling costs us $1M USD, let's divide that over the 200 units we're going to produce."

But the weight, focal length and price point are all things that put these lenses in the "not for me" category, so what I think is very irrelevant :)
 
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Having the 800/11 and the RF 100-400mm makes a very good kit for nature photography. I have both and love the 100-400 because it is so sharp and light. I also have the RF 100-500mm, and it's an exceptional lens if you can afford it.
Those zooms have a great reputation, but alas the cost of getting into the R system means they're out of my reach. I'm much more familiar with using primes though, so I don't think I'll feel too restricted.
 
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Someone pointed to a source of the RF lenses with 2xTC MTFs. So here is an update from my earlier post with those MTFs instead of the MkIII MTFs....

I think these do show some improvements with the performance. Although one would hope for more when spending so much. The old 800L has a better MTF than this new 800.

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800L
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Joules

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Those zooms have a great reputation, but alas the cost of getting into the R system means they're out of my reach. I'm much more familiar with using primes though, so I don't think I'll feel too restricted.
Alan is talking about the RF 100-400mm 5.6-8 there, not the much more expensive EF L version.

The RF 100-400mm 5.6-8 actually costs less than the 800mm 11, so it should not be out of your reach unless the prime is too.
 
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