The Canon EOS R1 will come well before the EOS R5 Mark II [CR3]

john1970

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I remain amazed that readers of the numerous rumour sites take to heart any of the long-distance rumours. Canon is notoriously tight-lipped about the development of their pro bodies. The R1 has been rumoured at 100+MP, then 85MP, then 45MP... I suspect and hope for something around 30MP, in the form factor of the 1DXIII, with dramatically improved AF and FPS. Basically, a chunkier R3+++. No GS, no super-high MP, no magical pixie-horses, just an 'incremental' development (allowing for the huge developmental change from SLR to mirrorless) of the 1DXIII. It will cost what it costs, and in the UK it will cost more than anywhere else in the world.
Once I have the full specifications I will have to do a comparison to my R3 which already has 24 MP and 30 fps. The only limitation I have had with the R3 was the limited buffer depth at 30 fps. If the R1 provides a small bump in resolution (24 MP to 28-36MP), and slight increase in speed (30 fps to 40 fps) and huge buffer depth (1000+ frames 14 bit RAW) it would still be a win in my book.

I only make photo books of my photos and for a 300 dpi 8x10 photo one only needs 7.2 MP.

Fun times ahead!!
 
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With lots of new components, the product needs to be heavily tested in a variety of situations. That takes time and costs money, lots of it. It's easier and cheaper to use proven components in a proven design but that doesn't give you a cutting edge product.
On the other hand, Canon has probably been developing the R1 for years, and might want it to be a "statement product". And Canon has a lot of R&D money available.
 
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David - Sydney

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I could imagine a scenario with the R1 having the current R3 body form and the R5ii having the same (or almost the same) specs in a R5 body form. Similar to Z9/Z8 which seems to be a winning strategy for Nikon.
Reusing the R3 body would be a positive way of reusing tried and tested components. Dual Digix X processors has also been a common strategy in the past for 1D bodies rather than having a new single processor.
 
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David - Sydney

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Happy to hear the resolution won\'t be crazy. Fewer good pixels > more small pixels!
Yes, but you can combine / down sample those many smaller pixels into a comparable larger pixel for noise and DR.
Best of both worlds in a sense with 45mp when you want resolution (landscape/portrait etc) and ~11mp (2x2 down sampled) for action. A 85mp (R7 scaled up full frame sensor) would enable ~20mp 2x2 down sampled "raw" images.
The assumption is that the sensor read speed and on-the-fly calculations are sufficient for very fast frame rates for sports. Dual processors could be useful in this scenario eg alternating frames per processor.
 
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David - Sydney

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Would seem strange to me to be less than 45MP and not 8K. Sure 8K is not popular but it might. More FPS becomes meaningless at some point. It would have to be amazing at focusing for action. Sounds like an R3II to be honest. Very hard to make a flagship these days. I have the 1DXIII. It never felt like a flagship.
The obvious comparison will be to the Sony/Nikon flagships A1/Z9 with 45-50mp. A lower resolution would be a primary spec sheet issue but clearly not for current sports photographers.

I haven't heard of complaints from A1/Z9 users of too much resolution though. Even the high speed jpegs from Nikon (45mp @30fps or 11mp @120fps) seem to be sufficient with all the asterisk caveats.
 
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john1970

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That sounds like hyperbole, and is almost certainly not true. Anyone familiar with product development (in any field) knows that using entirely new components is a recipe for disaster, in terms of timeline, reliability, unforeseen issues, cost, etc. It's also why as a consumer you never buy a first gen product.

Highly unlikely Canon would do that for what is targeted to be their top workhorse professional camera. That thing needs to just work.
If one compares the 1Dx Mark III to the 1Dx Mark II there were several new components used in the Mark III that were not used in the Mark II:

Canon 1Dx Mark III vs. Mark II Innovations

With that said, it is assumed that it will work as well!!
 
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jam05

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This all makes sense. Even with a February "announcement", the R5ii wasn't going to be in ordinary customer hands until Q4, anyway. MAYBE this means a Q3 announcement and Q4 customer supply . . . or maybe R5ii customers have a full year to wait. I've been predicting Q4 2024 availability for over a year now, but I'm beginning to wonder.
Q4 is the dead of winter in Canon's major market. For an Olympic year, that's poor marketing unless Canon is not sure it has solved over heating and is simply over cautious of releasing the R5 in the warmer time of year. The original was released in the summer, July 2020
 
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jam05

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Sounds like you've given up on even remotely paying attention to facts. Canon cares about selling the most cameras, and they've done that consistently for the past 20+ years, and dominated the market with a nearly 50% market share for the past several. They are the #1 selling brand of digital camera, ILC, DSLR and mirrorless worldwide. Try to pay attention to the real world, it will make you sound less foolish.
The phrase "Well before" can mean anything. February can be well before April, May, June, July, August.... If Canon releases the R1 in March, that's well before the R5 2020 July release date. It's even well before a May release date.
 
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I just wish they announce both at relatively similar times so we could choose. I think many of use would like to have the opportunity to weight their decision between both.

I'll buy the R1 if it has significant advantages to me over the R5 II : significant more MP (ex 60 vs 45), significant larger/better EVF (please make those huge), or faster/easier way to select people when several are on screen (R3 eye focus don't work with my correction). I would not care much about the rest (although I do enjoy the many 1D benefits), I'd rather go R5 II otherwise (I went from 1Dx to 5D4 as I much needed the MPs) which frankly is my likely choice.

I am sure both cameras will perform well. It is not all about the specs, even if I expect them to play catch up, since they are quite late - the Z9 is more than 2 years old now. But let's remember they did not cheap out on the R5 and it was and still is a great, well rounded camera, that did not feel crippled in any way like some of their past offers (I went 1D3 instead of the 5D2 because I dearly needed precise and fast AF points spread out from the center).

My own concern is time of availability for whatever camera I pick. What I shoot simply disappeared during covid, so I could not shoot during 2020, 2021, and most of 2022, so I choose to skip one generation (the R5) thinking the replacement would come in 2023 due to competition pressure and there were no RF lens I really wanted save for the 85.
If R5 II only comes out end of summer, it means I can start using it in the autumn, then in hindsight the best decision would have been to get the R5 back in mid 2022.
Anyway, wait and see.
 
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Because the world is a better place when Sony Fanboys are sad. :)
This may indeed be true, but seriously, would you really want Canon to try and "out-Sony" Sony? In other words, try to win a spec war by putting out an inferior product that is really a Beta release just to "wow" the influencers? Or would you rather Canon be Canon, not rushing new tech until it is really ready and works reliably and better than expected?
 
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Nov 13, 2023
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I just wish they announce both at relatively similar times so we could choose. I think many of use would like to have the opportunity to weight their decision between both.
Which is exactly why they are not likely to do that. Put out 2 cameras at the same time and more people will buy the cheaper model. Put out the more expensive model first and those who are too impatient to wait any longer will buy it, increasing its sales numbers.
 
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neuroanatomist

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David - Sydney

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Q4 is the dead of winter in Canon's major market. For an Olympic year, that's poor marketing unless Canon is not sure it has solved over heating and is simply over cautious of releasing the R5 in the warmer time of year. The original was released in the summer, July 2020
I'm sure that it was during winter in Sydney when the R5 was released.
 
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David - Sydney

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Why would Canon wait until the winter to release the R5 mk 2? The first R5 was released in July 2020. Summer time. Maybe Canon doesn't want it overheating again. Releasing it in the winter time? Hmm, Maybe they don't have enough of the cooling fans. The low resolution R1 isn't gonna heat up as much. Ok
For the sake of repeating myself again, there were only 3 video modes that had overheating in the R5 at time of launch - 8k raw, 4k120, 4KHQ.

The interweb experts said that Canon couldn't even do 8k timelapse at the time let alone 20 minutes of 8k raw recording. Firmware releases improved the working times from a timer to measuring actual temperatures to adding raw-lite options and then a menu option to allow higher internal temperature before shutting down. Recording externally also allows extended recording times.

The 1D/R3 body is physically bigger which has better heat radiation but the bandwidth could be the same with higher speed fps times a lower resolution. Recording dual CFe cards is an additional source of heat though.
 
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Correct me if I’m wrong , but when a company says they are developing something , it means that is being developed , that it will take time to create it before it hits the market. It’s a product not yet produced.
But all this camera and lens companies , they now want to say: hey we are developing something . And in a week the product is released. I find that very very silly.
Just say : hey I have this product and will be available on this date once we finish few things. Am I wrong ?
you develop up to the day it's released. heck, a lot of software companies release before the software is done.
 
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