The Canon EOS R1 will come well before the EOS R5 Mark II [CR3]

Bob Howland

CR Pro
Mar 25, 2012
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I'm sure Canon solicited feedback from a variety of photographers prior to finalizing the design of the R1. The best time to listen to customers is before you release a product.
Preferably 2 or 3 years before release. The problem with that then is they are potential customers. Actually, the QC manager was talking about after the sale complaining. There is a spec rumor floating around: 30MP, 120FPS, 6.7K 60FPS. That sounds thoroughly believable.
 
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Nov 13, 2023
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Canon should be motivated to have the R1 be a "halo product" that reflects positively on the entire brand. It should be "something special".
I'm not in the market for this camera, but if I was a professional photographer that is going to buy an R1, then I want a camera that is built like a tank, is completely dependable, with 100% well-tested tech that will not fail and makes my shooting experience easy and quick. I would not pay top dollar to be a tech guinea pig. If you want "something special" go buy a Sony and be a beta tester.
 
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danfaz

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Jul 14, 2015
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If you want "something special" go buy a Sony and be a beta tester.
Unrelated, but talking about beta testing. Apparently their newer 200-600 uses a "course pitch" filter thread vs. a standard pitch thread, and it's not disclosed in any literature. Imagine stripping the threads on your expensive lens trying to force your filter on!

 
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Jul 21, 2010
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Preferably 2 or 3 years before release. The problem with that then is they are potential customers. Actually, the QC manager was talking about after the sale complaining. There is a spec rumor floating around: 30MP, 120FPS, 6.7K 60FPS. That sounds thoroughly believable.
Yes, it was clear you were talking about after the sale. I was not talking about asking random people on the street for feedback, but top-shelf long term users...think Canon's Explorers of Light. These are people who are only 'potential customers' in the sense that they have to answer 'yes' when Canon offers them a free camera. Some of them have certainly had prototype R1's in their hands and given feedback to Canon. My point was that Canon is not developing their cameras in a vacuum, they are getting feedback from skilled users under NDA.

That's common in most fields, I've had plenty of experience using prototypes of scientific equipment provided by a manufacturer well in advance of production, and seen my feedback incorporated into the released products.

I agree, 30 MP and blazing fast seems quite reasonable for the R1. It's not what some people want to hear, but it's entirely consistent with Canon's 1-series for the past several cycles.
 
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DrD

Jun 11, 2021
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I'm sure Canon solicited feedback from a variety of photographers prior to finalizing the design of the R1. The best time to listen to customers is before you release a product.

Preferably 2 or 3 years before release. The problem with that then is they are potential customers. Actually, the QC manager was talking about after the sale complaining. There is a spec rumor floating around: 30MP, 120FPS, 6.7K 60FPS. That sounds thoroughly believable.
Above points are so true, maybe worth stating that Canon will use their CPS (Canon Professional Services) database of both individual and corporate customers for this development period, who or how they select pros for product development feedback and testing is unclear (proprietary info). The important part is that Canon has access to a deep pool of serious photographers around the globe who they know have purchased and used their gear for decades.

The rumored specs that Bob alludes to seem not just believable but probably close to a minimum that most people here would expect. The Sony A1 shoots at 50FPS so it is likely that the Canon R1 will exceed that with at least 60FPS, however, Gen 4 CF Express cards (possibly coupled with some form of internal storage too e.g. 1TB M2 on the motherboard) with much higher data transfer, coupled with a new faster stacked sensor, could double that to 120FPS.

This could be the "insane specs" that Andrea at SonyAlphaRumors has been talking about on his YT channel a couple of days ago, that Simon at Ordinary Filmmaker has been also discussing on this YT channel today.

The "insane" part rumored from Andrea who claims to have spoken with one of these product development/testing pros, could be referring to speed of the new R1. It could also be that we are all wrong too in assuming that that the R1 resolution will be somewhere between the R3 and R5. On a positive note, according to Andrea, we shall all learn more in the coming 2-3 weeks. I know the suspense is frustrating.

(fyi, those of you who read these forums and own Canon gear should join Canon Club (if you have not already), register your gear to see how many points you can accrue, then if you are doing paid photography work (or are a serious hobbyist) you can upgrade your subscription to CPS for benefits that are mainly around expedited repair and 15 or 20 percent repair discounts (depending on your membership level). I am an amateur only, but have 1500 Canon Points, so I am eligible for 'Gold' CPS (ranges from Silver -> Gold -> Platinum). Anyone with expensive gear, long lenses etc. and pros that rely on their gear for their business income will likely be very familiar with CPS already.)
 
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I posted this on another thread, but here is the complete list of rumored specs:
  • High-speed autofocus and exposure enhanced by AI recognition
  • Moving object trajectory prediction, high success rate smart object lock focus tracking
  • 30MP full-frame stacked dual-pixel CMOS sensor
  • Purely electronic rolling shutter faster than any mechanical rolling shutter
  • 1/1,250 sec flash sync time (<0.8 millisecond read time)
  • Added 1:3 lossy compression CRAW (compared to lossless compression)
  • Unlimited 40fps (1:2 CRAW) / 60fps (1:3 CRAW) continuous shooting
  • Up to 120fps full-featured continuous shooting
  • Supports 240fps burst continuous shooting mode
  • 1 second pre-shooting
  • Enhanced dynamic range, better than EOS R3 and EOS R5
  • Supports 16-bit DGO-RAW photo shooting
  • In-camera depth of field stack RAW
  • 6.7K 60p & 4.2K 120p (APS-C) 12-bit Cinema RAW Light recording
  • Full-frame/APS-C DCI/UHD 4K 120p C-Log2 & C-Log3 video recording
  • Sleek body optimized for maximum hand feel
 
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Bob Howland

CR Pro
Mar 25, 2012
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I posted this on another thread, but here is the complete list of rumored specs:
  • High-speed autofocus and exposure enhanced by AI recognition
  • Moving object trajectory prediction, high success rate smart object lock focus tracking
  • 30MP full-frame stacked dual-pixel CMOS sensor
  • Purely electronic rolling shutter faster than any mechanical rolling shutter
  • 1/1,250 sec flash sync time (<0.8 millisecond read time)
  • Added 1:3 lossy compression CRAW (compared to lossless compression)
  • Unlimited 40fps (1:2 CRAW) / 60fps (1:3 CRAW) continuous shooting
  • Up to 120fps full-featured continuous shooting
  • Supports 240fps burst continuous shooting mode
  • 1 second pre-shooting
  • Enhanced dynamic range, better than EOS R3 and EOS R5
  • Supports 16-bit DGO-RAW photo shooting
  • In-camera depth of field stack RAW
  • 6.7K 60p & 4.2K 120p (APS-C) 12-bit Cinema RAW Light recording
  • Full-frame/APS-C DCI/UHD 4K 120p C-Log2 & C-Log3 video recording
  • Sleek body optimized for maximum hand feel
I've mentioned recurring vs non-recurring expenses here before. Firmware development is non-recurring. Once the algorithms have been developed and libraries created, it can be reused a relatively low cost. It looks like some of the nifty stuff is firmware and can be used in lesser cameras. It wouldn't surprise me if 80% to 90% of the R&D cost for this camera was software/firmware development.
 
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I posted this on another thread, but here is the complete list of rumored specs:
  • High-speed autofocus and exposure enhanced by AI recognition
  • Moving object trajectory prediction, high success rate smart object lock focus tracking
  • 30MP full-frame stacked dual-pixel CMOS sensor
  • Purely electronic rolling shutter faster than any mechanical rolling shutter
  • 1/1,250 sec flash sync time (<0.8 millisecond read time)
  • Added 1:3 lossy compression CRAW (compared to lossless compression)
  • Unlimited 40fps (1:2 CRAW) / 60fps (1:3 CRAW) continuous shooting
  • Up to 120fps full-featured continuous shooting
  • Supports 240fps burst continuous shooting mode
  • 1 second pre-shooting
  • Enhanced dynamic range, better than EOS R3 and EOS R5
  • Supports 16-bit DGO-RAW photo shooting
  • In-camera depth of field stack RAW
  • 6.7K 60p & 4.2K 120p (APS-C) 12-bit Cinema RAW Light recording
  • Full-frame/APS-C DCI/UHD 4K 120p C-Log2 & C-Log3 video recording
  • Sleek body optimized for maximum hand feel
Hmm It rather looks like a list of wishes to be honest.
 
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Hmm It rather looks like a list of wishes to be honest.
I don't think anything is unrealistic on that list, and the rumor is at least internally consistent (e.g. 6.7K 60p makes sense because a 30 MP sensor results in a ~6700 x 4466 resolution, APS-C crop of that sensor would be 4.2K, CLog2 makes sense if the sensor has DGO tech).

The features are also fairly realistic as far as rumors go. The A9III has proven that 120 fps with full AE/AF is possible at 24 MP at least, and other camera manufacturers have pre-shooting modes.

The things that might be unrealistic is whether DGO tech from the cinema camera lineup makes it and how fast stacked sensor readouts can actually be (the fastest we have is the A1/Z9 which are in the 4 millisecond range).
 
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DrD

Jun 11, 2021
52
51
Hmm It rather looks like a list of wishes to be honest.
Improvements in speed and AF are a given for a flagship body. As is a modest improvement in DR.
Over-sampled 4K video plus a crop mode are a de facto standard on all pro-level MILC.
Resolution at 30MP between R3 and R5 is considered consensus at this juncture.
Electronic-only shutter and inclusion of an AI chip to aid AF subject recognition and tracking are features on many Sony bodies already.
Pre-capture and video features not on the R5/R3 are needed to differentiate the flagship model and keep pace with competitors (Nikon/Sony etc)
So that leaves very little that one could describe as 'unrealistic' or a wish list.

tbh most likely rumored spec list I have seen so far (could be very close to the actual R1 specs)
 
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I don't think anything is unrealistic on that list
Absolutely. It's a list of realistic wishes.
It would be great if the actual R1's specs are close to that list. I'm unlikely to buy the future R1, but I'm hoping for improvements in the R5II which will probably be derived from the R1.
 
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DrD

Jun 11, 2021
52
51
Absolutely. It's a list of realistic wishes.
It would be great if the actual R1's specs are close to that list. I'm unlikely to buy the future R1, but I'm hoping for improvements in the R5II which will probably be derived from the R1.
Agreed. I do not need the speed of an R1 or R3. I will get the R5II and hopefully will get new AF (maybe AI chip), 2 x Gen 4 CF-Express slots etc.
 
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Looking forward to the official R1 specs, and fingers crossed R1 surprises relative to latest rumors. Sold my Z9 for R3 back when both released and am early in the R1 wait list queue, but R1 needs to be more than a warmed-over R3 can could care less about 240fps (if true). R1 needs to be and should be everything the z9 is and more, given how much time Canon has had to leapfrog. Anything less and I'm folding on Canon and will sell-off for z9 system. I prefer Canon ergo to Nikon, which is why held over w/ R3, but want one camera that does it all (like the Z9) and Canon will have exhausted my patience if they don't deliver w/ the R1.
 
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Agreed. I do not need the speed of an R1 or R3. I will get the R5II and hopefully will get new AF (maybe AI chip), 2 x Gen 4 CF-Express slots etc.
I do some concert/action photography, sometimes for money, and I'm pretty happy with what the R5 provides, although the AF could've been slightly better. But it's already so much better than the AF in the 5DIV.

I also do a little bit of birding. AF is quite good for BiF, but again could be better. But I'm a very casual birder.

I do a lot of landscape photography and I basically want/need two improvement in the R5II: higher MP count (~60Mp would be ideal) and less dark noise/hot pixels in long exposures. The R5's pixel population are plagued with the hot pixels so to say. They're multiplying and popping up as you increase the exposure time, starting from around 0.5-1s. The problem is worse than it was in 5DIV and worse than in Sony sensors.
 
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DrD

Jun 11, 2021
52
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I do some concert/action photography, sometimes for money, and I'm pretty happy with what the R5 provides, although the AF could've been slightly better. But it's already so much better than the AF in the 5DIV.

I also do a little bit of birding. AF is quite good for BiF, but again could be better. But I'm a very casual birder.

I do a lot of landscape photography and I basically want/need two improvement in the R5II: higher MP count (~60Mp would be ideal) and less dark noise/hot pixels in long exposures. The R5's pixel population are plagued with the hot pixels so to say. They're multiplying and popping up as you increase the exposure time, starting from around 0.5-1s. The problem is worse than it was in 5DIV and worse than in Sony sensors.
I do a lot of hiking and tried a 10 sec exposure on a small waterfall, using ND 1000 filter with my R5 and got 1 hot pixel! I was still annoyed lol
 
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Del Paso

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Aug 9, 2018
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I once knew a QC manager who wrote that it was the good customers who complained. The bad customers never said a word and just disappeared so you never knew what you had done wrong and what you had to do to get them back.
This was said in my company too. But we were speaking of actual customers, not forum participants!
 
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