The Canon EOS R1 will come well before the EOS R5 Mark II [CR3]

[Bob Howland]

Everything else you write is pure conjecture.

You can't be serious! Sure, there's conjecture but there's a lot of history. Go to DPReview and read Barney Britton's description of the D3 introduction.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Canon has been the largest Japanese camera company since before 1970. (So the introduction of the original F-1 didn't surprise the editors of Modern Photography.) Canon has had enormous inertia for a very long time and management during that time hasn't been able to screw it up.

Largest in what sense? Not in terms of leading the market, at least not continuously. I don’t know the stats for the film era, but as far as digital goes, Canon took the #1 spot in ILCs for the first time in 2003, and at that point Sony led the overall digital camera market (which mainly comprised P&S cameras). In 2003, Canon barely led the ILC market and no camera maker had more than a 25% ILC market share, or more than a 20% share of the digital camera market.

Over the 20 years after 2003, Canon went from not quite leading the camera market and barely leading the ILC market to dominating the camera market with a nearly 50% market share, and is now the #1 brand in digital cameras, ILCs, mirrorless cameras and DSLRs.

But you’d characterize that as ‘not screwing it up’. You are either extremely biased or have a tenuous grasp of reality.

 

[roby17269]

Canon will spec the R1 based on their market research and surveys from their target market, whether that is pro sports and news photographers or some other category of enthusiasts. That is what they will respond to, not to Nikon, Sony or anyone else. If the specs are too similar to the specs of the R3, then they will probably choose to have the R3 be a one-off. Why does that concern so many folks here? Your R3 will still function. You really don't have to concern yourself with Canon's lineup decisions, do you?

Well, sorry but I have to. I have "invested" (in quotes since it's not an investment I expect a financial return from, just joy and satisfaction) in Canon's system to a point where changing to Nikon or Sony would be non-trivial.

So I am concerned from a personal perspective. If Canon does not deliver what I want, I am less happy. Canon decisions may affect, subjectively, the future viability of the system as I see it and, objectively, the resale value of gear and other aspects.

I am not concerned about how Canon's decisions affect the whole market or the general customer population. They're a big successful company and they do not need to take me into any kind of consideration. And they do know waaaay better than me how to serve a big worldwide market. But they do not know better than me how to serve me

Yes cameras and lenses keep working regardless, but even that is simplistic. I have another system (Hasselblad H) which is discontinued. While my gear keeps working indeed, it is not fun to know that eventually repairing issues and buying bodies / lenses will become an issue. I know that Canon's R system is healthy right now so owners of the R3 won't be left in the dust if the R1 will take over that line, so it is not the same, but I am just pointing out that manufacturers' decisions do have an impact on us.

 

[John Wilde]

If the specs are too similar to the specs of the R3, then they will probably choose to have the R3 be a one-off.

My guess is that the specs of the R1 will be significantly better than the R3. They wouldn't want the R1 to be seen as the R3 Mark II.

 

[DrD]

There's a difference which could matter: e-infin have a much more restrictive warranty policy (1 year, conditions) than Panamoz (3 years). The Panamoz website is much more informative ("about us", repairs, costs, custom duties, warranty) than e-infin. In short, they seem very reliable -confirmed by many testimonies- and, my impression, more serious than e-infin in case something goes wrong.

You are spot on, which is why I purchased my camera body from Panamoz, precisely due to the better warranty. Doing my due diligence before buying any gear off discount e-tailers, I always check with TrustPilot and read reviews of buyers in my own jurisdiction. Forums like this one or others can be a valued source of information for those considering buying new camera gear.

 

[Bahrd]

My guess is that the specs of the R1 will be significantly better than the R3. They wouldn't want the R1 to be seen as the R3 Mark II.

I wouldn't mind if they just keep offering R3 as a (significantly) cheaper version of R1.

 

[becceric]

Yeah, but they’re so dark they can only be used at high noon under the twin suns on Tatooine.

Now you've got me looking for a Tatooine photo safari...

 

[Quack]

Well, sorry but I have to. I have "invested" (in quotes since it's not an investment I expect a financial return from, just joy and satisfaction) in Canon's system to a point where changing to Nikon or Sony would be non-trivial.

So I am concerned from a personal perspective. If Canon does not deliver what I want, I am less happy. Canon decisions may affect, subjectively, the future viability of the system as I see it and, objectively, the resale value of gear and other aspects.

I am not concerned about how Canon's decisions affect the whole market or the general customer population. They're a big successful company and they do not need to take me into any kind of consideration. And they do know waaaay better than me how to serve a big worldwide market. But they do not know better than me how to serve me

Yes cameras and lenses keep working regardless, but even that is simplistic. I have another system (Hasselblad H) which is discontinued. While my gear keeps working indeed, it is not fun to know that eventually repairing issues and buying bodies / lenses will become an issue. I know that Canon's R system is healthy right now so owners of the R3 won't be left in the dust if the R1 will take over that line, so it is not the same, but I am just pointing out that manufacturers' decisions do have an impact on us.

Just curious. What exactly do you want Canon to deliver? What do you think can be put into a future camera that will allow you to get photos or video that you can't get now with a current Canon camera? In my opinion, all the cameras being made in the last couple years are very similar in their abilities. What exactly would leave you with concerns about the future viability of the system? I seems to me, that mirrorless cameras are already approaching a maturity that any type of advances will be minor ones, and that there is no threat to the viability of the Canon system.

 

[Quack]

My guess is that the specs of the R1 will be significantly better than the R3. They wouldn't want the R1 to be seen as the R3 Mark II.

Specifically, what specs do you think can be significantly better? It seems like the current generation of cameras are already reaching a maturity that making them significantly better is not realistic. Just my opinion, of course, but it already seems to be happening with the R6 to R6 II, and the last 2 generations of Sony cameras.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Specifically, what specs do you think can be significantly better? It seems like the current generation of cameras are already reaching a maturity that making them significantly better is not realistic. Just my opinion, of course, but it already seems to be happening with the R6 to R6 II, and the last 2 generations of Sony cameras.

What major improvements did the 1D X III offer over the 1D X II? I’m sure there must’ve been some, admittedly I did not pay close attention because the 1D X was still meeting my needs just fine.

I think overall, you’re correct. We are really at the stage of diminishing marginal returns with successive camera releases.

 

[roby17269]

Just curious. What exactly do you want Canon to deliver? What do you think can be put into a future camera that will allow you to get photos or video that you can't get now with a current Canon camera? In my opinion, all the cameras being made in the last couple years are very similar in their abilities. What exactly would leave you with concerns about the future viability of the system? I seems to me, that mirrorless cameras are already approaching a maturity that any type of advances will be minor ones, and that there is no threat to the viability of the Canon system.

I want them to deliver a high res camera (>45mp) and a 35 f/1.2L lens. Among other things. And no, rumors do not count as delivering something imho.
Those are my wants. This is my hobby so I am free to want what I want. I routinely use a Hasselblad with a 80mp digital back and I would glady use a 150mp digital back if I could afford it.

I was specific in writing "viability as I see it", meaning I do not think that the RF system will be not viable if Canon dares to disappoint me. I am well aware that what I want tend to be niche pieces of gear and that Canon pursues a strategy to gain market share so they need to cater for all types of photographers.... I simply meant that if Canon wants my money, they need to deliver what tickles my fancy.

 

[roby17269]

What major improvements did the 1D X III offer over the 1D X II? I’m sure there must’ve been some, admittedly I did not pay close attention because the 1D X was still meeting my needs just fine.

The 1D X mkIII had the first DIGIC X implementation (I think) and in live view had a similar advanced AF as the R5-6. The only other major change I can think of was the new AA filter. I am sure Canon had a long list of improvements that differentiated the mkIII from the mkII. Unfortunately for the "poor" 1D X mkIII, its halo was quickly obscured by the 2 new kidz on the block, the R5 and R6 wunder couple.

I think overall, you’re correct. We are really at the stage of diminishing marginal returns with successive camera releases.

True that, although I do think that the R5 was kind of an outlier in that

 

[DrD]

I want them to deliver a high res camera (>45mp) and a 35 f/1.2L lens. Among other things. And no, rumors do not count as delivering something imho.
Those are my wants. This is my hobby so I am free to want what I want. I routinely use a Hasselblad with a 80mp digital back and I would glady use a 150mp digital back if I could afford it.

I was specific in writing "viability as I see it", meaning I do not think that the RF system will be not viable if Canon dares to disappoint me. I am well aware that what I want tend to be niche pieces of gear and that Canon pursues a strategy to gain market share so they need to cater for all types of photographers.... I simply meant that if Canon wants my money, they need to deliver what tickles my fancy.

The RF 35mm should be along soon (hopefully f1.2 like 50 mm and 85 mm - will complete the fast primes). R5 II will likely be the high res body, or they could do an R5II plus higher MP version like Canon did before with the 5DSR? RF lenses are not cheap, ergo Canon will want your cash... they just appear to be marching to their own drumbeat when it comes to new product offerings.

 

[Del Paso]

You are spot on, which is why I purchased my camera body from Panamoz, precisely due to the better warranty. Doing my due diligence before buying any gear off discount e-tailers, I always check with TrustPilot and read reviews of buyers in my own jurisdiction. Forums like this one or others can be a valued source of information for those considering buying new camera gear.

I learned about Panamoz from other forum members...

 

[Elmonducky]

"If this rumor is true"

Perhaps I should have worded it "if this rumor turns out to be true"?

 

[roby17269]

The RF 35mm should be along soon (hopefully f1.2 like 50 mm and 85 mm - will complete the fast primes).

I truly, sincerely hope you are right! But there have been so many conflicting rumors on it... we need to see the official announcement

R5 II will likely be the high res body, or they could do an R5II plus higher MP version like Canon did before with the 5DSR?

Who knows? we need the official announcements

RF lenses are not cheap, ergo Canon will want your cash... they just appear to be marching to their own drumbeat when it comes to new product offerings.

Of course they are and I do not pretend they should change theirs to suit mine.

 

[Del Paso]

Perhaps I should have worded it "if this rumor turns out to be true"?

I only wanted to stress out that rumors are what they are, no need to think of a Nikon yet. In a few weeks, we'll know real facts about the R1.

 

[A Camera]

I suspect that Canon is doing what they did when they originally released the 1D. With technology changing as fast as it is now with mirrorless cameras it makes sense to have two 1 series lines again. Previously when they released the 1D it took about a year before they released the 1DS which had almost triple the resolution. Every S series camera after that had at least double the resolution of the 1D before it. They were pretty consistent with releasing it about 1 year after, but in one case they released them both in the same year and one time 18 months apart. I suspect that within 2 years we will see a R1S that has at least double the resolution of the R1, its possible we get the R1S announced with the R5 MK ii. Maybe it's wishful thinking, but it makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[scyrene]

I suspect that Canon is doing what they did when they originally released the 1D. With technology changing as fast as it is now with mirrorless cameras it makes sense to have two 1 series lines again. Previously when they released the 1D it took about a year before they released the 1DS which had almost triple the resolution. Every S series camera after that had at least double the resolution of the 1D before it. They were pretty consistent with releasing it about 1 year after, but in one case they released them both in the same year and one time 18 months apart. I suspect that within 2 years we will see a R1S that has at least double the resolution of the R1, its possible we get the R1S announced with the R5 MK ii. Maybe it's wishful thinking, but it makes a lot of sense to me.

But they had different sensor sizes as well, that's not coming back, so the differentiation is just res? In a smaller market I'm not sure that makes sense. If they were to have too

 

[A Camera]

But they had different sensor sizes as well, that's not coming back, so the differentiation is just res? In a smaller market I'm not sure that makes sense. If they were to have too

True, the 1 series S cameras were different size sensors. But they did make the 5DS as a high resolution 5 series which were already full frame. No way to know if they will go that route, but since they launched the R series it has really revived their company earnings. So maybe it would make sense to diversify offerings in the pro market as well. It could also explain the whiplash of specs in the rumor mill. Probably just wishful thinking.