CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 2

Canon Rumors Guy

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<p><strong>Part 2: PowerShot

<span style="font-weight: normal;">There are a lot of PowerShot fans out there, and Canon has unleashed another pile of cameras for you folks to choose from.</span></strong></p>
<p>*NOTE* These opinions are loose and based the specifications of the products and initial impressions. I will delve deeper next week.</p>
<p><strong>PowerShot G12

<span style="font-weight: normal;">A very small upgrade to the popular G11. We can assume Canon is just coasting with this series of camera, they’ve had no real competition. The P7000 may look like a G11, but if it continues the Coolpix heritage, Canon doesn’t have much to worry about. </span></strong></p>
<p>Should it have been more of an upgrade? It depends who you ask, but all people were criticizing with the G11 was the lack of HD video. That’s been somewhat rectified with 720p.</p>
<p><strong>PowerShot S95

<span style="font-weight: normal;">Pretty much the same type upgrade as the G12. I’ll find out next week if the looseness of the back wheel has been fixed. I hear it’s still a problem for some people. </span></strong></p>
<p><strong>PowerShot SX30 IS

<span style="font-weight: normal;">Initial impressions? Completely absurd, an equivalent of an 24-840mm lens? </span></strong>Canon has lead the megapixel war, in some cases, too far. Now they’re leading the insane zoom war.</p>
<p>I’m going to be very interested in the results one will get at 840mm on an overcast day.</p>
<p><strong>PowerShot SD4500 IS

<span style="font-weight: normal;">This will probably become a very popular camera with travellers and the like. Women will also gobble up its small size and big zoom. I think it’ll be a sales winner. </span></strong></p>
<p><strong>PowerShot SX130 IS

<span style="font-weight: normal;">A budget series continues. Not much to say about it. </span></strong></p>
<p><strong>What’s missing from the PowerShot announcements?

<span style="font-weight: normal;">The first camera that comes to mind is a replacement for the D10. Canon’s first go at a waterproof camera had some serious ups and downs. I have heard there is going to be another waterproof camera or two, an announcement time for it/them is unknown.</span></strong></p>
<p>Outside of that, everything that was expected came down the pipe. Very few are asking for a larger sensor PowerShot anymore, we all seem to be waiting for Canon’s version of a mirrorless interchangeable lens camera.</p>
<p>Safe, calculated and truly Canon. That’s how I’d describe the direction of PowerShots.</p>
<p><strong>More 60D Stuff

<span style="font-weight: normal;">After seeing what Nikon threw out there with the D7000, coming in at $100 more expensive than the 60D. there’s a perception Canon dropped the ball on this one. I think the 60D looks about $100 overpriced now.</span></strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="font-weight: normal;">That being said, Canon will still sell a lot of them to upgrading Rebel users. There are more Rebels out there than any other DSLR.</span></strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="font-weight: normal;">The D7000 is going to take new DSLR buyers away from Canon, but I don’t think it’ll make too many people switch.</span></strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
 

neuroanatomist

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Canon Rumors said:
PowerShot S95

Pretty much the same type upgrade as the G12. I’ll find out next week if the looseness of the back wheel has been fixed. I hear it’s still a problem for some people.
Doesn't seem to be a problem for me. I haven't used an S90 so I don't have a benchmark for comparison, but on my S95 I notice the rear dial has little detents as you rotate it, and so far I've never accidentally applied EC. I have accidentally pressed the shortcut button (set to Servo for me) on several occasions, but that changes the focus box to blue so there's an immediate and obvious indicator.

Based on the specs, for those who don't require 720p the S95 isn't an upgrade from the S90. As someone who pondered getting a P&S for quite some time (can't always bring the 7D along :( ), long enough that the S95 came out while I was pondering, it's a great little camera!
 
C

CameraAddict

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CR wrote:
"That being said, Canon will still sell a lot of them to upgrading Rebel users. There are more Rebels out there than any other DSLR.
The D7000 is going to take new DSLR buyers away from Canon, but I don’t think it’ll make too many people switch."
Really, upgrading Rebel users could very well have few or no lenses other than the kit lenses, making upgrade to the D7000 an easy task. In addition, taking new DSLR buyers should be what both manufacturers want. After all, once you buy cameras then buy a bunch of lenses, the camera gods of the internet say you can't switch ;-).

But seriously, for me, a 50D user, the effective Canon xxD demotion and then the Nikon move has led me to scratch new Canon lenses off my list. It's time to stop investing in Canon because they no longer offer a camera for me and I don't know when in the foreseeable future they will. I don't want to move up to 7D for features I don't need. I'd rather have a camera and a new lens for the price, which is what I can get for the same money if I move to Nikon (the 18-105 kit lens is supposed to be a really high performer). I'll become a hybrid user. Shooting with both manufacturers' cameras can certainly do nothing but help my photography. If nothing else, it will make it more interesting....My future investment in lenses will be extremely tentative and completely contingent upon who produces the most inviting technology. But I'm no longer a Canon-only person and I've been buying Canons since 2003....
 
J

Justin

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I agree with your premise. I too am holding off on purchasing any more canon glass. Nikon's offerings are looking to be as strong in the glass arena anyway (*awaiting reviews of the new primes). I've always envied the 14-24. I'm waiting for the full frame D700 successor or the 5D2 successor to make decision about any more glass. I already know there is a really sweet little backup camera in the 7000 for me if I decide to switch. I'm tempted to add the kit anyway and see how I like it, again, pending reviews. Nikon kicked the snot out of Canon on paper. C

CR guy: On paper the features of the 7000 over the 60D are worth much more than $100! I'd say $300. But not in one direction. Canon needs to rethink their pricing on the 60D if reviews confirm the specs. I'd say $899. And the Nikon, if it lives up to its good name, is basically just eating a $100.

Bold move Nikon, bold move indeed. I love competition.

CameraAddict said:
CR wrote:
"That being said, Canon will still sell a lot of them to upgrading Rebel users. There are more Rebels out there than any other DSLR.
The D7000 is going to take new DSLR buyers away from Canon, but I don’t think it’ll make too many people switch."
Really, upgrading Rebel users could very well have few or no lenses other than the kit lenses, making upgrade to the D7000 an easy task. In addition, taking new DSLR buyers should be what both manufacturers want. After all, once you buy cameras then buy a bunch of lenses, the camera gods of the internet say you can't switch ;-).

But seriously, for me, a 50D user, the effective Canon xxD demotion and then the Nikon move has led me to scratch new Canon lenses off my list. It's time to stop investing in Canon because they no longer offer a camera for me and I don't know when in the foreseeable future they will. I don't want to move up to 7D for features I don't need. I'd rather have a camera and a new lens for the price, which is what I can get for the same money if I move to Nikon (the 18-105 kit lens is supposed to be a really high performer). I'll become a hybrid user. Shooting with both manufacturers' cameras can certainly do nothing but help my photography. If nothing else, it will make it more interesting....My future investment in lenses will be extremely tentative and completely contingent upon who produces the most inviting technology. But I'm no longer a Canon-only person and I've been buying Canons since 2003....
 
T

tzalmagor

Guest
Justin said:
Nikon's offerings are looking to be as strong in the glass arena anyway (*awaiting reviews of the new primes). I've always envied the 14-24.
Being aware this borders on hearsay, I'll repeat this in hope someone could expand on the subject.

Having read the reviews about the Nikkor 14-24mm a short while after it came out, I felt envy as well. Then one of the guys I trust at the local photo shop said that Nikon have made a lens that gets good results on what's easy & common for testers to check, such as sharpness, but is inferior in areas harder to quantify and grade, such as the quality of colors and amount of light absorbed by the lens' elements.

Then he said to wait and see how many copies of the lens would show up in the shop's used lenses section as an indication of how happy the buyers are with it. Sure enough, there are a couple of them there already, I guess because the buyers were disappointed with it.

I'm far from being an expert on the subject, and therefore find it hard to evaluate the guy's claims. Maybe there are other participants who could throw more light on the issue.
 

awinphoto

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Aug 26, 2010
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CameraAddict said:
CR wrote:
"That being said, Canon will still sell a lot of them to upgrading Rebel users. There are more Rebels out there than any other DSLR.
The D7000 is going to take new DSLR buyers away from Canon, but I don’t think it’ll make too many people switch."
Really, upgrading Rebel users could very well have few or no lenses other than the kit lenses, making upgrade to the D7000 an easy task. In addition, taking new DSLR buyers should be what both manufacturers want. After all, once you buy cameras then buy a bunch of lenses, the camera gods of the internet say you can't switch ;-).

But seriously, for me, a 50D user, the effective Canon xxD demotion and then the Nikon move has led me to scratch new Canon lenses off my list. It's time to stop investing in Canon because they no longer offer a camera for me and I don't know when in the foreseeable future they will. I don't want to move up to 7D for features I don't need. I'd rather have a camera and a new lens for the price, which is what I can get for the same money if I move to Nikon (the 18-105 kit lens is supposed to be a really high performer). I'll become a hybrid user. Shooting with both manufacturers' cameras can certainly do nothing but help my photography. If nothing else, it will make it more interesting....My future investment in lenses will be extremely tentative and completely contingent upon who produces the most inviting technology. But I'm no longer a Canon-only person and I've been buying Canons since 2003....
Comparing the D7000 to the 60D may but may not be entirely fair since I'm not sure if they are completely each others competitors... The D7000 is geared above the D90 and below the D3000... with Canon restructuring the xxd to compete against the D90 and it's competitors and the 7D squared off against the D300S, the D7000 is/was geared against what the xxD series was... so it's nearest competitor is the 50D to pit apples to apples... While closer in term of features minus video and AF, the D7000 is the better camera in this comparison. That being said, if you want to switch to Nikon only or both, do it... Dont gripe or hesitate... dont troll or dont waver... it's a business decision, as these investments aren't cheap. There are a plethora of cameras from all the manufacturers, choose what best floats your boat and stick with it... Just dont try to stir the pot wavering and griping. One thing to keep in mind, the last i heard, due to the mount size of the canon lenses, Nikon lenses can be used on canon cameras via adapters, however as far as i'm aware, Canon glass cannot be used properly on nikons because the canon mount size is bigger than nikons... so even if you got an adapter, AF and infinity may be an issue on the nikon cameras with canon glass... Things may have changed but that was the word as of 2 years ago... Good luck with ur ventures and nokin stuff and i'm sure canon will lose sleep over your departure, but if you're going to do it, do it... just dont whine on here...
 

Mark D5 TEAM II

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After seeing what Nikon threw out there with the D7000, coming in at $100 more expensive than the 60D. there’s a perception Canon dropped the ball on this one. I think the 60D looks about $100 overpriced now.

That being said, Canon will still sell a lot of them to upgrading Rebel users. There are more Rebels out there than any other DSLR.

The D7000 is going to take new DSLR buyers away from Canon, but I don’t think it’ll make too many people switch.
$100 is being too kind. Drop the 60D to $900 and it will outsell the D7K, problem solved. Drop the 500D to $600 and 550D to $750 and there would be no need for a 2000D, another problem solved. Heck, they could even drop the 7D price to $1400 and it would kill the D7K, the same way the latter would kill any more D300s sales :p. Canon can and should just sandwich that model price-wise. Afterwards, they could fire their product planners and some of the higher-ups who continue to spout arrant nonsense like Maeda and Westfall.
 
E

EGA65

Guest
"PowerShot SX30 IS
Initial impressions? Completely absurd, "

I'm pretty bummed about the SX30. I don't think the super Zooms are gimmicks like so many people seem to. They are great for traveling without spending an arm and a leg on higher end equipment as well as being compact (I only travel with one small rucksack). BUT, this just reeks of one up man ship at the cost of everything else. After seeing the G12 I was Hoping the SX30 would be a SX24 with the improvement to low light photography, HDR and the other improvements.
This one does seem like a gimmick and I waited months to find out about it. Talk about feeling deflated. :-\
 
P

PaulRivers

Guest
Canon Rumors said:
<span style=\"font-weight: normal;\">Pretty much the same type upgrade as the G12. I’ll find out next week if the looseness of the back wheel has been fixed. I hear it’s still a problem for some people. </span></strong></p>
<p><strong>PowerShot SX30 IS
From who? As a regular reader of the dpreview forums, I've heard exactly one complaint about the new rear wheel. Which was from someone who played with a camera in a store but never actually used it, and which was followed up by several people responding by saying they really thought the new rear wheel was perfect and had fixed all the issues with the old one. I have one myself - I really think the s95 wheel is about perfect.

And believe me - if people didn't like the redesigned rear wheel on dpreview, there would be a TON of bitching, moaning, and complaining about it, lol.
 
C

Cornell

Guest
A few thoughts:

1. IMHO, the 60D is really a T2i Mk II.
2. Rather than coming out with the 60D, it should have ended the xxD series and admit that if you want a prosumer camera you will have to pay higher price for a camera which is not competitive with the Nikon’s lower end prosumer camera (now the D7000).
3. I have been strictly a Canon Camera user since I bought my first SLR (an AE-1) in very late 1980 or very early 1981 – going on 30 years ago. One of the camera groups to which I belong part of a computer club. One of the members who wants to move from an advanced P&S to a DSLR and asked for comments concerning Nikon vs. Canon. I gave a detail explanation why she should go for Nikon and mentioned that if I did not have so many Canon lenses, including an L-series 500mm lens, my next DSLR would be a Nikon. Unless and until Canon changes course, I will continue to do the same. That’s right, a Canon camera-system user for nearly 30 years is recommending Nikon over Canon.
 
J

Justin

Guest
I've recommended Nikon twice in the past year. The D7000 will up that ante for sure. As I've said before. I'm waiting for a 5D3 or a 3D or a Nikon D800 to make my mind up as to stay with Canon or not. Really, what is eating me right now are the lenses that Nikon keeps putting out: 24 1.4; 35 1.4; 85 1.4 VC; 14-28 2.8; 24-120 4 VC. Canon please refresh or release the following lenses so I can stop envying Nikon users.

24-70 2.8 IS
35 1.4 IS
85 1.4 IS
14-24 2.8

Yes IS. It rocks for video. For a camera on a windy day on a tripod. For handholding in dark places. I dont' see the downside. Other do, but it's always hypothetical: "it ruins IQ, or it adds to much to the price." I don't see proof in these arguments.






Cornell said:
A few thoughts:

1. IMHO, the 60D is really a T2i Mk II.
2. Rather than coming out with the 60D, it should have ended the xxD series and admit that if you want a prosumer camera you will have to pay higher price for a camera which is not competitive with the Nikon’s lower end prosumer camera (now the D7000).
3. I have been strictly a Canon Camera user since I bought my first SLR (an AE-1) in very late 1980 or very early 1981 – going on 30 years ago. One of the camera groups to which I belong part of a computer club. One of the members who wants to move from an advanced P&S to a DSLR and asked for comments concerning Nikon vs. Canon. I gave a detail explanation why she should go for Nikon and mentioned that if I did not have so many Canon lenses, including an L-series 500mm lens, my next DSLR would be a Nikon. Unless and until Canon changes course, I will continue to do the same. That’s right, a Canon camera-system user for nearly 30 years is recommending Nikon over Canon.
 

neuroanatomist

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Justin said:
...the lenses that Nikon keeps putting out: ...85 1.4 VC...

85 1.4 IS

Yes IS. It rocks for video. For a camera on a windy day on a tripod. For handholding in dark places. I dont' see the downside. Other do, but it's always hypothetical: "it ruins IQ, or it adds to much to the price." I don't see proof in these arguments.
Forst off, Nikon calls it VR, not VC (the latter is Tamron's lingo). Second, and more significantly, when did Nikon release an 85mm f/1.4 with VR? The just released a new 85mm f/1.4G, but it doesn't have VR as far as I can see. Am I missing something?
 
C

Cornell

Guest
Justin,

According to the Nikon lens web page, neither of the 85 mm f/1.4 lenses has VR: neither the newly announced one nor the predecessor which is still listed by Nikon.
http://www.nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/Camera-Lenses/index.page

Because you used VC which is Tamron’s designation, I went to the Tamron online catalog. It does not show an 85 mm lens. The closest that the Tamron catalog shows is an AF 90 mm Di Macro; but, it does not have VC.
http://www.tamron-usa.com/lenses/prod/assets/pdfs/spec_sheets/full_line_cat.pdf
 
C

Canon 14-24

Guest
neuroanatomist said:
Forst off, Nikon calls it VR, not VC (the latter is Tamron's lingo). Second, and more significantly, when did Nikon release an 85mm f/1.4 with VR? The just released a new 85mm f/1.4G, but it doesn't have VR as far as I can see. Am I missing something?
There is a Nikon 85 3.5 VR Macro.
 
C

Canon 14-24

Guest
tzalmagor said:
Justin said:
Nikon's offerings are looking to be as strong in the glass arena anyway (*awaiting reviews of the new primes). I've always envied the 14-24.
Being aware this borders on hearsay, I'll repeat this in hope someone could expand on the subject.

Having read the reviews about the Nikkor 14-24mm a short while after it came out, I felt envy as well. Then one of the guys I trust at the local photo shop said that Nikon have made a lens that gets good results on what's easy & common for testers to check, such as sharpness, but is inferior in areas harder to quantify and grade, such as the quality of colors and amount of light absorbed by the lens' elements.

Then he said to wait and see how many copies of the lens would show up in the shop's used lenses section as an indication of how happy the buyers are with it. Sure enough, there are a couple of them there already, I guess because the buyers were disappointed with it.

I'm far from being an expert on the subject, and therefore find it hard to evaluate the guy's claims. Maybe there are other participants who could throw more light on the issue.
I would personally say Nikon's offerings are stronger or most evident in the FX ultra wide angle zooms (14-24/2.8, 16-35/4.0 VR, 17-35 2.8 ) compared to Canon's 16-35/2.8 and 17-40/4.0 excluding the new fisheye zoom, because I personally find it really isn't meant as a zoom.

In regards of the 14-24 I would say it's almost a very specialized lens, some would say more landscape oriented and some could use it for low-light receptions. There could just be numerous factors in regards of customer returning it, such as maybe they don't use it enough to justify the costs of having it, maybe as landscape photographers they need to have the ability to use neutral density filters (like on the 16-35/4.0 VR or 17-35/2.8 ), the paranoia of dragging around an exposed bubble front lens - not to mention the poor quality cap of the 14-24 lens is horrendously designed compared to like the solid twist-on caps of the bubble-front17mm ts-e canon lens. A scenario that may be occurring are many of these people are rushing to buy the lens based on excellent reviews without really experimenting and testing out the lens beforehand. When it comes to handling the lens and dealing with the various example factors such as the exposed front element and the downsides of not being able to use front filters, some individuals might find it's just not the lens for them and other alternative Nikon options might fit their needs more.

But these factors alone, or the amount of 14-24 lenses for sale I believe don't really correlate to the reasoning if a lens is good or bad, the 14-24 is a superb lens in the field and does what it needs to do given the focal length and other competition in the field. Customer satisfaction for that lens can be hard to justify without asking or receiving feedback from those original owners as the reasoning behind parting with the lens. Some of the perspectives I provided may provide some examples in why they might not be satisfied, but I personally haven't heard anyone returning the lens because they weren't satisfied with the overall image quality of it. Most of the time it was because they don't use it as much, the angle of view was to wide for use to their shooting style/photography, and/or they need the ability to use filters.

On a similar related note, I sold a 17mm TS-E for the now 24mm TS-E II (as when shooting waterfalls I did want the ability to use ND filters). I shoot mainly landscapes and from my experiences in places in a desert sandy regions, up close along sandy coastal beaches, or in high windy elevations I always feel paranoid shooting with an exposed front element. Two experiences I've had are dust/sand specks scratching the front element of my 15mm fisheye along a mild/moderate windy beach environment and a B+W UV filter was marked/impacted in two areas from dust/sand specks shooting on top Angel's Landing at Zion National Park on my 24-105mm lens in mild/moderate windy conditions at the time. While I'm sure the newer lenses now have better coatings than maybe an older 15mm fisheye, I am probably scarred in whipping out any exposed front element lens in any mild windy conditions where there is plenty of sand to go around.

Canon Rumors said:
A very small upgrade to the popular G11. We can assume Canon is just coasting with this series of camera, they’ve had no real competition. The P7000 may look like a G11, but if it continues the Coolpix heritage, Canon doesn’t have much to worry about.
Should it have been more of an upgrade? It depends who you ask, but all people were criticizing with the G11 was the lack of HD video. That’s been somewhat rectified with 720p.
I am asking why the f/2.0 at the wide end of the lens like the S9x series wasn't added, or expanding it to 24mm over 28mm...those are my biggest criticism.
 

neuroanatomist

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Jul 21, 2010
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Canon 14-24 said:
neuroanatomist said:
First off, Nikon calls it VR, not VC (the latter is Tamron's lingo). Second, and more significantly, when did Nikon release an 85mm f/1.4 with VR? The just released a new 85mm f/1.4G, but it doesn't have VR as far as I can see. Am I missing something?
There is a Nikon 85 3.5 VR Macro.
Sure, but f/3.5 is a far, far cry from f/1.4! One is a macro lens, the other is a portrait lens. Canon's 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS can take reasonable portraits, but it's near the edge of having a thin enough DoF for that. Taking away 15mm and narrowing the aperture by 2/3 means the Nikon is not a good lens for portraits.