Fuji thoughts

[Haydn1971]

Having had a EOS-M for three years, I'm getting seriously disappointed with the lack of native glass for the mount. I've started thinking towards buying into the Fujifilm range.

What do I miss in the EOS-M range, I want a few fast primes, I'm attracted to the 23mm f1.4 and 56mm f1.2 in the Fujifilm range, but then I think, would I get the most out of these on a simple X-E2 or X-M1 ? Then start looking at the X-T1 which has hipster style, twiddly dials on the body and so on... I'm now at £2500 with an X-T1, 18-135mm, 23mm and 56mm - that's kinda more than me simply buying a Canon 50mm f1.2 and a Samyang 50mm for the EOS-M.

Have I lost the plot, what's the real benefits of going Fujifilm for my second camera, what's the pitfalls, would a 23 & 56 be a bit silly on the X-E2 ? Help me !

 

[archiea]

Haydn, being "fuji curious" myself, I'm not sure how much help I can be other than a fellow "drinking buddy".

I'm full blown canon with the 5D and complement of lenses. I liked the M3 because it was basically a small form factor EOS body. I was an M original owner, FYI. The native lenses were more than acceptable for intent of having "a camera with me all the time besides the iPhone". I was also looking for something that I could use my canon speed lights and remotes and yes, the eos-m3 is essentially a small form factor EOS body that gives me the same functionality as any other EOS body but in a smaller and in some cases slower package. I could travel with this camera with the smaller footprint and to sacrifice the complexity that I would perhaps still maintain (shooting with light modifiers on speed lights remotely). What I did to make up for the lack of high speed primes on the Eos-m is to get a Eos-m to Leica-M mount sot that I could take advantage of the smaller leica mount primes that are out there and keep the profile small. the focus peaking took care of two things: the fact that these were manual lenses, and any "slowness" of the AF.

I really enjoy using the M3 in order to keep with the Canon "family" of gear. I found that the ef-m 11-22, 22mm pancake and the 18-55 allows me to cover the light events where I'm not hired as a pro, but want coverage better than an iPhone. I'm curious of the 55-250mm because I have heard good things from it. I would probably snag it up (in light grey to help it function in the sun) if I were to go on a trip.

That being said I still haul the 5d on some trips because the full size sensor, Pro lenses, low light support is something that Id feel stupid not having on a trip if I already paid for the gear!

Why do I bring up all of this back story? Its because I think the fuji system solves the question or concern of having a native pro lens line up in tow with the small form factor. A big contribution to the success of the Fuji is the fact that they have a lens system that is uncompromising where one could just pick up the fuji system, and shoot as they did before.

I'm a big fan of the X-t1 because it solves two big issues I have with the M. Lens selection and speed. Whats not often reported from M users because its usually blames on the AF system is the actual slowness of the camera. Its powershot slow, not rebel slow. Rebels can be slow because the small size of the buffer, but power shots are slow because they are slow! I have a friend withe the xt-1 and I've shot fuji native lenses as well as the same leica-M lenses I used on the M3. The fuji's shutter response is on par with dslrs.

If you want to transition from the M to fuji with the intent on investing on their lens system, I can't really think a reason not to other than the expense. But I think you get a lot for your money. Fuji is heavy vested in their system as a professional system while at best, canon is positioning the M as a lifestyle camera. And hauling the ef-m to ef adapter to connect the HUGE L lenses to the M is just pointless. I'd rather use rangefinder lenses.

to summarize the fuji advantage over the M, specifically the xt-1:

1) weather sealed body along with some lenses turns it into a true street camera.

2) HUGE viewfinder second to none with several focus assist options for manual lenses.

3) faster shutter response

4) "Snappier" focus peaking compares to canons. I find that the "clipping" that the focus peaking does allows you to find the focus much faster than canon;s focus peaking which peak too "quickly" and "longer" over a range of focus that may not represent the fine tune focus of a lens wider than 2.8. Again I've manually focused on the M and the x-t1 using the same exact Lecia-m mount lenses (voitglander f1.5 50mm to be exact) and I found it easier to lock in critical focus with he x-t1's "snappier" or "higher clipping" focus peaking than the canons.

5) full inventory of full featured pro and non pro lenses. These lenses are smaller and lighter than their canon counterparts. They offer the added benefit from fuji as to having an aperture ring on them as well for a more tactile experience to go with their tactile bodies.

6) Smaller image footprint. The 16 MP sensor of the X-T1 makes efficient use of its design and lack of anti aliasing feature to offer sharp images that lose far less resolution than their bayer interpretation counterpart that effectively operate at 1/3 the resolution reported. You see it more in the aps-c sensor in canon than the full frame sensors.

7) The Xt-1 comes in that sexy grey!

I would say the main disadvantage of fuji compared to canon is the abundance and popularity of canon. So if you want to use high end products like profoto, they come out for canon first, if at all for fuji. You also miss out on canon's recent speed light radio system which has been great for me . I tested out my canon 600 Rt speed lights on the fuji x-T1. The Fuji will fire the canon speed lights, no surprise, but it will not fire the canon remote, i.e. trigger the canon remote to fire the canon flashes. Go figure. I suspect canon does some sort of voodoo to ensure the sync between the remote and the speed lights. No surprise there since supposedly the chinese knockoff of the canon remote DOES fire the canon speed lights. Makes sense since they reversed engineered the system.

Another advantage is that right now until I think late march, Fuji is offering $300 off bodies and $200 off lenses. They did everything short of roll out the red carpet to ensure that you transition!

I hope this helps!

 

[quod]

Fuji's platform is built entirely and harmoniously around their APS-C sensors, and the glass is excellent. I have the X100S and the 23mm lens on it is very good; Fuji's 23mm prime is even better. The 56mm is amazing. If you decide to buy more of their lenses, you have a lot to choose from. Maybe Canon will get serious in mirrorless, but will it be supporting APS-C or full-frame platform, or both? With Fuji, you don't have to ask that question and you don't have to wait for great primes that are appropriately sized for the body.

 

[Hillsilly]

I'm a Fuji shooter 95%+ of the time. And while I really like their system, logically, spending £2500 on a second system seems like a lot. Just give it a bit of thought before jumping in.

But if you decide to have a look at Fuji gear, it is likely that a X-T2 will come out later this year which could be a noticeable improvement over the current X-T1. As such, I'd be tempted by the good prices of an X-T10 (or X-E2). And then you could choose to upgrade to an X-T2 and keep the other camera as a backup. (That being said, I've got an X-T1 and it is a good camera.)

Re lenses, you can't go wrong with the 23mm and 56mm. I also use the 14mm a lot (but the 16mm is said to be better) and the 35/1.4 (but there is a new 35/2 which is smaller and weather resistant). Short story is that they are all good and it is just a matter of deciding on the focal length and price range.

FWIW, I've also got an X100. I purchased this after initially picking up an X-E1 and a few lenses. If I'd have picked up the X100 first, I might have just stuck with it and not gone down the X system road. A lot of Fuji users have the X100 as their sole Fuji camera.

 

[Hillsilly]

If you are in NY, B&H have a Fuji presentation on Wednesday...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/find/eventDetails.jsp/id/2270?utm_medium=Email%201607444&utm_campaign=EventSpace&utm_source=Mar2016%20160227&utm_content=EventSpace&utm_term=2270

 

[Haydn1971]

If you are in NY, B&H have a Fuji presentation on Wednesday...

Quite a trip for me, I'm in the UK !

Thanks everyone for your comments so far... Anyone have anything negative to say about Fuji ?

 

[retroreflection]

I can only comment on the X-T1.

My pros.
Compact and reasonable weight for wide through long portrait focal lengths. Super Tele's get big cuz of physics.
Weather resistant body, but not so many lenses with sealing.
Lenses from a camera manufacturer on par with Canon (but less interest from third party manufacturers, which is a con).
Fuji has a mostly public lens development roadmap. They think long, and it makes sense. They view these lenses as their pro line-up. No back seat for APSC and/or mirrorless.
Body with all important controls in old school dials, rings, etc. I shoot whole days without going into a menu, rarely even take my eye off the viewfinder. I like that, others may not care.
Fuji makes a point of free firmware updates with BIG changes. Like adding electronic shutter.
SOOC JPEGs are usually good.
WiFi apps work well.
Sweet EVF.

My cons
Some of the manual controls can be accidentally bumped.
Lightroom doesn't do the best job with the non-bayer filter array.
Not the best with flash, but I'm not a speedlight owner. New stuff might be on the way to fix that.
Video sucks.
I don't have a smart adapter for my Canon lenses. I can manual focus, but aperture - MPE 65 wide open only?!? I don't know if one exists.

 

[9VIII]

Then start looking at the X-T1 which has hipster style, twiddly dials on the body and so on...

If an abundance of dials is Hipster then I'd better find some skinny jeans.
The control system is my primary attraction to Fuji, if Canon would just give me one more dial on EOS I'd be content, but as-is I need to look elsewhere. That and I want a high end compact body.
Ok, and focus peaking too, I love Samyang lenses and I really want a body that will work well with them.

Speaking of which, it sounds like the Samyang 50mm and 135mm lenses are really good. The Fuji 14f2.8 prime is something I'm very interested in, and it's rumored that Fuji is coming out with a 33f1.0 and 200f2.0. Either of those sound like they would be worth the money if they've got the IQ.
The X-T2 "should" be coming sometime this years, and it'll do 4K and should have one of the best EVF's to hit the market. The only thing that would stop me from getting one of those is if the Sigma APS-H body comes in under $2K (or if Canon ever comes out with an SL2), but if the X-T2 is under $1,500 I think that's a safe bet for me. The X-Pro 2 is already pretty close to that price so it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[PhotoGuy]

Hello from a fellow fuji and Canon full frame shooter.
Let me share my experience with fuji:
Consider this. A fuji with a 23mm 1.4 isnt much lighter than a Canon with a 35mm.
Since all fujis use the same sensor, even the xm-1 would do your lenses justice.
Weather sealing is marketing speak i would not rely on. I shot numerous thunderstorms with my 350D + 18-55 and it never left me in the rain (ha!). Ignore the weather sealing nonsense, take reasonable care of your gear and you will be fine.
The fujis do have beautiful sensors (ISO-less).
But ... how do i put this? They are nowhere near as realiable as Canon's cameras. Examples? If a Fuji reaches Filenumber 9999 it will totally lock up and say something like "File Limit reached". Only later did I find out it has nothing to do with the card being full, but only with image numeration (which you have to reset manually - WHY FUJI???). Another example? Set your white balance to cloudy, and the EXIF will not read cloudy / sunny or anything - no. it will say "fine" - actually made me laugh the first time. Still sad because fuji does not seem to put much testing / care into its products. See the delay of the current x-pro2 due to light-leak issues for example. Or the lousy battery door on the fuji X-T1. Munchy buttons on the back. The list goes on. Dont spent too much money on a toy. When you put one of your fuji SD-cards into your macbook, the camera will not be able to use that sd card anymore and will give you some read error. you have to format the card in camera to use it again. this is especially great if you're on vacation.
Fuji lenses are good, but way too expensive for what they are. Most of them have noisy autofocus motors. The images are beautiful though.
The X-Trans sensor maybe good for strong and medium details, but it absolutely fails in delivering the finest details (foliage, esp. nature shots). Iridient developer helps this a bit, but is cumbersome and does not deliver the detail you are used to from a traditional bayer sensor.
The shutter speed dial is also annoying. If you select 1/250 of a second and adjust it to 1/200th. Take your shot. Press the play button to check, take another shot and the camera will reset the shutterspeed to 1/250th of a second, sacrificing image quality.
Auto focus often thinks it is in focus, but isn't.
Autofocus often focusses on the background instead of the object in front.
So why am i still shooting fuji?
The 18-55 has no rivals, it is the absolute king of APS do-it-all lenses. Though mine had to be adjusted (the IS was blurring images with fast shutter speeds and stopping down at 55mm made the lens softer, event at f5.6).
The 27mm is very cheap, super fast and has fantastic image quality. Makes for a superb holiday camera to follow you everywhere around your neck without bogging you down.
I got the X-E1 and 18-55 Lens dirt cheap in mint condition over ebay for 400€. Dont buy new/flagship fujis. Once the hype train is on to the next new model your camera will be worthless.
Another very important but highly subjective difference is the color rendition. Canon's are spectacular in this regard. Nature, people, you name - everything looks just GREAT on Canon - even straight out of camera. Fujis do give a very unique und natural/organic look which is stunning when used for people shots (especially the velvia mode) but less so when used for nature photography where you want to impress with rich, saturated and punchy colors that jump off the screen/print
I think you have to try them out yourself. But do yourself a favor and go cheap first. You can always upgrade later and once the bodies have lost most of their value they hold it pretty good.
And finally, two shots i took with my fuji.

 

[Hillsilly]

My biggest annoyance is when I set my camera to use the 10s timer. If the camera goes to sleep, it will automatically cancel the timer. But other than that, I haven't had any of the problems mentioned above. I use Sandisk memory cards and they just keep working. Processing in Lightroom was initially very average, but is ok now.

As Photoguy mentions, apart from the XPro2, they all use (generally) the same sensor. But there was change to the X Trans sensor at the time that the X-E2 came out. As a result, only newer X Trans II models have the "Classic Chrome" simulation, which a lot of people like. If you like the look of classic chrome, you need to go with a newer model. The new XPro2 has an Acros simulation that is unlikely to be released to older cameras.

At the same time, a lot of people prefer the images that came off the older sensor (from the Xpro1, X-E1). You might be able to detect a difference, but it would be hard to say that one is better. (I've since converted my X-E1 to IR so I can't easily do a side by side comparison.) If you shoot jpeg only, the older X-E1 has less automatic noise correction at the highest ISOs than the newer cameras. And you'll hear that newer cameras can give a waxy skin look, because its been "oversmoothed" (for want of a better word). If you shoot RAW, its not a problem.

Focusing with the X-E1 initially was a bit hit and miss. A firmware update came which improved it, but its still not good on anything that moves. The X-T1 is much snappier and accurate and a pleasure to use. I wouldn't rely on it for crucial sporting shots, but for general use it is fine.

On sports (and wildlife), well....if you have realistic expectations of mirrorless system capabilities, you won't get upset. If you follow the Fuji forums, you can see that people do take great sports and wildlife shots, but they are the exception, not the rule. For events were there is predictable movement, I've found that the X-T1 works well. But for everything else, luck plays a big part.

FWIW, my Canon DSLR + 35/1.4 would come in at over 2kg. An X-T1 and 35/1.4 is about 750g. I can also fit two camera bodies, three/four lenses, four batteries, filters and a flash in a little Ona Prince Street bag. The same Canon gear means a fairly serious backpack and concerns with airline carry on allowances. If you were going on holidays you could cobble together a Canon APS-C kit of around the same size and weight, but given the choice, I'd prefer the Fuji system.

 

[Luds34]

Having had a EOS-M for three years, I'm getting seriously disappointed with the lack of native glass for the mount. I've started thinking towards buying into the Fujifilm range.

What do I miss in the EOS-M range, I want a few fast primes, I'm attracted to the 23mm f1.4 and 56mm f1.2 in the Fujifilm range, but then I think, would I get the most out of these on a simple X-E2 or X-M1 ? Then start looking at the X-T1 which has hipster style, twiddly dials on the body and so on... I'm now at £2500 with an X-T1, 18-135mm, 23mm and 56mm - that's kinda more than me simply buying a Canon 50mm f1.2 and a Samyang 50mm for the EOS-M.

Have I lost the plot, what's the real benefits of going Fujifilm for my second camera, what's the pitfalls, would a 23 & 56 be a bit silly on the X-E2 ? Help me !

Very similar spot you and me.

Right before last Thanksgiving, I scooped up an "import" X-E2 for $500 off ebay. I owned the following bodies at the time.

6D
70D
2 original M's

Like you, I was waiting for a real M to come out. Love my DSLRs, but they are more for dedicated photography. What situation I find myself in more, is I'm out living my life and just want a good, but compact system with me. A 6D is just too big for that. And the M, keeps leaving something to be desired. That is where one of the smaller Fuji bodies comes in perfectly for me. I only own two lenses right now, the new 35mm f/2 prime and the older 18mm f/2 prime. I kind of like going the f/2 prime direction as it is smaller and lighter, the goal of this kit. Hence no zooms are on my wish list. If I want super narrow DOF, big bokeh, I'm going to grab my 6D and put on my 35mm Sigma Art. Or I'll mount my latest pick up, a 135mm f/2L.

I enjoyed the X-E2 from the start. There were some quirks, specifically no good BBF, and a few others, but almost all of them were addressed with the ver 4.0 firmware upgrade. Many will say that the lenses you are looking at, might be a bit big/large on a X-E2 or X-T10 (more compact bodies) and be a better fit/balance on Say an X-T1 or X-Pro style body. I do have a buddy who has a ton of Fuji and Canon gear and have had the chance to mount the 23mm f/1.4 on my X-E2. I gotta say, it wasn't too bad at all and I could envision using that combo. The 56mm might be a bit more ridiculous (haven't tried it on my camera yet, buddy didn't have it with when we last met up) but the 23mm would definitely work.

I too don't get the hipster controls comments either. I feel there is something more intuitive in having dedicated controls for aperture and shutter speed, etc. I like how one now implicitly moves to Av or Tv modes versus on a Canon system you have to explicitly decide those things before hand, then manipulate the setting.

The biggest downsize to the Fuji X system is the glass. It's expensive! I wasn't sure if I wanted to commit so that's why I went with just the 35mm f/2 to start. I was in for less then $1k, body and lens, not too bad of a commitment in case I didn't like it.

If you do try out the Fuji system, just make sure you go with a new enough body that you are getting the phase detection, Classic Chrome, and the version 4 firmware.

 

[Luds34]

Two recent samples shot with the X-E2

One point I'd add, is I really like the noise in the Fuji sensor compared so the Canon crop sensors.
20160209-DSCF1026-XE2 by Ryan Ludwig, on Flickr

While this shot fell under the 1/4000th limit, I was testing out the electronic shutter as the Fuji only natively goes down to ISO 200, so fast glass can hit that shutter speed limit a little faster then our Canon's.
20160215-DSCF1249-XE2 by Ryan Ludwig, on Flickr

 

[countofmc95]

I think Photoguy pretty much nailed it. I will say though the AF system introduced on the X-T10 and newer bodies ( and brought to X-T1 and X-E2 by FW) is quite good, imo. I have the X-T10 and for my shooting AF is quite sufficient, though still not DSLR level when tracking moving subjects. I used to have an X100s and the AF on that one was like Photoguy describes, it could be slow and sometimes inaccurate.

I also echo some others' thoughts that the system can be quite pricey. I think Fuji is positioning itself as a "primary" system for most people, and often seems eager (too eager imo) to try to compare the X-Trans APS-C sensor to Full Frame sensors. I guess if your budget is unlimited it doesn't matter, but if your budget is limited, then I think Fuji can be too pricey to justify as a secondary system. I've limited my investment into the Fuji system for that reason, I currently just own the X-T10 with its cheaper 16-50 kit lens, and the 35mm 1.4 for most of my shooting with that camera.

 

[PhotoGuy]

Why not turn the argument around?
I am often thinking of buying a Canon M. The reasons for that (whats missing for Fuji) are:
- FANTASTIC 22mm f2 lens. Seriously. Go to flickr and check out the images this lens gives - they all POP
Everytime im scrolling through the images made with M cameras and I'm like "Wow", this image is lively / has depth / feels real whatever you call it - it was taken with the 22mm lens. And 35mm fullframe eq. is the perfect do-all focal length
This lens does macro, beautiful bokeh and can be had for 100€ used. How could life be any better?
- Canon color-rendition (the best there is)
- Canon reliability (they do test their products, shooting canon for 8 years and never has anything failed on me or caused trouble, as opposed to about a year with fuji)

In Fuji land there is only the 23mm 1.4 which is not only too heavy for mirrorless but also way too expensive. There are rumors of a fuji 23mm f2 coming out soon but that will cost at least 400€ and i can't image how its going be better than the canon.

What are you guys missing with canon? Obviously EVF and autofocus are the two main concerns. But i mostly shoot my fuji at arms length anyway and the focus might be fast, but not realiable and double checking every image costs time.
is the canon focus at least accurate and reliable?

@ Luds34
Lovely images. Love the two dudes in the bar. You hear everyone complaining about the 18mm and here you are, kicking ass with that "terrible" lens. Nice work!

 

[Haydn1971]

Cheers for the thoughts people... Especially the negative ones.

I love my EOS-M, just want more native prime or fast glass !

 

[Hillsilly]

While this is about the XPro2, there are some general comments about using Fuji cameras with DSLRs...

http://strobist.blogspot.com.au/2016/03/fuji-x-pro2-all-your-questions-answered.html

 

[Zv]

Oh I had the exact same thoughts as OP the other day! Glad am not the only one! I've had the original EOS M since the fire sale, way back. As much as I love it I've recently not been using it due to it's limitations in speed. It's slow to start up, slow to focus and the shutter lag is even slower. By the time you get around to it the person has moved or their expression has changed!

Was looking into the Fuji system too as an alternative and maybe dump my EOS M and few lenses that I've got. Wouldn't be too much of a hassle but was questioning the cost of getting something similar to what I have. I like the look of the X-T10 and the 16-50 kit lens. I think that would do most of what I need but then it's not exactly pocketable!

I think I'd miss the 22/2 pancake lens and maybe also the ability to use the EF-M adaptor. The 11-22 lens is also one that I'd possibly miss but recently I haven't needed it since getting the 16-35 f4L IS.

Trying really hard to not just buy gear and use what I got but EOS M is making that hard!

 

[Ryananthony]

I have been a canon shooter since i started. I began to get exhausted carrying around my 5d3 everywhere i went with the lady when i wanted to take decent photos. I just purchased a X-pro 1 used and a 27mm pancake which is tiny and jacket pocketable. I am honestly really surprised by the camera. I love using it and the images are really impressive. Very capable at iso 3200. the autofocus is pretty shotty on low light but in good lighting conditions there has been no problems, and this camera is 4 years old now. the Xt1 and Xpro2 sound much much better. For my use, as a walk around it has been great and I have no regrets. Ill be purchasing more lenses for it, and possibly buying an Xt1.

 

[Luds34]

@ Luds34
Lovely images. Love the two dudes in the bar. You hear everyone complaining about the 18mm and here you are, kicking ass with that "terrible" lens. Nice work!

Thank you, too kind, but I appreciate it. The bar shot, yes I really like the gentlemen on the right, the overhead lighting providing sharp shadows on the face, the texture/look of the jean jacket.

Completely hear you on the 22mm pancake. Great little lens. I love the 35mm focal length and that was one of the reasons I "made do" with the M for so long and held off on the Fuji. Fuji doesn't have the equivalent 23mm f/2 pancake on their X lens lineup. A buddy and I have discussed this for a while. I think they have been protecting their X100 series of cameras. However, I believe that they will be coming out with that lens in the next year or so. It's widely requested and they can't ignore the people forever on this.

With that said, 28mm and 35mm focal lengths (full frame) are pretty close to one another. So I picked up the 18mm f/2 to fill that role of the wide angle pancake like lens. It's a great little lens. Yes you are correct that it gets a bit of a bad rap. I think that is partly because, even stopped down to f/8 the corners never really resolve super well (so I hear as to be honest I haven't spent a lot of time exploring this). I'm not a pixel peeper, but even shooting wide open the center is probably a tiny bit soft (Again pixel peeping) and won't resolve quite the detail of say the 35mm at f/2. So it's not a landscape type lens. However it is a great "people" lens, especially when in a cool environment or with an awesome background and want to provide some context to the shot. So, understanding what this lens is and is not, I can highly recommend it. Very useful for a compact kit.

The M + 22mm use to be my compact, camera on me (or at least in the trunk of the car) at all times. I've now switched to the X-E2 + 18mm at just a slightly larger size and I love it. From a camera perspective, like the abilities of the system to capture a shot along with the ergonomics, it's light years ahead of the M. I attended a college hoops game the other night and brought the M + 22mm pancake with (since it could fit in my jacket pocket) and it just felt archaic, cumbersome, and so slow compared to what I have become accustom to.

 

[dolina]

Fuji's a cute toy.

For those who are serious with mirrorless and just not have a Leica-looking camera then buy a Sony full frame.