Is the 77D sensor the same as the 80D sensor or not?

[drmikeinpdx]

Here's a challenge for the Canon Rumors intelligence apparatus:

Some articles say that the 77D and the 80D use exactly the same sensor. Other articles say the 77D has an "updated" or "brand new" sensor that happens to have the same number of MP as the 80D. I also read one article which claimed the 77D has the same sensor as the T6i/s. I don't think anyone in the DSLR media really knows.

It appears that Canon is being deliberately vague about the sensors in their newest APS-C bodies. Usually they are pretty open about their new sensor designs, such as the back-illuminated sensor in the 80D that was highly praised for increased dynamic range. I suspect they went with a front-illuminated design for the 77D and T7i perhaps because it is cheaper or they had the production capacity for it. Maybe they are thinking that buyers of Rebel-class bodies don't know the difference?

They do prominently state that the Digic 6 to 7 upgrade allows one more stop of usable ISO, but that doesn't mean much to me as a RAW shooter. I'm mostly interested in RAW dynamic range.

Does anyone have a friend at Canon who can clear this up?

I plan to hold off on my planned APS-C purchase until I know what I'm buying.

 

[rrcphoto]

not sure where you are getting your info from. sounds like bad sources.

the 80D sensor is not BSI. it has on sensor ADC and is a dual pixel sensor.

the 77D is also a DPAF sensor which the T6i/s sensor was not. going by the M5 which I have - and it supposedly the same sensor, it's certainly alot more RAW malleable than the T6i/s/M3 sensor was.

Canon specifies that the sensor sizes are slightly different. it's probably quite possible they are different actual sensors. Canon does this with almost every single camera, creates a new sensor for it.

For instance, it probably doesn't need as many readout channels as the 80D because the fps is lower.

however, it certainly has a higher DR than the prior rebel versions so it's most likely the same generation as the 80D.

here's dpreview's test. as you can see around +5EV it's pretty similar to the 80D, but slightly different characteristics.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr144_0=canon_eos80d&attr144_1=canon_eos700d&attr144_2=canon_eos800d&attr144_3=canon_eosm6&attr146_0=100_6&attr146_1=100_6&attr146_2=100_6&attr146_3=100_6&normalization=full&widget=510&x=-0.6348314606741574&y=0.2414432491656648

In other words, it's fine and you're obsessing too much.

 

[drmikeinpdx]

How about a combination of bad sources and bad memory? LOL

 

[rrcphoto]

How about a combination of bad sources and bad memory? LOL

the difference should be what I'm seeing from the M3 to the M5.. and there's a huge amount of difference in actual real RAW malleability in the files.

it may not be up to the A6500 or D5600 levels, but there comes a point in time where it's simply good enough for just about any scenario that it doesn't matter much anymore.

 

[drmikeinpdx]

Well, I decided to stop obsessing and ordered a 77D. Will let you know how it works in a couple of weeks.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Canon has never provided any details about sensors. They may provide broad information about them, but do not compare sensors in different cameras at a detail level.

Canon has tried to develop standardized sensors for robotic assembly, but each camera model sensor may have at least some differences. Most reviewers believe the 77D sensor is very similar to the 80D sensor, but there is no hard evidence.

 

[Sharlin]

If there are any differences between the sensors in the 80D, 77D, T7i/800D, M5, and M6, they are not apparent in tests, never mind in real-world use. The newer bodies have a higher max ISO than the 80D, but that seems to be entirely about better JPEG noise reduction afforded by the DiGIC 7. DPR reports that DPAF tracking also seems to be improved in the newer bodies, but again I suspect that it's entirely thanks to the new processor.

 

[9VIII]

Does anyone still honestly think that RAW files aren't being baked?

Almost all of the high ISO gains for the last five years have been from processor upgrades, Nikon all but says it in their D5 and D500 material.

http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d500/
"New EXPEED 5 image-processing engine achieves superior image quality and sensitivity up to ISO 51200, expandable to Hi 5 (equivalent to ISO 1640000)"

The practical implication being that processor upgrades do inprove RAW perfromance. I've always thought that each generation of processor had its own distinct style that you could see in the RAW files.

 

[Sharlin]

Does anyone still honestly think that RAW files aren't being baked?

Almost all of the high ISO gains for the last five years have been from processor upgrades, Nikon all but says it in their D5 and D500 material.

http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d500/
"New EXPEED 5 image-processing engine achieves superior image quality and sensitivity up to ISO 51200, expandable to Hi 5 (equivalent to ISO 1640000)"

The practical implication being that processor upgrades do inprove RAW perfromance. I've always thought that each generation of processor had its own distinct style that you could see in the RAW files.

Eh, there may be some in-camera RAW image processing, but every marketing fluff ever written that mentions "image-processing engine achieving superior sensitivity" is talking about JPEG image quality. Nikon's Hi5 is, of course, marketing bullshit; the RAWs look exactly what one would expect from ISO 1.6M.

 

[innerpeace]

Guys, i am amazed by the camera`s AF performance. It is very fast and almost always on the right spot. Much faster than my old a6000. But the sensor is not nearly as good as the 3-4 year old sony a6000 sensor in DR and ISO performance. I miss the ability to lighten the shadows. Do canon intend to put more effrot in producing better sensor?

 

[Sharlin]

Guys, i am amazed by the camera`s AF performance. It is very fast and almost always on the right spot. Much faster than my old a6000. But the sensor is not nearly as good as the 3-4 year old sony a6000 sensor in DR and ISO performance. I miss the ability to lighten the shadows. Do canon intend to put more effrot in producing better sensor?

According to DPR, DxO, and Bill Claff the 80D sensor is almost exactly equal to the a6000 sensor through the whole ISO range, with the a6500 being about half a stop better. There are no 77D numbers yet but it seems doubtful it's much worse than the 80D.

 

[YuengLinger]

Why spend on the 77D and not spend a little more to get the 80D with AFMA? For fast lenses, AFMA is such a major feature, and the 80D's LiveView AF seems just as fast as that on the 5DIV...

I understand budgets, believe me, but when a little more time saving allows for the purchase of a significantly better item, perhaps with better resale value later too...

 

[rrcphoto]

If there are any differences between the sensors in the 80D, 77D, T7i/800D, M5, and M6, they are not apparent in tests

actually there is a small difference in between the 80D and 77D especially when heavily pushed not to mention canon calls the sensors two different sizes.

not to mention that DxO *most certainly* saw a difference between the 80D sensor and the M5

 

[drmikeinpdx]

Why spend on the 77D and not spend a little more to get the 80D with AFMA? For fast lenses, AFMA is such a major feature, and the 80D's LiveView AF seems just as fast as that on the 5DIV...

I understand budgets, believe me, but when a little more time saving allows for the purchase of a significantly better item, perhaps with better resale value later too...

Excellent question. I think the 80D is a better choice than the 77D for most photographers who are going to use it as their primary camera or as a sports/action camera. In my case, the camera is going to be used as a travel camera where size and weight are an issue. It will also reside in my camera bag as a backup for my 5D3.

I received my new 77D a couple of days ago from B&H. It works, but I haven't done any serious shooting with it yet. I would have ordered via the Street Price program, but their price was only $10 less than B&H, so not worth the time and trouble.

BTW, third party batteries are said to be less than fully compatible. I'm going to be testing that out and will let you all know what I find.

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

Why spend on the 77D and not spend a little more to get the 80D with AFMA? For fast lenses, AFMA is such a major feature, and the 80D's LiveView AF seems just as fast as that on the 5DIV...
I understand budgets, believe me, but when a little more time saving allows for the purchase of a significantly better item, perhaps with better resale value later too...

BTW, third party batteries are said to be less than fully compatible. I'm going to be testing that out and will let you all know what I find.

Judging by Ebay ads, it seems that third-party manufacturers are not compatible with the original Canon charger. All third-party LP-E17s are sold as kits with an inexpensive junk-type charger, and are never sold separately.

 

[innerpeace]

I bought the 77d instead of the 80d because of a free 50mm/1.8 lense gift so the difference in price became bigger. Also i wasn`t sure if i am going to like dslr because i was a mirrorles camera user. Also the camera shop employee told me the sensor of the 77d is the same as the 80d and i believed him(i guess i shouldn`t have).

 

[drmikeinpdx]

I had a chance to shoot with my new 77D in my new studio yesterday, side by side with my 5D3. I have to say that I am very pleased with the sensor performance. For most purposes, I don't think there will be a significant difference in the images from the two cameras, which was what I was hoping for. The 77D is a nice step up in image quality from my T5i and I do enjoy the top LCD screen and additional control dial.

I will see if I can find some work safe photos to post in the appropriate part of the forum.