More Mentions of a Canon Mirrorless Announcement Ahead of Photokina [CR1]

BillB

EOS Rebel T7i
May 11, 2017
788
52
Normally, you would want to play with shadows before you take a picture, not after. It leads to better pictures. "Photography", after all, is "drawing with light".
Correct exposure can minimize the need for global adjustments in post processing, but local adjustments may still be desirable (depending on personal preference).
 

Kit.

EOS Rebel SL2
Apr 25, 2011
501
132
Thats why Ansel Adams
...wasn't fond of his own color photography work.

Correct exposure can minimize the need for global adjustments in post processing, but local adjustments may still be desirable (depending on personal preference).
Some people are too lazy to bring a reflector or too impatient to wait for a cloud because they believe higher DR with "local adjustments" will make the job. It usually won't.
 

BillB

EOS Rebel T7i
May 11, 2017
788
52
...wasn't fond of his own color photography work.


Some people are too lazy to bring a reflector or too impatient to wait for a cloud because they believe higher DR with "local adjustments" will make the job. It usually won't.
True, but sometimes circumstances don't cooperate.
 
Aug 12, 2018
22
14
...wasn't fond of his own color photography work.


Some people are too lazy to bring a reflector or too impatient to wait for a cloud because they believe higher DR with "local adjustments" will make the job. It usually won't.
Boy, would I love to see your work.
 
Aug 11, 2016
108
6
...wasn't fond of his own color photography work.


Some people are too lazy to bring a reflector or too impatient to wait for a cloud because they believe higher DR with "local adjustments" will make the job. It usually won't.
This isn't a fair comment at all. Higher DR can occasionally save an image that would have been unusable otherwise. I'm sure event, wedding and photojournalists can definitely benefit from having higher DR. As humans, we are not infallible, and we may very well not be in the correct setting in the heat of the moment. Will I be proud of pulling 6-7 stops out of an image? Probably not, but delivering an image > telling them I missed the shot.
 
Jan 26, 2017
233
75
www.flickr.com
Focus peaking and face tracking are a function of the mirrorless functionality which is why it is not possible using Canon FF which are all OVFs.



I don't shoot a lot of landscapes but I find it hard to imagine there are many circumstances where the extra DR of a Sony will make or break the need to bracket an exposure. I would have thought if you are serious about landscapes you would either bracket or use filters - any image where people point out how great it is to recover 5 stops of shadows and avoid bracketing I think looks flat and uninspiring.
I shoot a lot of landscapes - just because you can recover 5 stops of DR doesn't mean you should! Some scenes are much more interesting if you let it clip. I love the work of Alex Noriega - his photo "The Watcher" is a good example of where not to recover (I couldn't link directly to the image, but it's in this gallery if you're interested).

I switched from a 6D to a 5D IV and found that, at least superficially, the 5D IV made recovering shadows more manageable than the 6D. More than once the 5D IV has genuinely surprised me on what it could recover - more than once I've bracketed images because it appeared to clip a bit and found that the middle-exposure frame was sufficient. This was shot with a 5D IV, appearing to clip on the highlights and nearly clipping on the darks, but I had no trouble recovering tons of range to my satisfaction:
Glacier sunset.png


Not once did I have that experience with the 6D. Granted, that's all anecdotal considering I sold the 6D to get the 5D and couldn't do an on-site real-world comparison.

I'd love to do a real-world comparison between the 5D IV and a Sony a7Riii or a7iii to see if it actually changes my keeper rate, but to be honest I'm pretty satisfied with my 5D IV's DR. As long as I know it's clipping I can usually manage with filters or bracketing.
 
Likes: Isaacheus

Antono Refa

EOS Rebel SL2
Mar 26, 2014
640
18
Oh, really? For me, it looks like half of the forum uses 100-400.
This forum is not representative of the market as a whole.

I used to have 70-300mm on crop. Now I have 70-200mm on FF, and I haven't used the tele extenders for so long, I think of selling them.
 

Don Haines

posting cat pictures on the internet since 1986
Jun 4, 2012
7,179
157
Canada
I mean this as a genuine question as I think I've missed something, are you meaning you shouldnt/shouldn't have to play with shadows if you get correct exposure?
In a perfect world you would take the shot at the perfect exposure and your output device would have more than enough dynamic range to show the shadows and the highlights.... and you would not have to "play with the sliders"

In the real world we have monitors and printers that do not handle the same DR as your camera and we have to adjust the image so that it will display well on your output device, or you may want to shift things to create a mood, or shift colour(s) to move emphasis around... For example, in technical documentation I sometimes have to absolutely butcher realism to properly show scratches on a polished metal.... it all depends on your goal.
 
Feb 8, 2018
37
10
UK
I purchased the 6d2 and haven't been impressed with it's performance I.E it's DR and colour rendition and find the images weak in detail when pushed. For me it's really down to the price paid for what is an 80d with a 6d image, I think it was priced way too high for what it was and TBH as a company I'm not that impressed with the stuff I'm seeing from them anymore. I'm looking forward to seeing what Nikon bring to the table and I'll jump over to Nikon if the reviews are once again not good for canon on their mirrorless side, I wonder if others feel the way I do?
 
Likes: Isaacheus

Don Haines

posting cat pictures on the internet since 1986
Jun 4, 2012
7,179
157
Canada
...wasn't fond of his own color photography work.
Some people are too lazy to bring a reflector or too impatient to wait for a cloud because they believe higher DR with "local adjustments" will make the job. It usually won't.
Yes.... I always carry stands and reflectors with me when I go hiking or canoeing..... and I find that the wildlife will patiently wait for a cloud to pass overhead so that I can take the shot in less harsh lighting....
 
I shoot a lot of landscapes - just because you can recover 5 stops of DR doesn't mean you should! Some scenes are much more interesting if you let it clip.

I switched from a 6D to a 5D IV and found that, at least superficially, the 5D IV made recovering shadows more manageable than the 6D. More than once the 5D IV has genuinely surprised me on what it could recover - more than once I've bracketed images because it appeared to clip a bit and found that the middle-exposure frame was sufficient.
I'm shooting with the 5Ds - and with that, I have been genuinely surprised about what is possible to recover from the shadows, despite all the internet noise about how the 5Ds is rubbish for this. But fully agree - just because you can, does not mean you should.

Single shot from the 5Ds (with 2 stop ND grad):
Porth Nanven S1-5289B.jpg
 

Sporgon

5% of gear used 95% of the time
I'm shooting with the 5Ds - and with that, I have been genuinely surprised about what is possible to recover from the shadows, despite all the internet noise about how the 5Ds is rubbish for this. But fully agree - just because you can, does not mean you should.

Single shot from the 5Ds (with 2 stop ND grad):
View attachment 179689
Nice picture ! I agree the 5DS has a very good exposure latitude, especially considering it’s off chip ADC. But to be honest I could have made that shot with my (original) 5D if I’d used a two stop grad ;-)
 

Sporgon

5% of gear used 95% of the time
This isn't a fair comment at all. Higher DR can occasionally save an image that would have been unusable otherwise. I'm sure event, wedding and photojournalists can definitely benefit from having higher DR. As humans, we are not infallible, and we may very well not be in the correct setting in the heat of the moment. Will I be proud of pulling 6-7 stops out of an image? Probably not, but delivering an image > telling them I missed the shot.
Yes but to save that shot with the additional DR that a 5Div or Sony A7 would have over say the 6Dii you’d have to be continually under exposing as routine. That’s the whole issue with this “extra stop of DR saves the day “ argument: it offers nothing at the highlight end for a given “correct” exposure. I’m not saying this is your view, but many who yearn on the internet for greater range assume it’s at both ends. It’s not. It’s all do do with how much info is at the shadow end before it becomes swamped with noise, FPN, banding etc. So if you over expose highlights with a Sony or whatever you’re still screwed. (Actually I find Canon more robust in the highlight fall off but that’s another story).

So once you understand that it becomes clear that in an exposure cock up the chances are that the extra exposure latitude will only help if you were under exposing.
 
Jan 26, 2017
233
75
www.flickr.com
I'm shooting with the 5Ds - and with that, I have been genuinely surprised about what is possible to recover from the shadows, despite all the internet noise about how the 5Ds is rubbish for this. But fully agree - just because you can, does not mean you should.

Single shot from the 5Ds (with 2 stop ND grad):
Beautiful photo! No doubt even with my 6D I almost always found a way around a DR issue - usually with filters, but occasionally with bracketing. To be fair, I still often use filters with he 5D IV - improved DR doesn't mean I expect to capture everything all the time, nor would I want to. My image above was an odd case because I found myself trying to ND grad the top and bottom of the image to capture the whole histogram and it just wasn't working for me, so I tried bracketing instead only to find that in the end I didn't need any of that on the 5D IV. Even though the image was clipped on the histogram, there was more highlight latitude than the camera let on.

My only point was that the extended range in DR has, for me, created a noticeable difference in how I use the 5D IV vs the 6D. Not to say anything is unusable or even poor at what it does, just that it can have a real-world impact. Again, without doing side by side comparisons in the field it's all hearsay!
 
Likes: Isaacheus
Nice picture ! I agree the 5DS has a very good exposure latitude, especially considering it’s off chip ADC. But to be honest I could have made that shot with my (original) 5D if I’d used a two stop grad ;-)
I have not shot landscapes with a 5D for the best part of 10 years. But yes, in general exposure terms, the 5D should be fine here. There have of course been many incremental IQ improvements over the years - the most siginificent of which in my opinion was the move from 12 bit to 14 bit raws (which happened between the 5D2 and 3) . This has given the later camers a fantastic smoothness of tone; so if you no need to rescue a bad exposure (or lift a shadow) - the modern cameras do have an advantage of the older ones.
 

Sporgon

5% of gear used 95% of the time
Ah, my bad.
When moving from the 5D2 to 5Ds, I did notice that the 5Ds has a richness and smoothness of tone that I was decernably better than I was seeing from the 5D2. I had put that down to an increase in bit depth - but I guess its simply Canon improving their color science over the years.
Yes I agree with you on the tone of the 5Ds, but I'd put this down to the 50 MP overkill giving improved colour definition, especially in greens. In fact the 5Ds has finally put to bed any nostalgic desires I had for MF or LF transparency film. Put this camera on a solid tripod and add a good lens; the results really do look like a 5x4 Kodachrome transparency.