Thanks, Alan, but I'm still confused. Alex has a photo of his 400 with this combo, but you say that it didn't even manual focus when you tried it with your 300, is that right?AlanF said:
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Stacked TCs - 1.4x III + 12mm Extension Tube + 2x III
- Thread starter mackguyver
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mackguyver said:
I have just been sitting by an open window window with a couple of stars showing through. I tried in MF with my 70D and then 5DIII attached to the 1.4xTCIII before a 12mm tube before the 2xTCIII and then the f/2.8 300mm II. Both focussed. Yes, I WAS COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY WRONG!
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Thank you, Alan! I didn't mean to make you eat your words, but thanks for the update . I think I'll go ahead and pick up a 12mm tube. I don't foresee a lot of use, but there are times when I've had a relatively stable subject (like a roosting bird) where I would like to get a little more magnification for some other compositions. Environmental conditions here in hot & humid Florida (I'm not complaining as it's 74°F today) are usually the limiting factor, but this could work for some tighter shots every now and then.AlanF said:
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Mac, I am not eating my words - if I make a mistake I say so as soon as I realise it. There is a resident bittern that haunts the reeds about 250 metres from my favourite hide. He occupies only about 300x300 px when I have 2x300mm on the 70D. I'll now take the 1.4xTC + tube and see what he is like at 420x420 px. This is the best I have done so far. It's a 100% crop, f/5.6, 1/1250 iso640, hand held resting on a ledge. It's not publication quality or anywhere near it, but it's the closest I have ever got.
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Alan, I really like the shot, as I know how challenging they are to shoot. I have tried to shoot bitterns from boats a few times and they are hard to spot (as your shot clearly shows!) and move so erratically in such dense cover it sure is tough to find them, get unobstructed shots, and finally get them in focus. I'll be curious to see your results and wish you luck!
I'm also thinking I would give this a try with my 180 macro. There are times when 2x magnification isn't quite enough and while the light requirements would be difficult, I bet it would work well with the 180.
I'm also thinking I would give this a try with my 180 macro. There are times when 2x magnification isn't quite enough and while the light requirements would be difficult, I bet it would work well with the 180.
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1 AM, no moon and too cold so I just tried a shot of a rule at 45 degrees hand held. It wouldn't lock focus with my 6D and 300 II but I only had my 36mm tube to try out (12/20 is lent out). 2X is closest to the camera. This isn't a very good judge of IQ for sure but it resolves better than 128th inch at 10'.
Jack
Jack
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I thought that the reason why the Mk IIIs don't stack is not because Canon don't want us to stack them but because the TC glass is pushed forward to be closer to the rear element of the lens, which gives better performance. It is a consequence of the new better design that prevents stacking.
My guess is that for moonshots, which are basically monochrome, the stacked TCs will be good and resolve more. But, when it comes to coloured plumage etc, the added CA etc will probably negate the added focal length.
My guess is that for moonshots, which are basically monochrome, the stacked TCs will be good and resolve more. But, when it comes to coloured plumage etc, the added CA etc will probably negate the added focal length.
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I'm not sure anyone other than Canon's engineers really know, and I've read both things (better design, designed to prevent stacking). Either way, it looks like the 12mm tube works. I wonder about the CA, too, but the new extenders are much better than the MkIIs in that respect. I don't think I'd try it with anything other than the new big whites and the 180mm macro. I'm sure other combinations would probably disappoint for IQ or practicality (i.e. 70-200 2.8 IS II). I've got a 12mm tube on the way, but I'm guessing the winter storms are going to delay it considerably...AlanF said:
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Mac
Good news. I got home early, the light was poor but I was able to test autofocus on my favourite medieval brick wall. It worked fine with the 5DIII and also worked with the 70D as the double extender set up reads as f/5.6 instead of f/8. The live view focus with the 70D was very good. The light was too poor to make a valid comparison with previous shots.
Good news. I got home early, the light was poor but I was able to test autofocus on my favourite medieval brick wall. It worked fine with the 5DIII and also worked with the 70D as the double extender set up reads as f/5.6 instead of f/8. The live view focus with the 70D was very good. The light was too poor to make a valid comparison with previous shots.
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Alan, that's great news and I'm happy to hear it works. Also, I see Canon USA has posted their second extender article today. Nothing earth shattering but interesting nonetheless.AlanF said:
Part I: http://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2013/ef_extenders_pt1.shtml
Part II: http://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2014/ef_extenders_pt2.shtml
In Pt. 2, he specifically mentions the EF12:
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postscript
I just tried focussing on closer subjects. The AF on 5DIII and 70D both failed, but the liveview on the 70D was spot on. So, perhaps this is the reason why I thought previously the tube didn't work? It makes me really glad I bought the 70D and sold the 7D because the latter had very poor AF on the 300/2.8 + 2xTC whereas the 70D is very good, and it has amazing liveview focussing.
I just tried focussing on closer subjects. The AF on 5DIII and 70D both failed, but the liveview on the 70D was spot on. So, perhaps this is the reason why I thought previously the tube didn't work? It makes me really glad I bought the 70D and sold the 7D because the latter had very poor AF on the 300/2.8 + 2xTC whereas the 70D is very good, and it has amazing liveview focussing.
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I finally got around to try this. I mounted the 600 w. the extenders and extension tube on a RRS TVC-34L tripod with RRS PG-02 pano-gimbal head.
First observation was how shaky it was. I sold my Wiberley gimbal-2 head when I got the RRS head, so I cannot make a direct comparison. But I made some shots with the 400/2.8L II and 2xIII extender, mounted on the 7D, which is equivalent to 1280mm and as I recall, that was much more stable.
But, second observation, the sharpness and my ability to focus was so limited that I do not view this as a realistic alternative for practical use. I will wait and see what the 7DII will be able to do.
First observation was how shaky it was. I sold my Wiberley gimbal-2 head when I got the RRS head, so I cannot make a direct comparison. But I made some shots with the 400/2.8L II and 2xIII extender, mounted on the 7D, which is equivalent to 1280mm and as I recall, that was much more stable.
But, second observation, the sharpness and my ability to focus was so limited that I do not view this as a realistic alternative for practical use. I will wait and see what the 7DII will be able to do.
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Alan, Jack, & Eldar, thank you for your experiments, and as Eldar says, I'm sure it's not practical for normal use. I still think there's some value for it in rare situations and look forward to giving it a try. And yes, if the 7DII turns out to be half as awesome as we all hope, I'll consider going back to a crop sensor...
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AlanF said:
I never got on with the 300/2.8 + 2xtc on the 7d. It was not workable for me, just too slow for wild life, but it should always focus using normal AF. I used to turn off the search for focus option. Or it would take ages to focus. But its great on the 5d3 or 1dx. In fact its probably my fav lens on the 1Dx and very often hand held at that.
But I don't think I would ever use the stacked converters for wild life. The IS is best turned off and the whole set up has to be well supported. Due to the lack of light you are going to need such slow shutter speeds its not really what you want for fast moving wild life in poor light. And that's always what I seem to be taking photo's of.
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Wildlife is tricky, especially if you use live-view and digitally focus with the AF button. Or manually focus by zooming in and pixel peeping (why isn't there a 50-100x zoom). I only have the 25mm tube, so it had to be that one, but I haven't come up with a reason to have a 840mm eq lens for non-moving objects yet.
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I have only just noticed that TDP has a shot of the moon through a 600mm with stacked extenders.
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-600mm-f-4-L-IS-II-USM-Lens-Review.aspx
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-600mm-f-4-L-IS-II-USM-Lens-Review.aspx
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AlanF, we've been two pleased customers with the 300 II and both converters. I'm holding off (still lots to learn and lots to do, with my 6D) on the decision on a second body. I might have even bought a 1Dx at my wife's urging as my friend has just recently, but boy I don't like the weight.
So, my question for you is how have you found the 70D crop to be with the 300 and extenders 1.4X and 2X. Another friend has the 70D but he's so busy we haven't had time to get my lenses on his camera.
We both know that getting beyond 600 would be very useful at times if the negatives are not too great. I'm still thinking 7DII. Any thoughts from your recent experiences?
Jack
as my friend has just recently, but boy I don't like the weight.So, my question for you is how have you found the 70D crop to be with the 300 and extenders 1.4X and 2X. Another friend has the 70D but he's so busy we haven't had time to get my lenses on his camera.
We both know that getting beyond 600 would be very useful at times if the negatives are not too great. I'm still thinking 7DII. Any thoughts from your recent experiences?
Jack
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Jack
The 70D is very good indeed with 300/2.8 II and TCs. I haven't had a chance to use them stacked yet. I don't think stacking is practical for bird photography. With individual TCs, the focussing is fast and accurate, the IQ very good. There is no doubt I am getting better reach than with the 5DIII, but the 5DIII does give slightly crisper and richer images, which makes up for some of the lower reach. DxO PRIME noise reduction without loss of detail is so remarkable that it greatly raises the iso performance of the 70D. Trouble is, the noise reduction takes about 2.5-3 minutes on my MacBook Pro and 11 minutes on my MacBook Air.
The 70D is very good indeed with 300/2.8 II and TCs. I haven't had a chance to use them stacked yet. I don't think stacking is practical for bird photography. With individual TCs, the focussing is fast and accurate, the IQ very good. There is no doubt I am getting better reach than with the 5DIII, but the 5DIII does give slightly crisper and richer images, which makes up for some of the lower reach. DxO PRIME noise reduction without loss of detail is so remarkable that it greatly raises the iso performance of the 70D. Trouble is, the noise reduction takes about 2.5-3 minutes on my MacBook Pro and 11 minutes on my MacBook Air.
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