Why has Canon omitted 24p 4K recording in their new cameras such as the EOS M6 Mark II, EOS 90D and EOS RP?

[Don Haines]

The gist I'm getting from the "apologists" is more along the lines of, "If you need 24P for professional reasons, you'll have no problem getting a camera that provides it, Canon or otherwise. If the M6II doesn't have it, but you want it, you're not the target market for the M6II. Amateur stills shooters that want basic video functionality for home use likely are the target market. Sure, it's a head-scratcher, but if the 'professional results' you need can only come from 24P, you can easily justify purchasing the product that provides it."

Honestly, I haven't met a Rebel/M shooter who gives two hoots about frame rate in video, let alone is aware that there's a meaningful difference. When the curious exploration of a feature's absence turns into lamentation and criticism, it sounds more like budget-constrained video "pros" who want what they need from an amateur/enthusiast stills camera.

(Honest Question) Who is more closed-minded: die-hard brand apologists, or those who criticize a brand for not giving them what they demand rather than just buy what they need from another brand? Food for thought...

30P?

30P?

Most of the footage shot on these entry level cameras is going to be viewed on 60 or 120 hz televisions.....

 

[unfocused]

Here is a simple time saver. Take any of the old threads on the EOS R and do a word replacement of the term "card slot" with the term "24 fps." The arguments and results are exactly the same -- some people think these are critical features, others don't.

I'm just worried that all this arguing is wasting valuable internet space and there isn't going to be any left for the rest of us.

 

[neuroanatomist]

That’s going too far..... remember the target market.....

It is a stills camera that has the ability to shoot simple video clips to watch on your TV..... a TV that is probably at a 60hz or 120hz refresh rate....

But Don, without p24 how will all the aspiring cinematic geniuses ever have a hope their footage will be shown at Cannes or Sundance?

 

[Kharan]

30p in a 24p timeline looks terrible, It doesn't work. Luckily, 30p in a 30p and 24p in a 30p timeline looks just fine.

This whole argument about 24p in these cameras is ridiculous. If Canon added 24p back to these cameras, would anybody complaining here actually buy the camera to shoot video? No. Canon doesn't care about the DSLR video enthusiast market. They are marketing these cameras to people who don't pretend to know anything about video but might want to use the camera to try to capture their kid scoring a goal in video mode. These people don't need 23.98p, much less 24p. And they don't want to be going through a page full of options of video modes that they don't understand.

I'd buy an M6II if it had it. It's a good enough body, and I could live with the limited buffer with C-RAW. But it doesn't, and the new A6XXX bodies from Sony also have iffy compromises, so it seems like it's Fujifilm or the highway for me. And that's exactly what manufacturers should not want in a crashing market like there is right now.

 

[Avenger 2.0]

The only reason they removed 24p (and all-i) is to protect higher end models and cinema camera's.

 

[Ozarker]

Errr.... tell that to Hollywood, which I believe is still shooting 24 fps.

That depends upon who you are talking about. Not all of Hollywood still uses 24fps and 60fps is better suited for televisions. Many of them don't shoot film anymore. When they do, it is digitized afterwards. I can't remember the last time I sat through a wait for the reel to be changed or the switch between two different projectors. Grain, dust, and hair on film or lens can be added in post, if that's what people are worried about. That's what I think about when I think about film. People are worried it won't look like film when they take their home videos? Please. It won't look cinematic watching most anybody's home movies. Me? I won't buy until there is an 8mm mode.

Steven Spielberg: "The only thing that I caution all of us about is, it still doesn’t look like film unless you put the reels up in the booth.”

He's right. He knows more about that than any home video "filmmakers" around here.

People these days are growing up with fast television rates and video game rates. They don't give 2 craps about p24. They've already adjusted and most don't watch old movies.

 

[Ozarker]

And there we have a new drinking game. Anytime someone says The Hobbit was shot in 48fps. Go!

 

[Famateur]

I'm not sure 24p qualifies as a pro feature.

I'd agree, but many on this thread are bemoaning the lack of 24P in the M6II as a hindrance to achieving the "professional" look of Hollywood movies. For example:

Films are shot natively in 24p in Hollywood because the frame rate is part of the look and the format of feature film. Amateur filmmakers want their films to look like Hollywood films. Films that are captured at the wrong frame rate will never look professional.

If it's not a pro feature, why all the fuss over it's omission from an amateur/enthusiast stills-oriented camera? Why the insistence that it's vital to a professional result?

 

[bbb34]

Most of the footage shot on these entry level cameras is going to be viewed on 60 or 120 hz televisions.....

Is that so? I don't have numbers, but I doubt that globally households with 60 Hz are the majority. The native panel frequency of many (possibly most) modern TVs is 50 Hz.

 

[bhf3737]

Films are shot natively in 24p in Hollywood because the frame rate is part of the look and the format of feature film. Amateur filmmakers want their films to look like Hollywood films. Films that are captured at the wrong frame rate will never look professional.

This argument is already so painfully self-evident that I don't think explaining it any further is going to help.

Perhaps you are making mistake by mixing up "frame rate" and "shutter speed". The look comes from shutter speed and format is related to frame rate. Two different things, but related. Just saying.

 

[bhf3737]

For the newbies, this video "Mixing Frame Rates: Can You Edit 24p, 30p, & 60p Together" explains (with sample footages) the concept of look and frame-rate. It specifically mentions that 24p footage doesn't look good on standard 60Hz display because of two reasons:
1. Requires 3:2 conversion to be viewed on standard 60Hz displays, so the picture may become jittery somehow.
2. Requires slowest and steadiest pan to look good. (soccer moms do pan a lot, don't they?)
I guess, that is the reason that 24p may have been excluded to provide the best possible experience an average user can get from shooting and viewing video with this cameras on average PC/TV screens. Is this is right or wrong, we don't know, and I personally don't mind.

 

[SecureGSM]

---

Now THIS is something I have actual real-world low-level assembler and C++ software coding and hardware design expertise on!

The Canon Digic series of chips are ARM-based Cortex A4/M4 cores and I have SUCCESSFULLY coded a 24 fps to 60 fps interframe AND intraframe DCI 4K and UHDTV 4k wavelet-based codec that outright avoids the MPEG-LA group patents (Getting around those patents is WHY there is a Bell 429 parked in the hangar now!). The KEY programming issue is to use as many hardware-specific shortcuts you can to avoid as much actual real number math as possible and STICK to integer-based computation and lookup tables.

ALL of the Canon DSLR and Mirrorless models from the Canon M50 to M5/M6 mk1/2's to the 5D mk 2/3/4 and the 1Dx/1Dx2/1Dc and the D90/Rebel series DO HAVE the capability to do full 24 fps to 120 fps at up to 2048 by 1080 pixels RGBA 14 bits per RGB channel! I've tested it! It works! PERIOD!!! The ADC/DAC/DSP's on those are only 12-to-14-bits per channel so anything higher is pointless in terms of colour sampling. The M-series AND the M50 can do UHDTV 4k 3840 by 2160 pixels at up to 60 fps. The 5D mk2/3 can do UHDTV 4K at up to 30 fps so 24 fps is trivial!

The 5D mk4/1D-series can also do UHDTV 4k 3840 by 2160 pixels (16:9 aspect ratio) AND DCI 4K (4096 by 2160 pixels - Academy 1.89:1 aspect ratio) at between 30 fps to 60 fps depending upon camera model.

Hooking INTO the Canon camera BIOS to upload and use the codec is/was a beeee otchy programming problem and is NOT A TRIVIAL TASK! That said, interest was high from many parties and YOU (the general public!) will soon be able to experience the fruits of that extensive codec design labour!

--

50.3 Megapixel (8192 by 6144 pixels) 16-bits per channel 4:4:4 Stills RAW and Wavelet (up to 60 fps burst rate) ....AND.... full DCI 8K 8192 x 4320 pixel video at 60 fps! 2K at 480 fps or 960 fps at 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 up to 16-bits COMING to an upcoming medium format GLOBAL SHUTTER camera AND to two APC-C and 2/3rds inch GLOBAL SHUTTER Ruggedized IP-68 SMARTPHONES very soon now! Get ready world! These will change EVERYTHING !!!!!

.

Harry is back!

 

[seasonascent]

The lack of 24p doesn't bother me being in Australia. PAL 25p

 

[SecureGSM]

You beat me to it, mate

 

[YuengLinger]

"Here's lookin' at you, kid!"

 

[Scenes]

That’s going too far..... remember the target market.....

It is a stills camera that has the ability to shoot simple video clips to watch on your TV..... a TV that is probably at a 60hz or 120hz refresh rate....

Happy I make a living from ‘simple video’ clips shot on this stills camera.

 

[bhf3737]

30p in a 24p timeline looks terrible, It doesn't work. Luckily, 30p in a 30p and 24p in a 30p timeline looks just fine.

Let me correct your statement:
30p in a 24p timeline looks terrible if you watch it on a 60Hz screen. On 120Hz screen it is fine.
30p in a 30p and 24p in a 30p timeline looks just fine on both 60Hz and 120Hz screens.

 

[Kit.]

The only reason they removed 24p (and all-i) is to protect higher end models and cinema camera's.

There can be multiple reasons why they might remove 24p. But after watching those self-proclaimed "video gurus" shooting themselves in 24p for "cine look" on YouTube, one is clear: removing 24p from consumer cameras would be a great service to humanity.

 

[SonySucks]

It’s hilarious how far these nimwits in this thread will go to say that 24p is a “useless, extra feature just for wannabe videographers” when it’s present in damn near every Canon camera that shoots video for the better part of almost a decade.

 

[SonySucks]

But Don, without p24 how will all the aspiring cinematic geniuses ever have a hope their footage will be shown at Cannes or Sundance?

You’re an incorrigible little troll, aren’t you?