6D with 3 flavor + Improve AF (compare to 5dm2)

[Trovador]

Just a word of warning. I don't think anyone should count on being able to choose between a new 6D and a new 5DII.

Once the 6D hits the shelves, expect the 5DII to disappear. At a minimum, all rebates and discounts on any remaining 5DIIs in dealers' stock will end and dealers will quit receiving any new shipments. Canon did a remarkable job of pulling the 580EXII and making it impossible to find. Expect the same with the 5DII.

Refurbished and used models will remain, but they could very well be selling for as much or more than new models are now going for.

It is not in Canon's best interests to allow consumers to choose between the 6D and a heavily discounted 5DII. By the time the 6D is available, your choices on the new market will be the 6D or the 5DIII.

Pleeeeeease, let the 6D have similar IQ to the 5DmkIII. I'm really counting on this. Today's US$1,549 deal for the MkII is really tempting!. We'll see.

 

[ishdakuteb]

... I think the purpose of servo is seriously misunderstood.

i am insteresting in your understanding about ai servo. as if you would like to share, i am your audiance...

note: i am using both (with dof button re-config), depending on cases

 

[pakngah]

I just read http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3280866 and one guy told that it is possible that 6 AF-assist points (5dm2) are actually retained in 6D and plus 2 additional points (total= 11 AF points + 8 AF-assist).

IINM, there are AI Servo and AI Servo II right? All new camera body get AI Servo II or only for pro body?

 

[sb]

... I think the purpose of servo is seriously misunderstood.

i am insteresting in your understanding about ai servo. as if you would like to share, i am your audiance...

note: i am using both (with dof button re-config), depending on cases

Ok, so let me start by saying that in my world of candids (i.e. weddings) unless the eye closest to the camera is critically sharp, the picture goes to the virtual trash can. Even a slight focus error (say I focused on the eyeglass frames) is completely unacceptable. In fact, nothing short of tack sharp eye(s) can be passed on to the client.

Second thing that needs mentioning is that I shoot wide open with fast primes. So f/1.4 is where I live.

With that being said, servo could never do for me what I do manually with single shot:

- Servo is reactive, not proactive. It doesn't know where your subject is GOING TO BE, it can only tell where the subject moved after it already happened. Once subject moves out of focus, servo is catching up. This is especially a problem when the subject is moving straight towards or away from you.

- Servo can't predict people's reactions. I can tell by the body language whether a person is going to lean forward or backwards once they start laughing at the incredibly hilarious joke they just heard from a person they were chatting with.

- Servo doesn't understand that focus needs to be on the eye of the subject or the picture is useless. To ensure that I get the eye in focus, I use single focus point only. I dont want the camera making a mistake. Unfortunately you can't use servo with a single focus point only

- With candids, timing is everything. So I want to take a picture exactly when the time is right, not when servo catches up to the subject. So it is much faster for me to wait it out and focus in the split second when the moment is right, than to let servo chase the subject around and be completely in the wrong place when I need to take the picture.

But I'm not saying that servo is useless, don't get me wrong. In other types of photography where subjects that are moving really fast and failure rate is really high (flying birds, fast action sports etc) servo can be of tremendous value. I can't imagine shooing a soccer game without it (unless I'm shooting the goalie only ). Continuous fast action requires a completely different approach to photography, especially if you don't know what that "right moment" will be.

 

[RLPhoto]

I would switch out my 7D for the 6D, but canon dumped the multi-selector switch on the 6D and made it more 60D-ish.

Argghhhh!?!??!

 

[ishdakuteb]

Ok, so let me start by saying that in my world of candids (i.e. weddings) unless the eye closest to the camera is critically sharp, the picture goes to the virtual trash can. Even a slight focus error (say I focused on the eyeglass frames) is completely unacceptable. In fact, nothing short of tack sharp eye(s) can be passed on to the client.

Second thing that needs mentioning is that I shoot wide open with fast primes. So f/1.4 is where I live.

With that being said, servo could never do for me what I do manually with single shot:

- Servo is reactive, not proactive. It doesn't know where your subject is GOING TO BE, it can only tell where the subject moved after it already happened. Once subject moves out of focus, servo is catching up. This is especially a problem when the subject is moving straight towards or away from you.

- Servo can't predict people's reactions. I can tell by the body language whether a person is going to lean forward or backwards once they start laughing at the incredibly hilarious joke they just heard from a person they were chatting with.

- Servo doesn't understand that focus needs to be on the eye of the subject or the picture is useless. To ensure that I get the eye in focus, I use single focus point only. I dont want the camera making a mistake. Unfortunately you can't use servo with a single focus point only

- With candids, timing is everything. So I want to take a picture exactly when the time is right, not when servo catches up to the subject. So it is much faster for me to wait it out and focus in the split second when the moment is right, than to let servo chase the subject around and be completely in the wrong place when I need to take the picture.

But I'm not saying that servo is useless, don't get me wrong. In other types of photography where subjects that are moving really fast and failure rate is really high (flying birds, fast action sports etc) servo can be of tremendous value. I can't imagine shooing a soccer game without it (unless I'm shooting the goalie only ). Continuous fast action requires a completely different approach to photography, especially if you don't know what that "right moment" will be.

thanks for the explaination and yep i can clearly see the different in understanding about ai servo between you and i. about "unfortunately you can't use servo with a single focus point only", i can say that i have been using single focus point along with ai servo and i have never missed my shots - desired focus point(s) is always sharp and in focus... but still depend on how fast the subject is moving. (note: i do not like dof button of 5d mark iii probably my hand is too small to reach that button)

i do not have canon ai servo design or implemtation in hands, but what do you think if i say that i believe that ai servo is designed not based on prediction, but tracking data properties of desired focus point?

 

[Imagination_landB]

This might be marketed at countries with regulations on wifi, gps and signal transmission. It may be that the US gets the full version only and thus the highest priced model of the 3.

Yep. For example, there are both a 600EX-RT and a 600-EX (no radio control), but the latter is only available in certain markets, and the USA isn't one of them.

Ahhh this is THE why. Thank you. So USA/CANADA might have just one version.. I would have prefer to have a version minus the gps and wifi for less money but whatever..

 

[Nishi Drew]

People, stop crapping on the 6D!!! Those who are "disappointed" without ever having shot a single frame with this camera are just being foolish. There is no way that Canon would build a camera that is worse than a four-year old model like the 5DII. Seriously, Canon is not stupid. They want to sell quality. Assuming that the AF is going to be bad based on the number of cross-type points is crazy. Billions upon billions of photos have been shot on 5DII's with it's admittedly mediocre AF. But to assume that a modern camera like the 6D won't be an order of magnitude better based on a spec sheet is just plain crazy.
Wait for some real-world tests by actual photographers - not gadget guides like Engadget or their ilk but people who actually make their living with photos and video - and then decide. In the meantime, quit prowling the fora and go take some pictures with what you already have. Become a better photographer. Then maybe you'll be able to make a truly informed decision.
Stop hating on cameras - or anything else for that matter - based on numbers on a website. If after shooting with the 6D you still feel the same way, then feel free to hate away.

Now this is exactly the kind of argument that ignores the big picture (literally!). Now, how many 5dMkII shots have you seen that had focus issues or the ones that completely missed/didn't get the shot at all because it didn't lock? Oh wait, those pictures aren't posted anywhere because they've been trashed!! It's not the AF that makes great photos, or a 100% VF, or does the addition of Wifi/GPS change it for that matter, but a professional camera system is about "getting the shot" and more so as you rise up the chain of pro bodies, rather than "creating the shot" as better AF, ISO performance and faster FPS all aid in capturing the moment.

And "...Become a better photographer. Then maybe you'll be able to make a truly informed decision." Aha, yes, because YOU are the best photog here who can compare against say whatever he wants to everyone else here. Sure as the saying goes, a great photog can take great pictures with any camera, but that same photog will also want the best tools and capabilities to further develop, enhance and express his work. The 6D doesn't quite exist yet, but look over there, a D600 that beats the 6D purely by spec, what does the 6D have that's make it any more appealing, for the exact same price? Wi-fi and GPS built in, and 1AF point that might be more accurate than what the MarkII has...

It's crazy indeed that the 6D isn't an order of magnitude better than the 5dMarkII, I know, Canon must be insane!
Also, the issue isn't so much Canon being bad, it's every other manufacturer actually delivering compelling gear at a great price point. I want a new camera now and this mysterious 6D won't be out and reviewed until next year, if Canon were really smart then missing pre-Christmas release with a "rebel upgrade FF" is completely ridiculous

 

[pakngah]

Guys, can anyone give me more information about Canon AI Servo and AI Servo II?? found nothing from wiki and google. Really appreciate your help.

 

[ishdakuteb]

Guys, can anyone give me more information about Canon AI Servo and AI Servo II?? found nothing from wiki and google. Really appreciate your help.

i am not sure if this is help, but try to follow this link (page 5): http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/infobank/autofocus/autofocus.do

 

[verysimplejason]

Just a word of warning. I don't think anyone should count on being able to choose between a new 6D and a new 5DII.

Once the 6D hits the shelves, expect the 5DII to disappear. At a minimum, all rebates and discounts on any remaining 5DIIs in dealers' stock will end and dealers will quit receiving any new shipments. Canon did a remarkable job of pulling the 580EXII and making it impossible to find. Expect the same with the 5DII.

Refurbished and used models will remain, but they could very well be selling for as much or more than new models are now going for.

It is not in Canon's best interests to allow consumers to choose between the 6D and a heavily discounted 5DII. By the time the 6D is available, your choices on the new market will be the 6D or the 5DIII.

Pleeeeeease, let the 6D have similar IQ to the 5DmkIII. I'm really counting on this. Today's US$1,549 deal for the MkII is really tempting!. We'll see.

Who knows? It might be better. If it is, it's not the first time Canon did this (remember 5d2?)...

 

[DV333]

Had a chance to play with the 6D a little at the Exposure show in Toronto yesterday. Although the card slots were NOT glued over, I didn't have a card with me to bring back files to peak at...

However, the AF worked quite well. I was able to lock focus on the rafters, which were VERY dark, instantly with the 70-200mm. It worked almost as fast with the 24-105mm.

I was going to drop the money a 5d mk ii, but after holding it my hand and playing around...I think I'll be saving up a few more pennies and getting the 6D after the early adopters run through the first batches and the price drops a little.

Solid camera that fills a gap and updates on the 5d mk ii' abilities.

Cheers.

I also attended Exposure. Played with the 6D LIKE IT. DIDNT put my card in it (dont know why) but seems like it is a baby FF and performs amazing for the price. Dont know if it was money well spent for me choosing the "PAD" focal area or not. But for a feel of the thing... its well worth the wait... ???

 

[sanj]

... I think the purpose of servo is seriously misunderstood.

i am insteresting in your understanding about ai servo. as if you would like to share, i am your audiance...

note: i am using both (with dof button re-config), depending on cases

It is very obvious to me that servo focus should be used every time the distance between camera and subject is changing, even it it is by inches. And this applies to candid shots especially as generally there is movement. Thx.