1D & 1Ds Rumors [CR1]

[Rocky]

Re: 1D & 1Ds Rumors [CR1]

For me, the 1.3X crop on a FF sensor is a gimmick. By switching from FF to 1.3X crop will not by us anything except a smaller file size and a narrower angle of view. We can do the same thing at post process by cropping the FF picture.

 

[bvukich]

Re: 1D & 1Ds Rumors [CR1]

For me, the 1.3X crop on a FF sensor is a gimmick. By switching from FF to 1.3X crop will not by us anything except a smaller file size and a narrower angle of view. We can do the same thing at post process by cropping the FF picture.

Absolutely. 1.3x crop mode is pointless. 1.6x crop mode (assuming to afford EF-S compatibility) is impossible.

For Nikon it makes a little more sense, because their crop lenses vary only in image circle cast; afaik the physical specifications of the mount are identical. With EF-S, lenses are allowed to intrude into the mirror box by a specified amount, and lenses that do (generally wide angle) will not clear a FF mirror.

 

[EYEONE]

Re: 1D & 1Ds Rumors [CR1]

If you think it's a gimmick then don't use it. I personally think it's a good idea. It easily combines the 1D and 1Ds lines and allows users to get that little extra reach if they need it for sports and wildlife photography if they want it. But can switch to FF mode to get wide angle shots or start doing portrait work with the same camera.

And I still think Canon could redesign the mirror motion to allow a EF-S lens to be mounted on a FF camera. But that is beside the point.

 

[Macadameane]

Re: 1D & 1Ds Rumors [CR1]

If more reach is needed and you know you will need to crop, I think a 1.3 or even a 1.6 crop feature would be nice. There's case of quick delivery too. There may not be time to go home and crop 200 photos.

 

[motorhead]

Re: 1D & 1Ds Rumors [CR1]

If the announcement was not really meaning medium format then I'm a lot happier and am likely to be one of the first standing in line for a 40mp full frame body. But why mention medium format if Canon don't mean it? That's just crazy. If it's an oblique reference to the "square" sensor thats been floated before, then thats not MF and its stupid to pretend it is.

A 40mp 36 x 24mm sensor would buy Canon a year or so's breathing space before the opposition match it. Given the delay in the introduction of the 1Ds mk4, anything less than 40mp would prove to me that Canon have been asleep for a couple of years. Even at 40, they will not have bought themselves much time, so it needs to come with best in class DR and noise control.

 

[Rocky]

Re: 1D & 1Ds Rumors [CR1]

If you think it's a gimmick then don't use it. I personally think it's a good idea. It easily combines the 1D and 1Ds lines and allows users to get that little extra reach if they need it for sports and wildlife photography if they want it. But can switch to FF mode to get wide angle shots or start doing portrait work with the same camera.

And I still think Canon could redesign the mirror motion to allow a EF-S lens to be mounted on a FF camera. But that is beside the point.

The "reach" is artificial. You are using the same lens and same pixel density of the sensor. You do not gain any resolution or sharpness by "cropping". Nikon has been pulling back the mirror privot befor flipping the mirror up for a long time ( may be since F 4). The reason of doing that is to increase the size of the mirror to avoid the dimming of the upper part of image in the view finder. They might still holding the pattern right on this. As for using an EF-S lens on a FF is pointless. The image circle of the EF-S just cannot cover the FF.
I do agree with Macadameane that cropping in the camera may be a time saver. On the other hand, we can always use a longer lens or zoom out a little bit instead of cropping.

 

[bvukich]

Re: 1D & 1Ds Rumors [CR1]

If you think it's a gimmick then don't use it. I personally think it's a good idea. It easily combines the 1D and 1Ds lines and allows users to get that little extra reach if they need it for sports and wildlife photography if they want it. But can switch to FF mode to get wide angle shots or start doing portrait work with the same camera.

The perceived increase in reach is just that, perceived.

And I still think Canon could redesign the mirror motion to allow a EF-S lens to be mounted on a FF camera. But that is beside the point.

Not really possible. The mirror requires X amount of space to flip up. The specifications for EF-S overlap that space by Y.

X-Y=broken mirror.

The only way to avoid that would be to make the top pivot point of the mirror move in addition to the leading edge flipping up. Even then, you're probably only buying yourself a couple of mm. That would result in the mirror being slower, less precise, and induce more vibration; and the more complex the motion of the mirror, the worse each of those attributes gets.

 

[bvukich]

Re: 1D & 1Ds Rumors [CR1]

Nikon has been pulling back the mirror privot befor flipping the mirror up for a long time ( may be since F 4).

Interesting, I didn't know they did that. From an engineering standpoint, it just seems like a really bad idea if you can avoid it.

 

[EYEONE]

Re: 1D & 1Ds Rumors [CR1]

If you think it's a gimmick then don't use it. I personally think it's a good idea. It easily combines the 1D and 1Ds lines and allows users to get that little extra reach if they need it for sports and wildlife photography if they want it. But can switch to FF mode to get wide angle shots or start doing portrait work with the same camera.

And I still think Canon could redesign the mirror motion to allow a EF-S lens to be mounted on a FF camera. But that is beside the point.

The "reach" is artificial. You are using the same lens and same pixel density of the sensor. You do not gain any resolution or sharpness by "cropping".

Thanks, I'm fully aware of cropping works on full frame lenses.
I think the ability to choose between FF and a crop mode would be useful.

I do understand that a full size mirror with a normal swing motion would hit the back of an EF-S lens.
I believe the Sony A900 also has a mirror motion that doesn't swing out that much. The front edge of the mirror does not end up very far forward from where it started when a picture is taken. It's more like the mirror is "pushed" up rather than a "swinging" motion.

 

[Rocky]

Re: 1D & 1Ds Rumors [CR1]

Nikon has been pulling back the mirror privot befor flipping the mirror up for a long time ( may be since F 4).

Interesting, I didn't know they did that. From an engineering standpoint, it just seems like a really bad idea if you can avoid it.

Agree. It is not an ideal situation. However. that is the only way Nikon can increase the mirror size. In the OLD days. if a 200mm lens is used in a SLR (film). the upper 1/5 of the image in the viwe finder is darkened.

 

[bvukich]

Re: 1D & 1Ds Rumors [CR1]

I believe the Sony A900 also has a mirror motion that doesn't swing out that much. The front edge of the mirror does not end up very far forward from where it started when a picture is taken. It's more like the mirror is "pushed" up rather than a "swinging" motion.

Just sliding up (or a combination of both) may be plausible with a pentamirror setup if you relieved the corners of the side(roof) mirrors. But with a pentaprism I don't see there being enough room. Interesting thought though.

Do you happen to know if the A900 mirror or prism?

 

[Rocky]

Re: 1D & 1Ds Rumors [CR1]

The mirror on the A900 is effectively getting the same result as Nikon( the "bigger" mirror moves back during the swing )
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydslra900/page3.asp
As far as I know, there is only ONE SLR have a side way moving mirror other than a flip up mirror. It is the Olympus Pen F. That is another story. You can google it if you are interested.

 

[Lawliet]

Re: 1D & 1Ds Rumors [CR1]

Crop mode was first introduced by nikon with their D3s/x cameras.

No, the D2x had it too. Shoot either at 12MP/5fps or cropped down and fast.
Thats a viable option if you're short on processing power or bandwidth.


As for cropping in post: thats throwing away perfectly good buffer space while burdening you with extra processing time. Doesn't matter in the studio, but if you want to be the first one to deliver your pics of an event...

 

[EYEONE]

Re: 1D & 1Ds Rumors [CR1]

I believe the Sony A900 also has a mirror motion that doesn't swing out that much. The front edge of the mirror does not end up very far forward from where it started when a picture is taken. It's more like the mirror is "pushed" up rather than a "swinging" motion.

Just sliding up (or a combination of both) may be plausible with a pentamirror setup if you relieved the corners of the side(roof) mirrors. But with a pentaprism I don't see there being enough room. Interesting thought though.

Do you happen to know if the A900 mirror or prism?

Pentiprism.
A picture of the mirror motion is the 4th picture down on the right. A picture of the Prism is below.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydslra900/page3.asp

 

[EYEONE]

Re: 1D & 1Ds Rumors [CR1]

The mirror on the A900 is effectively getting the same result as Nikon( the "bigger" mirror moves back during the swing )
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydslra900/page3.asp
As far as I know, there is only ONE SLR have a side way moving mirror other than a flip up mirror. It is the Olympus Pen F. That is another story. You can google it if you are interested.

Interesting. I found an artical about it. http://www.cameraquest.com/olypenf.htm

 

[Etienne]

Re: 1D & 1Ds Rumors [CR1]

I'm all for 24 MP 5DIII with 7FPS
Add better AF, reduced moire, improved high ISO, AF during video, pixel binning with crop options and I'd be a happy camper.