1D IV or 5D III or other - Wildlife photos

[TrabimanUK]

Hi guys,

I appreciate that this is a bit early, and there is still a chance the mythical 7DII might appear, but I'm starting to draw up a list of camera gear for my safari in September.

Last time we took a 7D, 2x60D and a 40D, coupled to a 100-400, 70-200 2.8II and a 24-70 each, giving us wide and reach and no need to change lenses.

We have recently purchased a 5D2, which was at a bargain price, so that is on the cards for taking this time, thogh is a bit slow for wildlife. We are looking to upgade some the kit this time (at least the 40D), and within the budget limit of about £1800, the following cameras fall out with good fps and at least good(ish) IQ:

• 1D IV
  5D III
  7D (mark 1)
  70D

I know the 1DX is a killer, having played with one, but it is way unaffordable, and I have no intention to hire, as I can always sell the camera when get back to the UK (it's what we do with the Canon 100-400), so that it effectvely becomes a "free" hire.

So the question is, with a budget of £1800, what would be the best camera to go for, assumning tht the 7Dii doesn't appear, or should I go for e.g. 2 more 7D?

Huge thanks in advance,

Grant

 

[neuroanatomist]

From your list, I'd go with the 5DIII for the combination of excellent IQ, good frame rate, and great AF.

 

[TrabimanUK]

Hi Neuro,

thanks for the advice - much appreciated from you. I'd included the ID IV from an fps perspective, but I see where you're coming from on the AF side of things. I suppose it's beter to get 1 shot in focus than 10 out of focus.

many thanks,

Grant

 

[kurtj29]

I recently sold my 5DMk3 and purchased a used 1DMk4. IMO the 1DMk4 has better IQ and the fps along with the more than comparable AF system make the 1DMk4 the clear choice if you are looking to capture quickly moving subjects. I shoot my son's lacrosse games and using a 5DMk3 was such a frustrating experience I went with my 1DMk2N over the 5DMk3. I will say that as long as it was bright enough and I could keep the shutter over 1/800 sec and ISO under 200 the 1DMk2N was more than a match for the 5DMk3 and I got many more keeper shots.

I have just been amazed at the IQ of the 1DMk4. I still don't understand all the raves about the 5DMk3. I sold my 1DsMk3 and got the 5DMK3 - big mistake and have missed that camera ever since.

I have not shot the 1DX but I would rank in order of IQ: 1DsMk3, 1DMk4, 5DMk3.

For quickly moving subjects: 1DMk4, 1DsMk3, 5DMk3.

 

[Eldar]

I recently sold my 5DMk3 and purchased a used 1DMk4. IMO the 1DMk4 has better IQ and the fps along with the more than comparable AF system make the 1DMk4 the clear choice if you are looking to capture quickly moving subjects. I shoot my son's lacrosse games and using a 5DMk3 was such a frustrating experience I went with my 1DMk2N over the 5DMk3. I will say that as long as it was bright enough and I could keep the shutter over 1/800 sec and ISO under 200 the 1DMk2N was more than a match for the 5DMk3 and I got many more keeper shots.

I have just been amazed at the IQ of the 1DMk4. I still don't understand all the raves about the 5DMk3. I sold my 1DsMk3 and got the 5DMK3 - big mistake and have missed that camera ever since.

I have not shot the 1DX but I would rank in order of IQ: 1DsMk3, 1DMk4, 5DMk3.

For quickly moving subjects: 1DMk4, 1DsMk3, 5DMk3.

Are you sure you exploited the potential of your 5DIII? I have had all three bodies and my experience is different.

The 1DIV is a very good camera and it is now available at very reasonable prices. the 1.3x crop factor is also a nice feature for long range use and it does have a capable AF system. It beats the 5DIII on crop factor, fps and mechanical packaging. But for pretty much everything else, I would rather have the 5DIII. AF is (almost) as good as the 1DX, provided you use it properly (not that difficult by the way). It has the advantage of FF, higher resolution and in my view clearly better IQ than the 1DIV.

The 1DsIII is an excellent camera also, when things does not move too much and you have enough light, but the AF system is antiquarian compared to the 5DIII/1DX.

I would choose the 1DIV if fps, ruggedness and 1.3x crop factor was most important. It will be a significant improvement over what you currently have. But, if I wanted FF and could not get the 1DX, I would choose the 5DIII. If the majority of what you shoot are stationary subjects in good light, I could also consider the 1DsIII, but I would not recommend it for action photography.

It might be that you also should look at the 6D. AF system is more primitive than the 5DIII and 1DIV, but IQ is superb, it has excellent low light performance and it will cost you a lot less. Again, it depends on how action oriented you are.

 

[sanj]

Realize that the safari will end but the camera will remain with you. So choose the best camera, and not a camera just for this trip. Go with latest technology and select 5d3.

 

[expatinasia]

What type of safari and how close do you expect to be to the wildlife?

Reason I ask is that little bit of extra reach on the 1D Mark IV may help with the lenses you have.

As you seem comfortable with the "free hire" system, where you buy, use, and sell when you get back, then perhaps it is worthwhile thinking about a longer lens - a 300 or 400?

Also, how many of you are going on this trip? Personally I would prefer to have one very good body (or two max) and change lenses rather than have different bodies and not need to change lenses.

 

[kurtj29]

"Are you sure you exploited the potential of your 5DIII? I have had all three bodies and my experience is different."

Yes I am sure. I have had all three bodies and each for over a year. Lacrosse is a fast game - called the fastest sport on 2 feet. A 5DMk3 just misses shots. When a offensive player comes into the goal and takes a shot the defense collapses around him. The 1DM4 gets a lot of shots within the 10fps that the 5DMk3 just misses. And really come on - in real practical terms I see no difference in AF performance between the 5DMk3 and the 1DMk4 or even my bright light go to body the 1DMK2n. I think it is just a lot of people wanting to see a difference in the new technology. I get an extremely high keeper rate with all the camera and have never had the AF be my limiting issue. In sports the limiting factor for me has always been the fps. And IQ is an opinion but I just have never been wild about the 5DMk3. The pictures are just flat and uninteresting. I always need to spend more time in post with the 5D images than the 1D. Just my experience.

I think the market speaks. And right now a 1DMk4 used is worth about $400 more than a 5DMk3. And I just paid that premium and could not be happier as I just sold my 5DMmk3 and picked up a 1DMk4.

 

[Eldar]

We agree that the 1DIV beats the 5DIII on fps, which seem to be your priority. But it is no question that the 5DIII has a more advanced and capable AF system than the 1DIV. And for a normal shooting, maybe not including 60mph Cheetah runs, 6fps should be fast enough.

The 1DIV has a dual DIGIC 4 and 45 points AF system, with 39 cross type. The 5DIII has DIGIC 5+ (17x faster than a DIGIC 4) and a non-specified AF processor, 61 points AF system, with 41 cross type. But, like the 1DX, the 1DIV has a more powerful battery, which can drive the focus mechanism on the lens faster than the 5DIII, which in some cases can rule in favor of the 1DIV, but the 5DIII has higher sensitivity.

The attached link points to an article which will give you some input on how to tweak the setup to support your fast action shoots with a 5DIII.
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/9174241280/configuring-your-5d-mark-iii-af-for-fast-action

The text below is how CPN describes the 1D X AF points (which are the same as the 5D III AF points):

"To improve focus accuracy, all 61 AF points feature a dual-line zigzag arrangement, as seen on three AF points within the EOS 7D. This arrangement provides the best aspects of both increased pixel pitch for finer precision and increased AF tracking speed with extra data points, without any of the drawbacks of either solution alone, allowing for both fast and accurate AF."

"Five of the central AF points, arranged vertically down the mid-line of the frame, function as Dual-Cross type AF points with lenses featuring an f/2.8 or faster maximum aperture (as seen on the central AF point of the EOS 7D). This means they are also arranged with a diagonally orientated AF point in an ‘X', plus a conventional horizontally and vertically arranged AF point, like a ‘+', offering increased focus precision."

"With lenses that have a maximum aperture of f/5.6, or faster, the central bank of 21 AF points will all function as cross-type AF sensors, and the left and right banks of 20 AF points each will act as cross-type sensors at f/4 and f/5.6."

"An advantage of the increased focus sensitivity is the ability to detect extreme defocus and correct accordingly. By using the whole AF sensor, where every point is vertical line sensitive at f/5.6 or greater, the lens can be refocused much more quickly than before. As part of this increased sensitivity, the EOS-1D X can now focus in even lower light levels than the EOS-1D Mark IV. Using a single central AF point with an f/2.8 lens, the EOS-1D Mark IV could focus in light levels of EV -1. However, the EOS-1D X is able to focus in EV -2, which is the equivalent of shooting under the light of the full moon."

It is hard to find a subject that is too dark or has too little contrast for the 5D III to focus on. This DSLR simply nails focus in nearly every condition I ask of it.

I don´t know how you had your 5DIII setup or how you process your images, but flat and uninteresting are not what springs to mind when I look at what this camera produces.

 

[StudentOfLight]

For your application having a 1D-IV would be ideal. It's a solid wildlife camera with 1.3x crop factor, great fps, solid build, good ISO performance (only one stop weaker than the 5D-III).

70D has some subtle improvements in image quality over the 7D:
i) More megapixels: 20.2 vs 18.8
ii) Retains Dynamic Range a bit better as ISO is increased
iii) Retains more tonal range as ISO is increased

HOWEVER, the 7D offers a higher fps burst rate and deeper buffer. So if you plan on shooting continuous bursts then 7D will be the more capable camera.

The 5D-III offers at least 1-2 stops higher ISO capability than the other bodies you mentioned. This is handy for wide field Astro-photography or night photography. It also retains dynamic range better than the others as ISO is increased, allowing you to continue shooting where you otherwise might have to call it a day. The 5D-III is also the best for shooting video (with audio monitoring).