46.1mp Canon DSLR Previewed at PhotoPlus 2012? [CR1]
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heptagon said:
Well, I think he's saying that since someone makes a comment/claim that a sales strategy of a product is, not only wrong, but FUNDAMENTALLY wrong, it would help to see some data that would support that claim. If there is no data to support that claim, then it's just another one of the many rubbish comments in this thread.
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my take --- what they will unveil in october will probably be a 1d style camera with a 1d style price, and similar to the 1dx this will be announced but not available till summer 2013. In the meantime, they will also unveil the tricle down too. If they are indeed not only bringing in a new sensor, but a new naming scheme, then it would make sense to have a body scaled to each price niche, so the XXDFDDXX will be aimed at high end pros and have a price tag of about 7-8k. Then they will have a lower end pro body in the 2.5-4.5k range, and eventually we'll see rebel style version in the $750-1500 range.
Think about last year, the 1dx wass announced early, but not seen for a long while. The mk3 was announced and on the market very quickly (which makes sense, most in the market for a 1dx probably needed about a year to allocate enough $$$ to snag one). My guess is we'll see something similar here.
Think about last year, the 1dx wass announced early, but not seen for a long while. The mk3 was announced and on the market very quickly (which makes sense, most in the market for a 1dx probably needed about a year to allocate enough $$$ to snag one). My guess is we'll see something similar here.
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bdunbar79 said:
true dat! its one thing to give an opinion on a site where one is as good as another (after all, this is a rumors site where the signal to noise ratio is, well, not award-winning), but quite another to assert something as true without supporting data.
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nightbreath said:
Sorry - I should've said IMO in my statement. No, I did not look at numbers. I rather look at the level of pricing in terms of competition offerings & their pricing, the fact that the street price of MKIII went down so fast and that much. Also the number of people who were waiting for the upgrade from MKII and who realized that MKIII is out of their financial reach. In Canada the MSRP was announced as $3800 and in just a few months ALL stores priced it down by $300. Is that not an indication of miscalculated pricing? Now as it went all the way down to sub $3K (again, I am aware that this is not MSRP but rather a street price), i see quite a number of early buyers are somewhat angry/frustrated as they paid the full price. I know many of them already paid it off with images taken, but hey if the price was lower initially - that would still be the same cam and extra few hundred $ in their pockets. I wonder if there was another camera model (with a 3-4 year cycle) which pricing was jumping that much in just a few months after the release. Market proved that the real value of the cam is quite below $3K. So yeah, IMO the pricing on MKIII was/is fundamentally wrong.
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nightbreath said:
It's the "snob effect": If something is ridiculously expensive it a) has to be stellar (like the 24-70ii as "THE" lens) and b) people with cheap Nikons will admire you, though their tech is better.
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ablearcher said:
Early adopter here, got mine at the beginning of july and so far has shoot 6 weddings, 1 engagement shoot, about 20 events, and one other larger scale project for a website with it. Could I have waited and spent a little bit less? Sure I could have. But, the camera has already paid for itself and then some..
On another note, the d800 vs the mk3 (that's your obvious price reference) - the mk3 is better compared to the d3, d3s, d4 and the d700 - the d800 is really intended for studio use, where the mk3 is designed to be a beast of a wedding camera.
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dlleno said:
Well, Canon's stock is down 30% this year(the S&P 500 is up 20%) so that's one data point we can use. Also, Nikon's stock is up more that 15%. So while it may not all be the 5D3s fault, something is rotten.
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HurtinMinorKey said:
Which could have something to do with the 5D3, or may not anything at all. Or it could be the 1DX, or not at all. Or........See the problem?
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Just because it's a noisy signal, doesn't mean it's not a signal. It has something to do with Canon, and where there is smoke there is fire. If the 5D3 was killing it, I doubt we'd see Canon's stock fall off so dramatically against the benchmarks. And if you look at the chart, the slide begins right after the release of the 5D3.
Either way, a stock price falling is a sign of trouble for a company. If a company is making bad decisions overall, there is a greater probability that any one decision, no matter how small, was bad.
Either way, a stock price falling is a sign of trouble for a company. If a company is making bad decisions overall, there is a greater probability that any one decision, no matter how small, was bad.
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HurtinMinorKey said:
Stocks are a really tricky thing though. A lot of industry is cyclical, and ironically the DSLR industry tends to be cyclical in overlapping generations for one brand or another. Canon is currently in a downtrend right now in their cycle, while Nikon is currently starting an uptrend. Such statistics don't always stay the same, and cycle period can change quickly. But things aren't that simple, either. Canon has had a lot of other factors to deal with, from natural disasters to recent closures of plants because of things like riots in China. Canon is very sensitive to their market share, and interruptions to production, even minor ones, can mean a fairly significant hit to their bottom line...and the bottom line is one of the most significant effectors of stock price there is as it affects various other statistics and indicators, like P/E ratio, dividend and yield, etc.
On that note, and to the original comment that started this tangent on stock prices...I don't recall the 5D III having particularly lackluster sales at a $3500 price tag. As far as I saw, it was flying off the shelves as fast as the D800, and more of them sold than the D800. I believe part of that is due to the fact that Canon tends to have a stronger supply chain than Nikon, but the 5D III has been extremely popular among wedding photographers. I wouldn't be inclined to point to the 5D III as the sole cause of Canon's declining stock price. Canon is a huge company, and while they may not be as large as Sony in sheer scale, they have their fingers in a LOT of markets related to imaging, photography, optics, and a variety of related electronics and devices. Any one of the major sectors of their extended empire could be affecting their stock price, or many, or all of them. Here in our little world on CR, we see Canon as lagging behind a bit technologically speaking. I'm not really sure thats how the broader world sees them.
As someone who lightly trades stocks myself, Canon is one of the stocks I watch. Most of the stock news related to Canon is more broad-market related, japan index related, than specifically related to the performance of the company itself. I believe Canon is a major company in Japan's major indices, so much like similar companies in the US it can ride the index waves up and down. Lot of pressure on Japanese stock indices lately. Most of the news related directly to the performance of the company seems to be generally good, including a variety of M&A news. However mergers and acquisitions can cause odd behavior in a stock, as people trade in or out of their positions in lieu of share swaps or purchases, dilution of stock, etc. (although I'm not sure any of the M&A news for Canon is really serious.)
Anyway...trying to guage a company like Canon in the context here on CR can be a really tricky thing. Hundreds of factors affect a stock price for a company like Canon. I wouldn't read into a 30% decline in price as solely due to what some may consider a lackluster release year or a presumably high introduction price. Canon still has a LOT going for them, and overall I would call the 5D III and 1D X strengths (yet to see how the 6D fits into things...that one might indeed be a dud!
)
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A new rumor about Canon’s high resolution DSLR (46MP are rumored) showed up at NL.
In an update to the high MP info, we’re told [...] that a camera will eventually appear in a 1D X derived body, in the same way as the 1D C. The information said that the actual designation was not known, but it would essentially be a ’1 series’. There was also a warning that there would be a long wait between any ‘preview’ and any cameras [...] being annouced and subsequently shipping.
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_1D_Xs.html
In an update to the high MP info, we’re told [...] that a camera will eventually appear in a 1D X derived body, in the same way as the 1D C. The information said that the actual designation was not known, but it would essentially be a ’1 series’. There was also a warning that there would be a long wait between any ‘preview’ and any cameras [...] being annouced and subsequently shipping.
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_1D_Xs.html
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HurtinMinorKey said:
Nikon's stock has also fallen 15% since April so what does tell us?
It is impossible to isolate such a marginal product like an expensive pro camera as the culprit. On the other hand, something going wrong with the bread and butter income (entry DSLRs, P&Ss, kit lenses) could potentially be factor. But even then it would have to be something very dramatic and clear cut like a factory blowing up. Lackluster DXO results do not cause panic on the trade floor.
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simonxu11 said:
That's interesting because it would prove that Canon sees the high mp d800 as a threat and they don't think that "20mp is enough" for everyone after all. And it shows that Canon is mainly protective and concerned about their pro user base, and doesn't really care about some low- to midrange buyers switching brands.
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Another way to look at it are the price drops from the MSRP, which can be used to indicate relative sales/demand. In the UK, the D800 has dropped from £2599 (although it was originally announced at £2399 before Nikon said there had been a system error in the pricing) to £2073.98, a drop of 20.2%. In comparison, the 5D MkIII has dropped from £3000 to £2658, a drop of 11.1%. To me, that would suggest that sales of the 5D MkIII are holding up better then the D800. Of course, that could be expected due to the shear numbers of 5D MkII owners, a significant proportion of whom would be interested in an upgrade, in addition to any Canon crop sensor camera owners, who may either upgrade or add to existing cameras. I suspect that any hobbyist sports or wildlife photographers would be particularly interested in the improved image quality over a crop camera, now that they have access to a much improved AF system. Chances are, 7D owners in particular have a significant number or EF (if not L) lenses already at the telephoto end.
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