5D4 @ 30 MP X 7 fps --> enough upside from the 5DS for you?

[StudentOfLight]

Don't forget silent shutter. For many 5D users (wedding photographers in particular, but others as well) this is far more important than frames per second. I'm still having some adjustment shock from losing the 5D silent shutter with the 1Dx II. There is absolutely nothing silent about that shutter. Keeping the shutter silent in the 5D may limit just how fast the frame rate can be.

Agreed. I just purchased the 5DSR for use w wildlife/landscape where max res is desired and when fast action isn't anticipated, and I love the super quiet shutter - unfortunately, the skittish mammalian wildlife I have in mind also would be best shot with a higher ISO capable body. I have the 1DX I that I use for BIF and indoor sports but have tried it for deer/fox on the 'silent' shutter mode and they always jump/bolt unless the wind is howling. Not had this problem with the 5DIII on silent shutter. I'm sure the 1DX II would be fine on a safari with animals accustom to mechanical sounds, but in the eastern forest of the U.S., "click" is more likely to be a trigger pull than a shutter release and natural selection has left its mark. If the 1DX II had a truly silent shutter setting, I would upgrade for that and the other improvements over the 1DX I.

5D4 sounds great, but seems to fall right between my current bodies and I doubt I would compromise to use it - though if I only had one body, it might be the one.

As always, critical features are in the eye of the beholder.

For silent shooting with the 1DX-II what about using 4K MJPEG?

 

[StudentOfLight]

But given I am a hobbyist who primarily shoots birds and critters, a larger buffer and higher frame rate is very important. When I bought my 5D3 I knew it was NOT a dedicated action camera, but found it to be a wonderful does everything well body that I have thoroughly enjoyed.

That said if the 5D4 had offered 10 fps (assuming the 30 MP sensor looks good) I would certainly buy it. As it stands now I am saving for the 1D-X2. I want faster frame rate and a bigger buffer. The 5D3 is an "almost 6 fps" camera in that as the batteries discharge frame rate drops, and fairly quickly. The 5D4 at 7 fps for me was a fatal.

Not criticizing, just analyzing as to how it pertains to me. Everyone will be uniquely different but for this buyer the frame rate was a fatal error. Had it been 9 fps I would have had to give it more thought. At 10 fps it would have stolen at least 1 DX-2 sale!

You are exactly the person I've been talking about for three pages on this thread. You are real, hooray! (Phew -- I'm not crazy.)

Thanks for the post.

- A

An earlier rumor hinted that the 5D-IV might shoot faster (9fps) in mirror-lock-up. If it has DPAF then it would have useful AF in such a mode so not all hope is lost.

 

[wsmith96]

If the latest rumor turns out to be true, 5D4 stills users will get 30 MP x 7 fps.

That would (crudely) put the 5D4 throughput here in comparison:

1DX2 = 20.2 MP x 16 fps = 323.2 MP/s*
5DS = 50 x 5 = 250 MP/s
5D4 = 30 x 7 = 210 MP/s
7D2 = 20.2 MP x 10 fps = 202 MP/s

One would think parity with the 5DS would be in order here, and as such, one might think 8-9 fps might have been the better sweet spot of 'better than the 5D3' yet 'no threat to steal pricier 1DX2 sales'.

Agree/disagree?

- A

I would have liked to see 8 fps or better.

 

[Ozarker]

If the latest rumor turns out to be true, 5D4 stills users will get 30 MP x 7 fps.

That would (crudely) put the 5D4 throughput here in comparison:

1DX2 = 20.2 MP x 16 fps = 323.2 MP/s*
5DS = 50 x 5 = 250 MP/s
5D4 = 30 x 7 = 210 MP/s
7D2 = 20.2 MP x 10 fps = 202 MP/s

One would think parity with the 5DS would be in order here, and as such, one might think 8-9 fps might have been the better sweet spot of 'better than the 5D3' yet 'no threat to steal pricier 1DX2 sales'.

Agree/disagree?

- A

I just don't get why people think 8,9, or 10 fps would be a threat to 1DX Mark II sales. The 7D Mark II probably steals zero sales from the 1DX Mark II. However, there is absolutely no way of knowing that.

In my opinion, each of the three cameras have their own market niche including personal budgets. 10 FPS with Compact Flash/SD Card slots is a far cry from the 1DX Mark II with 14 FPS in viewfinder mode and 16 fps in live view plus Cfast/CF card slots.

There are all kinds of differences between all three cameras. Many seem to think that FPS between the two FF cameras is the decider.

Personally, if the 5D mark IV and the 1DX Mark II were even on my radar right now (In my budget range) and the Mark IV had 10 fps I'd still get the 1DX mark II.

That's just me.

Everyone of course has different triggers and not everyone is driven by the same wants/desires. I seem to be an outlier in that my eyes just prefer larger pixels, even when cropping. I find feathers hold up better when shot with larger pixels. So going to 30MP did NOT excite me while I am sure others are still wishing it were more.

But given I am a hobbyist who primarily shoots birds and critters, a larger buffer and higher frame rate is very important. When I bought my 5D3 I knew it was NOT a dedicated action camera, but found it to be a wonderful does everything well body that I have thoroughly enjoyed.

That said if the 5D4 had offered 10 fps (assuming the 30 MP sensor looks good) I would certainly buy it. As it stands now I am saving for the 1D-X2. I want faster frame rate and a bigger buffer. The 5D3 is an "almost 6 fps" camera in that as the batteries discharge frame rate drops, and fairly quickly. The 5D4 at 7 fps for me was a fatal.

Not criticizing, just analyzing as to how it pertains to me. Everyone will be uniquely different but for this buyer the frame rate was a fatal error. Had it been 9 fps I would have had to give it more thought. At 10 fps it would have stolen at least 1 DX-2 sale!

I know exactly what you are saying and I can appreciate that.

Especially:

Everyone of course has different triggers and not everyone is driven by the same wants/desires. I seem to be an outlier in that my eyes just prefer larger pixels, even when cropping. I find feathers hold up better when shot with larger pixels. So going to 30MP did NOT excite me while I am sure others are still wishing it were more.

At 10 fps it would have stolen at least 1 DX-2 sale!

I have found that just removing the SD card greatly increases the buffer depth and holds the fps much, much better. That is if a person has a fast CF card. I use a SanDisk Extreme Pro 160 MB/s. The buffer is extremely deep when I do that, even in RAW. I also have a very fast SD card, but I don't think the 5D Mark III supports that card. The SD card slows things down a lot. I'm a hobbyist like you. I agree the 30mp might end up being a problem with feather detail. That remains to be seen.

So I agree that some may have decided to buy a 1DX II simply for frame rate and costs be damned.

I was speaking more to the idea posted around suggesting that 10fps would kill 1DX II sales. I don't believe it as there are so many other features that make that camera the only possible choice for a large number of buyers.

So while 10FPS on a Canon 5D body may cost Canon a 1DX II sale, there are other people saving for a 1DX Mark II for a whole host of reasons that have nothing to do with fps. I think it all balances out.

I think Canon was looking forward. In the 5D mark V they can still add more FPS.

If I had the money, I'd buy the 1DX also and for the same reasons you state. Bigger pixels and fps, also f/8 focus point assignment. I'm sure there are other reasons.

Your points are very well taken.

 

[rrcphoto]

That said if the 5D4 had offered 10 fps (assuming the 30 MP sensor looks good) I would certainly buy it.

that actually would have been pretty much impossible.

the 1DX Mark II doesn't even do that throughput with 3 DIGIC processors and a 30WH battery. (14x20=280MP/sec or 9 fps at 30MP)

now you have to fit all that into a smaller 5D camera body.

 

[ahsanford]

And not being a 1DX-level shooter, I haven't followed developments on that rig. Had no idea the 1DX2 silent shutter is not as silent as the 5D3.

So here is the current potential list of reasons why it's only 7 fps:

1) Only 1 chip to keep costs down / profit up
2) Only 1 chip to leave room for other necessary (video?) hardware
3) More than 7 fps might alter the quiet 5D3 silent shutter
4) Canon intentionally nerfed it to avoid undermining 1DX2 sales (seems less likely at only 7 fps)
5) More than 7 fps (with full frame) might drive a costlier / heavier / less battery friendly shutter/mirror setup
6) Any other reasons?

And again -- I don't need high fps, and this isn't a rant at a rumored spec I don't like. I'm just surprised that it's only 7 fps given that the prior model was 6 fps and a 50 MP rig churns out a very respectable 5 fps already.

- A

 

[jdavis37]

That said if the 5D4 had offered 10 fps (assuming the 30 MP sensor looks good) I would certainly buy it.

that actually would have been pretty much impossible.

the 1DX Mark II doesn't even do that throughput with 3 DIGIC processors and a 30WH battery. (14x20=280MP/sec or 9 fps at 30MP)

now you have to fit all that into a smaller 5D camera body.

I had figured it would have 8 fps given by math it would seem close to 9 would be the absolute MAXIMUM.

The truth is (for me) if I want 1 series performance I just cannot expect to steal it at the 5D price point. Nikon has a different culture in how it shares features between bodies (though they did make a mistake with D700 and D3 that was NOT repeated when D3S came out.. never was a D700S) so in the end it is what it is.

The 5Series bodies are incredible bodies and I have thoroughly enjoyed my 5D3. I knew its frame rate and buffer when I bought it. But I would enjoy having more of both

So that leaves with accepting the price tag of the 1D-X2 or waiting this one out. It is difficult to justify $6K for a hobby but then in long run it is far cheaper than golf

I am certain the 5D4 will be a great body for many people. But I'll just continue to save and await the joy of F8 AF all over the place, 14 fps and an unlimited (almost) buffer (after I save to buy the Cfast cards!).

 

[ahsanford]

I am certain the 5D4 will be a great body for many people. But I'll just continue to save and await the joy of F8 AF all over the place, 14 fps and an unlimited (almost) buffer (after I save to buy the Cfast cards!).

At least two folks on this very thread have stated that the plurality of f/8 points is part of the goodness of getting a 1D rig, but given the likeness of the 1DX --> 5D3 AF system, would it be unreasonable to expect the 5D4 AF setup to resemble the 1DX2 AF setup?

In my mind, 10+ fps isn't happening with the 5D4, but the AF system should be (nearly) top of the line. I'm expecting the f/8 options to make it to the 5D4 as well. If they rehash the 5DS setup into the 5D4, I would be disappointed.

- A

 

[PureClassA]

At least two folks on this very thread have stated that the plurality of f/8 points is part of the goodness of getting a 1D rig, but given the likeness of the 1DX --> 5D3 AF system, would it be unreasonable to expect the 5D4 AF setup to resemble the 1DX2 AF setup?

- A

Funny, I just said something like this on another thread. I'm betting we see a fairly good copy of the DX2 AF system on here, just not as fast or a accurate given the lesser processor and lesser power source. Otherwise, I can't fathom Canon not putting in the multiple f8 points on this. I think between that and the points being further spread out like the DX2, we should have a nice little step up here

 

[jdavis37]

At least two folks on this very thread have stated that the plurality of f/8 points is part of the goodness of getting a 1D rig, but given the likeness of the 1DX --> 5D3 AF system, would it be unreasonable to expect the 5D4 AF setup to resemble the 1DX2 AF setup?

- A

Funny, I just said something like this on another thread. I'm betting we see a fairly good copy of the DX2 AF system on here, just not as fast or a accurate given the lesser processor and lesser power source. Otherwise, I can't fathom Canon not putting in the multiple f8 points on this. I think between that and the points being further spread out like the DX2, we should have a nice little step up here

I did not mean to imply the same F8 setup would not be part of the 5D4. I just know it is part of the DX-2 and I coupled things together.

I never understood the lack of Spot metering associated with chosen AF sensor decision (the lack of) for 5D3. This has been a source of frustration for me at times (rubs even worse when you do realize entry level bodies from other brands have this feature). Is hard to say what AF on 5D4 will be like. I suspect similar to the DX-2 at least in setup/application. Spot AF or F8 across the spectrum time will soon tell.

I expect it to be a very good camera given the 5D3 was incredible overall.

 

[PureClassA]

I may be mistaken, but the AF and Metering systems are two separate systems altogether, so I imagine linking the two isn't an automatic. Probably something that could be done in firmware though. I also imagine there has been so much (righteous) complaining about this that Canon will be implementing it. I believe we have this in the DX2, yes?

 

[ahsanford]

I may be mistaken, but the AF and Metering systems are two separate systems altogether, so I imagine linking the two isn't an automatic. Probably something that could be done in firmware though. I also imagine there has been so much (righteous) complaining about this that Canon will be implementing it. I believe we have this in the DX2, yes?

Yes, the 1DX2 allows this. Spot metering linked to the selected (non-center) AF point has been around in 1D models -- and ONLY 1D models -- for some time.

The Nikon D5500 (an $850 camera) has this feature.

My iPhone has this feature.

So, yes -- metering and AF are separate systems, but designers of far far far lower price point offerings have girded their loins, thought big, clenched their teeth with their tongue sticking out like a determined 9 year old in the batters box and solved this diabolical, Sphinxian riddle.

- A

 

[PureClassA]

So, yes -- metering and AF are separate systems, but designers of far far far lower price point offerings have girded their loins, thought big, clenched their teeth with their tongue sticking out like a determined 9 year old in the batters box and solved this diabolical, Sphinxian riddle.

- A

Yes, this is one of those points we probabl (almost) ALL get frustrated about with Canon. It really is a simple firmware/software sort of thing that is otherwise widely saturated into that product market.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Boy this thread is sure more sane than the "other " one. Having shot with the 1D4 (10 fps) I'm not thrilled with a choice of 7 fps but I rationalize that BIF etc. are a smaller portion of what I've been doing. However, some of that hinges on the ownership of only a 6D for most of that time.

30 MP for reach limited cropping is what has my frustration level growing. It frustrates me that I'd still have only 20 MP going across to the 1DX II. I've compared a lot with my friend who shot 1DX, and 6D IQ held up pretty good when I compared our results from shooting together. So now to go from 20 to 20 is not thrilling me. Of course all the other things about the 1DX II, do.

Jack

 

[PureClassA]

Boy this thread is sure more sane than the "other " one. Having shot with the 1D4 (10 fps) I'm not thrilled with a choice of 7 fps but I rationalize that BIF etc. are a smaller portion of what I've been doing. However, some of that hinges on the ownership of only a 6D for most of that time.

30 MP for reach limited cropping is what has my frustration level growing. It frustrates me that I'd still have only 20 MP going across to the 1DX II. I've compared a lot with my friend who shot 1DX, and 6D IQ held up pretty good when I compared our results from shooting together. So now to go from 20 to 20 is not thrilling me. Of course all the other things about the 1DX II, do.

Jack

I own a 6D (love it) and used a 1DX2 extensively for several days (rented from LensRentals). Apart from all the obvious hard feature upgrades the 1DX2 offers, the sensors of the 2 cameras are obviously identical in terms of resolution. I will say the new sensor tech on the DX2 did allow some latitude I didn't have in the 6D near the lower ISO range. Noise performance was a little better (maybe a stop or so) in the upper registers. This was just my personal observation. I didn't do any scientific tests to really dig in.. I didn't have the time. I'd guess the only reason to really get a DX2 over a 6D is if you need the speed and the AF capability (which I certainly do) and the additional video capabilities.

 

[Jack Douglas]

I love the 6D but not for BIF obviously. Sure you can use it but after the 1D4, it's not for me for any action. I never felt a strong need for more than 10 fps but the high ISO of the 1D4 coupled with cropping was bad news.

As the odd other person has expressed there must be some market for a 1 series body with the MP/fps trade off in reverse. The reality is about 90% of my shots get cropped at least a little and often a lot in spite of shooting 300 X2 and so that 30 MP spec is pretty appealing. However, I really want illuminated AF points and I'd really like metering of spot AF and .......

Jack

 

[PureClassA]

I love the 6D but not for BIF obviously. Sure you can use it but after the 1D4, it's not for me for any action. I never felt a strong need for more than 10 fps but the high ISO of the 1D4 coupled with cropping was bad news.

As the odd other person has expressed there must be some market for a 1 series body with the MP/fps trade off in reverse. The reality is about 90% of my shots get cropped at least a little and often a lot in spite of shooting 300 X2 and so that 30 MP spec is pretty appealing. However, I really want illuminated AF points and I'd really like metering of spot AF and .......

Jack

Had the 1DX2 landed with 22 or 24MP, it would have been completely perfect, even with 1-2 fps less But that's in no way to suggest I'm complaining about the 20.2 it has. It's a great camera, and I'm buying one very very soon

 

[privatebydesign]

I love the 6D but not for BIF obviously. Sure you can use it but after the 1D4, it's not for me for any action. I never felt a strong need for more than 10 fps but the high ISO of the 1D4 coupled with cropping was bad news.

As the odd other person has expressed there must be some market for a 1 series body with the MP/fps trade off in reverse. The reality is about 90% of my shots get cropped at least a little and often a lot in spite of shooting 300 X2 and so that 30 MP spec is pretty appealing. However, I really want illuminated AF points and I'd really like metering of spot AF and .......

Jack

I never understood why everybody clamours for AF linked spot metering. I found it to be of very limited value.

 

[PureClassA]

I never understood why everybody clamours for AF linked spot metering. I found it to be of very limited value.

I would agree with you in probably most shooting conditions for most photographers. I tend to shoot manual most of the time anyway, so I'm setting my exposure based on my read anyway.

When I shoot fast action like dance competitions with highly variable lighting conditions etc... spot metering while shooting in Servo (in Aperture mode with my shutter value in a limited range or auto ISO in manual) ... Damn that would be SO helpful. Granted, I realize this is a very unique situation, but it certainly provides a very simply implemented, simple convenience for general shooting as well, but particularly when shooting anytime in servo mode

 

[ahsanford]

I own a 6D (love it) and used a 1DX2 extensively for several days (rented from LensRentals). Apart from all the obvious hard feature upgrades the 1DX2 offers, the sensors of the 2 cameras are obviously identical in terms of resolution. I will say the new sensor tech on the DX2 did allow some latitude I didn't have in the 6D near the lower ISO range. Noise performance was a little better (maybe a stop or so) in the upper registers. This was just my personal observation. I didn't do any scientific tests to really dig in.. I didn't have the time. I'd guess the only reason to really get a DX2 over a 6D is if you need the speed and the AF capability (which I certainly do) and the additional video capabilities.

Or spot metering at any AF point.

#justsaying #illbehereallweek

- A