5D4 Sensor Defect Discovered

[tron]

Anyone have a 1DX2 raw file that's underexposed?

My thoughts exactly

Downloaded yesterday few from DPReviews test. Those are not enough dark, or then the test body does not show this kind of phonomenon. One person sent one file earlier to Michaels Youtube videos comments. That was the kind of extreme test with a screen in a dark room with shadows compeletely clipping and then +5 boost and shadows. That file showed even more stripes than 5D4 in a similar conditions. 5DSR did not, just normal ugly noice. Cannot generalize, but just to mention one example.

Of course we can't but still useful info. Thank you very much for letting us know...

 

[Sporgon]

Anyone have a 1DX2 raw file that's underexposed?

My thoughts exactly

Downloaded yesterday few from DPReviews test. Those are not enough dark,

Chapter and verse....

 

[JukkaS]

1.02 loading on to it right now.
This replacement body is a little worse - its has quite a bright streak right through the middle that starts to show at about 5% less shadow push - wait a second - typing as testing!

Using Tallys tried and tested trick to just reveal the pattern... (yes the lens cap is on, get over it, its just a pattern revealing test). Its simply ISO 100, body cap on, viewfinder covered, 20 seconds. And its a good test because I've seen identical patterns when I push actual photographs. Then in LR just set whites to 81%. Its useful to know the limits of your own sensor.

On 1.01
There is a great big streak up the middle with lots of other streaking. The general colour is reddish. It shows at about 51% push

On 1.02
The brightest streak is gone, and its pretty much like I saw on my first 5D4. The general colour cast is purple and the streaks are more even and less strong.
I actually think now its better than the first body. It doesnt really show anything til about 61% push, and the streaks are more even.

This is at the least interesting and shows that a) Canon know more then they are letting on and b) Maybe theres more to come. Its a huge difference with the firmware change. They be must be specifically targeting, the change is too big.

Top image is the original camera, and the bottom two are pre and post firmware updating.
Also I had Long exposure noise reduction set to Auto in all tests.

So now I'll basically have similar if even slighty better results from this body is my gut feel.

Serial number of the body compared to older - how much bigger?

 

[PixelTrawler]

1.02 loading on to it right now.
This replacement body is a little worse - its has quite a bright streak right through the middle that starts to show at about 5% less shadow push - wait a second - typing as testing!

Using Tallys tried and tested trick to just reveal the pattern... (yes the lens cap is on, get over it, its just a pattern revealing test). Its simply ISO 100, body cap on, viewfinder covered, 20 seconds. And its a good test because I've seen identical patterns when I push actual photographs. Then in LR just set whites to 81%. Its useful to know the limits of your own sensor.

On 1.01
There is a great big streak up the middle with lots of other streaking. The general colour is reddish. It shows at about 51% push

On 1.02
The brightest streak is gone, and its pretty much like I saw on my first 5D4. The general colour cast is purple and the streaks are more even and less strong.
I actually think now its better than the first body. It doesnt really show anything til about 61% push, and the streaks are more even.

This is at the least interesting and shows that a) Canon know more then they are letting on and b) Maybe theres more to come. Its a huge difference with the firmware change. They be must be specifically targeting, the change is too big.

Top image is the original camera, and the bottom two are pre and post firmware updating.
Also I had Long exposure noise reduction set to Auto in all tests.

So now I'll basically have similar if even slighty better results from this body is my gut feel.

Serial number of the body compared to older - how much bigger?

Serial number of the first one started with 0330 and this one starts with 0230 - the rest of the numbers are pretty similar

 

[TimoV]

My camera serial number is 033022000xxx, I don't receive it yet from repair...

 

[unfocused]

Anyone have a 1DX2 raw file that's underexposed?

My thoughts exactly

I have a 1DX2 and lots of files that are underexposed (mistakes happen). But, I won't be "testing" these files, shooting pictures with the lens cap on, or pushing shadows five stops. I'm just not that interested in esoteric experiments to test the limitations of a sensor. Maybe, someday, when I'm very bored and have nothing better to do, but that may be after the 1DX IV comes out,

 

[Loswr]

(Also something I noticed now by chance - it can read the firmware of the lens - is it now possible to update the firmware on canon lens via the camera? My 16-35 f/4 has firmware 1.06 and it looks like its possible)

Lens firmware is reported in previous cameras too but at least some super telephotos had to be taken to service anyway.

Camera models released in 2012 and later can report and update lens firmware. Since 2012, only 5 lenses have had firmware updates released, four were >$7,000 MkII supertele lenses that needed to be sent in (not unusual for high-end gear, the 1D C had to go in for firmware, and in those cases Canon covers all shipping). The 5th lens was the EF 40mm f/2.8 'pancake' and that was downloadable (could be applied tethered or via loading on a memory card).

 

[tron]

Anyone have a 1DX2 raw file that's underexposed?

My thoughts exactly

I have a 1DX2 and lots of files that are underexposed (mistakes happen). But, I won't be "testing" these files, shooting pictures with the lens cap on, or pushing shadows five stops. I'm just not that interested in esoteric experiments to test the limitations of a sensor. Maybe, someday, when I'm very bored and have nothing better to do, but that may be after the 1DX IV comes out,

What was the point to answer only to say you will not do anything? That's your right of course but you could lose the irony.

Actually I would be interested in 1DxII high and low iso night photos since it crossed my mind to return my 5D4 not for exchange but to pay the difference and get a 1DxII (weighing other pros and cons). I live in a light polluted area and only during summer (mostly during vacation) can I take various types (one off high iso, low iso landscape plus a high iso sky, etc ) of landscape astro photos. These shots are not of course of the -5 type but the result cannot be predicted since the terrain can contain totally black big or small areas. On second thought - typing and talking sometimes gives answers - I have a way to manage these black patches even with my "lowly" 5D3 so no worries

In addition maybe someone else will kindly reply...

 

[AlanF]

My own feeling so far is that my 5d4 has a higher limit than my 5d3.
But the 5d3 gradually degrades and the 4 holds til it falls over a cliff. The 3 is random noise, the 4 is streaks.

So far im finding that limit to be high enough not to be a problem. I havent done night city shots yet.

I may have a replacement 5d4 today due to another issue (dust inside the focusing screen out of the box, if the store cant clean it, theyll replace it. Its an annoying dark spot in the viewfinder near the right hand focus points). If so it will be interesting to see if its any different.

Some questions and/or thoughts:

If I were to guess I would say it will be the same. But please can you make the tests and tell us?
The reason is that I am on a second 5D4 which had exactly the same behaviour. First one started with 03 and second with 04.
Now depending on the outcome it may help in decision making:

1. Different (higher) first 2 numbers and no problem (or "problem" if you will): That's it I would return mine!
I would love to but I am not oprimistic...

2. Different (higher) first numbers and same with the first camera: No reason to return it. That's 5D4 period! Happy shooting!

3. Same (or less) first numbers and same problem: No information to use for decision making.

4. Same (or less) first numbers and no problem: Ooops! Huston we have a (random?) problem!
I highly doubt this will be the case though...

I have a first batch body, beginning 01. Absolutely none of the banding problems when pushed 3ev + 5shadows using DPP or +4ev + 100 shadows using DxO.

 

[tron]

My own feeling so far is that my 5d4 has a higher limit than my 5d3.
But the 5d3 gradually degrades and the 4 holds til it falls over a cliff. The 3 is random noise, the 4 is streaks.

So far im finding that limit to be high enough not to be a problem. I havent done night city shots yet.

I may have a replacement 5d4 today due to another issue (dust inside the focusing screen out of the box, if the store cant clean it, theyll replace it. Its an annoying dark spot in the viewfinder near the right hand focus points). If so it will be interesting to see if its any different.

Some questions and/or thoughts:

If I were to guess I would say it will be the same. But please can you make the tests and tell us?
The reason is that I am on a second 5D4 which had exactly the same behaviour. First one started with 03 and second with 04.
Now depending on the outcome it may help in decision making:

1. Different (higher) first 2 numbers and no problem (or "problem" if you will): That's it I would return mine!
I would love to but I am not oprimistic...

2. Different (higher) first numbers and same with the first camera: No reason to return it. That's 5D4 period! Happy shooting!

3. Same (or less) first numbers and same problem: No information to use for decision making.

4. Same (or less) first numbers and no problem: Ooops! Huston we have a (random?) problem!
I highly doubt this will be the case though...

I have a first batch body, beginning 01. Absolutely none of the banding problems when pushed 3ev + 5shadows using DPP or +4ev + 100 shadows using DxO.

Thanks for letting us know. So now I truly feel confused. I remember LSXPhotog (in page 8 ) saying that his rental 5D4 didn't exhibit the issue. So it seems that banding issues were introduced later. I have no way to deal with this so as a further return of the camera (if accepted by the seller) will be most probably meaningless

 

[ZachOly]

Not trying to be a jerk, but after 34 pages of this, if someone claims their 5D4 doesn't have streaks I kind of want a .CR2 file to prove it.

 

[tron]

Not trying to be a jerk, but after 34 pages of this, if someone claims their 5D4 doesn't have streaks I kind of want a .CR2 file to prove it.

I believe Alan (and I thank him too). He could ignore us but he contributed his findings. Don't forget LSXPhotog had mentioned his rental 5D4 didn't exhibit this behavior. Of course now I do not know what to do with my 5D4...

@AlanF: How many stops have you underexposed?

 

[Loswr]

Not trying to be a jerk, but after 34 pages of this, if someone claims their 5D4 doesn't have streaks I kind of want a .CR2 file to prove it.

After 34 pages of this, unless I missed other files, there's only been one RAW file posted...and although the person who posted it intended otherwise, that one file didn't prove there are streaks. So, I hardly think the burden of proof is on those claiming not to see streaks.

But what does make sense is that when you push an image beyond the sensor's limitations, you get poor results. Whether that manifests as blotchy noise, banding, or something else is essentially immaterial. I've tried pushing a nearly black sky hard to simulate blue hour, and it gave unusable results. Is my camera defective? No, I took the shot too late.

 

[PixelTrawler]

My own feeling so far is that my 5d4 has a higher limit than my 5d3.
But the 5d3 gradually degrades and the 4 holds til it falls over a cliff. The 3 is random noise, the 4 is streaks.

So far im finding that limit to be high enough not to be a problem. I havent done night city shots yet.

I may have a replacement 5d4 today due to another issue (dust inside the focusing screen out of the box, if the store cant clean it, theyll replace it. Its an annoying dark spot in the viewfinder near the right hand focus points). If so it will be interesting to see if its any different.

Some questions and/or thoughts:

If I were to guess I would say it will be the same. But please can you make the tests and tell us?
The reason is that I am on a second 5D4 which had exactly the same behaviour. First one started with 03 and second with 04.
Now depending on the outcome it may help in decision making:

1. Different (higher) first 2 numbers and no problem (or "problem" if you will): That's it I would return mine!
I would love to but I am not oprimistic...

2. Different (higher) first numbers and same with the first camera: No reason to return it. That's 5D4 period! Happy shooting!

3. Same (or less) first numbers and same problem: No information to use for decision making.

4. Same (or less) first numbers and no problem: Ooops! Huston we have a (random?) problem!
I highly doubt this will be the case though...

I have a first batch body, beginning 01. Absolutely none of the banding problems when pushed 3ev + 5shadows using DPP or +4ev + 100 shadows using DxO.

Thanks for letting us know. So now I truly feel confused. I remember LSXPhotog (in page 8 ) saying that his rental 5D4 didn't exhibit the issue. So it seems that banding issues were introduced later. I have no way to deal with this so as a further return of the camera (if accepted by the seller) will be most probably meaningless

I think if you replace the camera you will simply see a slighty different pattern (it seems from potn users every body has a unique pattern). Better to use it and enjoy it and maybe either software or firmware yields further improvements. The idea of trying to explain this in a store, then trying to find a better body seems like a challenge.

 

[ZachOly]

Not trying to be a jerk, but after 34 pages of this, if someone claims their 5D4 doesn't have streaks I kind of want a .CR2 file to prove it.

After 34 pages of this, unless I missed other files, there's only been one RAW file posted...and although the person who posted it intended otherwise, that one file didn't prove there are streaks.

Are we talking about that shot of the shopping mall? Because I saw streaking after a +1.5 exposure boost.

 

[ZachOly]

If anyone cares, this is my 5D3.

Lens cap on
35LII, 2.8, 20s, 2sec delay, tripod
Pitch black room
Shot RAW with no in-camera noise reduction

The edit:
PS CC 2017
Camera Raw
+5 stops, +50 whites
WB as shot @ 5200 temp, +5 tint
Exported at 2048px

The image is nearly pitch black until a +3 stop, +50 whites adjustment. At which point you do see some streaking when viewed at 100% and even then you really need to be looking for it.

This took me all of 5min to do the test and make this post.

 

[Loswr]

The image is nearly pitch black until a +3 stop, +50 whites adjustment. At which point you do see some streaking when viewed at 100% and even then you really need to be looking for it.

This took me all of 5min to do the test and make this post.

OMG, stop the presses. When you amplify the heck out of zero signal, you get funky stuff going on with the noise.

That's five minutes of your life you'll never get back…

 

[Loswr]

Not trying to be a jerk, but after 34 pages of this, if someone claims their 5D4 doesn't have streaks I kind of want a .CR2 file to prove it.

After 34 pages of this, unless I missed other files, there's only been one RAW file posted...and although the person who posted it intended otherwise, that one file didn't prove there are streaks.

Are we talking about that shot of the shopping mall? Because I saw streaking after a +1.5 exposure boost.

And I saw effectively none with +1.5 EV, and still none with +4 EV and +100 shadows. What does that prove?

 

[tron]

My own feeling so far is that my 5d4 has a higher limit than my 5d3.
But the 5d3 gradually degrades and the 4 holds til it falls over a cliff. The 3 is random noise, the 4 is streaks.

So far im finding that limit to be high enough not to be a problem. I havent done night city shots yet.

I may have a replacement 5d4 today due to another issue (dust inside the focusing screen out of the box, if the store cant clean it, theyll replace it. Its an annoying dark spot in the viewfinder near the right hand focus points). If so it will be interesting to see if its any different.

Some questions and/or thoughts:

If I were to guess I would say it will be the same. But please can you make the tests and tell us?
The reason is that I am on a second 5D4 which had exactly the same behaviour. First one started with 03 and second with 04.
Now depending on the outcome it may help in decision making:

1. Different (higher) first 2 numbers and no problem (or "problem" if you will): That's it I would return mine!
I would love to but I am not oprimistic...

2. Different (higher) first numbers and same with the first camera: No reason to return it. That's 5D4 period! Happy shooting!

3. Same (or less) first numbers and same problem: No information to use for decision making.

4. Same (or less) first numbers and no problem: Ooops! Huston we have a (random?) problem!
I highly doubt this will be the case though...

I have a first batch body, beginning 01. Absolutely none of the banding problems when pushed 3ev + 5shadows using DPP or +4ev + 100 shadows using DxO.

Thanks for letting us know. So now I truly feel confused. I remember LSXPhotog (in page 8 ) saying that his rental 5D4 didn't exhibit the issue. So it seems that banding issues were introduced later. I have no way to deal with this so as a further return of the camera (if accepted by the seller) will be most probably meaningless

I think if you replace the camera you will simply see a slighty different pattern (it seems from potn users every body has a unique pattern). Better to use it and enjoy it and maybe either software or firmware yields further improvements. The idea of trying to explain this in a store, then trying to find a better body seems like a challenge.

No it is much more difficult. A courier (UPS) comes and gets my camera. It takes 7 to 8 days to reach the store. Then they order another. Last time it took 2 days. Then they send it via UPS Standard. After 7 or 8 more days I get it back!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So I was thinking to tell them to get it back and tell me how much more for a 1DxII. This is why I asked for help (and got rudeness by a specific member). Never mind.

 

[tron]

Here is a second raw file (sorry for the stupid photo I made it in the rush at home) in case someone is interested.

It is shot at -3 2/3

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uz1rj8it9i21xj2/274A7655.CR2?dl=0