6D Autofocus not impressive

[Harry Muff]

I think mostly you get what you pay for, I'de be a little miffed if Canon sold the 6D for 2k and it performed exactly as a 5DMK III (3.4k) or a 1Dx. (7.5k)

Likewise, people are a little miffed that the 6D has less cross points than a Rebel ($750).

I would be happy to participate with my 6D, in any autofocus challenge with anyone who has any Rebel...

The really sad thing is I have a feeling that someone, somewhere in the world has managed come up with an AF competition.

 

[CarlTN]

My original point that was that the "outer" 6d points are too much centered so that there is too much recomposing needed resulting in a focus loss with thin dof. On 60d, the outer points are really outside and the way to move the camera is shorter...

When I first saw a diagram of the AF array for the 6D, before it came out, I would have agreed with you then. However, that diagram was inaccurate. There really isn't that much space outside the focus points on the 6D...so they're plenty useful. I generally don't want to put the plane of sharp focus only on a subject that is literally almost touching the frame's outside border...and that's the only situation I would say that the outer AF points would cause too much camera movement, if recomposing after focus.

If you need the best autofocus from Canon, buy a 1DX, or 5D3...or preferably...the 1DX's replacement. I had thought it would not get replaced until late 2015. But based on recent rumors, it now looks like it will be first or second quarter 2015, with announcement by mid to late 2014. That's an announcement only a year or so from now...

So that means to me, that if I need a 1DX before then, it would make more monetary sense to rent one...or else borrow my cousin's. One thing I don't want to do, is buy a $6700 camera that is soon to be replaced, and then wind up selling it a year later for $4500 or less. The time to buy a 1 series, is most definitely the first year it gets released.

 

[Marsu42]

I would be happy to participate with my 6D, in any autofocus challenge with anyone who has any Rebel...

The latest Rebel 700d has the 60d af system, actually even with a slight upgrade afaik - so I'd take that challenge anytime: When focusing & recomposing with thin dof for mid-frame to the edges I'd wager the guess that I'd get more into af with the 60d than the 6d... the 6d might be more precise, but that won't do you any good if that precision is lost while recomposing.

When I first saw a diagram of the AF array for the 6D, before it came out, I would have agreed with you then. However, that diagram was inaccurate. There really isn't that much space outside the focus points on the 6D...so they're plenty useful.

Hmmm, when I tried the 6d recently (they have them on live display, you can play around as long as you like) my feeling was otherwise, but it's great it's working for you.

If you need the best autofocus from Canon, buy a 1DX, or 5D3.

Yeah, right, I'll just have to switch on my money printer ... and I also think the current ff line is to be replaced rather sooner than later once Canon has new sensor tech which is overdue.

 

[CarlTN]

I would be happy to participate with my 6D, in any autofocus challenge with anyone who has any Rebel...

The latest Rebel 700d has the 60d af system, actually even with a slight upgrade afaik - so I'd take that challenge anytime: When focusing & recomposing with thin dof for mid-frame to the edges I'd wager the guess that I'd get more into af with the 60d than the 6d... the 6d might be more precise, but that won't do you any good if that precision is lost while recomposing.

When I first saw a diagram of the AF array for the 6D, before it came out, I would have agreed with you then. However, that diagram was inaccurate. There really isn't that much space outside the focus points on the 6D...so they're plenty useful.

Hmmm, when I tried the 6d recently (they have them on live display, you can play around as long as you like) my feeling was otherwise, but it's great it's working for you.

If you need the best autofocus from Canon, buy a 1DX, or 5D3.

Yeah, right, I'll just have to switch on my money printer ... and I also think the current ff line is to be replaced rather sooner than later once Canon has new sensor tech which is overdue.

If you are anywhere near Tennessee, you are welcome to come by and we'll have a little autofocus competition. :-D

I know they have the 6D on display everywhere...after having tried one at a display for 30 seconds, I knew it was time to forget 1.6x crop sensors forever! I love everything about it...weight...ergonomics, image quality, price to performance ratio. I admit I bought it from Adorama rather than from Best Buy, because they wanted the full $1999.99, plus tax, and I got mine for $1760 total. That's over $400 less than Best Buy...

I absolutely hate the feel of the 60D, and also could never stand the flip out screen, or the lack of autofocus microadjustment. My 50D at least had that. Its body was also a lot more rigid...being a solid magnesium subframe, rather than partially plastic. To each their own though. The 6D's frame is supposed to not be all magnesium either, but it feels plenty rigid to me.

 

[Marsu42]

I absolutely hate the feel of the 60D, and also could never stand the flip out screen, or the lack of autofocus microadjustment. My 50D at least had that. Its body was also a lot more rigid...being a solid magnesium subframe, rather than partially plastic. To each their own though. The 6D's frame is supposed to not be all magnesium either, but it feels plenty rigid to me.

Then Canon hit the spot for you with the 6d, consider yourself lucky, and I understand if you had a 50d. For me with the 60d as my first dlsr, it'´s the other way around:

Just now I really like it because I often use the swivel screen for odd angle shots (with Magic Lantern focus peaking) and tripod macro (with Magic Lantern focus stacking). If I drop the camera, the lens or flash will break, but the non-mag camera is rather bound to bounce than break (there recently was a thread of metal vs plastic body). Plus most of my shots with crop right now are @iso100-400 and 300mm, some with higher fps then 6d...

I'd buy the 6d for the US price as my *other* dslr body, but in Germany maybe I'll wait some more until autumn because the price is dropping, of course it's a good camera, it's simply severs completely other purpose than the 60d.

Btw one really good feature of the digic5 6d over the digic4 cameras (60d, 5d2) is that there are better Magic Lantern features - raw video, high-res silent pics w/o moving the mirror, ...

 

[mwh1964]

The 6D is 80 percent of the 5D3. But those 20 percent counts for me enough to get the latter.

 

[sdsr]

This thread is getting a bit long and random, but I have a new & real question here. Today I had a test with the 6d (again ) with the 70-300L and while I still feel the 6d is overpriced (Germany: 1700€) for various reasons I ran into a real issue:

How do you manage to get something in focus in the corners?

Obviously it's me because people have been shooting with the 5d2 and thin dof lenses for years, but I cannot seem to manage - on my 60d the outer af points are further from the center, but on the 6d once I focus and recompose the focus is off most of the time. Are there any tutorials how to do it? How do you do it - trial and error, then take the in focus shots?

I understand your concern, but is there such a thing as a FF camera with autofocus points in the corners? Every one I've tried has them all lumped together in a similar area to the 6D's - the main difference with, say, the 5DIII or Nikon D600 in that regard is density of focus points; there's still a large amount of the viewfinder that has none, including the corners. It's not much of a problem for me with my 6D and 5DII as I hardly ever want something in a corner to be the focal point, but if it really matters to you, try an Olympus OM-D (for all I know the same is true of other mirrorless cameras) - the focus points cover the entire viewfinder, including the far corners, and are all equally accurate; I sometimes find myself using them just because I can!

 

[Marsu42]

I understand your concern, but is there such a thing as a FF camera with autofocus points in the corners?

I know, but at least the 5d3 has the af points not as much in the center as 5d2/5d3, so it's probably less way to move the camera to focus & recompose. Nikon d600 isn't any better in this matter afaik btw.

I just wanted to ask around here for experiences when recomposing with a small dof on ff because with the 6d I found it much harder than with my 60d, of course /me lacking the proper technique.

 

[Chuck Alaimo]

I understand your concern, but is there such a thing as a FF camera with autofocus points in the corners?

I know, but at least the 5d3 has the af points not as much in the center as 5d2/5d3, so it's probably less way to move the camera to focus & recompose. Nikon d600 isn't any better in this matter afaik btw.

I just wanted to ask around here for experiences when recomposing with a small dof on ff because with the 6d I found it much harder than with my 60d, of course /me lacking the proper technique.

an idea or 2 --- try stepping back, and framing the shot wider when you are working with extreme DOF - then crop to get the composition you want. The AF point spread on the 5d3 is good I think, remember that on most lenses if you push your focus to far to the corners your getting the softest part of the lens (depending on what lens your using of course. Most lenses though are sharpest in the areas where most camera have their main focus points, so, consider either shooting wider, or putting more space between you and the subject then cropping...

Got to give my new 6d a hard working test this weekend, a good old wedding. It didn't skip a beat. As the dance floor got a bit more active, I did switch to the 5d3 because the servo mode is much better, but even with that said the 6d performed pretty damn good. I I felt confident with it, which was something I worried about when considering the purchase. It does make a real nice partner for the mk3.

Here's a few from the reception ---unedited (I haven't even transfered images to hard drive - these are the jpeg rendered via the wifi ap and emailed to myself!). I am going to give them a nice polish, but, still not fricken bad!!!

 

[Marsu42]

an idea or 2 --- try stepping back, and framing the shot wider when you are working with extreme DOF - then crop to get the composition you want.

Looking at your shots, I see what you mean - it's just I'm not overly happy that the most practical solution to the "thin dof and soft edges" problem is less recomposing but more cropping - if I plan to regularly crop from the 20mp ff sensor I could just keep shooting with a real 18mp crop sensor

Disclaimer (again): The 6d is a good/ok (depending on what value you see for the price) camera, my question here is about specific shooting situations.

 

[Chuck Alaimo]

an idea or 2 --- try stepping back, and framing the shot wider when you are working with extreme DOF - then crop to get the composition you want.

Looking at your shots, I see what you mean - it's just I'm not overly happy that the most practical solution to the "thin dof and soft edges" problem is less recomposing but more cropping - if I plan to regularly crop from the 20mp ff sensor I could just keep shooting with a real 18mp crop sensor

Disclaimer (again): The 6d is a good/ok (depending on what value you see for the price) camera, my question here is about specific shooting situations.

how often do you do shots like this? and, at what time of day? There is the option of using a less shallow DOF. Even on the 7d which had a fairly wide spread of AF points, it wasn't like you had corner to corner coverage. If you wanted to your subject at the far left, or the far right you still had to focus recompose, crop it in post, or stop it down to f4-f8. I don't think there is any SLR out there that has a wide enough point spread for all situations...and the farthest to the right or left will only be on the center line of the frame.

The only advantage staying on a crop sensor might give you is that due to the crop your not using the softer portions of the lens, but DOF will still be an issue as the same OOF areas will be OFF if the shot is framed in the same way.

Also, DOF and OOF areas --- one of the reasons I say frame it wider is - the further back you get from the subject, more of your subject will be in the plane of focus so less of them will be OOF.

Either way, if your doing extreme corner focusing, nothing out there other than shooting in live view and manual focusing will get you there because as far as I know, there is no such camera that has AF points in the extreme corners--

 

[Skirball]

That 6D image isn't remotely close to the actual spread on the camera. It's far tighter and more centered than that.

 

[Wildfire]

That 6D image isn't remotely close to the actual spread on the camera. It's far tighter and more centered than that.

Agreed.

The 5D3 image shows the entire frame, the 6D one is just the AF points in a box smaller than the actual frame.

 

[Chuck Alaimo]

That 6D image isn't remotely close to the actual spread on the camera. It's far tighter and more centered than that.

Agreed.

The 5D3 image shows the entire frame, the 6D one is just the AF points in a box smaller than the actual frame.

it was the best image of the spread i could find in a 2 min search...sorry...either way, the point is that your still not getting corner to corner coverage with any of these AF systems

 

[Hannes]

What the 40/50D does well at least is how the middle points on the diagonals are located spot on in the intersections for rule of thirds and that is after all where a good amount of shots will want the focus

 

[Loswr]

That 6D image isn't remotely close to the actual spread on the camera. It's far tighter and more centered than that.

True.

Here is the 6D AF point array set within the entire frame.

 

[Chuck Alaimo]

That 6D image isn't remotely close to the actual spread on the camera. It's far tighter and more centered than that.

True.

Here is the 6D AF point array set within the entire frame.

TY Neuro...I knew the image i found was off...shouldn't have even posted it.

Either way - as with all things in photography there is a give and take, you give up this and gain that.

I very much enjoy shots where the subject is set to the far left or right, and depending on the DOF i want, I focus recompose or shoot wider and crop.

I have worked with the little XSI, the 7d, the 5d2, 6d, and 5d3. And in post process, my second shooters have used all of what I have and - a 5d Classic, a 1d3s, a t series, and I am just starting to take a look at files from a nikon d3 and a d4. Give and take, above 1600 ISO the 6d, 5d3, d3 and d4 take the cake! The 1d3s files were gorgeous! But, the best that I saw from that body was at the ceremony and the formals. At the reception, good but he had to use heavy flash to get the shots so while they are good, the ambient light is pretty much lost. And as to the 7d - I used that body for 2 years, but after picking up the 5d3, even the extra range didn't matter because at the ISO ranges I typically work in (above 1600), the 5d files cropped looked better than the 7d's uncropped. So far what I see from the 6d is pretty awesome, the files are on par with the mk3. Give and take, I'll gladly give up a few points of AF for that!

 

[ashmadux]

For portrait work, the 6d focus points absolutely stinks. The grouping is far tighter than the range of crops ive used over the years.

I tried REALLY hard to like that camera...but i just couldn't do it. To much to give up on a 1500 dollar body to feel comfortable. The lack of a proper joystick is also a terrible loss, as the directional pad is mushy as all hell and imprecise.

And look at the 7100..totally embarrasses the 6d. Not trying to get into that debate, but seriously, F canon for that nonsense. Yup, if i wanted to shoot landscapes only, it would be hog heaven.

And yet i wait for a 7d2 / 70d.

Beyond Ridiculous.

 

[bholliman]

For portrait work, the 6d focus points absolutely stinks. The grouping is far tighter than the range of crops ive used over the years.

I tried REALLY hard to like that camera...but i just couldn't do it. To much to give up on a 1500 dollar body to feel comfortable. The lack of a proper joystick is also a terrible loss, as the directional pad is mushy as all hell and imprecise.

And look at the 7100..totally embarrasses the 6d. Not trying to get into that debate, but seriously, F canon for that nonsense. Yup, if i wanted to shoot landscapes only, it would be hog heaven.
And yet i wait for a 7d2 / 70d.
Beyond Ridiculous.

We all have different priorities and preferences. For me the 6D has proven to be an excellent camera. After some use, I don't miss the joystick and find the directional pad easy and intuitive to use. I do wish it had more AF points and/or they were spread out more, but have found it still works well for portrait work since I frequently focus and recompose using the center point. I use the outer points when taking really shallow DOF shots and have found this works out well in all but really poor light.

Not sure what you mean by the D7100 embarrassing the 6D... The 6D is full format and the 7100 a DX or 1.5 crop, so the 6D has a much larger (FF) sensor so IQ is of course better. I agree the D7100 tops any of Canons current crop sensor bodies - it's newer! But, only until the 7DII or 70D is released.

 

[Chuck Alaimo]

For portrait work, the 6d focus points absolutely stinks. The grouping is far tighter than the range of crops ive used over the years.

I tried REALLY hard to like that camera...but i just couldn't do it. To much to give up on a 1500 dollar body to feel comfortable. The lack of a proper joystick is also a terrible loss, as the directional pad is mushy as all hell and imprecise.

And look at the 7100..totally embarrasses the 6d. Not trying to get into that debate, but seriously, F canon for that nonsense. Yup, if i wanted to shoot landscapes only, it would be hog heaven.
And yet i wait for a 7d2 / 70d.
Beyond Ridiculous.

We all have different priorities and preferences. For me the 6D has proven to be an excellent camera. After some use, I don't miss the joystick and find the directional pad easy and intuitive to use. I do wish it had more AF points and/or they were spread out more, but have found it still works well for portrait work since I frequently focus and recompose using the center point. I use the outer points when taking really shallow DOF shots and have found this works out well in all but really poor light.

Not sure what you mean by the D7100 embarrassing the 6D... The 6D is full format and the 7100 a DX or 1.5 crop, so the 6D has a much larger (FF) sensor so IQ is of course better. I agree the D7100 tops any of Canons current crop sensor bodies - it's newer! But, only until the 7DII or 70D is released.

I agree with the latter, and in the former it just sounds like nikonenvy...the grass is always greener on the other side where nikons poop gold and pee diamonds...lol