6D Autofocus not impressive

[CarlTN]

Too bad the 6D's buttons weren't placed a couple centimeters more to the right, that would've knocked at least US$500 to it's price. Bummer. ???

Would that place the buttons out in the air beside the grip? Good one!

 

[Marsu42]

I just wanted to say that with a 600EX-RT on top providing the red AF assist grid, the outer points on the 6D work fantastic in any lighting conditions, from bright sunlight to a pitch black room. Now that I've moved to the Canon RT system I have absolutely no problems with the 6D's autofocus

Just two points (though of course it's great you're happy with the combination):

1. You wouldn't have needed the expensive 600rt for that, the larger spread of the newest flash is made for the 1dx/5d3 af array - for the 5d2/6d af a 580ex/430ex/3rdparty-something would be sufficient.

2. Of course you can af in pitch blackness with af assist, same goes for my 60d, but one main advantage of the 6d is to focus w/o beam distraction & shoot in available light (high iso capability) - so fixing the outer af point light sensitivity with af assist doesn't entirely satisfy me.

 

[wilddreamer]

well i believe that you are never check on real life and only read on website. even you check on bnh store: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Digital-Cameras/ci/9811/N/4288586282 u can see that nikon D600 is 100usd more expensive that canon 6D. so do your homework or reality check

Well, your homework consists of finding a globe and trying to find the US. Got it (it might say "Center of the world" on your version)? Good. Then look at all the other countries, amazing, isn't it? Well, and Canon sells dlsr everywhere, that's why I quoted the € (that's "Euro") prices, and even if you don't care about that in an English-written forum there are always the Brits and the Ozzies who don't pay in US-$.

Well there are some Indians as well who don't pay in US$. We have to pay in Indian Rupees.

FWIW, the situation is much the same in India with the D600 is priced at INR 120,120 while the 6D is priced at INR 124,995. Translating into US$, a price difference of approximately US$ 82.

Well i am from indonesia(itson southeast asia in case u dont know). In my country canon 6D is rp.16.500.000 ($1650) and nikon 600D rp.19.000.000 ($1900). And canon so much better in service after sales. I pick canon over nikon anytime anyprice.

 

[TWI by Dustin Abbott]

With a properly calibrated lens/camera combination (AFMA, everyone, and do it right!), I have absolutely no qualms about using outer points on my 6D(s).

This is straight out of camera, taken today, the farthest left focus point, handheld, focused in a split second (previous shot was of the front petal), using the 100L Macro lens. 100% crop included. Depth of field at this distance is .07 of an inch by my calculator (not exactly a lot of room for error), and yet this image is focused perfectly where I want it to be focused.

 

[TWI by Dustin Abbott]

P.S. Not trying to be disrespectful, but it seems to me that the primary posters that keep questioning the AF system on the 6D are those that don't actually own the body. Testing one in shop or using a friends' is not really a substitute for having the camera, calibrating a lens, and becoming familiar with using it. I'm not saying that you can have no knowledge, but you certainly don't have the knowledge that I have acquired by owning two the cameras and taking thousands upon thousands of photos with them in a variety of conditions. I have multiple wide aperture primes and zooms, and I have no focusing problems with my 6D. I don't shoot sports, but I do shot lots of events, and have no problems. If you don't think the AF system is adequate for your needs, then by all means, buy another camera.

 

[Sporgon]

With a properly calibrated lens/camera combination (AFMA, everyone, and do it right!), I have absolutely no qualms about using outer points on my 6D(s).

This is straight out of camera, taken today, the farthest left focus point, handheld, focused in a split second (previous shot was of the front petal), using the 100L Macro lens. 100% crop included. Depth of field at this distance is .07 of an inch by my calculator (not exactly a lot of room for error), and yet this image is focused perfectly where I want it to be focused.

And your outer AF point is horizontal line detecting whereas the stamens of the flower are vertical, so not the easiest target. I have to say that if you know what you're doing the single line sensors are just fine.

+1 on the comments you've made. The 6D AF is actually very good for it's intended purpose. If someone wants to shoot action 'on a budget' you'd be much better served by a 7D anyway.

 

[jrista]

With a properly calibrated lens/camera combination (AFMA, everyone, and do it right!), I have absolutely no qualms about using outer points on my 6D(s).

This is straight out of camera, taken today, the farthest left focus point, handheld, focused in a split second (previous shot was of the front petal), using the 100L Macro lens. 100% crop included. Depth of field at this distance is .07 of an inch by my calculator (not exactly a lot of room for error), and yet this image is focused perfectly where I want it to be focused.

Thanks for the examples. Great stuff. I am not sure what anyone is complaining about...Canon's 9-pt AF system, while certainly not "professional quality", has long been proven to be extremely effective. I can't figure how an 11-pt version with improved center point could be any worse. I think part of the problem may be that people are classifying the 6D as a professional grade camera...when in reality, it is at best a prosumer FF. One shouldn't expect high end, high speed, superior-in-all-respects AF like you get in the 1D X on a prosumer anything.

 

[J.R.]

Shooting indoors without flash, child sitting on sofa, shooting wide open with the 50mm f/1.4 - no option but to focus and recompose.

I agree that the center point of the 6D is very good, but there are times when you need those outer focus points.

I wonder if your 6D is defective. I frequently test new lenses around our apartment at night in low light without flash and never have a problem using the outer focus points (at least on the lenses I have) unless there's not enough contrast where I'm trying to focus. Perhaps it's just the sort of things I photograph, but such situations in my experience are rare (e.g. I like taking shallow-focus photos of a shelf inside a cabinet covered in glasses; clear glass is difficult to focus on at the best of times...); the 5DIII may handle them better, of course.

I don't think that my 6D is defective but I guess I'll check out by borrowing another 6D from a friend and test them side by side.

I checked and there is a BIG difference in the AF performance of my friend's 6D as compared to mine. His 6D's outer focus points lock on quite well but mine don't seem to be anywhere as good. I'm packing my 6D off to Canon service center tomorrow - it's under warranty.

Thanks sdsr!

 

[Sporgon]

^
Are you sure it's not dust specks on the AF sensor causing problems ? I have this on and off all the time. Sometimes an outer point will cease to be able to lock but a clean fixes it. My cameras do get contaminated quickly, but I guess your 6D isn't old enough to have a serious problem.

 

[Marsu42]

P.S. Not trying to be disrespectful, but it seems to me that the primary posters that keep questioning the AF system on the 6D are those that don't actually own the body.

That would be me? The general problem as I see it is that people who have shelled out a lot of $$$ for a dslr might have a bias toward liking the camera, as of course it's a good camera, as is any current dlsr. Fortunately have a very matter-of-fact approach and seem to have a lot of experience with the 6d, but in general I'd be hesitant to prefer any given "owner" opinion over a few hours of "non-owner" testing, esp. if people don't also own the competition (7d, 5d3).

Testing one in shop or using a friends' is not really a substitute for having the camera, calibrating a lens, and becoming familiar with using it. I'm not saying that you can have no knowledge, but you certainly don't have the knowledge that I have acquired by owning two the cameras and taking thousands upon thousands of photos with them in a variety of conditions.

My contribution to this thread was that the af point spread is far smaller than on the crop cameras, and thus focusing & recomposing might get trickier with a small dof, lowering the keeper rate with spot-on af @100% crop. I explicitly suspected that my problems when trying the 6d also have to do with a lack of experience/technique - but even your two cameras are bound to have the af points in the same place as all the other 5d2/6d. So I really appreciate your great input and reviews, but in this case I don't see how extended usage of a camera changes the position of the af points :-o

 

[TWI by Dustin Abbott]

P.S. Not trying to be disrespectful, but it seems to me that the primary posters that keep questioning the AF system on the 6D are those that don't actually own the body.

That would be me? The general problem as I see it is that people who have shelled out a lot of $$$ for a dslr might have a bias toward liking the camera, as of course it's a good camera, as is any current dlsr. Fortunately have a very matter-of-fact approach and seem to have a lot of experience with the 6d, but in general I'd be hesitant to prefer any given "owner" opinion over a few hours of "non-owner" testing, esp. if people don't also own the competition (7d, 5d3).

Testing one in shop or using a friends' is not really a substitute for having the camera, calibrating a lens, and becoming familiar with using it. I'm not saying that you can have no knowledge, but you certainly don't have the knowledge that I have acquired by owning two the cameras and taking thousands upon thousands of photos with them in a variety of conditions.

My contribution to this thread was that the af point spread is far smaller than on the crop cameras, and thus focusing & recomposing might get trickier with a small dof, lowering the keeper rate with spot-on af @100% crop. I explicitly suspected that my problems when trying the 6d also have to do with a lack of experience/technique - but even your two cameras are bound to have the af points in the same place as all the other 5d2/6d. So I really appreciate your great input and reviews, but in this case I don't see how extended usage of a camera changes the position of the af points :-o

Here is my one issue with your contribution to this thread: I think you are very knowledgeable and well informed (that isn't the problem). My problem is that you while you say you are planning to get the 6D, I read you doing little other than continually criticizing it. If you really want the camera, fine, then buy it. If you don't really want it, then buy another a different camera...and that's also fine.

And, with all due respect, the implication that owner's bias trumps the experience they have through ownership is fallacious. If I own something that isn't actually good, I quickly sell it and replace it with something that is. It's that simple.

 

[Marsu42]

My problem is that you while you say you are planning to get the 6D, I read you doing little other than continually criticizing it.

In this case, you really might want to try to read again, I even often put a disclaimer under my posts to prevent just what you implied now. - I went out of my way writing about the 6d being a good camera over crop or 5d2, even topping the 5d3 in some things: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=11309.0

If you really want the camera, fine, then buy it. If you don't really want it, then buy another a different camera...and that's also fine.

Or if I simply want to wait some for the prices in Germany to drop (€100 in the last *week*, here it's still *more* expensive than the d600), that's also fine. While I'm doing that, I feel free to contribute to any threads here from people wondering about the same thing I wondered about, often pointing to my positive 6d fact list mentioned above. In fact, I'd feel free to post even if I'd decide never to buy a 6d because I'd think crop is sufficient for me and let other people know about my decision making process

And, with all due respect, the implication that owner's bias trumps the experience they have through ownership is fallacious. If I own something that isn't actually good, I quickly sell it and replace it with something that is. It's that simple.

Without putting too fine a point on it, in my very humble opinion you are mistaken because there is no alternative to the 6d with Canon and in this price range except for the outdated 5d2. So what would someone who's unhappy with the 6d replace it with? Sell all glass and buy Nikon? Spend €1000 + 6d loss more and get a 5d3? See - it isn't that simple. Plus many people are simply attached to things once they bought it, I know I am.

As for what trumps what - I'd take my privilege to evaluate this on a case by case basis. In your case, experience certainly trumps owner's bias (if there is any at all). In other cases where someone does low light photography, then reads about lacking servo af performance, goes outside, snaps something and posts the (one?) keeper saying "it's just fine" I'm not so sure.

 

[TWI by Dustin Abbott]

Fine. I stand by my points and opinion, and you are equally entitled to yours. I will argue no more - I've got better things to to do 8)

 

[Marsu42]

Fine. I stand by my points and opinion, and you are equally entitled to yours. I will argue no more - I've got better things to to do 8)

Actually, I also have (not that I'd think you'd wanted to imply otherwise), I just felt the need to reply to your criticism since I value your contributions to CR, have fun shooting!

 

[TWI by Dustin Abbott]

Fine. I stand by my points and opinion, and you are equally entitled to yours. I will argue no more - I've got better things to to do 8)

Actually, I also have (not that I'd think you'd wanted to imply otherwise), I just felt the need to reply to your criticism since I value your contributions to CR, have fun shooting!

Agreed!

 

[robbinzo]

I've had a play with the 6D and it seems reasonable. Just playing with it in the shop, I did manage to get a 24-105 lens to hunt for focus using the centre point when I aimed it at a black poorly lit cupboard door. However, I doubt that I will be taking many shots of black poorly lit cupboard doors in my life.
I also realise that lenses make a big difference to the autofocus. On my current 550D for example, the 100L macro focuses in an instant whereas the 50 f/1.4 is relatively slothful.
I've been humming and hawing over the 5D III and the 6D for a while and I will probably go for the 6D just for the wifi capabilities. Sometimes I don't have time to faff about with RAW images and it would be nice just to be able to send some jpegs direct to my tab.
What has been putting me off the 6D is the autofocus. I was not expecting the 5D III autofocus system but I do think that cross type points should be standard - like on the latest rebel body. 11 cross type autofocus points would have been perfect for this camera and would have quietened down the nay-sayers. And yes in some situations the 6D autofocus system is just fine but in others it is wanting. I have small children. They rarely sit still. My 550D rarely copes with them running towards me when I think I'm sneakily photographing them. My Samsung smart phone compares favourably with my 550D in terms of nailing focus. Think about that. Granted, image quality is nowhere near but the best camera is the one you have with you and frankly carrying around a 5D III just on the off chance of getting a snap of my son on a swing in the park is not going to happen.
For me as a non-pro, I want one body. I also would like full frame so I won't be getting the 7D.
For us lowly amateurs, a camera needs to be a bit of a jack of all trades because we just can't be spending thousands on gear when it doesn't get used enough to justify having it (read: the missus would kill me).
Therefore, it is my humble opinion that Canon could have tweaked the autofocus system for the 6D to be just a little bit better.
Let's not forget that the 6D is an expensive camera. At £1500 in the UK, that to most people is a very expensive camera.

 

[Sporgon]

I've had a play with the 6D and it seems reasonable. Just playing with it in the shop, I did manage to get a 24-105 lens to hunt for focus using the centre point when I aimed it at a black poorly lit cupboard door. However, I doubt that I will be taking many shots of black poorly lit cupboard doors in my life.
I also realise that lenses make a big difference to the autofocus. On my current 550D for example, the 100L macro focuses in an instant whereas the 50 f/1.4 is relatively slothful.
I've been humming and hawing over the 5D III and the 6D for a while and I will probably go for the 6D just for the wifi capabilities. Sometimes I don't have time to faff about with RAW images and it would be nice just to be able to send some jpegs direct to my tab.
What has been putting me off the 6D is the autofocus. I was not expecting the 5D III autofocus system but I do think that cross type points should be standard - like on the latest rebel body. 11 cross type autofocus points would have been perfect for this camera and would have quietened down the nay-sayers. And yes in some situations the 6D autofocus system is just fine but in others it is wanting. I have small children. They rarely sit still. My 550D rarely copes with them running towards me when I think I'm sneakily photographing them. My Samsung smart phone compares favourably with my 550D in terms of nailing focus. Think about that. Granted, image quality is nowhere near but the best camera is the one you have with you and frankly carrying around a 5D III just on the off chance of getting a snap of my son on a swing in the park is not going to happen.
For me as a non-pro, I want one body. I also would like full frame so I won't be getting the 7D.
For us lowly amateurs, a camera needs to be a bit of a jack of all trades because we just can't be spending thousands on gear when it doesn't get used enough to justify having it (read: the missus would kill me).
Therefore, it is my humble opinion that Canon could have tweaked the autofocus system for the 6D to be just a little bit better.
Let's not forget that the 6D is an expensive camera. At £1500 in the UK, that to most people is a very expensive camera.

There's a reason why the smart phone copes 'reasonably well' in your situation. The tiny format has massive depth of field.

I know you were joking about focusing on a black door, but try manually focusing on something with no definition; it's all but impossible. A cameras 'range finder' style AF is no different, whether it be x type or not.

I agree this you that the 6D is, in its own right, an expensive camera.

It's also a damn fine one. And there's no 'owners pride' with me. I don't actually buy or own the gear I use.

 

[Wildfire]

What has been putting me off the 6D is the autofocus. I was not expecting the 5D III autofocus system but I do think that cross type points should be standard - like on the latest rebel body. 11 cross type autofocus points would have been perfect for this camera and would have quietened down the nay-sayers.

I agree with you on this, however I will say that all points work great in good light. It's only when things get darker do I start to rely on the center point only. I recently got a few 600EX-RTs and the AF assist grid really makes focusing in the dark with the outer points no problem at all now.

I believe that Canon made the decision to leave out the cross-type AF points to make room for the WiFi and GPS. Unfortunately, I don't use either of those features often so I would have preferred the superior autofocus instead.

 

[robbinzo]

Sporgon, I agree that the 6D is a lovely camera. That's not in doubt. I have almost made up my mind to buy one. For me IQ, ISO performance and wifi are all excellent 6D features.
I should have also said that the focus seemed quite snappy to me indoors in average shop lighting. I only managed to get the focus to hunt on something, like you say, that is very difficult (and frankly pointless).
All the AF points seemed pretty good to me. But then again the autofocus on my 550D has mostly worked well, except in low light.
Personally my own opinion (opinions are like belly buttons - everyone has one but they don't hold much water) is that the 6D should have a better AF system. If it did I'd already own one.

 

[robbinzo]

I believe that Canon made the decision to leave out the cross-type AF points to make room for the WiFi and GPS. Unfortunately, I don't use either of those features often so I would have preferred the superior autofocus instead.

+1