6D logical upgrade from 7D?

[dgatwood]

Yes, good third-party batteries should work fine, but they do have to be batteries specifically built for the 6D.

I don't trust 3rd party batteries. I wouldn't even trust it if it said Energizer on the side. That's just me... I'll pay the extra 20 bucks and know that oem will be the right ohms, wattage, volts, etc. I hated all of that in physics... and I'm still not fond of electricity.

The thing is, any piece of modern electronics is going to use a voltage regulator on the output of the battery to stabilize the output. It's just assumed. So any voltage within a pretty wide tolerance should work. Wattage is irrelevant to resistive loads (which electronics largely are) as long as it is high enough. Ohms are basically irrelevant except when you're charging it.

I recommend the Watson third-party battery that B&H carries. It seems to work well. The second set of batteries that came with my third-party battery grip also seem to work well. (The first were incorrectly chipped and failed to communicate with the camera after one charge cycle.) The high-capacity batteries seem to have a much high rate of problems. I'm not sure why. I ran down a pair of them overnight (at least to the point where they showed one bar) in my 6D, which is an order of magnitude faster fall-off than with proper batteries. Or maybe the level indicators are lying and need to be calibrated by a proper charge-discharge cycle with a genuine Canon charger instead of the third-party charger that I used. Dunno.

 

[CarlTN]

you'll miss the 7D's build if you get the 6D instead of the 5DIII.

I own both a 6D and 7D and haven't noticed much difference in build quality.

Agree. The 6D is built tough just like the 7D, 5D Mark II, and 5D Mark III. No concerns with the build quality of mine whatsoever.

"Construction is solid, if perhaps not offering quite the same bullet-proof feel as the EOS 5D Mark III or EOS 7D. In part this is because the 6D has a plastic top plate, which according to Canon is necessary to allow the Wi-Fi and GPS to work. The rest of the body uses a magnesium alloy shell, and Canon describes it as 'dust and drip-proof'." - http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-6d/3

I handled the 6D - its body is nice and of decent build but not to the level of the 5DIII, 7D or 5DII for that matter. It's also noticeably smaller if you care about such things.

The 5D3 is simply heavier, it's not any more rigid than the 6D (other than of course the top cover). It's weather sealed far more, so that's the only real advantage in the body itself. But it's not as if you can submerge the 5D3...If you like the wider, heavier form factor, then the 5D3 is great. I don't find that I need that form factor. I also, like a few others on here, love the buttons, layout, and feel of the 6D. The buttons on the 7D are too mushy, and the control wheels too stiff. The grip of the 7D is just plain weird, with its "palm bump" that is too narrow, sticks out too much. The shutter release on the 5D3 is way too soft and has no tactile feel.

 

[CarlTN]

Yes, good third-party batteries should work fine, but they do have to be batteries specifically built for the 6D.

I don't trust 3rd party batteries. I wouldn't even trust it if it said Energizer on the side. That's just me... I'll pay the extra 20 bucks and know that oem will be the right ohms, wattage, volts, etc. I hated all of that in physics... and I'm still not fond of electricity.

The thing is, any piece of modern electronics is going to use a voltage regulator on the output of the battery to stabilize the output. It's just assumed. So any voltage within a pretty wide tolerance should work. Wattage is irrelevant to resistive loads (which electronics largely are) as long as it is high enough. Ohms are basically irrelevant except when you're charging it.

I recommend the Watson third-party battery that B&H carries. It seems to work well. The second set of batteries that came with my third-party battery grip also seem to work well. (The first were incorrectly chipped and failed to communicate with the camera after one charge cycle.) The high-capacity batteries seem to have a much high rate of problems. I'm not sure why. I ran down a pair of them overnight (at least to the point where they showed one bar) in my 6D, which is an order of magnitude faster fall-off than with proper batteries. Or maybe the level indicators are lying and need to be calibrated by a proper charge-discharge cycle with a genuine Canon charger instead of the third-party charger that I used. Dunno.

I recall a sign on a recording studio door that said "Danger 1 million ohms!"...I laughed hard!!

 

[TDL2024]

I upgraded to the 6D from the 7D. I wanted the fantastic low light performance and didn't have over $3000. I was very happy with the 7D, but I've been shooting mostly in light challenged situations. I wish I could have kept both. I use a battery grip and can shoot all day with 2 cheap Chinese batteries and gps. If you shoot wifi and gps, you will kill the batteries fast. If you need to be stealthy, take off the grip and put a shorty forty on it and it looks like a rebel. That center point is amazing, but in really low light, all of the other points are useless. It makes composition difficult in low light sometimes. I'll shoot wide and crop in LR in these situations. Get a 5DIII if you need better AF. None of my 3rd party batteries charge in the 6D OEM charger. I bought 2 cheap charger on eBay and they charge fine. When you put 3rd party batteries in the 6D, you get a "Communication Irregularity" error. Just select the "OK" option and the camera will work fine. You just won't get a charge level indicator. I'm very happy with the images and the 6D in general. If you get one, buy the kit. You will get the 24-105 for like half price and can always sell it for a hefty profit. $2000 is a lot, so rent one if you are on the fence.

Thanks, this is exactly what I was hoping to get some input on. Will still probably rent one though, as I'm not sure if my version of low light is the same as others. Maybe I get lucky and it's good enough for me lol

 

[CarlTN]

I upgraded to the 6D from the 7D. I wanted the fantastic low light performance and didn't have over $3000. I was very happy with the 7D, but I've been shooting mostly in light challenged situations. I wish I could have kept both. I use a battery grip and can shoot all day with 2 cheap Chinese batteries and gps. If you shoot wifi and gps, you will kill the batteries fast. If you need to be stealthy, take off the grip and put a shorty forty on it and it looks like a rebel. That center point is amazing, but in really low light, all of the other points are useless. It makes composition difficult in low light sometimes. I'll shoot wide and crop in LR in these situations. Get a 5DIII if you need better AF. None of my 3rd party batteries charge in the 6D OEM charger. I bought 2 cheap charger on eBay and they charge fine. When you put 3rd party batteries in the 6D, you get a "Communication Irregularity" error. Just select the "OK" option and the camera will work fine. You just won't get a charge level indicator. I'm very happy with the images and the 6D in general. If you get one, buy the kit. You will get the 24-105 for like half price and can always sell it for a hefty profit. $2000 is a lot, so rent one if you are on the fence.

Thanks, this is exactly what I was hoping to get some input on. Will still probably rent one though, as I'm not sure if my version of low light is the same as others. Maybe I get lucky and it's good enough for me lol

To reiterate what has been discussed many times since before the 6D's release...the outer points are not cross type (some sense vertical phase, some horizontal). This is very close to the 5D2's arrangement. Only the center point is cross type. This is the main reason the outer points have so much trouble. And again, the 6D seems to want to rely on those outer points as much or more than the center point, if you leave all points active...which only amplifies the problem. (This may or may not be addressed via a firmware or hardware update in the future.) Also, apparently there were several early production samples that featured a completely faulty AF sensor, garnering an even worse reputation for the 6D via word of mouth (and word of web).

I am speaking from the standpoint of a true 6D fan here. Again I have about 8000 cycles on the shutter since March, and much of this was not in multi-shot mode.

So yes, this was an intentional hindering of the 6D's autofocus by Canon. If the 6D had even a slightly better AF system than it does, it certainly would cut into 5D3 sales more so than Canon would want. They wanted distinct product line differentiation. They also wanted (in my opinion) to be able to produce a full frame camera so inexpensively, that it could very often stay below the street price of its Nikon D600 competitor...besides the future 7D2.

Canon wanted to arm this "slow" entry level full frame camera with an image sensor that is truly second only to the 1DX. It even beats the 1DX in certain narrow respects...meaning that in a very narrow way this is the best sensor Canon currently makes....YES IN MY OPINION...having tried and edited all the other current full frame Canons. The 5D3 can possibly have lower chrominance noise at certain ISO's than the 6D, but both it and the 1DX have noticeably higher luminance noise than the 6D, at least up to ISO 12800, if not 16,000...in my experience. Above that things get dicey for all of them, with the 1DX's sensor being the clear winner in that noisy territory.

So they gave the 6D a center point that can focus in (comparatively) near total darkness. They limited the fps to only 4.5, and gave it a puny SDHC card. For the most part the AF can keep up with that 4.5 fps in servo mode, in good light (the lens' ability to work quickly with the 6D is a huge factor here.) It's not a bad proposition...especially considering the 5D3 has sold for twice the price the 6D currently sells at (specifically at the BigValue-whoever-they-are on ebay).

In practical usage, if you are used to a 7D or 5D3, you probably know exactly how to make a 6D misbehave if you get a hold of one...then blame the camera and call it a non-camera that only a "lesser photographer" would own. That still won't stop hordes of people from buying, using, and enjoying the 6D...and generating some of the best digital images ever. This was by design.

 

[sarakoth]

What is wrong with using focus lock and recompose.. leave the camera on centre point and surely you are laughing.. the centre point focus will be much better than the 7D in low light regardless of which AF point you use on the 7D and the IQ from your low light shot will also be much better on FF, especially on the higher ISO settings?

I think people go overboard with the whole must have gazillion focus points and groups. Unless you are Pro in which case you should (or can) cough up for the 5D3 or better.

I distinctly remember manual focus lens that only ever focused in the centre point and people somehow managed.

 

[TDL2024]

What is wrong with using focus lock and recompose.. leave the camera on centre point and surely you are laughing.. the centre point focus will be much better than the 7D in low light regardless of which AF point you use on the 7D and the IQ from your low light shot will also be much better on FF, especially on the higher ISO settings?

I think people go overboard with the whole must have gazillion focus points and groups. Unless you are Pro in which case you should (or can) cough up for the 5D3 or better.

I distinctly remember manual focus lens that only ever focused in the centre point and people somehow managed.

Parallax and issues with using lenses wide open for starters, also there's time: the fact that if shooting a subject that is going through a range of movement and expressions, that split second of focus and recompose might cost you "the shot".

And while the 5D3 is certainly a viable option....IF I were to go that route I'd simply go back to Nikon and go for the D800....but after reading IQ reviews (and watching a dozen or so videos) it seems like the 6D is more than capable IQ-wise. I'm just trying to get any info on whether the camera is directly comparable to the one I have now.

 

[Janbo Makimbo]

What is wrong with using focus lock and recompose.. leave the camera on centre point and surely you are laughing.. the centre point focus will be much better than the 7D in low light regardless of which AF point you use on the 7D and the IQ from your low light shot will also be much better on FF, especially on the higher ISO settings?

I think people go overboard with the whole must have gazillion focus points and groups. Unless you are Pro in which case you should (or can) cough up for the 5D3 or better.

I distinctly remember manual focus lens that only ever focused in the centre point and people somehow managed.

Parallax and issues with using lenses wide open for starters, also there's time: the fact that if shooting a subject that is going through a range of movement and expressions, that split second of focus and recompose might cost you "the shot".

And while the 5D3 is certainly a viable option....IF I were to go that route I'd simply go back to Nikon and go for the D800....but after reading IQ reviews (and watching a dozen or so videos) it seems like the 6D is more than capable IQ-wise. I'm just trying to get any info on whether the camera is directly comparable to the one I have now.

It's not comparable..... Its better...seriously better. I feel qualified to answer that as I made the very same move you are comtemplating and don't regret the move at all.

 

[bholliman]

It's not comparable..... Its better...seriously better. I feel qualified to answer that as I made the very same move you are comtemplating and don't regret the move at all.

Agreed. The 6D is a superior camera to the 7D for what the OP listed as intended uses.

 

[neuroanatomist]

The 6D is a superior camera to the 7D for what the OP listed as intended uses.

So far, the OP has asked:

Are they the same as the 5DII? Better? Same as the 7D? Better? Thanks for any insight!

and stated (bold added by OP),

That center point is amazing, but in really low light, all of the other points are useless. It makes composition difficult in low light sometimes. I'll shoot wide and crop in LR in these situations. Get a 5DIII if you need better AF. None of my 3rd party batteries charge in the 6D OEM charger.

Thanks, this is exactly what I was hoping to get some input on. Will still probably rent one though, as I'm not sure if my version of low light is the same as others. Maybe I get lucky and it's good enough for me lol

...so, I'm not sure how the 6D qualifies as 'superior' for the intended use of shooting with the outer AF points in low light. Speaking from substantial experience with the 5DII's non-cross-type outer AF points, and limited experience with the 6D, I would not rely on the outer AF points in low light. The center point is a different story, but that's not what the OP is asking about.

 

[papa-razzi]

The 6D is not an "upgrade" from the 7D. The cameras are designed for different purposes.

For Image Quality, FF sensor, low light shooting - the 6D is far superior.

For shooting action - FPS, Auto Focus - the 7D is far superior.

If you want both image quality and abiltiy to shoot action, then you must look at a 5D III or a 1Dx.

From what I have understood from the OP's post and responses in this thread, the 5D III is the camera that will satisfy. I suggest keeping a sharp eye out for sales on the 5D III and pulling the trigger when it gets around $2,600 USD. Save the money spent renting a 6D and put it toward a 5DIII.

 

[PureShot]

:-[ Auto Focus - the 7D is far superior :-[
the 6D Auto focus is far superior, i worked last 3 years with 7D and 1 mount with 6D
only one place the 7D win is the fps speed for all other the 6D is so far better camera
don't waste your time to wait and take 6D !
look this photo at high iso, very low light on the pregnant girl
/0/]http://www.studio-photo.ca/galerie/photo-maternite-grossesse/#prettyPhoto[gallery-1]/0/
Pure Shot

 

[bholliman]

The 6D is a superior camera to the 7D for what the OP listed as intended uses.

...so, I'm not sure how the 6D qualifies as 'superior' for the intended use of shooting with the outer AF points in low light. Speaking from substantial experience with the 5DII's non-cross-type outer AF points, and limited experience with the 6D, I would not rely on the outer AF points in low light. The center point is a different story, but that's not what the OP is asking about.

Maybe I didn't ready TDL2024's post as thoroughly as I should have? I recalled this statement:

I don't shoot sports, so a 1D series AF system probably isn't necessary.

But must have missed his last phrase here:

I've never had a camera that the center point wasn't the bee's knees....the only problem is I rarely use those points.

So, if the OP almost always uses the outer AF points, the 6D's AF system with 1 (excellent) center cross-type point and 10 vertical or horizontal points will not perform as well 7D with its 19 cross-type points. The 6D's center point is better than any of the 7D's points, but the 6D's outer AF points are not as good.

If outer AF point performance is the primary criteria, the 5D3 (or 1DX) is really the only logical upgrade for the OP's 7D available now.

 

[bholliman]

The 6D is not an "upgrade" from the 7D. The cameras are designed for different purposes.

For Image Quality, FF sensor, low light shooting - the 6D is far superior.

For shooting action - FPS, Auto Focus - the 7D is far superior.

If you want both image quality and abiltiy to shoot action, then you must look at a 5D III or a 1Dx.

From what I have understood from the OP's post and responses in this thread, the 5D III is the camera that will satisfy. I suggest keeping a sharp eye out for sales on the 5D III and pulling the trigger when it gets around $2,600 USD. Save the money spent renting a 6D and put it toward a 5DIII.

+1

 

[TDL2024]

Well, the general consensus seems to be:

Center point on 6D - Blows away anything else
Outer points - iffy to downright bad

The unfortunate thing is I kinda need those outer points (specifically just the two on the right) to be 7D-ish in speed (cross type I guess). I have a feeling I might end up looking for a deal on a 5DIII...

Thanks for the input guys!

 

[Act444]

You know what - the 6D's outer points are just fine - when you are in good light. I had no trouble with the outer points in a moderately-lit indoor venue. However, if you are trying to focus on anything plain, or you are in low light, they will struggle. Need to use center point in those situations.

If you REALLY need solid, reliable performance from the outer points at all times, 6D is probably not your camera then.

 

[Janbo Makimbo]

The 6D is not an "upgrade" from the 7D. The cameras are designed for different purposes.

For Image Quality, FF sensor, low light shooting - the 6D is far superior.

For shooting action - FPS, Auto Focus - the 7D is far superior.

If you want both image quality and abiltiy to shoot action, then you must look at a 5D III or a 1Dx.

From what I have understood from the OP's post and responses in this thread, the 5D III is the camera that will satisfy. I suggest keeping a sharp eye out for sales on the 5D III and pulling the trigger when it gets around $2,600 USD. Save the money spent renting a 6D and put it toward a 5DIII.

Yes it is....thats why I UPGRADED.... Image Quality, low light shooting (where it focuses much better than a 7D) are what is important.

I had the 7D since it came out, never ever used the high FPS.

Its a better camera than the 5D Mkii which was better than the 7D.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Yes it is....thats why I UPGRADED.... Image Quality, low light shooting (where it focuses much better than a 7D) are what is important.

...what is important to you. I think you forgot to add that part. For someone with a 7D who shoots fast-moving sports, birds in flight, etc., would the 6D be an upgrade? No. A better sensor for low light doesn't help if the AF system can't track your subject...you'll just get low-noise blurry shots.

As I asked elsewhere, is a Mercedes SL550 convertible an 'upgrade' to a Ford F150? Not for someone who needs to haul around loads of dirt or bricks every day...

Can you honestly say the outer AF points of the 6D perform better than those of the 7D?

 

[Janbo Makimbo]

Yes it is....thats why I UPGRADED.... Image Quality, low light shooting (where it focuses much better than a 7D) are what is important.

...what is important to you. I think you forgot to add that part. For someone with a 7D who shoots fast-moving sports, birds in flight, etc., would the 6D be an upgrade? No. A better sensor for low light doesn't help if the AF system can't track your subject...you'll just get low-noise blurry shots.

As I asked elsewhere, is a Mercedes SL550 convertible an 'upgrade' to a Ford F150? Not for someone who needs to haul around loads of dirt or bricks every day...

Can you honestly say the outer AF points of the 6D perform better than those of the 7D?

Well to be honest I did not buy the 6D for its outer points performance, no one would I read the specs and knew what I was getting. To date I have not had any major issues with the focusing points although I do concede that the 7D is far superior in most respects on focussing - apart from the killer 6D centre point

I loved the 7D it was a very capable camera, its just that the 6D takes better pictures.

As I said I did not use the high FPS at all - how often do you use it ?

I take a range of pictures from Macro, portrait, landscape - although the &D was a great camera, top of the range APS-C camera, I do not believe that it is as good as the 6D - bottom of the range FF camera.

I use the 600ex-rt system - the 6D has additional features with the RT system that the 7D can't do - one of the reasons I bought it.

The WiFi is no gimmick and for remote untethered shooting and the ability to display images in the field on an iPad once again a feature I really wanted.

Lastly and most importantly I wanted to go to a FF sensor.... something the 7D is nt - I could not afford a Mark III which is far superior to the 6D.

So all in all the 6D afforded me the upgrade path I wanted!!

 

[Skirball]

As I said I did not use the high FPS at all - how often do you use it ?

There are people that use it quite often. There are people that use it less often, but when they do they need it.

He's not debating any of the points you made about the 6D. He’s simply pointing out that every point you made comparing the two are specific to your needs. Not everyone has the same needs.
For the record, I own and love my 6D. But I’d never compare it against a 7D for sports or fast moving subjects.