A New Style of Camera From Canon Currently Being Tested [CR2]

[HarryFilm]

The burden is on him to show that he's right, given his confident statements and history of being wrong about timelines. The evidence we do have does not support his claims.

I don't have to produce ANY evidence for my claims!
This is NOT a legal forum. I saw what I saw and to me it looked like an oversized 1Dxmk2 rather than this XC-15 look-alike. I was more harping on the possible specs which I have long-espoused which I THINK AND BELIEVE ARE CORRECT!

Did I not also make some claims regarding the Canon C700 cinema camera?
Yeah, I agree it looked nothing like I described originally BUT it seems the specs I regurgitated from various online sources were ALMOST SPOT-ON!

My sources seem pretty spec-heavy, which to me indicates that the data is probably NEARLY SPOT-ON even if the "Look and Feel" of the possible Canon MF camera will probably be something completely different than we expect!

It's that 25 fps at 50 megapixels with a 5 second buffer using JPEG-2000 4:4:4 Wavelet compression specification that intrigues me! With that sort of spec, WHO CARES what the camera looks like in the end! I just want GREAT low-light large sensor shooting of sports/action/wildlife AT THAT 25 fps high quality JPEG-2000 image quality !!!

OBVIOUSLY, Canon is coming out with SOMETHING Medium Format-like! I just hope that the specs above ARE dead-on so I can cheerfully get some decent loan/lease terms when I EAGERLY go and buy it!

 

[Orangutan]

The burden is on him to show that he's right, given his confident statements and history of being wrong about timelines. The evidence we do have does not support his claims.

I don't have to produce ANY evidence for my claims!
This is NOT a legal forum.

Of course, I didn't mean it in that sense: you have no legal obligation. What I meant to say is that if you want us to believe you then you'll need to produce evidence, especially considering the fact that your previous, forcefully asserted claims have come to nothing.

I saw what I saw and to me it looked like an oversized 1Dxmk2

That's certainly an interesting story, it'll be great if it proves out.

My sources seem pretty spec-heavy, which to me indicates that the data is probably NEARLY SPOT-ON

It's easy to write spec-heavy, detailed fiction. For example: https://www.amazon.com/BLUEPRINTS-STAR-GENERATION-NCC-1701-D-Generation/dp/0671500937/

OBVIOUSLY, Canon is coming out with SOMETHING Medium Format-like!

I believe you've said you're trained as an engineer, so please take the following in light of that. When I was an undergrad student, my physics professor used to say "if it's obvious, you'll have no trouble proving it." This is the core of science: assertion, however sincere and well-intended, is no substitute for publicly-presented evidence. If you've seen the camera that's mildly interesting; when we all see it (or some very good photos) then we can call that evidence.

 

[scyrene]

If Canon wants to use their current ef lens for Mirrorless they will need to accommodate the longer flange focal distance. Reminiscent of the old Olympus film cameras like the IS-3 this is one way to do it. The small Sony a7 camera do not balance well with the larger prime and zoom lens.

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I think I will say .... I TOLD YOU SO !!!!

I'm an PRETTY SURE this is the 50 Megapixel Medium Format 25 fps stills camera with Super-HIGH ISO that I was informed about from on-line documents leaked by the Germany/Netherlands photo-enthusiasts group named "Eigenvector"

So to re-iterate what SEEMS to be coming down the pipeline:

- 56mm by 42mm CMOS Bayer Sensor MIRRORLESS camera !!!!

- 16 bits per colour channel (i.e. 48-bit colour) 4:4:4 at 8192 x 6036 pixels (4:3 aspect ratio)

- JPEG-2000 Wavelet based image compression for stills photo in addition to RAW 444

- 6.82 Microns per sensor photosite with 5% improvement in light gathering capability over Canon 1Dxmk2 (i.e. even lower noise in shadows)

- 25 FPS Burst Shooting Rate with a 5 second buffer! (the 5 second buffer is a new stat from the Eigenvector group)

- Articulated OLED touchscreen (i.e. 1920 by 1200 pixels) with selectable DPAF region selection on ANY PART of screen

- Internal SSD Flash-based Hard Drive Storage in the terabyte range!

- Internal GPS and 3D-XYZ MEMS orientiation sensor recording position and camera orientation metadata at user-defined number of frame-based intervals to video file.

- 4K video with full sensor sample (i.e. NO crop sensor sampling) for 60 fps at 4:2:2 10 bits per colour channel and Clog 1/2/3

- 2nd Version of Camera will be sold as a 120 Megapixel landscape oriented photo system with 8-to-10 fps for 120 megapixel photos!

- Multiple very large diameter L-series prime lenses to be released at the same time

- Priced probably between 12 000 to 16 000 Euros at introduction which is HALF the price of a Hasselblad but does 25 FPS at 50 megapixels! That would be the CAMERA OF THE YEAR at 25 fps 50 megapixels!

I am PROBABLY CORRECT in that this was a REAL LEAK about a VERY REAL Canon Medium Format super-stills camera from the Eigenvector group! I should note what I personally thought what I saw online looked more like a really LARGE Canon 1DxMk2 rather than an XC15 --- I can't be sure on that anymore because it was quite a while ago...

Again....I TOLD YOU SO !!!!

Oh, you've been let out on day release then?

 

[scyrene]

What did you tell us? Let's check...

This is a reformatted copy of an email sent to me from colleagues in the Netherlands and Germany in Early 2017 *** CONFIRMING *** that an in-the-wild test prototype was seen in Munich, Germany during a Football match (that's soccer for you Americans!) that was ALSO CONFIRMED via an earlier-in-year and later-in-year PHYSICAL closeup examination of a similar system to be a MEDIUM FORMAT CANON CAMERA that has a very large CMOS sensor in a body style very similar to a Canon 1Dx Mark II camera but of course larger in size to accommodate the larger sensor and lenses.

Thanks for *** CONFIRMING *** that you were wrong, and now it's ALSO CONFIRMED that you don't know what you're talking about. Not that this comes as a surprise to anyone. :

How you know he not right?
Where your evidence to show he wrong?
Posts months apart. Canon have many test cameras, yes? Possible both right?
Try think positive.

All consumer know is what make product, not what test.

We know he'S not right because he is evidently a serial fantasist, and his posts bear no relation to reality.

 

[3kramd5]

“OBVIOUSLY, Canon is coming out with SOMETHING Medium Format-like!”

Nothing based on wish and conjecture can be considered “obvious,” but maybe you left enough wiggle room with the “-like” modifier.

 

[neuroanatomist]

I saw what I saw and to me it looked like an oversized 1Dxmk2 rather than this XC-15 look-alike.

Yet you jumped on this rumor of a new camera design that looks nothing like any current Canon camera, and started shouting, "I told you so," like a petulant child.

 

[HarryFilm]

I saw what I saw and to me it looked like an oversized 1Dxmk2 rather than this XC-15 look-alike.

Yet you jumped on this rumor of a new camera design that looks nothing like any current Canon camera, and started shouting, "I told you so," like a petulant child.

===

The problem is.....that I made a SIMILAR statement of hardware statistics with the Cinema EOS C700 Camera which for the most part, were pretty spot-on! The "Real" C700 camera, of course, looked NOTHING LIKE that C500 look-alike photo that was bandied about in various forums...BUT AGAIN...the stats were almost spot-on.

This is why I grabbed onto the Canon Medium Format Bandwagon...Looking at the drawing of the hand holding the camera...it seems a bit larger in size than the actual current XC-10/XC-15 cameras and it seems that lens diameter on the drawing seems MUCH LARGER than a 35mm EF lens-mount!

This is WHY I think the coming camera is going to be a medium format system.
Again, what I saw in an online forum last year, in my opinion, DID NOT look like this camera drawing but rather an oversized 1D Mk2 ...that said...it might mean Canon MAY HAVE changed its design over the period of time I last mentioned the system. ....OR....there is the possibility that a 2nd type of system is being designed: One for Stills and One for Large Sensor Video!

I should note, there have been times at NAB where I have heard that Canon is "Looking At" moving into Arri Alexa-65 territory but at HALF the cost! (i know Alexa-65 is rental only BUT if it was sold it would a $90,000 camera system!)
I would not be surprised to see that a $45 000 U.S. cost medium format sensor 8K VIDEO camera is also being prototyped now! This latest Canon Drawing MAY BE just that sort of video camera! And a separate MF stills-oriented camera looking more like a 1D series is ALSO being design and/or tested!

You have to admit that lens diameter compared to the hand DOES look a little large for a Full Frame or APC-C size!

 

[AvTvM]

would not be atypical for Canon if they now were to enter MF market ... way late, well behind Fuji GFX ... instead of before ... as to not let new/additional competitors get a foot on the ground ... but we shall see.

Personally i don't care about big, fat "MF" cameras at all. All i *and [presumably] millions of other potential buyers around the globe* want is a very compact and highly capable FF mirrorless system ... ideally with Sony sensor, Canon UI and Canon glass. ;D

 

[neuroanatomist]

All i *and [presumably] millions of other potential buyers around the globe* is a very compact and highly capable FF mirrorless system ... ideally with Sony sensor, Canon UI and Canon glass. ;D

I felt a great disturbance in the Optic, as if millions of potential buyers' voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened.

 

[snoke]

The burden is on him to show that he's right, given his confident statements and history of being wrong about timelines. The evidence we do have does not support his claims.

Only person who say wrong is neutronamist about test camera. Test cameras never public. Stupid to say someone wrong about it. Can't know. Can't prove. Just call it CR1 or CR0. Move on.

Look new rumor. Messy. Canon try many new things?

He says right about C700 specs. Someone check it?

 

[Orangutan]

The burden is on him to show that he's right, given his confident statements and history of being wrong about timelines. The evidence we do have does not support his claims.

Just call it CR1 or CR0. Move on.

I think you answered your own question: by his language, he's asserting that this is CR3+. I'm merely asking him why he wants us to believe it's not CR0 or CR1.

 

[neuroanatomist]

The burden is on him to show that he's right, given his confident statements and history of being wrong about timelines. The evidence we do have does not support his claims.

Only person who say wrong is neutronamist about test camera.

I believe that he's full of the proverbial stinking pile of bovine manure, but where did I say he was wrong about the test camera? I said he was wrong to claim that this rumor (the topic of this thread – about a new non-dSLR form factor) supports his previous statements about a Canon medium format camera which he claimed looked just like a larger 1D X II. Do you believe this current rumor supports his claim? If so, I suppose you also believe the word 'gullible' is not in the dictionary.

 

[unfocused]

...Looking at the drawing of the hand holding the camera...it seems a bit larger in size than the actual current XC-10/XC-15 cameras and it seems that lens diameter on the drawing seems MUCH LARGER than a 35mm EF lens-mount!

This is WHY I think the coming camera is going to be a medium format system...

Here we go again. Pay attention! The drawing is NOT of the supposed camera. It is a patent drawing that CR Guy recycled for this thread. No relationship to the actual, alleged camera.

 

[jolyonralph]

Here we go again. Pay attention! The drawing is NOT of the supposed camera. It is a patent drawing that CR Guy recycled for this thread. No relationship to the actual, alleged camera.

It probably would have been smarter not to have included that drawing. Too many people don't actually read these days

 

[HarryFilm]

...Looking at the drawing of the hand holding the camera...it seems a bit larger in size than the actual current XC-10/XC-15 cameras and it seems that lens diameter on the drawing seems MUCH LARGER than a 35mm EF lens-mount!

This is WHY I think the coming camera is going to be a medium format system...

Here we go again. Pay attention! The drawing is NOT of the supposed camera. It is a patent drawing that CR Guy recycled for this thread. No relationship to the actual, alleged camera.

---

I knew it was a patent drawing, but what I DID NOT KNOW is that it was a recycled one form a long while back!

Still.....if it's the patent drawing for the XC-10/XC-15 camera styles, there SHOULD be some representation of the future direction of Canon. I suspect the engineer who had this drawing done was looking at their specifications and SCALED the drawing to the intended final size of a CURRENT or FUTURE product sitting on some test bench.

And based upon the diameter of the lens compared to the drawing of the human hand holding the camera, AND after I took a further look into how big an X10/XC15 is in the real world, the lens diameter IS LARGER than normal!

Soooo, if the recycled drawing was used in an EARLIER XC-series patent application, I suspect then AT LEAST SINCE 2015 it has Canon prototyping and probably TESTING a real world product that spans quite the future-forward direction. I suspect then that THIS DRAWING is the LIKELY design direction of FUTURE Canon small form factor video cameras and POSSIBLY stills cameras!

If if this is the case, then I expect ANY future MF or high end 8k video camera to likely follow this form factor. There will ALWAYS be a market for a large C300, C500 or C700 style body for higher end productions but I think Canon may have a WINNER with a smaller form factor such as what is displayed being used for BOTH video and Stills be it 35mm FF, 50mm or 65mm+ sized sensors!

I don't think Canon will goto a full Arri-sized sensor which is HUGE! ...BUT...A 50mm or so size would be a good compromise between ultra high end Phase-One/Hasselblad/Alexa-65 sensors and the Full Frame sensors.

It ALSO SEEMS the EF-style mount would STILL work at something the size needed for 50 to 65mm sensors so I again I would not be surprised to see a larger lenses. AND I would not be surprised to see if they can't reduce the weight by going to all-magnesium alloy lenses, all-alloy bodies and super light weight CERAMIC GLASS (i.e. Al2O3) for the optics so the pros will be more interested in switching to the bigger system if the weight is only a little more than as the FF systems.

ANYWAYS....if that likely Canon MF format camera DOES ACTUALLY HAVE a 25 fps at 50 megapixel burst rate then I can say that AT LEAST 30% of the current Canon pro sports/action/wildlife photogs WILL SWITCH OVER almost right away because of FASTER SHOOTING SPEED and GREATER LIGHT GATHERING ability of the larger sensor size!

Canon would literally KILL Hasselblad and Phase-one dead in one fell swoop if that 25 fps at 50 megapixels specification is actually TRUE! Even MORE SO if the 2nd version came out at the same time with a 120 megapixels MF sensor size at 8-to-10 fps!

Anyways....SOMETHING INTERESTING IS COMING FROM CANON..... and my earlier stated camera specifications are PROBABLY GOING TO BE SPOT-ON even IF the final MF camera does NOT look like an outsize 1D mk2!!!

 

[deleteme]

I am casting my lot for those who are voting for an XC-15 type video camera with an EFmount.

While it is tempting to fantasize about Canon making a kitchen sink fanboy wet dream, judging from their history of conservative development that is not what they would do.

They have a very large user base that by and large is happy with incremental change and a wild card camera is exactly what would scare off a lot of the base.

 

[Orangutan]

Here we go again. Pay attention! The drawing is NOT of the supposed camera. It is a patent drawing that CR Guy recycled for this thread. No relationship to the actual, alleged camera.

"I DID NOT KNOW"
+ "I suspect the engineer"
+ "the drawing of the human hand"
+ "I suspect then AT LEAST SINCE 2015"
+ "I expect ANY future MF"
+ "I don't think Canon will goto"
+ "It ALSO SEEMS"
+ "again I would not be surprised to see"
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[CR0]

 

[midluk]

Still.....if it's the patent drawing for the XC-10/XC-15 camera styles, there SHOULD be some representation of the future direction of Canon. I suspect the engineer who had this drawing done was looking at their specifications and SCALED the drawing to the intended final size of a CURRENT or FUTURE product sitting on some test bench.

And based upon the diameter of the lens compared to the drawing of the human hand holding the camera, AND after I took a further look into how big an X10/XC15 is in the real world, the lens diameter IS LARGER than normal!

I don't know much about patents, but I would expect drawings with parts out of proportion to be a method to disguise what you are planning. So the size of a lens housing in a patent application that is not about lens housings does mean nothing, or it is even more likely not the correct size.

 

[AvTvM]

Canon would literally KILL Hasselblad and Phase-one dead in one fell swoop if that 25 fps at 50 megapixels specification is actually TRUE! Even MORE SO if the 2nd version came out at the same time with a 120 megapixels MF sensor size at 8-to-10 fps!

I agree. BUT am still not convinced MF would be a truly profitable business proposition for Canon. Market simply too small, even 100% of it. For a large company like Canon. Small niches are game for (somewhat) smaller players ...

so ... don't believe Canon will launch MF system ... and agree with this:

I am casting my lot for those who are voting for an XC-15 type video camera with an EFmount.
While it is tempting to fantasize about Canon making a kitchen sink fanboy wet dream, judging from their history of conservative development that is not what they would do.
They have a very large user base that by and large is happy with incremental change ....

... as evidenced by scores of mirrorslapping, no adapters, Canon-apologists around here ... and by Canon market share as they love to point out ;D

 

[snoke]

The burden is on him to show that he's right, given his confident statements and history of being wrong about timelines. The evidence we do have does not support his claims.

Only person who say wrong is neutronamist about test camera.

I believe that he's full of the proverbial stinking pile of bovine manure
,...

He post again. You right.