A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information

[dtaylor]

Comments like this make me think people don't know how to use a DSLR. DSLRs are devices that you need to instantly change settings on. You need to be able to dial in exposure on a dime when the light changes. Who in the world, ESPECIALLY pros, want to pull the camera away from their face so they can fiddle with a clunky touch screen?

The touch screen isn't for shutter/aperture. It's for the now hundreds of other settings we have. I can change several things on my M faster then on any DSLR I've handled, including focus point.

And if Canon tweaked the UI a bit it would be even faster.

For certain things I want physical controls. For the rest...touch screen. (Not that this would be a deal breaker.)

 

[RGF]

[
Can you control the camera and use live view over an eyefi card? I have no interest whatsoever in downloading pictures over WiFi.

wifi has no value to me when I shoot wildlife. in fact, unless I am shooting in a studio I can not image using wifi (I am sure I am missing some uses).

Major interest is the new sensor - multiple layer implies higher effect resolution. but what about DR? Unless Canon thinks that this camera will not be used contrasty subjects (which is not true - back lit wildlife, sports, etc).

 

[jrista]

Comments like this make me think people don't know how to use a DSLR. DSLRs are devices that you need to instantly change settings on. You need to be able to dial in exposure on a dime when the light changes. Who in the world, ESPECIALLY pros, want to pull the camera away from their face so they can fiddle with a clunky touch screen?

The touch screen isn't for shutter/aperture. It's for the now hundreds of other settings we have. I can change several things on my M faster then on any DSLR I've handled, including focus point.

And if Canon tweaked the UI a bit it would be even faster.

For certain things I want physical controls. For the rest...touch screen. (Not that this would be a deal breaker.)

That does not change the fact that a touchscreen really does nothing for your PHOTOGRAPHY. Personally, I can blaze through Canon's menu system as it is. Both on the 7D and 5D III (and the latter, which has FAR more settings, is still a breeze). Canon's current menu system wouldn't be any faster with a touch screen...in fact, there might be some difficulties using it. Adding swipe might make it functional for touch, but overall, it wouldn't really be any faster or easier.

They would have to fundamentally change how the menu system works to make it viable for touch...now, how many customers do you think would blow a gasket or erupt like a volcano if Canon did a radical menu system redesign to make, of all things, touch work better? One of the key reasons people stick with the Canon system is the ergonomics, button placement and menu system. I've messed with Nikon's menu system too many times to count now, and it just feels odd, Ironically, it probably isn't all that much different...there is a lot more vertical scrolling, and things often seem difficult to find that just pop out at you on Canon's system. But even those MINOR differences send me crawling for the exits.

Canon would lose MASSIVE numbers of customers if they screwed around with the fundamental design and function of their menu system to make it touch friendly. It's a staple, a fundamental, a critical part of what keeps their customers coming back for more and ridiculously happy (and a lot of Canon users ARE ridiculously happy...if they weren't, Canon's loss of the sensor IQ crown would have caused a hell of a lot more of them to jump ship and switch to whoever provides the better sensor IQ.)

Sure, it's a nice 'touch'...but a touch UI is probably the absolute farthest thing from an essential improvement that the 7D, 5D IV, and 1D XI really, REALLY need. It would just be icing on the cake, and god only knows at what additional cost.

 

[schmidtfilme]

I am still wishing for a hybrid viewfinder. What I mean is a viewfinder that can be used for video... I guess only few people care.

I just dont see how it's possible. You have to lock the mirror up to shoot. Only way to do it is mirrorless.

canon has an EVF that goes on the hotshoe - i'd be surprised if you can't use it on the new 7D.

That would be a perfect solution as well. Not as good as the hybrid viewfinder thing but pretty close.

 

[scottkinfw]

Well said.

In the end, specs are great, but how does it really perform in the field? I for one will be watching and won't be an early adopter.

sek

No wifi or touch screen? Bummer. All future canon prosumer cameras should have BOTH wifi and touch screens IMHO.

Comments like this make me think people don't know how to use a DSLR. DSLRs are devices that you need to instantly change settings on. You need to be able to dial in exposure on a dime when the light changes. Who in the world, ESPECIALLY pros, want to pull the camera away from their face so they can fiddle with a clunky touch screen? It's sad how smartphone mentality is invading every other area of our lives...in many cases, a touch screen is the primitive configuration device, and all the "archaic old buttons and dials" are actually the vastly superior and far more reliable means of controlling and configuring something like a DSLR (or, for that matter, a remote control, an airplane cockpit, or a nuclear launch facility, or pretty much anything where the behavior of a given doodad has to be EXACT, fixed in behavior and place, reliable, hardened against rough activity, instantaneous, and immune to things like software bugs, viruses, etc.)

Touch screens on consumer devices make sense. Touch screens on professional grade devices designed for use by people who know how to train muscle and procedural memory, and prefer instantaneous access to many features of the camera without the need to look at anything, or remove their eye from the viewfinder...are quite frankly the most confusing "innovation" I can think of.

I'm not necessarily against adding a touch screen, but it is FAR from a dealbreaker if one is not included on the 7D II. Same goes for WiFi. It's not an essential...in the end, it does NOTHING for my photography. It's just a handy gizmo that MIGHT make data transfer from the camera to the computer easier. To me, the most critical, fundamental, hell foundational aspects of the 7D line of cameras are frame rate, AF system, metering and sensor. If those things don't add up to a significant upgrade, something like a two-generational update over the 7D I, then I'd be worried.

 

[dtaylor]

That does not change the fact that a touchscreen really does nothing for your PHOTOGRAPHY.

Anything that helps me work faster, easier, or more confidently does something for my photography by letting me focus on what's important.

Canon's current menu system wouldn't be any faster with a touch screen...

Have you actually used a touch screen Canon?

They would have to fundamentally change how the menu system works to make it viable for touch...

That's funny because they have multiple models that already use touch with the existing menu system.

Lack of a touch screen is not a deal breaker, but after using it I'm disappointed to hear that it might not be on the 7D2.

 

[schmidtfilme]

Comments like this make me think people don't know how to use a DSLR. DSLRs are devices that you need to instantly change settings on. You need to be able to dial in exposure on a dime when the light changes. Who in the world, ESPECIALLY pros, want to pull the camera away from their face so they can fiddle with a clunky touch screen?

The touch screen isn't for shutter/aperture. It's for the now hundreds of other settings we have. I can change several things on my M faster then on any DSLR I've handled, including focus point.

And if Canon tweaked the UI a bit it would be even faster.

For certain things I want physical controls. For the rest...touch screen. (Not that this would be a deal breaker.)

That does not change the fact that a touchscreen really does nothing for your PHOTOGRAPHY. Personally, I can blaze through Canon's menu system as it is. Both on the 7D and 5D III (and the latter, which has FAR more settings, is still a breeze). Canon's current menu system wouldn't be any faster with a touch screen...in fact, there might be some difficulties using it. Adding swipe might make it functional for touch, but overall, it wouldn't really be any faster or easier.

They would have to fundamentally change how the menu system works to make it viable for touch...now, how many customers do you think would blow a gasket or erupt like a volcano if Canon did a radical menu system redesign to make, of all things, touch work better? One of the key reasons people stick with the Canon system is the ergonomics, button placement and menu system. I've messed with Nikon's menu system too many times to count now, and it just feels odd, Ironically, it probably isn't all that much different...there is a lot more vertical scrolling, and things often seem difficult to find that just pop out at you on Canon's system. But even those MINOR differences send me crawling for the exits.

Canon would lose MASSIVE numbers of customers if they screwed around with the fundamental design and function of their menu system to make it touch friendly. It's a staple, a fundamental, a critical part of what keeps their customers coming back for more and ridiculously happy (and a lot of Canon users ARE ridiculously happy...if they weren't, Canon's loss of the sensor IQ crown would have caused a hell of a lot more of them to jump ship and switch to whoever provides the better sensor IQ.)

Sure, it's a nice 'touch'...but a touch UI is probably the absolute farthest thing from an essential improvement that the 7D, 5D IV, and 1D XI really, REALLY need. It would just be icing on the cake, and god only knows at what additional cost.

I own a Canon 100D that already has a touch screen. Works very nice. It is in addition to the old style manual controls.

 

[daniela]

Actual Rumors in Japanese chat forums (got infos from an japanese girlfriend:

- 400.000 Yen (>2900€) (variying 300.000-450.000 Y, most rumors on 400.000)
- designed for sports photography. >10 pps, AF speed on miirrorless camera niveau, fast and accurate AF on moving objects (tracking a lot better than actual 7D)
- operationnal design and ergonomy focused on professional use
- IQ better than 7D, more ISO-range, lesser noise. But IQ/DR is not the main optimization goal ( MK4 5D will be designed as an semiprofessional goldenegglayingwoolmilksaw for an non-professional user)

 

[adamdoesmovies]

[
Can you control the camera and use live view over an eyefi card? I have no interest whatsoever in downloading pictures over WiFi.

wifi has no value to me when I shoot wildlife. in fact, unless I am shooting in a studio I can not image using wifi (I am sure I am missing some uses).

Major interest is the new sensor - multiple layer implies higher effect resolution. but what about DR? Unless Canon thinks that this camera will not be used contrasty subjects (which is not true - back lit wildlife, sports, etc).

Wildlife seems like a perfect use for WiFi. Being able to control a second camera without being right next to it is amazing. I think it's extremely regressive for all of these photographers to continually say "Well I'll never use it, so it's useless to everyone!" It's been said about GPS, flip screens, video, digital capture, programmable modes, autofocus, and basically every other feature that's ever hit professional cameras. The thing is, every time, they're wrong. Not everyone is a wedding photographer, not everyone only shoots landscapes. Theres tons of capabilities because there are tons of possibilities, and it's disappointing to see today's photographers trying so hard to stifle innovation in the name of a tradition that never seems to have really existed.

 

[RickWagoner]

No wifi or touch screen? Bummer. All future canon prosumer cameras should have BOTH wifi and touch screens IMHO.

Comments like this make me think people don't know how to use a DSLR. DSLRs are devices that you need to instantly change settings on. You need to be able to dial in exposure on a dime when the light changes. Who in the world, ESPECIALLY pros, want to pull the camera away from their face so they can fiddle with a clunky touch screen? It's sad how smartphone mentality is invading every other area of our lives...in many cases, a touch screen is the primitive configuration device, and all the "archaic old buttons and dials" are actually the vastly superior and far more reliable means of controlling and configuring something like a DSLR (or, for that matter, a remote control, an airplane cockpit, or a nuclear launch facility, or pretty much anything where the behavior of a given doodad has to be EXACT, fixed in behavior and place, reliable, hardened against rough activity, instantaneous, and immune to things like software bugs, viruses, etc.)

Touch screens on consumer devices make sense. Touch screens on professional grade devices designed for use by people who know how to train muscle and procedural memory, and prefer instantaneous access to many features of the camera without the need to look at anything, or remove their eye from the viewfinder...are quite frankly the most confusing "innovation" I can think of.

I'm not necessarily against adding a touch screen, but it is FAR from a dealbreaker if one is not included on the 7D II. Same goes for WiFi. It's not an essential...in the end, it does NOTHING for my photography. It's just a handy gizmo that MIGHT make data transfer from the camera to the computer easier. To me, the most critical, fundamental, hell foundational aspects of the 7D line of cameras are frame rate, AF system, metering and sensor. If those things don't add up to a significant upgrade, something like a two-generational update over the 7D I, then I'd be worried.

Comments like this remind me what people said about the iPhone vs Blackberry keyboard in 2007. People talked how buttons will always win, no company would ever risk using a Touch Screen. Yet today everyone and their grandparents have one. The military uses ipads. The government uses them. Hospitals and surgeons use them. They're being used as a 16 channel recording studio with an array of different guitar ampheads inside. Pilots use them for guidance flying hundreds of lives on board. As far as being a "professional grade device" vs "Consumer device" A simple iPhone has more engineering, design, flawless production, and tighter spec limits than every DSLR Camera on the market put together. A simple iPhone will make a 1dx look like a toy compared to everything that goes inside from start to finish which would be nowhere close to a professional grade device.
Do you have any idea how much research and design goes into the Gorilla glass screen or how much went into the coating on top that makes it feel not like glass (original iphone users would remember those days).

" touchscreen really does nothing for your PHOTOGRAPHY."

Oh boy, umm you do understand todays cellphones are destroying the camera market whole. It is not only better cameras in the phones but unlike a majority of Entry level dslrs, people are using the phones to capture everything and anything, people are using them because of the touch screen! The only segment in the camera market that is doing good is the Entry level DSLR, this is why Canon has a bunch of cheap bodies. People want something better than their phone so they just go to DSLR. As far as having nothing to do with YOUR PHOTOGRAPHY, well this is eventually change what products you can buy in the future. If only a few of these people upgrade from entry level bodies to higher end bodies the companies will have to deliver what those people want and what those people are used to. Touch Screen will become standard eventually on every DSLR and even WIFI.

It is 2014, saying stuff like Touch Screen and WIFI don't matter is like saying a horse and carriage is a professional way of transport vs a consumer device like a car. Everything is all about being intuitive and connected today, from thermostats in our homes to ovens and refrigerators to our health care and military. Touch Screen will always beat buttons on any DSLR in any market for being more intuitive. WIFI and GPS will be standard, actually they should be standard on a DSLR released these days. If the 7Dmark2whatever does not have both you will see an upgraded model in a few years with these features...guaranteed!

 

[Tugela]

Comments like this make me think people don't know how to use a DSLR. DSLRs are devices that you need to instantly change settings on. You need to be able to dial in exposure on a dime when the light changes. Who in the world, ESPECIALLY pros, want to pull the camera away from their face so they can fiddle with a clunky touch screen?

The touch screen isn't for shutter/aperture. It's for the now hundreds of other settings we have. I can change several things on my M faster then on any DSLR I've handled, including focus point.

And if Canon tweaked the UI a bit it would be even faster.

For certain things I want physical controls. For the rest...touch screen. (Not that this would be a deal breaker.)

That does not change the fact that a touchscreen really does nothing for your PHOTOGRAPHY. Personally, I can blaze through Canon's menu system as it is. Both on the 7D and 5D III (and the latter, which has FAR more settings, is still a breeze). Canon's current menu system wouldn't be any faster with a touch screen...in fact, there might be some difficulties using it. Adding swipe might make it functional for touch, but overall, it wouldn't really be any faster or easier.

They would have to fundamentally change how the menu system works to make it viable for touch...now, how many customers do you think would blow a gasket or erupt like a volcano if Canon did a radical menu system redesign to make, of all things, touch work better? One of the key reasons people stick with the Canon system is the ergonomics, button placement and menu system. I've messed with Nikon's menu system too many times to count now, and it just feels odd, Ironically, it probably isn't all that much different...there is a lot more vertical scrolling, and things often seem difficult to find that just pop out at you on Canon's system. But even those MINOR differences send me crawling for the exits.

Canon would lose MASSIVE numbers of customers if they screwed around with the fundamental design and function of their menu system to make it touch friendly. It's a staple, a fundamental, a critical part of what keeps their customers coming back for more and ridiculously happy (and a lot of Canon users ARE ridiculously happy...if they weren't, Canon's loss of the sensor IQ crown would have caused a hell of a lot more of them to jump ship and switch to whoever provides the better sensor IQ.)

Sure, it's a nice 'touch'...but a touch UI is probably the absolute farthest thing from an essential improvement that the 7D, 5D IV, and 1D XI really, REALLY need. It would just be icing on the cake, and god only knows at what additional cost.

It wouldn't change the menu system at all, other than make accessing it faster.

You also have a backward line of thought as to potential utility. Think innovatively instead of regressively. A touch screen is effective for selecting focus/exposure points dynamically, not to mention all the possibilities it opens up when it comes to selecting multiple points to bracket focus ranges or optimize exposure in a scene. It has the potential to greatly expand the creative options for a photographer.

Think of all the possibilities - setting exposure on one point and focusing on another is an example. You can't do that easily with current DSLRs.

For shooting video a touch screen makes image control much easier and more dynamic (critical).

 

[mb66energy]

Actual Rumors in Japanese chat forums (got infos from an japanese girlfriend:

- 400.000 Yen (>2900€) (variying 300.000-450.000 Y, most rumors on 400.000)
- designed for sports photography. >10 pps, AF speed on miirrorless camera niveau, fast and accurate AF on moving objects (tracking a lot better than actual 7D)
- operationnal design and ergonomy focused on professional use
- IQ better than 7D, more ISO-range, lesser noise. But IQ/DR is not the main optimization goal ( MK4 5D will be designed as an semiprofessional goldenegglayingwoolmilksaw for an non-professional user)

This brings me down to earth. Not the price but the statement "IQ/DR is not the main optimization goal".

From this I see a 70D without Wifi, Touch, tilt/swivel display in a ergonomically well equipped package.

I am searching for a 70D sensor/functionality in an EOS 40D package but the 7D ii might head in another direction.

About the discussion:
Wifi or no Wifi
tilt swivel display or fixed display
etc.
Some people have not in mind that a lot of photographers are in the need for a camera with
HIGH image quality
HIGH versatility
HIGH precision
that is able to make 4 or 5 shots per second and
has a PRICING for mortals (max. roughly 2000 $/€)
is LIGHT (below 800 grams)
is APS-C (because you can use good non-Ls and lower priced L lenses)
Please respect that some here are interested in a "goldenegglayingwoolmilksaw" (thanks for that word, daniela) with reasonable IQ or have their individual use scenarios for PHOTOGRAPHY where e.g. Wifi plays a role or the touch screen.

Just one reason for Wifi: After a long walk I tried to take a photograph of a small waterfall with tripod (and camera!). I had to put the tripod on an awkward place and the EOS M had the lens I needed. During trials to see the display I slipped a little bit but was able not to fall down roughy 10 meters. You can survive that but 12 hours pain are guarantied before someone finds you ... no handy network access, no people in reach ... wifi + handy would have been helpful to prevent (moderately) dangerous situations.

 

[jrista]

@RickWagner and @Tugela:

You guys are both thinking about things from a smartphone consumer standpoint. This isn't Blackberry vs. iPhone, or Horse-Drawn Carriages vs. Stem Powered Cars. We aren't talking about run of the mill consumer grade devices here...were talking about refined devices meant for a professional, or extreme hobbyist who might as well be a professional. It's why I brought up airplane cockpits in my prior post...people have talked about making airplane cockpits more modern for decades, however they are still built today primarily with individual dials and knobs and levers and switches and readouts (even the highly advanced Dreamliner). Why? Because it isn't some run of the mill consumer device meant to be easy...but potentially inefficient...and therefor accessible to a billion consumers. It's a system meant for professionals, who have the knowledge to use such a complex device, and the expectations that certain bits of functionality exist in certain ways and are accessible by certain means...because it's important, when push comes to shove, that these things work the way they always have. (In the case of an airplane, that could mean life or death for hundreds...in the case of a DSLR, it could mean getting the shot or not.)

Which goes back to my original comment:

Comments like this make me think people don't know how to use a DSLR. DSLRs are devices that you need to instantly change settings on. ... It's sad how smartphone mentality is invading every other area of our lives...in many cases, a touch screen is the primitive configuration device, and all the "archaic old buttons and dials" are actually the vastly superior and far more reliable means of controlling and configuring something like a DSLR (or, for that matter, a remote control, an airplane cockpit, or a nuclear launch facility, or pretty much anything where the behavior of a given doodad has to be EXACT, fixed in behavior and place, reliable, hardened against rough activity, instantaneous, and immune to things like software bugs, viruses, etc.)

Digging through menus is one thing...however, how often do you really do that? I do it periodically, however in the grand scheme of things, once I have my Canon cameras set up for how I use them, I don't spend a lot of time in the menu systems, or for that matter on the quick view screen (the grid that shows up on the back LCD, which shows the current state of your camera...exposure settings, white balance, AF mode, etc.) When I do find myself in them, I've never found the dials or set button to be an encumberance...I can fly through Canon's menu system without even thinking about it. Touch might offer an alternative means, but I truly don't think it would be any faster or better. Just different. And I'd probably keep doing things the same way I have been for years, since it's programmed and automatic...I don't have to think about it.

I use my camera for photography. In my photography, which primarily involves shooting action (the primary use case for a camera like the 7D II or 1D X, and in many cases even the 5D III), when I'm actually doing photography, I use the buttons and dials. I rarely even remove the camera from my face when I have a subject in view. I use nothing but what is visible in the viewfinder, and basic muscle and procedural memory, to completely reconfigure the camera as needed, from an exposure, white balance, metering, and AF standpoint, for the subject and lighting I'm photographing. THAT is my photography. THAT is what I do with a camera.

Digging around through menu systems, or poking around through the quick access screen, are things I do when I'm NOT actually doing photography. There are a couple other use cases where a touch screen has been useful...but in those cases, it wasn't a touch screen on the camera. When I do macro photography, especially of tiny plants, close to the ground, I often have my camera mounted underneath my tripod. I flip the center post of my Gitzo Mountaineer around, attach the camera upside down, and drop it down low to the ground where I can get photos of things like mushrooms or other interesting forest floor flora...from the perspective of being on the forest floor. Having tried on many occasions, I can readily tell you that the live view screen is usually inaccessible or at the very best very difficult to access. My solution? Plug the camera into my Surface Pro, tether it with Canon's utilities, and use a REAL touch screen, a large touch screen, on a high resolution, 1080p device, to see what my camera is pointing at, adjust composition and focus, etc. For macro photography, I'd much rather have Canon invest some time and money improving their software with more controls, potentially the ability to fully control the camera, including focus, remotely via a tablet and a touch UI like that. It's such a radically superior experience. I also do the same thing for landscape photography. Getting accurate focus with a 10.6" screen is so much easier than on a 3.2" screen. It's like having a large format view camera with a huge 8x10 ground glass screen on the back...it's amazing.

So, sure, touch can be useful. I've never said it couldn't be. I am just saying...it's NOT how a professional or an avid enthusiast uses a DSLR. A pro or an enthusiast uses a DSLR the way a DSLR was DESIGNED to be used...rapidly, eye to the viewfinder, fingers on dials and buttons that instantaneously do what I need them to do without ever having to pull the camera away from my face and go touching my way through any kind of UI. In my world, graphical UIs are the clunky, intrusive, and slow means of giving me access to settings. Dials and buttons, on the other hand, are the cutting edge, giving me instantaneous access to things that I often need to change on a moment's notice, and things I don't want to have to pull my eye away from the viewfinder...and likely lose my subject when I do...to accomplish. Give me more dials and buttons, and I'll always find a way to use them. Ask any serious or professional bird or wildlife photographer, sports photographer, probably most any action photographer, and they will likely tell you the same thing. Why would anyone want to pull the camera away from their face to fiddle with a UI when they are actually doing photography?

It's a nice to have. It's the glossy polish. It pretties things up and makes them feel more modern. I'm not denying any of this. What I'm saying is, a touch UI is far from an essential necessity on a DSLR, particularly on a device meant for pros. (If we were talking about the EOS-M 3 or a Rebel, my stance would be 180 degrees on this.)

 

[Don Haines]

Who in the world, ESPECIALLY pros, want to pull the camera away from their face so they can fiddle with a clunky touch screen?

Well, how about pros (or amateurs) who shoot with the 600 EX RT? Or Pros or amateurs who want to change tracking sensitivity or accelerate/decelerate tracking? There are dozens of functions that cannot be adjusted with a camera glued to your face that would be much easier and quicker to accomplish with the swipe of a finger rather than having to work through buttons and joysticks.

People need to open their minds a bit and quit being such Luddites about technology (especially ironic on a forum filled with gearheads). No one has ever suggested that a touch screen would replace the buttons and joysticks, but it is proven technology that would add significant functionality and convenience to enthusiast and pro-level cameras.

+1

 

[jrista]

Who in the world, ESPECIALLY pros, want to pull the camera away from their face so they can fiddle with a clunky touch screen?

Well, how about pros (or amateurs) who shoot with the 600 EX RT? Or Pros or amateurs who want to change tracking sensitivity or accelerate/decelerate tracking? There are dozens of functions that cannot be adjusted with a camera glued to your face that would be much easier and quicker to accomplish with the swipe of a finger rather than having to work through buttons and joysticks.

People need to open their minds a bit and quit being such Luddites about technology (especially ironic on a forum filled with gearheads). No one has ever suggested that a touch screen would replace the buttons and joysticks, but it is proven technology that would add significant functionality and convenience to enthusiast and pro-level cameras.

+1

You guys are still totally missing the point. I'll keep it simple:

A touch UI is the very LAST thing Canon should be putting effort into for a professional grade DSLR. I don't disagree that it COULD be useful. However, before I wrote my post, I read several comments by people stating that lack of a touch UI was either extremely disappointing or a total deal killer. Personally, I find that to be LUDICROUS!! I mean, of ALL the things to get irate about...not having a touch UI is a deal killer???

This is Canon. This is the company that has taken shit for the last several years because they don't have sensor IQ as good as an Exmor. Where are all the people saying not having a 24mp APS-C sensor capable of 14 stops of DR is a deal killer? Oh, right, they are busy wasting their time complaining about the lack of a touch UI.

I know you guys all have your dreams about how useful a touch UI could be for some things. That's not my point. My point is...it is by far the least important thing Canon needs to focus on right now as far as the 7D II, or 5D IV, or 1D XI go. Canon needs to improve the things that matter every time you press the shutter button first. Sensor IQ. Metering (and maybe tying in a full high res RGB sensor into the AF system like the 1D X and a ton of Nikon cameras). The PDAF system itself. They can slap on a touch UI later. Hell, they could slap on a tough UI with a freakin firmware update. Touch UI shouldn't be the thing people are whining about being deal breakers...not on the 7D II, not on a professional grade DSLR.

That's my point.

 

[mb66energy]

[...]

Touch UI shouldn't be the thing people are whining about being deal breakers...not on the 7D II, not on a professional grade DSLR.

That's my point.

What is professional? For me the only difference between an amateur and a professional photographer is that the latter one makes money with photos.

Someone told me that the term "amateur" has its roots in "amare" ... to love. Who makes the better photos? The one who loves photography or the one who earns money with taking photos?
There is no definitive answer. It is not excluded that a good professional photographer CAN DO WHAT HE/SHE LOVES TO DO !

Now about the tools: I think both might need the same level of tools - you called it professional DSLR.
For me touch screens are an OPTION which makes setting the focus and exp. metering area very simple (on EOS M). This is very important for me to operate it one handed while securing myself with the other hand.

Let's try to come together: Your argument to add a touch screen optimized menu later via firmware update is a good one. But if the 7Dii has no touch screen, Canon omits that option from the start.
What about using the standard menu but activating direct access to the settings via touch screen without disabling the hardware controls to access the menu settings and change parameters? And a custom function which disables the touch screen for settings and/or image review ...

 

[kalieaire]

[quote author=unfocused]

This statement surprises me. Ignoring the Canon Cinema DSLRs, I always thought the 5D was supposed to be Canon's top video DSLR. When the 5DII came out it pretty much turned the video world on its head. I've seen a lot of professional videos shot with 5D's, not so many with 7D's. I'm not a video person, but even so, I'd like to know what is the basis for expecting the 7D to be Canon's best video product.[/quote]

The 5D2 was an experiment when they added video. The 5D2 should've had a better focus sensor first, which was what people were clamoring for since the first 5D release and fun things like Video Second. However, their big experiment paid off and thus came the 7D with more features meant for DSLR Video. It became a quick seller in the Wedding Cinema market, hence why sales have been amazing and why the run has lasted a full 4.5 years.

When the 5D2 initially came out, it didn't even support any standard cinema frame rates (it was initially 30fps not, 29.97 or 23.976 fps aka 24p) and required time-wasting conforming of footage to make it even useful, and in an industry that requires near same day delivery of content, the 5D2 was very immature. But the 7D with its 24p and 60i frame rates made it industry amazing.

To put things into perspective Canon messed up Autofocus with their Mark III 1-Series so bad that they never came out with a 1Ds Mark IV. It would have been so late to the market that the 1D-X ended up being released first.

The 5D came out in 2005, the 5D2 came out in 2008, 7D in 2009, 5D3 in 2012.

Currently it's 2014 and when the 7D2 comes out/gets announced, it'll be 5 years.

In that time other cameras in smaller form factors have features like 4K video (super useful even if you're editing for 1080p), tilting/foldout screen (immensely useful for event photographers), focus peaking (absolutely necessary in cinema), wifi (which is amazing for photographers or cinematographers who want to connect a wireless external monitor and enable remote capture or remote tethering), USB 3.0 (which could be used to capture raw footage or even tethered shooting), HDMI 1.4 which also allows for raw capture of footage, some other units even offer quad linked SDI for 4K raw capture.

I'm not sorry, but if Canon keeps putting out these lack luster offerings, they're only going to meet mediocre sales instead of being a class leader/innovator and end up cutting even more essential features that all their competitors have.

People are going to have their panties in a nit on whether the C500 is the "best" offering, but this doesn't really matter in this discussion since we're talking about DSLRs and talking about Canon's missed opportunities here. I don't really know what's going on in their r&d departments, but they're moving along at much slower than a snails pace. Look at their offering for the EVIL segment.

The EOS M totally missed the market in the USA. Even the EOS M2, with its dual pixel focusing, isn't going to hit the USA Markets. Canon is consistent though. The Execs are great at confusing "innovations" with features the market wants.

I'm really curious who here in this discussion actually uses their gear for the generation of money.

 

[tron]

The EOS M totally missed the market in the USA. Even the EOS M2, with its dual pixel focusing, isn't going to hit the USA Markets.

Where did you read that M2 has dual pixel focusing?

 

[candyman]

There is a lot of discussion about desired features - needed or not.
I assume that the marketing department of Canon is constantly checking the market for desired features of their customer base, feature development of competitors .....and so on.
That should mean that whatever features the 7D MKII will have at launch, it is based on the result of the market research and represent the desired features of the majority and must be able to compete. Not?
So if features are missing that some of you desire, maybe it represents features that are wished by the minority...not?
So that makes me curious what features really will be implemented....

 

[greger]

My 7D doesn't have WiFi. If you want to use an iPad to operate a camera that doesn't have WiFi buy a CamRanger or
one of the other devices that creates it's own WiFi Zone. I installed EOS Utility on my iPad Air and if I go into my wife's
70D's Menue and turn on WiFi shooting, then I can operate her 70D with my iPad. I feel Canon should include WiFi in
all of the new cameras. It's not a deal breaker for me. I am not ready to part with my 7D and upgrade yet. Maybe a FF
is my future camera. I look forward to new announcements. I just spent my 7Dll Money on my Car. I need it to go out
and about so I can take pics. ;D