A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information

[unfocused]

TBH, as far as the 7D is concerned, it's supposed to be Canon's best video product.

This statement surprises me. Ignoring the Canon Cinema DSLRs, I always thought the 5D was supposed to be Canon's top video DSLR. When the 5DII came out it pretty much turned the video world on its head. I've seen a lot of professional videos shot with 5D's, not so many with 7D's. I'm not a video person, but even so, I'd like to know what is the basis for expecting the 7D to be Canon's best video product.

No touch-screen? It's sort of nice. But it's really a gee-whiz feature. For people who like using point and shoots. I can change settings much faster and easier without it. And in sports, that's much more critical.

An articulating screen.. Now THAT could be useful in many ways...

Funny, I have just the opposite perspective. I doubt I would ever use a tilt screen, but I would love a touch screen that allows me to dig through the menu more quickly and intuitively. I wouldn't use it for simple shooting, but for special situations (changing focus tracking or setting RT flash settings, for example) I think I'd find having a touch screen very handy.

Oh, and yes, I think that people have gotten the message that full frame has, other things being equal, more potential for highest image quality. I am not arguing that point.

However, there are plenty of people who will buy a well-rounded action APS-C camera with excellent, but not "medium format killer", image quality. Please review the concept of a tool designed for a specific task. Action shooters want a specialized camera.. .

Exactly. A 7D II won't touch a 6D or 5D III for landscapes or as a wedding/event camera, but it can be a viable alternative to a 1D series camera for the wildlife/action/sport shooter--especially on a budget. $2000-2500 isn't inexpensive--but it's a good deal less than 5 or 6 grand!!!

Agreed. I watched Canon release the 5DIII targeted to a very specific audience (wedding/event photographers) while Nikon released its D800 without (in my opinion) adequately reviewing the market. Once the pent-up demand was satisfied, Nikon didn't have anywhere else to go. But, the 5DIII became a "must have" for wedding and event photographers and was still a very desirable camera for all-around users. The sales figures indicate that their strategy worked.

I know I sound like a broken record, but I see the same thing happening with the 7DII. Meet the needs of wildlife/action/sports shooters while offering a very attractive camera for higher-end enthusiasts. I still say, Canon wants us all to buy two bodies and I expect the 5DIII and the 7DII will be a nice combination.

(And one more reason why I really don't expect to see a 5DIV for at least another year.)

 

[rpt]

EOS 1 style top plate = no pop up flash ?

No mode dial? This is a deal breaker!

 

[rpt]

EOS-1 style top plate

No mode dial?

Darn it! You beat me to it!

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

EOS-1 style top plate

No mode dial?

I used to like mode dials, but after the locking ones came out, I hate them. I just can't push that lock button while twisting the dial.

Whatever improvements are made, will hint at the features in the next FF bodies next year.

We've been hearing rumors of much better color, which comes with layered sensors, and dual pixel with tracking, as in the recent patent, so much of this rings true.

 

[East Wind Photography]

EOS-1 style top plate

No mode dial?

Darn it! You beat me to it!

You cant get EOS1 style weather sealing with a mode dial. All buttons underneath a continuous rubber film will seal it from rain and gorilla pee. More to sway my decision toward this being closer to a 1DX than a 7D and hence a loftier price tag.

 

[MichaelHodges]

Lots of talk about features and nick-knacks and specs.

Show me the sensor. The rest doesn't matter to me if the sensor is weak.

 

[Policar]

TBH, as far as the 7D is concerned, it's supposed to be Canon's best video product.

Funny, I could have sworn it was the C500.

 

[East Wind Photography]

No wifi or touch screen? Bummer. All future canon prosumer cameras should have BOTH wifi and touch screens IMHO.

I never liked Canon's wifi implementation. I have had great success using an Eye-Fi card when I need that capability. I dont think that built in wifi would be a deal breaker since it can be added later.

Touch screens are very gimmickee on a camera. I've tried to get used to it on the M and while I can see that it makes sense for some things, I find it cumbersome to change settings and need to take my eye's off the subject and dink around with the camera. I prefer to change most of the important settings by feel or program the common ones into custom modes.

I would rather see them put the R&D dollars into better IQ and better AF capability than consumer features like touch screens and wifi that runs the battery down even faster.

 

[Etienne]

No touch-screen? It's sort of nice. But it's really a gee-whiz feature. For people who like using point and shoots. I can change settings much faster and easier without it. And in sports, that's much more critical.

An articulating screen.. Now THAT could be useful in many ways. Even for a pro. But it introduces a major weak point in the construction.. Not worth it for the .01% of the time I would use it.

I think the swivel screen issue is about weather-proofing. It probably happens, but I have yet to see or hear of a broken Canon DSLR swivel screen. There are other advantages to the swivel: you can leave it closed so that the screen is protected. Personally I'd like to see a pro-level body with a swivel screen. If it breaks I'll get it fixed.

 

[jrista]

No wifi or touch screen? Bummer. All future canon prosumer cameras should have BOTH wifi and touch screens IMHO.

Comments like this make me think people don't know how to use a DSLR. DSLRs are devices that you need to instantly change settings on. You need to be able to dial in exposure on a dime when the light changes. Who in the world, ESPECIALLY pros, want to pull the camera away from their face so they can fiddle with a clunky touch screen? It's sad how smartphone mentality is invading every other area of our lives...in many cases, a touch screen is the primitive configuration device, and all the "archaic old buttons and dials" are actually the vastly superior and far more reliable means of controlling and configuring something like a DSLR (or, for that matter, a remote control, an airplane cockpit, or a nuclear launch facility, or pretty much anything where the behavior of a given doodad has to be EXACT, fixed in behavior and place, reliable, hardened against rough activity, instantaneous, and immune to things like software bugs, viruses, etc.)

Touch screens on consumer devices make sense. Touch screens on professional grade devices designed for use by people who know how to train muscle and procedural memory, and prefer instantaneous access to many features of the camera without the need to look at anything, or remove their eye from the viewfinder...are quite frankly the most confusing "innovation" I can think of.

I'm not necessarily against adding a touch screen, but it is FAR from a dealbreaker if one is not included on the 7D II. Same goes for WiFi. It's not an essential...in the end, it does NOTHING for my photography. It's just a handy gizmo that MIGHT make data transfer from the camera to the computer easier. To me, the most critical, fundamental, hell foundational aspects of the 7D line of cameras are frame rate, AF system, metering and sensor. If those things don't add up to a significant upgrade, something like a two-generational update over the 7D I, then I'd be worried.

 

[unfocused]

Who in the world, ESPECIALLY pros, want to pull the camera away from their face so they can fiddle with a clunky touch screen?

Well, how about pros (or amateurs) who shoot with the 600 EX RT? Or Pros or amateurs who want to change tracking sensitivity or accelerate/decelerate tracking? There are dozens of functions that cannot be adjusted with a camera glued to your face that would be much easier and quicker to accomplish with the swipe of a finger rather than having to work through buttons and joysticks.

People need to open their minds a bit and quit being such Luddites about technology (especially ironic on a forum filled with gearheads). No one has ever suggested that a touch screen would replace the buttons and joysticks, but it is proven technology that would add significant functionality and convenience to enthusiast and pro-level cameras.

 

[chasinglight]

EOS-1 style top plate

No mode dial?

I agree with neuro. If "EOS-1 style top plate" meant no popup flash then they could/would have said "EOS-5 style top plate" or "EOS-6 style top plate" or "no popup flash". Instead it likely means "EOS-1 style top plate controls" which plays to the theory that is camera may be aimed more at the 1DIV market than the 7D market.

 

[Marauder]

TBH, as far as the 7D is concerned, it's supposed to be Canon's best video product.

This statement surprises me. Ignoring the Canon Cinema DSLRs, I always thought the 5D was supposed to be Canon's top video DSLR. When the 5DII came out it pretty much turned the video world on its head. I've seen a lot of professional videos shot with 5D's, not so many with 7D's. I'm not a video person, but even so, I'd like to know what is the basis for expecting the 7D to be Canon's best video product.

No touch-screen? It's sort of nice. But it's really a gee-whiz feature. For people who like using point and shoots. I can change settings much faster and easier without it. And in sports, that's much more critical.

An articulating screen.. Now THAT could be useful in many ways...

Funny, I have just the opposite perspective. I doubt I would ever use a tilt screen, but I would love a touch screen that allows me to dig through the menu more quickly and intuitively. I wouldn't use it for simple shooting, but for special situations (changing focus tracking or setting RT flash settings, for example) I think I'd find having a touch screen very handy.

Oh, and yes, I think that people have gotten the message that full frame has, other things being equal, more potential for highest image quality. I am not arguing that point.

However, there are plenty of people who will buy a well-rounded action APS-C camera with excellent, but not "medium format killer", image quality. Please review the concept of a tool designed for a specific task. Action shooters want a specialized camera.. .

Exactly. A 7D II won't touch a 6D or 5D III for landscapes or as a wedding/event camera, but it can be a viable alternative to a 1D series camera for the wildlife/action/sport shooter--especially on a budget. $2000-2500 isn't inexpensive--but it's a good deal less than 5 or 6 grand!!!

Agreed. I watched Canon release the 5DIII targeted to a very specific audience (wedding/event photographers) while Nikon released its D800 without (in my opinion) adequately reviewing the market. Once the pent-up demand was satisfied, Nikon didn't have anywhere else to go. But, the 5DIII became a "must have" for wedding and event photographers and was still a very desirable camera for all-around users. The sales figures indicate that their strategy worked.

I know I sound like a broken record, but I see the same thing happening with the 7DII. Meet the needs of wildlife/action/sports shooters while offering a very attractive camera for higher-end enthusiasts. I still say, Canon wants us all to buy two bodies and I expect the 5DIII and the 7DII will be a nice combination.

(And one more reason why I really don't expect to see a 5DIV for at least another year.)

Ah, yes a 5D III would be very nice---especially for those times when the light is inadequate for a cropped frame. Now that the prices are dropping it's come into my RADAR---but I want the 7D II more. Still, I just saw someone selling one on Kijiji for only $1590 Canadian--with box and only 3500 clicks. Sadly, it was at the far east end of Ontario, near the Quebec border---nearly a 6 hour drive, so no go. It didn't take long to disappear!!! *sigh*

 

[dtaylor]

What makes you think Canon (officially) said, "EOS-1 build quality"? Even if they did, 'EOS-1' is a generic statement, not a specific model designation. If this turns out to be a $3999 EOS 1D Mark V, it'll have build quality equivalent to the 1D X. If it's a 7D Mark II, it won't.

Canon's "equivalency" statements don't mean anything. They are purely for marketing and not worth discussing or arguing about. Since no one in this industry performs and publishes the results of standardized tests we really have no clue what manufacturer claims translate to in the real world.

If anyone with an engineering background has fully disassembled their 7D and 1DX they might have some input, but still wouldn't be able to tell you whether or not it matters without extensive stress testing.

Does "1N sealing" mean rain for 30, but "1DX sealing" means rain for 45m? Maybe it's 4 and 6 hours? Maybe it's a temperature difference? Only Canon's engineers know what, if any, real differences exist and under what conditions they become apparent.

Outside of a handful of water/shock resistant bodies intended for underwater use and therefore subject to standardized over pressure and drop tests, all we have are user reports. Based on those the 7D seems to be able to handle anything a sane photographer would throw at it, as well as punishment a not so sane photographer might throw at it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCT-YMgjm9k

 

[Lee Jay]

No wifi or touch screen? Bummer. All future canon prosumer cameras should have BOTH wifi and touch screens IMHO.

I never liked Canon's wifi implementation. I have had great success using an Eye-Fi card when I need that capability. I dont think that built in wifi would be a deal breaker since it can be added later.

Can you control the camera and use live view over an eyefi card? I have no interest whatsoever in downloading pictures over WiFi.

 

[Lee Jay]

Who in the world, ESPECIALLY pros, want to pull the camera away from their face so they can fiddle with a clunky touch screen?

Well, how about pros (or amateurs) who shoot with the 600 EX RT? Or Pros or amateurs who want to change tracking sensitivity or accelerate/decelerate tracking? There are dozens of functions that cannot be adjusted with a camera glued to your face that would be much easier and quicker to accomplish with the swipe of a finger rather than having to work through buttons and joysticks.

People need to open their minds a bit and quit being such Luddites about technology (especially ironic on a forum filled with gearheads). No one has ever suggested that a touch screen would replace the buttons and joysticks, but it is proven technology that would add significant functionality and convenience to enthusiast and pro-level cameras.

A touch screen is great when you aren't shooting stills. When you are, being able to change numerous things on the fly without removing the camera from your face is crucial to getting the shots.

I wouldn't mind a touch screen as long as tactile controls still exist and are well thought out and implemented

 

[dtaylor]

Multi layered sensor sounds tantalizing - perhaps a foveon style sensor but after thinking some time about it ... three layers of 20 MPix with a frame rate of 12 pictures per second or more, would need a Digic 9++ or similar.

Page 6 and no one seems to be talking about this until now???

An RGB sensor wouldn't necessarily require a ton of processing power. I would think readout off the sensor would be the problem, but once you have the data you don't have to demosiac it. So bandwidth and file size is the issue, not CPU power per se.

I'm surprised to see this on the list of what CR "knows." I've read else where that the 7D2 will not have a multilayer sensor. Time will tell.

I will be pleasantly surprised and eager to see sample files if the 7D2 does indeed have a multilayer sensor. Sigma always struggled at high ISO but Bayer sensors actually throw away a significant fraction of light that an RGB layered sensor should, in theory, capture. If Canon managed to solve whatever problem plagued Foveon at high ISO we may be looking at a very interesting sensor indeed. Foveon always overstated the improvement gained with multiple layers. But a multilayer sensor can resolve more detail for a given number of sensel sites, does not need an AA filter, and can handle some colors that Bayer struggles with.

I've been itching to get a Sony A7 but...I think I'm going to wait to see what Canon is doing here and what they're going to charge for it.

 

[dtaylor]

Dunno...the 1D X with dual DIGIC5+ gets 500MB/s data throughput in total. For Canon to jump from 500MB/s to 3.5GB/s in two years...seems far fetched to me.
...
So, if the camera isn't a measly 8mp APS-C sensor, then something else has to give. I could see Canon jumping from 500MB/s throughoput to ~1.5GB/s throughput. That seems more reasonable to me. In that case, I don't see DPAF being included, and the sensor megapixel count would probably be a little lower than 24mp.

Good points jrista.

If the sensor is RGB and takes full advantage of this in terms of IQ, then I think a lot of people would be fine even with 20 or 18 MP. That sounds backward from a marketing perspective, but this body will be marketed to people who know better then to just look at MP.

I'm guessing it's a Bayer sensor. But the rumors and the timing of the patent announcements do intrigue me.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

TBH, as far as the 7D is concerned, it's supposed to be Canon's best video product.

No, the 5D3 is.

No wifi or 4K is a huge deal breaker for me.

A good 4k sure would be nice.

Using the Panasonic GH4 with 4K, Focus Peaking, Wifi, flip out/touch screen, and a host of other very USEFUL features. I really can't take Canon seriously anymore with any of their offerings.

They did drop the ball with crippling, if it were not for ML they'd already have been packed up by many. ML RAW made the 5D3 pretty amazing though. But yeah they really need to put in the basic usability built-in though so you don't have to wait 8months to reasonably use a camera and even longer to get top IQ out of it.

 

[dtaylor]

I've tried and tried to demonstrate to everyone, through theory, math, and even some visual examples (of which I clearly need to do more) that an APS-C sized sensor will NEVER perform as well as a FF sensor (all else being equal).

If you mean across the entire ISO envelope, you are correct. If you mean at ISOs where noise is a solved problem...then we've already seen this in multiple sensor comparisons.

I do not expect a 7D2 to have high ISO IQ like a 5D3.

The question in my mind is...why the hell hasn't Canon already employed the technology they HAVE PATENTS FOR, and have had patents for for a while, in the 5D III, 1D X, and 6D?

Chip yields.