A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information

[PureClassA]

I am still wishing for a hybrid viewfinder. What I mean is a viewfinder that can be used for video... I guess only few people care.

I just dont see how it's possible. You have to lock the mirror up to shoot. Only way to do it is mirrorless.

 

[schmidtfilme]

I am still wishing for a hybrid viewfinder. What I mean is a viewfinder that can be used for video... I guess only few people care.

I just dont see how it's possible. You have to lock the mirror up to shoot. Only way to do it is mirrorless.

Right, you would need an OLED screen mounted in a way that if turned on when the mirror is away it could get its light through the viewfinder. I should try to patent this idea.

Btw - all the people saying the photography portion cannot be improved. I disagree. I think the dynamic range could still get an improvement. You know dark areas and bright sky. Way to go in this regard.

 

[raptor3x]

I think your premise here is that the Nikon has the lens mount fitted to the outer shell

Not quite. The nikon mount seems to be connected directly to the internal magnesium chassis, while the Canon mount is connected directly to the composite mirrorbox which is then connected to the stainless steel chassis. Neither are directly connected to the outer shell, although my suspicion is that the outer shell on the Canon is giving some structural support to the lens mount based on the lip from the lens mount that sits flush against the magnesium shell.

whereas the Canon has it fitted to the internal chassis. I bet there is a reason for Canon to fix it to the chassis, possibly accuracy, after all the sensor is fitted to the chassis, not the outer shell. I would very much doubt that a D800 is built 'internally' to the same standard as a 4D, and my experience with the Nikon 'prosumer' grade of camera is that they are not inherently built to the same standard as the equivalent Canon, in fact I'm fairy convinced they are a cheaper unit, and the mount affixed directly to the chassis may be part of this.

Whether it's better or worse is really something that only their structural engineers can really tell you, as there can be very real advantages to composite parts (precision, toughness, thermal stability) other than manufacturing cost. As for them not being up to the same standard, I can believe that the internal sealing is probably superior on the more expensive bodies I'm not sure that the internal construction methods used will be all that different on the Nikon side. On the Canon side, the 1D bodies look similar to the D800 internally so an increase in build quality for the 7D would probably involve using a more unibody like construction for the internal chassis and/or better weather sealing.

 

[raptor3x]

Not a lie, but it's showing the magnesium shell. That shell is attached to a composite/stainless steel skeleton whereas the Nikon has a magnesium skeleton throughout. The lens mount, for example, is mounted to the composite mirror box. My suspicion is that the shell is largely structural, especially around the mount area as there's a lip on the lens mount that mates with the magnesium shell, but I don't have any good way to demonstrate that without taking my 5D3 apart. If you read Roger's article you can see how it's all put together.

Roger doesn't seem to say anything about it, that I can tell. A reader comment suggested the mirror box was composite, Roger indicated the circuit boards were screwed into composite, but there could be metal under it. The words 'magnesium' or 'steel' aren't used on the blog page.

It's interesting that the Canon mag-alloy frames seem more tightly constructed, using fewer pieces (at least, that's how it appears).

In other images of the 5DIII chassis, the 'mag allow shell over steel skeleton' isn't apparent, although it does seem the 5DIII's bottom plate may be steel (it's a different finish than the rest of the frame, at any rate).

So, I'm still not sure where you're getting this information... ???

That's coming from the 5D service manual.

 

[PureClassA]

I am still wishing for a hybrid viewfinder. What I mean is a viewfinder that can be used for video... I guess only few people care.

I just dont see how it's possible. You have to lock the mirror up to shoot. Only way to do it is mirrorless.

Right, you would need an OLED screen mounted in a way that if turned on when the mirror is away it could get its light through the viewfinder. I should try to patent this idea.

Btw - all the people saying the photography portion cannot be improved. I disagree. I think the dynamic range could still get an improvement. You know dark areas and bright sky. Way to go in this regard.

Million Dollar Idea And I agree, there can always be improvement. If there was no improvement on 20 something MP, then no one would buy the Nikon 800 and 810. If this delivers a 1DX type performance package in a crop, it's a big win. Regardless, it still wont replace a full frame, nor is it meant to. The closer this $2000 7DX is to the 1DX the further away the NEXT 1DX (mark II?) will be to its current model, which would be even better.

Also why I surmise if/when this all pans out as we are posturing that we will soon after see a not so insignificant price drop in the 1DX itself in anticipation of the real bad boy Canon is holding its engineers at the business end of Katana to keep quiet about.

 

[Sporgon]

although it does seem the 5DIII's bottom plate may be steel (it's a different finish than the rest of the frame, at any rate).

The 5DIII's bottom plate is stainless steel. This is precisely the sort of hidden quality touch you have from Canon. ( Look at the bottom of cameras that have had extensive pro use from guys who really just treat their gear as a tool and probably haven't paid for it themselves). Stainless steel will be much more expensive to mould and fit than an alloy. Judging by the rumours I guess the 7DII may have one too.

 

[Don Haines]

haven't read the whole topic, just few first pages, but are you people really believing this rumour? its a rumour, yet you are treating it as a fact.

"We’re getting little bits of information, and what we’re getting is going to be true."

I also believe in Santa Claus

 

[mb66energy]

I think your premise here is that the Nikon has the lens mount fitted to the outer shell

Not quite. The nikon mount seems to be connected directly to the internal magnesium chassis, while the Canon mount is connected directly to the composite mirrorbox which is then connected to the stainless steel chassis. Neither are directly connected to the outer shell, although my suspicion is that the outer shell on the Canon is giving some structural support to the lens mount based on the lip from the lens mount that sits flush against the magnesium shell.

whereas the Canon has it fitted to the internal chassis. I bet there is a reason for Canon to fix it to the chassis, possibly accuracy, after all the sensor is fitted to the chassis, not the outer shell. I would very much doubt that a D800 is built 'internally' to the same standard as a 4D, and my experience with the Nikon 'prosumer' grade of camera is that they are not inherently built to the same standard as the equivalent Canon, in fact I'm fairy convinced they are a cheaper unit, and the mount affixed directly to the chassis may be part of this.

Whether it's better or worse is really something that only their structural engineers can really tell you, as there can be very real advantages to composite parts (precision, toughness, thermal stability) other than manufacturing cost. As for them not being up to the same standard, I can believe that the internal sealing is probably superior on the more expensive bodies I'm not sure that the internal construction methods used will be all that different on the Nikon side. On the Canon side, the 1D bodies look similar to the D800 internally so an increase in build quality for the 7D would probably involve using a more unibody like construction for the internal chassis and/or better weather sealing.

According to the german brochure of EOS 5D Mark III
( www.brochures.canon-europe.com/getFile.php?productid=8594&languageid=6 page 18):
WARNING: german -> english (hopefully) made by a non-native speaker

"Gehäuseoberseite, Rück- und Frontabdeckung
der EOS 5D Mark III sind aus
einer robusten und leichten Magnesium-
legierung gefertigt."
=> Top plate, back plate and front part of the EOS 5D Mark IIIare made from a robust and light magnesium alloy.

"Die Stahl-Bodenplatte
der Kamera wurde für den harten Alltag
des Profis ausgelegt."
=> The bottom plate (?) made of steel is optimized for professional use.

"Innen wird ein Aluminiumchassis
von geformten Kunststoffelementen
geschützt – das schafft ein sicheres
Gefühl von Zuverlässigkeit."
=> Inside an aluminum chassis is protected by moulded elements made from
plastic - this gives a feeling of reliability.
I think your conclusions are right, that the EF mount is mounted via a plastic (of high quality) to the inner frame - just change from steel to aluminum for the inner frame. As I remember the EOS 20D has a steel frame - perhaps steel applies to the 5D mark I ?



The second red part of your comment:
WARNING: I am no engineer just a physicist. But basically you are right: Putting the mount, the outer shell and the inner frame with the CMOS sensor together has a strong disadvantage. Each hit against lens or shell accelerates the sensor and AF components directly and transports horrible forces.
A interlayer of plastics which are deformed temporarily decreases acceleration by e.g. a factor of 10 and reduces the forces on components by the same factor.

The plastic components are made from polycarbonate (PC is the acronym which is visible in one of the photos) which is used for bullet proof windows or CD ROMs where high strength and "form stability" is essential. I just would not have problems with a well made PC shell - it absorbs more energy than a magnesium alloy shell during a hit ...

 

[raptor3x]

"Innen wird ein Aluminiumchassis
von geformten Kunststoffelementen
geschützt – das schafft ein sicheres
Gefühl von Zuverlässigkeit."

Inside an aluminum chassis is protected by moulded elements made from
plastic - this gives a feeling of reliability.
I think your conclusions are right, that the EF mount is mounted via a plastic (of high quality) to the inner frame - just change from steel to aluminum for the inner frame. As I remember the EOS 20D has a steel frame - perhaps steel applies to the 5D mark I ?

Great find! And yes, the only camera that I have a service manual for is the original 5D, so I'm not surprised that there are minor changes but that the fundamental construction is the same.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

haven't read the whole topic, just few first pages, but are you people really believing this rumour? its a rumour, yet you are treating it as a fact.

"We’re getting little bits of information, and what we’re getting is going to be true."

I also believe in Santa Claus

Well CR guy would be a bit of a fool to put in that statement though would he not?
He claims these are 100% so what happens in a few weeks when they are all wrong, site's credibility is finally totally blown, that would mean he had nothing at all this time plus claimed a bunch of fake stuff was 100%.
So I will believe in Santa Claus.

 

[dstppy]

I'm gonna stab a guess and say it's going to be $2799 MSRP

Followed by 8-10 threads of "7Dmk2 or 5Dmk3, help me decide!"

Fllowed by 8-10 threads "why is the 7D mk2 so expensive?" ;D

If it doesn't street for close to $2000, I think it's a wounded duck for Canon sales. If Canon does try to pop early adopters over $2500, I dont think it lasts very long. They need to have this puppy moving by Black Friday. $1999 street prices.

The 5Dmk3 was PROOF they can do exactly that, providing the camera is THAT GOOD.

Don't get me wrong, I think $2800 is too high, I just won't be surprised to see it. Took me 2 years to pick up my 5dMk3, but that's because it was only worth $2500 to me.

If the 7Dmk2 is a lightning fast, crop version of the 5dMK3 as we're speculating, they can set any price below the cost of a new 5dmk3 and people will pay it up front.

If you can hold out 1-2 years (which, if price matters, it's not that hard), then we can snag it for a more reasonable price.

 

[rrcphoto]

I am still wishing for a hybrid viewfinder. What I mean is a viewfinder that can be used for video... I guess only few people care.

I just dont see how it's possible. You have to lock the mirror up to shoot. Only way to do it is mirrorless.

canon has an EVF that goes on the hotshoe - i'd be surprised if you can't use it on the new 7D.

 

[Marauder]

haven't read the whole topic, just few first pages, but are you people really believing this rumour? its a rumour, yet you are treating it as a fact.

"We’re getting little bits of information, and what we’re getting is going to be true."

I also believe in Santa Claus

Yeah, well--who doesn't?! 8)

But I concur, that bit about "and what we're getting is going to be true" tends to make this rumour likely to pan out. There's no CR#, which is odd, but it sounds like what they've given us has been verified by a trusted source.

More to the point, it gels with previous rumours:

The sensor has long been rumoured to be a 24 megapixel.
The primary target market is the wildlife/action/sports shooter.
The FPS will be high (initially stated to be 10 fps, but later rumours did up it to 12).
There was a rumour some time ago that the sensor would introduce brand-new cutting edge technology.
The AF system has always been rumoured to be very advanced and aimed at AI Servo use with a high degree of accuracy, in fitting with the camera's principal target market.

About the only aspects of this rumour that seem a bit "left field" are the lack of wifi and touch screen. Interestingly, none of the previous rumours seemed to touch on either of those features. I think we all just "assumed" that such a high profile and feature laden camera would just "come" with those features as a matter of default. Not that their absence is a huge negative for me, given I've never used wifi in a camera it's not a part of my workflow, and ditto the touch screen. Just surprised me that they may not include them--not a deal breaker for me as a wildlife photographer (although wifi controlling a camera aimed at a nest would be a cool use!), but it's clearly a huge disappointment for the video crowd and they could potentially be a significant segment of the purchasing base.

Nonetheless, colour me impressed. All the features on my own wish list (superb AF and burst rate in a well built body) are being met, if these specs are accurate--and I suspect they are. Still waiting to see what the new AF system is all about and what the buffer-size will be, but I don't expect to be disappointed. Quite the opposite--I think this camera is going to ROCK!!!!

 

[Lee Jay]

I'm gonna stab a guess and say it's going to be $2799 MSRP

Followed by 8-10 threads of "7Dmk2 or 5Dmk3, help me decide!"

Fllowed by 8-10 threads "why is the 7D mk2 so expensive?" ;D

If it doesn't street for close to $2000, I think it's a wounded duck for Canon sales. If Canon does try to pop early adopters over $2500, I dont think it lasts very long. They need to have this puppy moving by Black Friday. $1999 street prices.

And....we have a winner!

 

[Marauder]

I'll be waiting on this one, not because of specs, but because my finances dictate that I won't be replacing my 7D until early 2016. I should be up to 110K exposures by then, which seems like a good point to make it may backup body. Who knows, maybe by that time Canon will have come out with a 50MP camera with a built in coffeemaker and a unicorn for $500. ;D
In any event, it looks like I will have to have plenty of napkins on hand to wipe away the drool for the next 18 months.

Built in coffeemaker AND a unicorn! Bet it also makes rainbow flavoured popcorn! Sign me up! LOL :

If it comes with a unicorn OR rainbow flavored popcorn, I would be ready to pay up to 3500$. Otherwise, I'll stick to my 60D.

and then a thread will start about how Canon's rainbow popcorn does not have the same DR as Nikon rainbow popcorn and another thread about how it does not match the Adobe colourspace...

Mmmmmmmmmmm Rainbow popcorn DRivel! Can't wait! Er....wait....yes I can! LOL

 

[Lee Jay]

Regardless, I expect Canon to drain my bank account just like they always do. Something they are very very good at!

You think?

I'm still using my 10-year-old and 9-year-old Canon dSLRs because none of the updates since have been particularly interesting. I have several friends with Canon dSLRs, and they are similar. One is still using his 40D, one is still using his Rebel XT, one is still using his T3i. I'm still using a 20D, 5D and a T2i at work. I've watched every Canon release carefully in the last 10+ years.

Depends on what you shoot. For those of us that shoot sports, wildlife, other fast action, then we would be missing out on a VASTLY improved AF system in the likes of 1DX and 5D3.

I shoot primarily fast-action.

And you stuck with 20D, Xti and 5D???

Just the 20D and 5D. The Rebel is for work, which is not fast action.

 

[Lee Jay]

I am still wishing for a hybrid viewfinder. What I mean is a viewfinder that can be used for video... I guess only few people care.

I do.

 

[RunAndGun]

I am still wishing for a hybrid viewfinder. What I mean is a viewfinder that can be used for video... I guess only few people care.

I just dont see how it's possible. You have to lock the mirror up to shoot. Only way to do it is mirrorless.

Right, you would need an OLED screen mounted in a way that if turned on when the mirror is away it could get its light through the viewfinder. I should try to patent this idea.

Btw - all the people saying the photography portion cannot be improved. I disagree. I think the dynamic range could still get an improvement. You know dark areas and bright sky. Way to go in this regard.

Why would it need to get light through the viewfinder? OLED panels are self illuminating. They don't require a backlight source like an LCD panel.

But anyway… I would like to see high quality EVF's on DSLR's. The optical VF's on still cams, even on 5D series and 1D series cameras, are almost microscopic in comparison to what I'm used to on the motion side. I believe my color LCD EVF's on on my VariCam's are 3" panels and the Alphatron on my C300 is 3.5". And the newer OLED EVF's(like on the Sony F/5 and 55 and Panny's new VariCam and the new Zacuto Graticle) could be adapted to stills use(they are less than 1" and are more highly magnified than the larger LCD's and still beautiful) and make everyones life much easier and better. They could even be articulated like we have on the motion side so you wouldn't need an angle finder or have to use the rear panel. Yes, you would have to have power to look through it, but if you haven't used a quality EVF, you don't know what you're missing. I've had 5 series still cams(ii & iii) for almost six years and been shooting TV with EVF's for over 17. I'll take a high quality EVF any day of the week(especially the newer color flat panel tech over our old 1.5"-2" B&W tubes) when I actually need to see and focus(remember, we're focusing everything manually).

 

[unfocused]

haven't read the whole topic, just few first pages, but are you people really believing this rumour? its a rumour, yet you are treating it as a fact.

"We’re getting little bits of information, and what we’re getting is going to be true."

I also believe in Santa Claus

Yeah, well--who doesn't?! 8)

But I concur, that bit about "and what we're getting is going to be true" tends to make this rumour likely to pan out. There's no CR#, which is odd, but it sounds like what they've given us has been verified by a trusted source.

More to the point, it gels with previous rumours...

...Nonetheless, colour me impressed. All the features on my own wish list (superb AF and burst rate in a well built body) are being met, if these specs are accurate--and I suspect they are...I don't expect to be disappointed. Quite the opposite--I think this camera is going to ROCK!!!!

I'm guessing that for a large segment the deal maker/breaker is going to be the sensor. And, we really don't have anything close to a reliable rumor on that yet.

Instead, there are some crazy-high expectations floating around and there is a segment of the internet population that is expecting a sensor that defies physics. When that doesn't materialize there will be much whining and gnashing of teeth.

I personally would be very surprised if some major breakthrough in sensor technology is incorporated in the 7DII. In part, because I'm not sure that such a breakthrough technology is even possible. I'm expecting a 24mp sensor with some incremental improvements that place it a little higher on the scale to the 70D sensor. But, I'm not expecting a miracle.

 

[RGomezPhotos]

Super!

Basically a mini-1DX. For those who can't afford the big boy. Great specs especially if it has the high frame rate. It might even be better at color reproduction than the 1DX due to the new sensor.

I'm digging the specs and the more pro-oriented mindset of the camera. A 1D-styled top-plate? Excellent. What serious photographer needs a Mode Dial knob? With it's beefier construction, I think this is going to be a great camera for sports and wildlife photographers. If I was one of these types of photographers and not yet a full-time professional, this camera would definitely be on my list. Exciting!

Dual memory card slots would be nice. But I don't think it's going to happen. Not having WiFi in the camera I bet was done for marketing reasons. It's not going to come in a 1D body. Too expensive.

I think the introductory price of the camera is going to be around $2700 with the street price eventually sinking to about $2200. Which I think is going to be a bargain as you're getting 80-90% of the 1DX performance and capabilities.