A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
- Thread starter Canon Rumors
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cosmopotter said:
+1 I think a lot of the "Canon wouldn't do this or that" or "Canon wouldn't undermine their top of the line, or full frame camera" talk ignores the fact that "lesser" models introduce new tech all the time. The 7D AF system is getting a little long in the tooth now, but it blew away the 5D II AF system when it came out. The 45 point AF system that (in various formats) dominated the 1 series from the film 1v right through to the 1D IV was actually introduced on the EOS 3. At the time, the top of the line EOS 1n film camera only had a 5 point AF system! And it would be two more years before the EOS 1v would bring the 45 point AF system to the 1 line!!!
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Marauder said:
Yes and that was the first thing I thought of when it said no touch screen. I don't actually buy that rumor to be honest.
I think at this point a lot of the features that woud improve video would also improve stills capability. DPAF is handy not just for video but also for stills when shooting liveview. Higher dynamic range benefits everyone. 4K video with a less compresed or more efficient 10bit 4:2:2 or better codec would be beneficial to sports/wildlife shooters who are ok with 8MP stills, especially if they can shoot at 24 or 30fps. A hybrid OVF/EVF or even just a high quality EVF would beneficial to both for having a full 100% viewfinder and the ability to see your images in playback even in the bright sun. Focus peaking, like DPAF is useful for video and stills in LV mode.
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Marauder said:
Let's not forget the 6D in this conversation too. I have been trying to talk myself into getting a 6D body to accompany my 70D but I can't do it. The AF on the 6D seems so antiquated compared with my 70D. Other than the dual pixel function, the 70D has the same still picture focus as the 7D (19 cross type). Why didn't the 6D at least have the same as the 7D? A classic case of dumbing it down to fit the marketing model. I'm sure Canon thought that If the AF function was too good it would cannibalize 5D3 sales but I don't think so. I simply can't afford a 5D3 so why not make the 6D the best entry level FF they can make it with a few upgrades. I think the 6D could benefit from a makeover even though it's only 2 years old.
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unfocused
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First, I think the speculation placing the cost of the 7DII into 5DIII territory is highly unlikely. If that were to be the case, the 7DII would be targeted to a much different (and much smaller) market than than the original 7D.
Generally, though, the specs confirm what I was expecting: a top of the line APS-C camera that sets industry standards, coupled with features that are targeted to very specific users. Just as the 5DIII was clearly targeted to wedding and event photographers with its low-light capabilities, Canon seems to be targeting the 7DII to sports and wildlife photographers.
That doesn't mean it won't be a great all-around camera (just as the 5DIII is), it just means that Canon seems to like to focus on a particular buyer base in order to assure that their upper end cameras have a clear market. If done right, this could be a must-have for sports and wildlife photographers. (Which, while not nearly as large of a professional base as wedding photographers, does have a large contingent of amateur users with high disposable income.)
I tend to agree with Neuro that the "1D build quality" may not mean what some people think it does. It might exceed the 5DIII, but I just don't think there is enough of a market for a $3,000 APS-C camera to justify the kind of bombproof construction the 1D series is noted for. (Unless of course, I'm seriously overestimating the cost of producing 1DX build quality – perhaps it's not as much of a cost factor as I think, given modern production technology.)
The lack of touch screen (if true) tells me that this is not a video-oriented camera. Perhaps Canon's market research shows that videographers don't buy 7Ds. Personally, I'm a bit disappointed because a good touch screen system would certainly be preferable when trying to navigate Canon's convoluted and increasingly complex menu systems. I can only imagine that, if true, it was because they did not feel comfortable with the durability of the touch screen system.
Personally, I'm not sure why you would use dual-pixel technology without a touch-screen, but then I've never been that hopped up on dual-pixels anyway.
Regardless. This will be an interesting release and I will enjoy the build-up over the coming weeks.
Generally, though, the specs confirm what I was expecting: a top of the line APS-C camera that sets industry standards, coupled with features that are targeted to very specific users. Just as the 5DIII was clearly targeted to wedding and event photographers with its low-light capabilities, Canon seems to be targeting the 7DII to sports and wildlife photographers.
That doesn't mean it won't be a great all-around camera (just as the 5DIII is), it just means that Canon seems to like to focus on a particular buyer base in order to assure that their upper end cameras have a clear market. If done right, this could be a must-have for sports and wildlife photographers. (Which, while not nearly as large of a professional base as wedding photographers, does have a large contingent of amateur users with high disposable income.)
I tend to agree with Neuro that the "1D build quality" may not mean what some people think it does. It might exceed the 5DIII, but I just don't think there is enough of a market for a $3,000 APS-C camera to justify the kind of bombproof construction the 1D series is noted for. (Unless of course, I'm seriously overestimating the cost of producing 1DX build quality – perhaps it's not as much of a cost factor as I think, given modern production technology.)
The lack of touch screen (if true) tells me that this is not a video-oriented camera. Perhaps Canon's market research shows that videographers don't buy 7Ds. Personally, I'm a bit disappointed because a good touch screen system would certainly be preferable when trying to navigate Canon's convoluted and increasingly complex menu systems. I can only imagine that, if true, it was because they did not feel comfortable with the durability of the touch screen system.
Personally, I'm not sure why you would use dual-pixel technology without a touch-screen, but then I've never been that hopped up on dual-pixels anyway.
Regardless. This will be an interesting release and I will enjoy the build-up over the coming weeks.
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I'm also with the ones that would regret not having wifi, I'm now using my iPhone to tether the 6D and even if it's maybe 1% of my shots, those wouldn't have been possible otherwise, except with a huge amount of trial and errors. It would really be a step back IMHO.
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unfocused said:
The Nikon D800 (and I think D300s) have the same internal build quality as the 1D/D4 type cameras, aside from the improved sealing. I doubt that it adds all that much to the production cost.
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raptor3x said:
neuroanatomist said:
But perhaps gave credence to the Japanese belief
I think it will be interesting to see how the combination of specification and price shed light on how confident Canon are with the FF premium.
I still think the RRP will be the same as, or notionally lower than the 6D, with a camera that is as well spec'd to day as the 7D was for its day. Didn't Canon introduce the now ubiquitous 18mp sensor in the 7D. Maybe they will use this model to introduce another sensor that five years time will make it to the cheapest dslr.
Just a thought; was the Sony Exmor first implemented as a APS size sensor ?
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For the sake of personal experience I own both a 7D and a 6D. I love both for their respective uses. My 7D crop is great with my 70-200 IS II for daylight sports at low to mid ISOs. Beyond 800 the 7D gets noisy unless you really push a stop or so. The 6D is fabulous for portraiture. I don't really give a damn that it only has a single cross-type AF point and only 10 others. I can focus and recompose as needed, even with tight 1.4 apertures on my Sigma ARt 35 and 50mm lenses. Takes some getting used to. Would I rather have 19 on the 6D with all cross type? Sure. Do I think Canon could have done this easily for an extra 100-200 bucks. Yeah. But I'm not complaining too much.
I'm anxious for the 7DX (my guess at the title, because I like hoe Canon named the compact G1X). I'm hoping this means that all their flagship models in each of the three main lines will carry that X brand. Compact. APS-C. Full Frame. So Canon 7DX is my guess.
The Wifi on the 6D is not all that great. I never use GPS. I won't miss it on the 7DX. Better video with a more "Magic Lantern" type control built in would be great though.
Price points at over 3k?! Suicide. Abject suicide. Who is going to buy a crop priced the same a 5D3? The crop factor itself is useful, sure, but the market would be so small Canon would almost certainly lose money long term. I think we will see a $2200 7DX street price. I can see a top level crop competing with an "entry" Full Frame (6D) but no way an upper level one. Canon needs to knock this out the park and in 2015 bring out the 1DX II at $6500 again.
I'm anxious for the 7DX (my guess at the title, because I like hoe Canon named the compact G1X). I'm hoping this means that all their flagship models in each of the three main lines will carry that X brand. Compact. APS-C. Full Frame. So Canon 7DX is my guess.
The Wifi on the 6D is not all that great. I never use GPS. I won't miss it on the 7DX. Better video with a more "Magic Lantern" type control built in would be great though.
Price points at over 3k?! Suicide. Abject suicide. Who is going to buy a crop priced the same a 5D3? The crop factor itself is useful, sure, but the market would be so small Canon would almost certainly lose money long term. I think we will see a $2200 7DX street price. I can see a top level crop competing with an "entry" Full Frame (6D) but no way an upper level one. Canon needs to knock this out the park and in 2015 bring out the 1DX II at $6500 again.
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"Serious" videographers should not clamor for freaking video-optimized crap in stills cameras, especially not in DSLRS with a mirror in the lightpath. They should go buy a panasonic GH4 if they are poor or a Sony A7S if they want "full frame/shallow DOF" or a canon C-something if they want a video-optimized camera or if they really dont mind the mirror and want FF plus 4k, then a canon EOS 1D-C ... if they are not so poor. An APS-C DSLR is by its very nature the least suitable video-recording device. So stay away from it.
I hope the 7D successor comes without any video-recording capabilities whatsoever. A lean and mean STILLS machine.
I hope the 7D successor comes without any video-recording capabilities whatsoever. A lean and mean STILLS machine.
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PureClassA said:
That makes sense. Calling it 7DX is my guess, too -- especially with all the comparisons to 1D (top plate, build quality, etc.).
PureClassA said:
Agreed. Everyone was bracing themselves for a 70D price that was high, but we were all pleasantly surprised when it was released with MSRP of $1,199. I picked mine up for $1,049 just a couple months later. The price even dropped to around $949-999 during the holidays. My guess for the 7DX is $2,199. That's a huge leap over the 70D but not so much that it would compete with the 5DIII.
Oh, and I'm anxious to find out about the new sensor!
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AvTvM said:
Video won't make or break it for me. I agree with you. But I know a lot of folks who want video features nowadays. It's the prosumer who wants a nice still camera but with a video capability at least better than a Handycam with a much nicer lineup of great glass to strap to it
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Yeah, never understood why people expected a 70D to have some stratosperic price. It was never intended to replace a 7D. It was more to replace the 60D. The 70D needed to be that price to compete directly with the Nikon 7100.
So far as the 7D goes, I don't think it will be a 10X. I think Canon sticks with it's single digit nomenclature since it's meant to be held aloft with their high end models. Hence 7DX
So far as the 7D goes, I don't think it will be a 10X. I think Canon sticks with it's single digit nomenclature since it's meant to be held aloft with their high end models. Hence 7DX
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Multi layered sensor sounds tantalizing - perhaps a foveon style sensor but after thinking some time about it ... three layers of 20 MPix with a frame rate of 12 pictures per second or more, would need a Digic 9++ or similar.
What about a multi layer sensor which increases full well capacity allowing for higher dynamic range? I am not shure if it is hardly needed to go above 11 or 12 EV dynamic range. But with the increasing availability of larger OLED displays we will see display solutions which have 14 or 16 bit (EV) dynamic range. If the coming beast will last 5 years in the market (like the current 7D) it might be a good idea to make it future proof.
What about a multi layer sensor which increases full well capacity allowing for higher dynamic range? I am not shure if it is hardly needed to go above 11 or 12 EV dynamic range. But with the increasing availability of larger OLED displays we will see display solutions which have 14 or 16 bit (EV) dynamic range. If the coming beast will last 5 years in the market (like the current 7D) it might be a good idea to make it future proof.
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