Analysis of RAW samples at Fred Miranda show weak DR

[SecureGSM]

Re: DRpocalypse 2017

Neuro, I was following that demonstration on DPR with a great interest and was genuinely interested to use the same technique to improve my photography skills but I misplaced my lens cap at the time and that unfortunate event sidetracked me on the path of mastering my lens cap photography for a while. Subsequently, Canon came out with high DR sensor in 5D IV and that saw me losing any interest in the mastering of lens cap shooting techique and focusing on my handholding technique for the images taken with 15 seconds and longer exposures instead. this did not work well for me so far but I am optimistic to master this technique by the time the new 6D III with an integrated tripod is out and available in Australia. ;D

In the Canon page for the 6D2 they state, "the EOS 6D Mark II’s sensor captures images of 6240 x 4160 pixels with a pixel size of 5.67 µm square for outstanding detail and a superb signal-to-noise ratio, resulting in great images."

Seems you've missed the demonstrations posted here and especially on DPR, which unequivocally show that 'great images' require at least 12.8 stops of DR and >4 stops of shadow lifting capability. Clearly, Canon is lying.

 

[unfocused]

Re: DRpocalypse 2017

In the Canon page for the 6D2 they state, "the EOS 6D Mark II’s sensor captures images of 6240 x 4160 pixels with a pixel size of 5.67 µm square for outstanding detail and a superb signal-to-noise ratio, resulting in great images."

Seems you've missed the demonstrations posted here and especially on DPR, which unequivocally show that 'great images' require at least 12.8 stops of DR and >4 stops of shadow lifting capability. Clearly, Canon is lying.

Give the DPR bashing a rest. They've played no role in this other than quoting a Canon executive. This obsession over DPR is childish and embarrassing. Time to move on.

 

[Orangutan]

Re: DRpocalypse 2017

In the Canon page for the 6D2 they state, "the EOS 6D Mark II’s sensor captures images of 6240 x 4160 pixels with a pixel size of 5.67 µm square for outstanding detail and a superb signal-to-noise ratio, resulting in great images."

Seems you've missed the demonstrations posted here and especially on DPR, which unequivocally show that 'great images' require at least 12.8 stops of DR and >4 stops of shadow lifting capability. Clearly, Canon is lying.

Give the DPR bashing a rest. They've played no role in this other than quoting a Canon executive. This obsession over DPR is childish and embarrassing. Time to move on.

If they repeat their nonsense then the critique also warrants repeating. You are correct, though, it doesn't need to go on forever.

 

[Jopa]

Speaking of release, rep from B&H said the release will be delayed a few days.

Jusr came from the store.

We all know why. They realized the cameras are shipped with wrong sensors.
B&H actually got the cameras, but now some dude with a screwdriver is replacing sensors at their warehouse. Most likely he'll have to work on Sabbath as well.

 

[SecureGSM]

Oy vey!

Speaking of release, rep from B&H said the release will be delayed a few days.

Jusr came from the store.

We all know why. They realized the cameras are shipped with wrong sensors.
B&H actually got the cameras, but now some dude with a screwdriver is replacing sensors at their warehouse. Most likely he'll have to work on Sabbath as well.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Re: DRpocalypse 2017

In the Canon page for the 6D2 they state, "the EOS 6D Mark II’s sensor captures images of 6240 x 4160 pixels with a pixel size of 5.67 µm square for outstanding detail and a superb signal-to-noise ratio, resulting in great images."

Seems you've missed the demonstrations posted here and especially on DPR, which unequivocally show that 'great images' require at least 12.8 stops of DR and >4 stops of shadow lifting capability. Clearly, Canon is lying.

Give the DPR bashing a rest. They've played no role in this other than quoting a Canon executive. This obsession over DPR is childish and embarrassing. Time to move on.

Gee, I'm sorry. Should I have indicated that I was also referring to their forums, where no doubt Mikael is still hanging out? Probably wouldn't have mattered. Regardless, thanks for your advice. I'll take it under advisement.
.
.
.
.
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Ok, I've thought about it. I couldn't care less about your advice. But if they ever give you your Internet Attitude Police badge, feel free to come back and wave it in my face (at which point, I'll most likely taunt you again and fart in your general direction). Meanwhile, have a nice day!

 

[CanonCams]

Oy vey!

Speaking of release, rep from B&H said the release will be delayed a few days.

Jusr came from the store.

We all know why. They realized the cameras are shipped with wrong sensors.
B&H actually got the cameras, but now some dude with a screwdriver is replacing sensors at their warehouse. Most likely he'll have to work on Sabbath as well.

Worst Sabbath eva!

 

[C-A430]

I went through 9 pages of this topic and nobody talks about high-ISO. If Fred Miranda is right, 6DII should be the best low light camera in the world. ...

That's a good point but a bit of hyperbole there.
Below the PDR chart at PhotonsToPhotos there is a sortable table.
My Low Light ISO is analygous to but on a different scale than DxOMark Sports.
It looks like the 6D Mark II low light performance is just a bit better than the 6D.
Remember to look at the stops rather than just the ISO value.

I could believe Canon is using modernized and enlarged 7DII sensor. Sensor on par with mark I (6D or 7D) is not believable to me. That is same or worse than Canon 1300D. 800D would outperform 6DII both in high-ISO and DR

 

[SecureGSM]

not a single chance in the world. none, zilch, zero.... do not embarass yourself. 8)

800D would outperform 6DII both in high-ISO and DR

 

[jeffa4444]

Can someone remind me what was the last camera DPR manufactured? Do they really have the equipment Nikon, Canon or Sony would use?

In our workshop we have "very expensive" equipment with a controlled light source to measure DR, in our case we use it for high end movie cameras but the equipment is equally used for stills cameras. The tests are time consuming but they don't rely on subjectivity its a scientific test.
Every beta camera has its firmware adjusted and refined to obtain the maximum DR, with the cleanest image and the correct colour imagery and we have witnessed improvements from cameras that have already been shooting in the field with later versions of firmware.

Too many people here are jumping the gun and not waiting to test "production" cameras as opposed to beta cameras the verdict is no where near out so please wait before passing judgement.

 

[LonelyBoy]

Re: DRpocalypse 2017

In the Canon page for the 6D2 they state, "the EOS 6D Mark II’s sensor captures images of 6240 x 4160 pixels with a pixel size of 5.67 µm square for outstanding detail and a superb signal-to-noise ratio, resulting in great images."

Seems you've missed the demonstrations posted here and especially on DPR, which unequivocally show that 'great images' require at least 12.8 stops of DR and >4 stops of shadow lifting capability. Clearly, Canon is lying.

Give the DPR bashing a rest. They've played no role in this other than quoting a Canon executive. This obsession over DPR is childish and embarrassing. Time to move on.

How many years did they spend banging on about DR to the exclusion of everything else? How many times did the say a Canon lens had "unacceptable" vignetting while the Nikon equivalent, with more vignetting, was described as "pleasing"? No, the DPR bashing can continue for quite some time yet. They deserve to have their noses rubbed in it.

 

[C-A430]

not a single chance in the world. none, zilch, zero.... do not embarass yourself. 8)

800D would outperform 6DII both in high-ISO and DR

I was talking about sensor performance, as in crop vs cropped image of 6DII. Any sensor technology that is too expensive to be in a 1500$ FF camera in 2020 is also too expensive to be in 500$ crop camera in 2020.

Also, if manufacturer says that their 30mm f2 lens is "35mm equivalent" to 48f2 everyone on this forum would correct them that it is actually 48mm-f3.2.

If 30f2 ISO400 (crop) = 30f2 ISO400 (FF), than
30f2 ISO400 (crop) and 48f3.2 ISO400 do NOT have same EXPOSURE
30f2 ISO400 (crop) = 48f3.2 @ISO1000 (FF) -- IF you want same exposure AND depth-of-field you DO need higher ISO on FF

You missed the point anyway. Point is that Canon may not use on-sensor chip as other cameras, but they would not use so outdated technology for it. It will be 5DIV-like or 7DII-like sensor, not 6DI-like.

 

[SecureGSM]

whaaaat.. where do I start you know what. go take a photo of a white wall with your 800D at ISO 6400 and post your RAW file. I will do the same with my 6D and then we will compare the noise levels seriously, let me repeat: please, do not embarass yourself. it is way too funny.

not a single chance in the world. none, zilch, zero.... do not embarass yourself. 8)

800D would outperform 6DII both in high-ISO and DR

I way talking about sensor performance, as in crop vs cropped image of 6DII. Any sensor technology that is too expensive to be in a 1500$ FF camera in 2020 is also too expensive to be in 500$ crop camera in 2020.

Also, if manufacturer says that their 30mm f2 lens is "35mm equivalent" to 48f2 everyone on this forum would correct them that it is actually 48mm-f3.2.

If 30f2 ISO400 (crop) = 30f2 ISO400 (FF), than
30f2 ISO400 (crop) and 48f3.2 ISO400 do NOT have same EXPOSURE
30f2 ISO400 (crop) = 48f3.2 @ISO1000 (FF) -- IF you want same exposure AND depth-of-field you DO need higher ISO on FF

You missed the point anyway. Point is that Canon may not use on-sensor chip as other cameras, but they would not use so outdated technology for it. It will be 5DIV-like or 7DII-like sensor, not 6DI-like.

 

[Sporgon]

;D

Every cloud has a silver lining. Just think of the hours of fun we are going to have in viewing images posted here on CR from the 6DII that have had the highlights under exposed by some three stops or so, and then the shadows lifted by four stops. It's just going to be bliss. I must remember to keep a napkin over my keyboard if I'm drinking coffee at the time !

 

[Mikehit]

not a single chance in the world. none, zilch, zero.... do not embarass yourself. 8)

800D would outperform 6DII both in high-ISO and DR

I was talking about sensor performance, as in crop vs cropped image of 6DII. Any sensor technology that is too expensive to be in a 1500$ FF camera in 2020 is also too expensive to be in 500$ crop camera in 2020.
And how do you work that out? But we are not in 2020 we are in 2017.

Also, if manufacturer says that their 30mm f2 lens is "35mm equivalent" to 48f2 everyone on this forum would correct them that it is actually 48mm-f3.2. I wouldn't because it is not true. There are far too many variables to make such a broad statement

If 30f2 ISO400 (crop) = 30f2 ISO400 (FF), than
30f2 ISO400 (crop) and 48f3.2 ISO400 do NOT have same EXPOSURE
30f2 ISO400 (crop) = 48f3.2 @ISO1000 (FF) -- IF you want same exposure AND depth-of-field you DO need higher ISO on FF

WHAT....?

You missed the point anyway. Point is that Canon may not use on-sensor chip as other cameras, but they would not use so outdated technology for it. It will be 5DIV-like or 7DII-like sensor, not 6DI-like.
That is about the most sensible comment in this whole post. But given the above I am not sure if you have arrived at it by accident or logic...

 

[C-A430]

whaaaat.. where do I start you know what. go take a photo of a white wall with your 800D at ISO 6400 and post your RAW file. I will do the same with my 6D and then we will compare the noise levels seriously, let me repeat: please, do not embarass yourself. it is way too funny.

not a single chance in the world. none, zilch, zero.... do not embarass yourself. 8)

800D would outperform 6DII both in high-ISO and DR

I way talking about sensor performance, as in crop vs cropped image of 6DII. Any sensor technology that is too expensive to be in a 1500$ FF camera in 2020 is also too expensive to be in 500$ crop camera in 2020.

Also, if manufacturer says that their 30mm f2 lens is "35mm equivalent" to 48f2 everyone on this forum would correct them that it is actually 48mm-f3.2.

If 30f2 ISO400 (crop) = 30f2 ISO400 (FF), than
30f2 ISO400 (crop) and 48f3.2 ISO400 do NOT have same EXPOSURE
30f2 ISO400 (crop) = 48f3.2 @ISO1000 (FF) -- IF you want same exposure AND depth-of-field you DO need higher ISO on FF

You missed the point anyway. Point is that Canon may not use on-sensor chip as other cameras, but they would not use so outdated technology for it. It will be 5DIV-like or 7DII-like sensor, not 6DI-like.

800D/T7i is 750$ right now - 6DII is 2.5x the price and has 2.5x bigger sensor.
So, there is no reason for 6D to be too cheap to use same technology as 800D.

There, I simplified it for you.

 

[LonelyBoy]

whaaaat.. where do I start you know what. go take a photo of a white wall with your 800D at ISO 6400 and post your RAW file. I will do the same with my 6D and then we will compare the noise levels seriously, let me repeat: please, do not embarass yourself. it is way too funny.

not a single chance in the world. none, zilch, zero.... do not embarass yourself. 8)

800D would outperform 6DII both in high-ISO and DR

I way talking about sensor performance, as in crop vs cropped image of 6DII. Any sensor technology that is too expensive to be in a 1500$ FF camera in 2020 is also too expensive to be in 500$ crop camera in 2020.

Also, if manufacturer says that their 30mm f2 lens is "35mm equivalent" to 48f2 everyone on this forum would correct them that it is actually 48mm-f3.2.

If 30f2 ISO400 (crop) = 30f2 ISO400 (FF), than
30f2 ISO400 (crop) and 48f3.2 ISO400 do NOT have same EXPOSURE
30f2 ISO400 (crop) = 48f3.2 @ISO1000 (FF) -- IF you want same exposure AND depth-of-field you DO need higher ISO on FF

You missed the point anyway. Point is that Canon may not use on-sensor chip as other cameras, but they would not use so outdated technology for it. It will be 5DIV-like or 7DII-like sensor, not 6DI-like.

800D/T7i is 750$ right now - 6DII is 2.5x the price and has 2.5x bigger sensor.
So, there is no reason for 6D to be too cheap to use same technology as 800D.

There, I simplified it for you.

Yield isn't even close to linear with size. That's why TVs start getting crazy expensive for each extra 5" after a certain point.

 

[SecureGSM]

speaking of fun.. yesterday my 12 y.o. son picked up one of my 6D bodies while I was looking away, pointed at the painting on the wall, took a photo, looked at the screen and found that the picture came out completely out of focus. scratched his had and took another one - same result, OOF again. he turned around and said: Dad, I am not stupid. I know what is going on. Your camera has a fingerprint scanner inbuilt in the shutter button just like in my Ipad home button, ok? it would not focus as my fingeprint was not recognised. that is why!
It is all my fault of course as I never explained to my son what the Back Button AF is

;D

Every cloud has a silver lining. Just think of the hours of fun we are going to have in viewing images posted here on CR from the 6DII that have had the highlights under exposed by some three stops or so, and then the shadows lifted by four stops. It's just going to be bliss. I must remember to keep a napkin over my keyboard if I'm drinking coffee at the time !

 

[C-A430]

not a single chance in the world. none, zilch, zero.... do not embarass yourself. 8)

800D would outperform 6DII both in high-ISO and DR

I was talking about sensor performance, as in crop vs cropped image of 6DII. Any sensor technology that is too expensive to be in a 1500$ FF camera in 2020 is also too expensive to be in 500$ crop camera in 2020.
And how do you work that out? But we are not in 2020 we are in 2017. How do you know when the 800D will be released?

Also, if manufacturer says that their 30mm f2 lens is "35mm equivalent" to 48f2 everyone on this forum would correct them that it is actually 48mm-f3.2. I wouldn't because it is not true. There are far too many variables to make such a broad statement

If 30f2 ISO400 (crop) = 30f2 ISO400 (FF), than
30f2 ISO400 (crop) and 48f3.2 ISO400 do NOT have same EXPOSURE
30f2 ISO400 (crop) = 48f3.2 @ISO1000 (FF) -- IF you want same exposure AND depth-of-field you DO need higher ISO on FF

WHAT....?

You missed the point anyway. Point is that Canon may not use on-sensor chip as other cameras, but they would not use so outdated technology for it. It will be 5DIV-like or 7DII-like sensor, not 6DI-like.
That is about the most sensible comment in this whole post. But given the above I am not sure if you have arrived at it by accident or logic...

People buy 6D for its FF sensor, otherwise 7DII is better in EVERY SINGLE WAY (except size, which is subjective whats better).

As for the ISO - Google it. Noise performance is the same between sensor sizes. It is the availability of lenses that is different. There is no 24-70mm f2.8 IS equivalent on crop. I doubt there will ever be 15-50 F1.8 IS.

Everything else is a confusion caused by misunderstatement and fact that people care much more about shallow DOF, that about deep DOF.

 

[bdunbar79]

not a single chance in the world. none, zilch, zero.... do not embarass yourself. 8)

800D would outperform 6DII both in high-ISO and DR

I was talking about sensor performance, as in crop vs cropped image of 6DII. Any sensor technology that is too expensive to be in a 1500$ FF camera in 2020 is also too expensive to be in 500$ crop camera in 2020.
And how do you work that out? But we are not in 2020 we are in 2017. How do you know when the 800D will be released?

Also, if manufacturer says that their 30mm f2 lens is "35mm equivalent" to 48f2 everyone on this forum would correct them that it is actually 48mm-f3.2. I wouldn't because it is not true. There are far too many variables to make such a broad statement

If 30f2 ISO400 (crop) = 30f2 ISO400 (FF), than
30f2 ISO400 (crop) and 48f3.2 ISO400 do NOT have same EXPOSURE
30f2 ISO400 (crop) = 48f3.2 @ISO1000 (FF) -- IF you want same exposure AND depth-of-field you DO need higher ISO on FF

WHAT....?

You missed the point anyway. Point is that Canon may not use on-sensor chip as other cameras, but they would not use so outdated technology for it. It will be 5DIV-like or 7DII-like sensor, not 6DI-like.
That is about the most sensible comment in this whole post. But given the above I am not sure if you have arrived at it by accident or logic...

People buy 6D for its FF sensor, otherwise 7DII is better in EVERY SINGLE WAY (except size, which is subjective whats better).

As for the ISO - Google it. Noise performance is the same between sensor sizes. It is the availability of lenses that is different. There is no 24-70mm f2.8 IS equivalent on crop. I doubt there will ever be 15-50 F1.8 IS.

Everything else is a confusion caused by misunderstatement and fact that people care much more about shallow DOF, that about deep DOF.

I think the only one confused is you. If you shoot at ISO 6400, the 6D has 1.2 stops more DR. Period.