Analysis of RAW samples at Fred Miranda show weak DR

[Khalai]

Hello,

This is my first post here, I am following the forum for about 1 year, waiting to upgrade my Canon 700D to some FF camera, I was so inpatient with the release of Canon 6D2 hoping that this will be my first FF camera but after some preliminary testing looks like is not big of an upgrade to 6D. In the meantime I invested my money in some glass, 16-35 F4, 24-70 F2.8 and 70-200 F2.8, the question is, let's say I can afford 5D Mark IV, should I go for it instead of 6D2, usually I shoot cityscape, landscape, travel.

It depends. After ISO 400 and above, it doesn't matter which sensor you'll use. If you shoot mainly at lowest ISO, want the best editing latitude and can afford 5D IV, then go for it. If you need a lighter camera with articulated screen and want to save money for another lens, 6D II will still perform well enough. Just not the best IQ in the Canon offering, that's all.

 

[DaLiu]

99% of the time I shoot at lowest ISO for the best results.

 

[Khalai]

99% of the time I shoot at lowest ISO for the best results.

So if you can afford it, go for 5D4. Or perhaps 5Dsr, if you value resolution above all.

 

[Joules]

99% of the time I shoot at lowest ISO for the best results.

If you push your brightness in post, going for a higher ISO and pushing less will give you better results unless you need the bit of extra Dynamic Range. So if you're like me and your shooting style either involves static subjects (Cityscapes) or requires dealing with little light (Macro) the low ISO IQ difference between the 5DIV and 6DII might not be worth sacrificing the screen and size of the 6DII. I would at least not get anything from a 5DIV for my shooting style, I think.

On a side note, the 6DII at least really seems sharper, both in terms of image detail and noise texture to me. Still haven't touched any RAWs myself, but if that turns out to be true, I find that fairly great.

 

[DaLiu]

In 1 week we should see the real results.

 

[SecureGSM]

I have noticed that as well. not sure if that is due to image to image variation or the real 6D II sharpness advantage. looking at the images below, the sharpest is the 6D II, following by 5D III, then 5D IV (downsampled though), and then 6D original.

On a side note, the 6DII at least really seems sharper, both in terms of image detail and noise texture to me. Still haven't touched any RAWs myself, but if that turns out to be true, I find that fairly great.

 

[Mikehit]

What i wanted to see was an improvement in IQ from this product.

And it looks like there is if you look at Secure's emails

Canon is providing the market with something that will sell and make profit. Not exactly what was wanted, and nothing it needed.

If it is not wanted, how will it sell and make a profit?
What was needed (according to pre-announcement hype) was a 6D with better AF and a tilty screen. That is what they have delivered.

You are contradicting yourself only because it did not meet your expectations. So either Canon got this model wrong or you had unrealistic expectations.
Which one was it?

Kind of an expectation-bait-and-switch. They're good at it. Lots of practice.

Do you even know what 'bait and switch' means?
What did they promise and what did they switch?

 

[Don Haines]

I still say wait until results from retail units are analyzed, but it does not look promising.....

If it is not a significant improvement over the 6D, I will not be getting one. That said, even if we at CR condem the new camera, it will still do well in mass market sales. Most of the specs are good and only a very few people care about DR and noise floors.

 

[Khalai]

I still say wait until results from retail units are analyzed, but it does not look promising.....

If it is not a significant improvement over the 6D, I will not be getting one. That said, even if we at CR condem the new camera, it will still do well in mass market sales. Most of the specs are good and only a very few people care about DR and noise floors.

What seems interesting is that perceived sharpness at those sample lab shots. Very weak OLPF? Dammit, if they paired that with 5D IV DR performance, that would be much much MUCH better...

 

[Cory]

The recent 6D "hate" articles are clearly a conspiracy to get lower 6D prices lower so that the authors can get more 6D's for themselves. Couldn't be more clear.

 

[Mikehit]

I still say wait until results from retail units are analyzed, but it does not look promising.....

If it is not a significant improvement over the 6D, I will not be getting one.

I think this comes up with every model in recent years.
Do they release a new model to entice people to upgrade within that model (6D to 6D2, 5DIII to 5DIV etc)? Or is it aimed at people wanting a functional updgrade (APS-C to FF) or a second body.

Remember all the calls of 'the 5DIV is insufficient an upgrade' only to find that many pros did upgrade because of overall usability? My guess is that a lot of 6D owners will upgrade for no other reason than tilty screen and better off-centre AF and all they want is that the image quality is no worse.

 

[IglooEater]

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr144_0=canon_eos6dmkii&attr144_1=canon_eos5dmkiv&attr144_2=canon_eos5dmkiii&attr144_3=canon_eos6d&attr146_0=100_4&attr146_1=100_4&attr146_2=100_4&attr146_3=100_4&normalization=compare&widget=542&x=0.12478637699999998&y=0.5037718175621028

Knock yourselves out!

 

[dlee13]

So I been playing around with the image comparison tool on DPR and I also noticed the sharper details in the 6D2 files. Now I have a 1440p 27" monitor so this may look different on some peoples displays, but to me the 6D2 has the sharpest detail out out all 4. I would defitnely say the other 3 have slightly less noise, but the noise on the 6D2 isn't bad and is easily fixable.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr144_0=canon_eos6dmkii&attr144_1=nikon_d5&attr144_2=canon_eos5dmkiv&attr144_3=sony_a9&attr146_0=100_2&attr146_1=100_2&attr146_2=100_2&attr146_3=100_2&attr177_3=off&normalization=compare&widget=542&x=0.2697635705532646&y=1.062609813765784

I was already happy with the 6D2 and even more say. Maybe Canon really reduced the AA filter which made it hard for them to increase the DR?

 

[SecureGSM]

1. The 6D II produced the second best image with lesser level of aliasing following the 5D IV. please refer to the image below. it appears that the AA filter strength of the 6D II is adequate.
notice how concentric circular lines in the left corner, for an instance , produce the least aliased patern in the image taken with 5D IV, folowed by 6D II, then by 5D III and finaly by the 6D original.
2. Yellows and reds are a bit different in 6D II image. notice how reds and yellows of the 6d II are similar to the reds and yellows of the 5D IV. 6d original colours are closer to the 5d III colours.
3. Colours in 5D III and 6D original images appear to be a bit more saturated then colours of 5d IV and 6D II. the 5D IV's colours appear to be the least saturated out of four.

I still say wait until results from retail units are analyzed, but it does not look promising.....

If it is not a significant improvement over the 6D, I will not be getting one. That said, even if we at CR condem the new camera, it will still do well in mass market sales. Most of the specs are good and only a very few people care about DR and noise floors.

What seems interesting is that perceived sharpness at those sample lab shots. Very weak OLPF? Dammit, if they paired that with 5D IV DR performance, that would be much much MUCH better...

 

[Cory]

Is it possible that all of this anti-6D testing was performed by inferior photographers?

 

[Don Haines]

I still say wait until results from retail units are analyzed, but it does not look promising.....

If it is not a significant improvement over the 6D, I will not be getting one.

I think this comes up with every model in recent years.
Do they release a new model to entice people to upgrade within that model (6D to 6D2, 5DIII to 5DIV etc)? Or is it aimed at people wanting a functional updgrade (APS-C to FF) or a second body.

Remember all the calls of 'the 5DIV is insufficient an upgrade' only to find that many pros did upgrade because of overall usability? My guess is that a lot of 6D owners will upgrade for no other reason than tilty screen and better off-centre AF and all they want is that the image quality is no worse.

In general (and not just with cameras) I tend to skip models as the model to model upgrades are insufficient to tempt me, but when you skip two models it is a different story. It's like the 7D3 rumors.... I have very little interest in it, but by the time the 7D4 comes out, I will be ready to jump.

 

[Loswr]

I still say wait until results from retail units are analyzed, but it does not look promising.....

If it is not a significant improvement over the 6D, I will not be getting one.

I think this comes up with every model in recent years.
Do they release a new model to entice people to upgrade within that model (6D to 6D2, 5DIII to 5DIV etc)? Or is it aimed at people wanting a functional updgrade (APS-C to FF) or a second body.

Remember all the calls of 'the 5DIV is insufficient an upgrade' only to find that many pros did upgrade because of overall usability? My guess is that a lot of 6D owners will upgrade for no other reason than tilty screen and better off-centre AF and all they want is that the image quality is no worse.

In general (and not just with cameras) I tend to skip models as the model to model upgrades are insufficient to tempt me, but when you skip two models it is a different story. It's like the 7D3 rumors.... I have very little interest in it, but by the time the 7D4 comes out, I will be ready to jump.

Same here. Skipped the 1D X II, but I'll likely get the 1D X III. Had the EOS M, only got the M2 because the M died and a new M2 was around the same cost as Canon's prix fixe repair for the M. Skipped the M3, I'll be getting the M6 before my next trip.

 

[Luds34]

... Or it will be just as usual: the Canon 6D II will prove to be, in the field, much better than it looks now, and even the people who are blaming it today will buy and appreciate it (esp. when its price will drop by 20-30% in the next months/quarters).

That's impossible! Haven't you been reading this thread? The 6D2 is junk, DOA, garbage! ;D

So it appears that the sensor in the 6D2 equals the on in the 6D. That is not a bad thing. I mean up until roughly a year ago and we started to see the next gen equipment from Canon, the 6D had basically "as good as it gets" in the sensor department (from Canon). Sure, many probably hoped to see the continuous improvement that other models are/were seeing in base ISO dynamic range, but to me that's just icing on the cake. I shot the 6D for over 2 years and loved the ability of what that sensor could produce.

In fact, I know I have posts on here a year ago saying you could give me a 6D2 with the same sensor and I'd be happy. The limitations of the 6D were it's tracking (ai servo), focus system. Add in DPAF and other features we're seeing in this new camera and the 6D2 is hitting the checklist of all (read "most" for you picky types) the short coming of it's predecessor.

I just don't recall a year ago, two years ago, the sensor of the 6D being where all the grumbling was at. :

 

[dlee13]

Is it possible that all of this anti-6D testing was performed by inferior photographers?

You can look at their images and judge for yourself, I won't say anything

 

[Luds34]

I have noticed that as well. not sure if that is due to image to image variation or the real 6D II sharpness advantage. looking at the images below, the sharpest is the 6D II, following by 5D III, then 5D IV (downsampled though), and then 6D original.

On a side note, the 6DII at least really seems sharper, both in terms of image detail and noise texture to me. Still haven't touched any RAWs myself, but if that turns out to be true, I find that fairly great.

Wait, sharpness matters? I thought it was only base ISO DR?? Now I'm confused on what constitutes IQ. ???

Seriously, that is almost too much of a difference. The 6D is so soft that I almost have to ask if focus was slightly off. If that test is legit than I'd argue that is a very significant improvement in sensor IQ for the mark II.