Analysis of RAW samples at Fred Miranda show weak DR

[Loswr]

Are there any reasons the focusing wouldn't have the same performance wise as in the 80d? Obvious the spread is smaller than on the crop, but other than that, I was under the impression it was borrowed directly, so would have essentially the same performance?

Different processor, different firmware. But probably no different, and if so, not worse.

 

[ritholtz]

And now a very weak review of the autofocus from DPR it really seems as if the upgrade is just the flippy touch screen.

When DPR 'tested' the 1D X II AF system, they criticized it for performing exactly as Canon states it should (e.g., automatic point selection initially selecting the closest subject), and used settings which Canon explicitly recommends against (e.g., Spot AF with moving subjects). Too hard for them to RTFM, I guess. DPR is already biased against Canon, and when you factor in their incompetence at using Canon's AF systems, I'd take anything they say about Canon AF performance with a few grains of salt. About this many should do the trick.

Are there any reasons the focusing wouldn't have the same performance wise as in the 80d? Obvious the spread is smaller than on the crop, but other than that, I was under the impression it was borrowed directly, so would have essentially the same performance?

Based on dpr focusing tests 80d also did pretty bad. They suppose to be redoing those tests by selecting initial focus point. They seem to test/print only with all points auto mode in view finder tests and ignore rest of the stuff. It always comes down to canon auto mode with all points vs Nikon 3d focusing. I think Nikon has option to pick the face in view finder. In their recent comparison between sl2 vs d3400, they even mentioned strengths of Nikon 3d focusing system when compared to Canon sl2. But it is Nikon 11 points focusing system vs Canon 9 focusing points. How much difference 3d focusing makes only with 11 points vs Canon 9 focusing points.

 

[ritholtz]

If you are stuck with Canon gear, DPR helps to make switch less painful. I think they are slowly turning in to news aggregator like specific gear rumor websites rather than spending serious time on gear reviews.

https://www.dpreview.com/news/4815339354/sony-trade-up-program-gets-you-500-plus-trade-in-value-towards-a-new-a9

 

[Jack Douglas]

Someone will get some really good C/N cameras for cheap. Good scheme - Until folk find out the grass isn't so totally green on the Sony side.

Jack

 

[Talys]

If you are stuck with Canon gear, DPR helps to make switch less painful. I think they are slowly turning in to news aggregator like specific gear rumor websites rather than spending serious time on gear reviews.

https://www.dpreview.com/news/4815339354/sony-trade-up-program-gets-you-500-plus-trade-in-value-towards-a-new-a9

On the A9 deal, it all depends what they give you for your old Canon/Nikon. Chances are, the trade in values won't be super awesome.

The A7RII, that's pretty cool, if you're in the market for one. Just go find someone who will sell you an old, barely-working ILC for $50... or free... and presto, a few hundred bucks off

I wonder how many people are trading in the Leica M10 for an extra $500 off

Someone will get some really good C/N cameras for cheap. Good scheme - Until folk find out the grass isn't so totally green on the Sony side.

Jack

You think? I'd imagine they'd use them for internal R&D or destroy them... they wouldn't want more C/N's out there, right?

 

[Jack Douglas]

Well they're asking for 1DX2, 6D2 etc. as trade - destroy?! Or are we to assume that no one having better gear is foolish enough?

Jack

 

[Talys]

Well they're asking for 1DX2, 6D2 etc. as trade - destroy?! Or are we to assume that no one having better gear is foolish enough?

Jack

Well some $6000+ Leica's too I think they're on the list, just to be on the list, frankly, because nobody is going to trade in their 1DX2 for a $500 discount (if they're going to get an a9 and own a 1DX2, the $500 will be neither here nor there).

What I meant is that I doubt the traded-in 1DX2 will go back "onto the market". Sony could use them for internal R&D, but they wouldn't want the possibility that they could end up being resold, and re-enter the public market, because after all, the purpose of the rebate is to get rid of (one) high-end camera in favor of a Sony one. If I were a Sony employee, and happy with my Sony A9, but I got a cheap 1DX2, I might be sorely tempted to turn that into a Christmas bonus.

On the cameras like A7RII, they'll take any working camera, and I assume Sony doesn't want any of those to go back into the used camera market either, so destruction would seem like a reasonable thing to do, if they don't have a use for it.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Well they're asking for 1DX2, 6D2 etc. as trade - destroy?! Or are we to assume that no one having better gear is foolish enough?

Jack

Well some $6000+ Leica's too I think they're on the list, just to be on the list, frankly, because nobody is going to trade in their 1DX2 for a $500 discount (if they're going to get an a9 and own a 1DX2, the $500 will be neither here nor there).

What I meant is that I doubt the traded-in 1DX2 will go back "onto the market". Sony could use them for internal R&D, but they wouldn't want the possibility that they could end up being resold, and re-enter the public market, because after all, the purpose of the rebate is to get rid of (one) high-end camera in favor of a Sony one. If I were a Sony employee, and happy with my Sony A9, but I got a cheap 1DX2, I might be sorely tempted to turn that into a Christmas bonus.

On the cameras like A7RII, they'll take any working camera, and I assume Sony doesn't want any of those to go back into the used camera market either, so destruction would seem like a reasonable thing to do, if they don't have a use for it.

Of course. I was only half serious. Who knows what they will do and whether this will really prove successful. One thing for sure there is pressure being brought to bear on Canon by the other innovators and that is a positive thing.

Jack

 

[SecureGSM]

Today I announced my own Canon gear trade in program that sure to put pressure on Canon Australia:

Trade in your low mileage, mint Canon 5D IV for my used 5D III and receive instant cashback of A$1,000.00
or
Trade in your low mileage, mint Canon 5D IV for my very slightly used 6D and receive instant cashback of A$1,500.00 and receive brand new Vanguard Pro camera bag valued A$150.
Limited offer, while the stock lasts.

Any takers in Australia?

...One thing for sure there is pressure being brought to bear on Canon by the other innovators and that is a positive thing.

Jack

 

[Jack Douglas]

Now why didn't I think of that!

Jack

 

[Jopa]

Someone will get some really good C/N cameras for cheap. Good scheme - Until folk find out the grass isn't so totally green on the Sony side.

Jack

Actually Sony sensors are notorious for their love to green color

 

[Jopa]

I think that was the original Sony plan:

1. Make a camera to sell with no margin
2. Create a buzz and convince people to trade in their expensive cameras for peanuts
3. Sell the cameras from #2 in bulk on eBay
4. ?????
5. Profit

 

[LonelyBoy]

Well they're asking for 1DX2, 6D2 etc. as trade - destroy?! Or are we to assume that no one having better gear is foolish enough?

Jack

Well some $6000+ Leica's too I think they're on the list, just to be on the list, frankly, because nobody is going to trade in their 1DX2 for a $500 discount (if they're going to get an a9 and own a 1DX2, the $500 will be neither here nor there).

What I meant is that I doubt the traded-in 1DX2 will go back "onto the market". Sony could use them for internal R&D, but they wouldn't want the possibility that they could end up being resold, and re-enter the public market, because after all, the purpose of the rebate is to get rid of (one) high-end camera in favor of a Sony one. If I were a Sony employee, and happy with my Sony A9, but I got a cheap 1DX2, I might be sorely tempted to turn that into a Christmas bonus.

On the cameras like A7RII, they'll take any working camera, and I assume Sony doesn't want any of those to go back into the used camera market either, so destruction would seem like a reasonable thing to do, if they don't have a use for it.

Of course. I was only half serious. Who knows what they will do and whether this will really prove successful. One thing for sure there is pressure being brought to bear on Canon by the other innovators and that is a positive thing.

Jack

Until it dents Canon's sales, it doesn't even put pressure on them.

 

[Talys]

Today I announced my own Canon gear trade in program that sure to put pressure on Canon Australia:

Trade in your low mileage, mint Canon 5D IV for my used 5D III and receive instant cashback of A$1,000.00
or
Trade in your low mileage, mint Canon 5D IV for my very slightly used 6D and receive instant cashback of A$1,500.00 and receive brand new Vanguard Pro camera bag valued A$150.
Limited offer, while the stock lasts.

Any takers in Australia?

I have a better deal exclusively for people in the North American ABC market who are having a hard time unloading their Canon 5DIV.

Trade in your working Canon 5DIV of any condition, and I will ship you, at no charge, a camera that I guarantee will not be manufactured by Canon. Plus, FREE, a your choice of quality Chinese camera bags, filters, nonfunctional IR triggers and tripods that are normally exclusively available only as bundled Amazon stuff, also, guaranteed to not be manufactured by Canon. Act now, and I will throw in a Gary Fong light modifier.

But for a limited time, I will also extend this deal to our Australian friends!

 

[tomscott]

Im finding my 6DMKII is having focus inconsistencies in the same way documented with the 70D/80D and 7DMKII. Having 3 of these cameras I can attest to this.

When it hits its perfect, it seems to hit and not be tack but slightly off or some cases it thinks it locks on and nothing in the frame is in focus at all like its at infinity.

From what ive read it seems all the cameras with DPAF have the same issues, my 5DMKIII didn't have any of these inconsistencies when it was off, it was my fault. The 7DMKII has the same AF system but I find it often does the above and it can be really annoying and it would seem for no reason.

I shot a wedding on Friday and from looking at the images it seems to do it more than the odd image... but the shots it hit were beautifully sharp.

One way I find you can combat is instead of run and gun 3 shot shooting, quickly press the and depress so it refocuses or set the AFON to AI servo in quick situations.

Obviously the difficulty with portraiture and wide apertures is although your subject is still, people move. Even F2.8 you only get a couple of CM of DOF so if your on the eye then one small sway will result in an off shot. Sounds a bit silly but AI servo with portraits and large aperture lenses can be really useful.

Unfortunately this doesnt solve the issue of the camera being way out with nothing in focus. The only thing that can change this is by changing the acquisition speed by biasing the AF toward critical focus before it it will allow the shutter to be pressed. Although issues with this is it makes the camera slower and doesnt always shoot when you want it to.

I think i need to play with it some more but it should be hitting static subjects with portraiture at 90% or more imo. Im used to having the cases and although you can set the 6DMKII up the same way you have to set custom AF cases to the C buttons.

It could well be that it doesn't play so well with my 24-70mm F2.8 MKI although it is in the group A for usable focus points. My 70-200mm MKII seemed to play nicer and barely had any inconsistencies with it.

 

[SecureGSM]

Tom, I am sorry to hear that you are having AF consitency issues with some lenses on your new Canon 6D II.
However the issues you are experiencing have unlikely anything to do with the DPAF capabilities of the sensor.
Just a reminder that 1DX II and 5D IV cameras are also DPAF enabled cameras but so far not known to exibit AF consistency issues.
Please note: metering sensor in 5D IV and 1DX II is vastly different from the one in 80D and 6D II.

please read here for details:
http://www.canon-asia.com/cplus/en/metering-system/

Im finding my 6DMKII is having focus inconsistencies in the same way documented with the 70D/80D and 7DMKII. Having 3 of these cameras I can attest to this.

When it hits its perfect, it seems to hit and not be tack but slightly off or some cases it thinks it locks on and nothing in the frame is in focus at all like its at infinity.

From what ive read it seems all the cameras with DPAF have the same issues

 

[tomscott]

Tom, I am sorry to hear that you are having AF consitency issues with some lenses on your new Canon 6D II.
However the issues you are experiencing have unlikely anything to do with the DPAF capabilities of the sensor.
Just a reminder that 1DX II and 5D IV cameras are also DPAF enabled cameras but so far not known to exibit AF consistency issues.
Please note: metering sensor in 5D IV and 1DX II is vastly different from the one in 80D and 6D II.

please read here for details:
http://www.canon-asia.com/cplus/en/metering-system/

Im finding my 6DMKII is having focus inconsistencies in the same way documented with the 70D/80D and 7DMKII. Having 3 of these cameras I can attest to this.

When it hits its perfect, it seems to hit and not be tack but slightly off or some cases it thinks it locks on and nothing in the frame is in focus at all like its at infinity.

From what ive read it seems all the cameras with DPAF have the same issues

I understand that I was meaning the issues of the 70/80D and 7DMKII are present in the 6DMKII meaning it doesn't seem to have been tweaked and behaves very similarly.

 

[SecureGSM]

Tom, I have posted before that I see you stepping up to 5D IV body level relatively shortly as 6D II as a tool, in my humble opinion, is way too limiting for your professional applications. Cost difference between 6D II and 5D IV body is negligible for a business tool that you can amortise over relatively short period of time and seeing you are serving enterprise clients (meaning reasonably well paid jobs), I would not be too much concerned about USD € £ 1000 whatever price difference.

 

[tomscott]

Tom, I have posted before that I see you stepping up to 5D IV body level relatively shortly as 6D II as a tool, in my humble opinion, is way too limiting for your professional applications. Cost difference between 6D II and 5D IV body is negligible for a business tool that you can amortise over relatively short period of time and seeing you are serving enterprise clients (meaning reasonably well paid jobs), I would not be too much concerned about USD € £ 1000 whatever price difference.

Shoot with one before you come to conclusions.

This is the reason I am relaying feedback of my experience. To help people get a better idea of what the camera is actually capable of.

The camera body is only one aspect of a rather large financial wheel when running a photography business.

Without doubt the 5DMKIV is a better camera but what is offers isn't night and day and isnt worth nearly 50% more than what I paid for this 6DMKII. Give it 6 months when the 5DMKIV is around the £2000/2200 then I will consider one.

I for one wont play this game of you have to have XYZ to shoot professionally. We are at a point where you can get incredible images from entry level gear and stepping up has negligible benefits and nearly double the cost.

In reality that £1000 to be dissolved would be roughly an extra 4-5 weddings, by the time you pay tax, pay yourself for time, print books, pay for fuel, paying for the rig to edit and of course a roof over my head etc etc it goes on.

I dont think its worth it. I would be better investing in advertising my business for the 2019/20 season and waiting for costs to reduce.

 

[SecureGSM]

Sure. Sounds like are solid business plan.