Any thing Shot with a 5ds/r

[jrista]

Jon, thank you for taking the time for this detailed explanation. I really appreciate it. I compared both images at 100% view. I understood from your explanation that there should be comparable or slightly less noise when I downsize the 5Ds' image to the size of the image of a 5d II. But why should I do this? I need larger files straight out of the cam because stitching is not always possible (and makes things more complicated, takes extra time, causes additional noise etc.). I need larger files for larger prints or larger crops from these files. So larger files with less noise is what I'm looking for. I don't need the best autofocus and 5 fps. I shoot landscapes, most of the time at ISO 100 till 400. I use manual focus lenses for the majority of my important shots. I just need large clean files, which can be lifted in post by at least 1 stop without increasing noise too much. I hope that the 5Ds offers them but I'm not conviced yet. The sharpness and details are amazing, I have to admit.

BTW, I thought the purpose of these "Any thing shot with ..." threads is to show how capable this particular camera or lens is. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You downsample to get apples-to-apples comparisons. If the 5D II had smaller pixels, it would have as much or more noise than the 5Ds. Your just comparing noise at different frequencies. In this case, the 5Ds noise is smaller than the 5D II can even resolve.

Anyway. If you want larger files with less noise at full size, then you might want to look beyond the bounds of Canonland. Canon cameras have higher read noise, simple as that. Until Canon reduces their read noise, and improves their signal quality, it's a simple tradeoff: increased resolution for more noise.

Now, with print. Larger prints are usually viewed at a greater distance. With greater distance, visual acuity drops. You might view an 8x10 at a foot and a half. You view a 24x36 at many feet. Combined with some NR, the higher noise of the 5Ds isn't going to be much of an issue.

 

[RunAndGun]

Eldar, thank you for posting this panorama in full size. I always wondered if this 5DsR is really as good as some people claim. The level of details and sharpness is!
I shoot mainly landscapes and hate the noise of the 5D II, especially in the sky. No matter which ISO I choose, there is always some noise. Often I use grad ND filters and later one need to brighten up parts of the sky by a 1/3 or even 1 stop. Then noise can become a problem for a pixel peeper....
Now I saw that your pano was shot at ISO 100. So I took a crop to compare it with a shot from my 5D II. For this purpose I converted with Canon DPP one of my Raw files into a JPEG (just a conversion, nothing else done in DPP). I have no full size JPEGs out of came available and it's late at night. So a Raw to JPEG conversion must do. Attached is the comparison of the sky at 100% view.

BTW Eldar, a 242.5 MP pano is very impressiv. I guess you can easily print it several meters wide without noticing any noise at all. The details and sharpness of this pano are amazing. With Photoshop I reduced the size from 30548 to just 12000 pixel long (with auto rendering applied). With 37 MP it still has amazing details and sharpness and now the noise is comparable to my 5D II. So your picture was very useful for me to make some tests. Thank you.

Are the crops mislabeled? To me the 5DII sky crop looks pretty darn clean and the 5Ds looks noisy/has weird blocking.

 

[eml58]

12 Apostles (Now 7) Great Ocean Road Victoria

3 Shot Pano, should have taken more notice of Sporgon's wonderful Pano Images

5DsR Otus 85f/1.4 @ f/8

Hi, I downloaded your picture. What happened to all the fine details? It's just 2.86 MB and in 100% view you can clearly see why. The attached 100% crop shows what I mean. I would love to see the details of the original images used to create this pano.

Fair question.

I had several attempts to get the original stitched image into a file size small enough to fit on CR, some attempts were quite horrible.

It's a reflection of my computer skills, not in any way a reflection on the Camera.

 

[eml58]

12 Apostles (Now 7) Great Ocean Road Victoria

3 Shot Pano, should have taken more notice of Sporgon's wonderful Pano Images

5DsR Otus 85f/1.4 @ f/8

Some interesting physical geography there ! I think that is the sort of picture that would really come into its own on a 2 m wide canvas !

3 frames ? So landscape orientation I presume. You've shot it with the highest resolution FF camera, with the highest available resolving lens and made a format that is larger than DMF: so assuming your technique is on the money (which I know it is !) that picture must be the very highest possible IQ that we can currently achieve ! I'd love to see the full size image.

Thanks Sporgon.

Yes, 3 Frames unfortunately hand held, the Original stitched image I'm happy with (not ecstatic mind), but I had a lot of trouble getting such a huge file reduced to a size that could be posted, I use On One's Suite & in this case Resize.

Panoramas for me are a work in progress, it's what I bought the Camera for, now I just need to refine the skills.

 

[Sporgon]

12 Apostles (Now 7) Great Ocean Road Victoria

3 Shot Pano, should have taken more notice of Sporgon's wonderful Pano Images

5DsR Otus 85f/1.4 @ f/8

Some interesting physical geography there ! I think that is the sort of picture that would really come into its own on a 2 m wide canvas !

3 frames ? So landscape orientation I presume. You've shot it with the highest resolution FF camera, with the highest available resolving lens and made a format that is larger than DMF: so assuming your technique is on the money (which I know it is !) that picture must be the very highest possible IQ that we can currently achieve ! I'd love to see the full size image.

Thanks Sporgon.

Yes, 3 Frames unfortunately hand held, the Original stitched image I'm happy with (not ecstatic mind), but I had a lot of trouble getting such a huge file reduced to a size that could be posted, I use On One's Suite & in this case Resize.

Panoramas for me are a work in progress, it's what I bought the Camera for, now I just need to refine the skills.

It's better to shoot panos in multiple portrait orientation for a number of reasons. Shooting free hand works very well this way, especially when you need to shoot the frames quickly and reduce the variations in the wave pattern. Then change orientation and shoot sections that are moving - you may need these to patch parts of the pano that won't stitch satisfactorily due to movement.

 

[KeithBreazeal]

This is my third test of the Canon 5DS. Here is a sample for the ability to capture detail and shadow recovery. Upper left is the thumbnail of the full image. Note the shadow recovery is maxed out to 100. The shadow recovery is very good with the recovery of the eye color.

5DS test 3 Canada Goose detail shadow recovery arrows web © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal, on Flickr

 

[CaiLeDao]

Used a 5D SR yesterday and was impressed by the results. I bought it for landscapes really but as my partner wanted a wedding dress shoot in lavender fields I took it along to try it out. I have had a 5D Mark III from when that came out and always been happy with the results. So shooting in bright sunlight, no shade, gives a lot of contrast and normally I would have to use some exposure compensation to get the whites white. This image is shot with no compensation or post actions other than I turned the 50MB Raw into a 1Mb Jpeg. The white burnt out area in the bottom right does recover well, but this is as "off the camera".

F2.8 24-70mm Mark ii
Settings iso100, 50mm, F4 1/800, AWB

Of course the picture could be improved, prefer more overcast conditions where I can use some flash as well, but the metering seems better that the 5D III and I haven't found any moire in the images shot. The latitude for recovery at both ends is improved, as many other in the post are demonstrating.

 

[jrista]

This is my third test of the Canon 5DS. Here is a sample for the ability to capture detail and shadow recovery. Upper left is the thumbnail of the full image. Note the shadow recovery is maxed out to 100. The shadow recovery is very good with the recovery of the eye color.

5DS test 3 Canada Goose detail shadow recovery arrows web © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal, on Flickr

Just to keep things in perspective...this is a pretty standard shadow recovery. I do this all the time with the 5D III. I would be very curious to know how the 5Ds handles something like this:

(Note, the histogram of the full image stretches from the left through the right edge. In this crop, the histogram is bunched up along the left hand edge, and you can see how the recovery, which was a +4 stop exposure push and around three more stops shadow push with the Shadows slider and curves, fills the histogram out.)

If the 5Ds has really been improved, it should at least be able to handle a +3 stop global exposure push without exhibiting banding. Anyone willing to give that a try?

 

[KeithBreazeal]

This is my third test of the Canon 5DS. Here is a sample for the ability to capture detail and shadow recovery. Upper left is the thumbnail of the full image. Note the shadow recovery is maxed out to 100. The shadow recovery is very good with the recovery of the eye color.

5DS test 3 Canada Goose detail shadow recovery arrows web © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal, on Flickr

Just to keep things in perspective...this is a pretty standard shadow recovery. I do this all the time with the 5D III. I would be very curious to know how the 5Ds handles something like this:

(Note, the histogram of the full image stretches from the left through the right edge. In this crop, the histogram is bunched up along the left hand edge, and you can see how the recovery, which was a +4 stop exposure push and around three more stops shadow push with the Shadows slider and curves, fills the histogram out.)

If the 5Ds has really been improved, it should at least be able to handle a +3 stop global exposure push without exhibiting banding. Anyone willing to give that a try?

I don't care what your Sony or Nlkon does. This is a thread for the 5DS. If you go to the Sony site, I'm sure they would love your inputs.
PS: I try to take the correct exposure the first time. If it's way outside dynamic range, maybe an HDR would be better than trying to punish shadow pixels. In the real world, few people take photos 4 stops under and expect good results.

 

[jrista]

I don't care what your Sony or Nlkon does. This is a thread for the 5DS. If you go to the Sony site, I'm sure they would love your inputs.
PS: I try to take the correct exposure the first time. If it's way outside dynamic range, maybe an HDR would be better than trying to punish shadow pixels. In the real world, few people take photos 4 stops under and expect good results.

Wow...another impudent jackass on Canon Rumors forums. What a surprise... That's truly sad, how this forum collects uncompromizing... Well, not really a surprise I guess... Neither is the implication that I don't know how to expose...is that the only trick up a Canonites sleeve these days? :

I was trying to extend an olive branch. That I'm willing to admit Canon made some solid improvements with the 5Ds if it could actually be pushed more than a stop or two. I am really, actually interested in seeing what the 5Ds can do. Hence the reason I asked. At the moment, I have no plans nor interest in buying one, but if someone demonstrated that it actually had a real world improvement in noise levels and noise quality, it would certainly peak my interest... It might actually make me excited about the 5D IV, which I figure will probably replace my 5D III if it's got the features I want and need.

I understand this thread is for the 5Ds. I'd like to see what the 5Ds is really capable of. Your +100 shadows is nothing we haven't been doing for years, and to loud it as something "special" like you were doing just demonstrates the sad state of Canon's technology. For someone to get excited over...that? :\ It's really sad. It's why I stopped waiting for Canon to do something on the sensor IQ front. I'm sure "someday" they will, but I can't wait around to be excited by "+100 shadows" anymore... ???

I do +100 shadow pushes with my 5D III all the time. My 5D III has 35e- read noise and a considerable amount of dark current noise, and as such should be nowhere near as good as the 5Ds. However if someone could also shift the exposure +3, maybe +4 stops, and it ended up being just random noise, without banding...now that would get my attention, and it might instill a little bit of my faith in Canon again. I'm a birder and wildlife guy, but I need a landscape camera...would be nice to see Canon deliver some improvements in the areas I need improvement.

As for the "right exposure", what, exactly, is that, Keith? Is it the kind of exposure you would make if you had a film camera? Or is it the exposure that would make full use of the dynamic range the sensor had to offer? Is it the exposure that would gather as much information, as much data, as possible while the shutter was open? Is it the exposure that would preserve the information the photographer is MOST interested in? The digital world is very different from the film world, and the "right" exposure is NOT one that looks "best" strait out of camera.

The right exposure in digital is the one that best preserves the information that is most critical. With Canon cameras, we often have to make tradeoffs. Your highlights on the goose, for example...very hot. I'm sure they can be mostly recovered, but it looks like some were fully burnt out. Those are risks you don't have to take if the camera has good shadow noise. You can ETTR less aggressively, protect ALL the highlights from burnout, and still recover enough detail from the shadows to produce a wonderful photo.

This is the full original image from whence my CROP came from, fully ETTRed (and then pushed another 1/3rd stop to ensure every scrap of DR the sensor offered was being used by both of the cameras I was testing):

After full recovery and processing, the above image, thanks to the low noise and good noise characteristics of the A7r, I ended up with this:

In comparison to my 5D III:

Now, I would honestly, truly like to know how much farther the 5Ds has come. The 5D III has terrible vertical banding. It's worse than the 6D, and it should be a lot worse than the 5Ds. I would really like to know how much closer to the left column of images the 5Ds has come, as it would give me an idea of what to expect with the 5D IV. I would prefer not to see that it is only capable of a +100 shadows lift. I'd really like to see it lifted three stops, and maybe an additional +30-60 shadows. It's not just about "DR" either...the 5Ds doesn't seem to have much more DR than it's predecessors, however if it has clean, random noise without any banding, that's a solid improvement. That would be interesting.

So, instead of being a jackass, maybe we could, I dunno...converse? Dialog? Discuss? I mean, this is a discussion form. More so than that, it is a rumors form. And, like it or not, there ARE people here who DO have a vested interest in Canon delivering better sensor IQ...for whatever their reasons are. Maybe we could see what the 5Ds is really capable of, with some real world examples? Show where it's improved? Put it through some hard core paces? Rather than try to tout a +100 shadows slider in Lightroom, something we have all been doing for years, as something exceptional? ???

Seriously. It's now wonder the rest of the internet sees this forum the way they do... This place is a laughing stock. I started posting at DPR, and received dozens of PMs from people welcoming me there, thanking me for coming by, and noting how much they purposely avoid this site. Do you guys realize that? This place is seen as the most uncompromising base of fanatical loyalty to a brand anywhere on the net, with a rather hostile atmosphere. People actively avoid this place...

Well, I guess I'll leave you with that. (Oh, and I am, really, truly interested in seeing what the 5Ds can do. I'm not excited by +100 shadows...I'd be interested in +3 exposure or so, and really excited by +4 exposure and +60 or more shadows...we'd be talking serious improvement then....)

 

[KeithBreazeal]

I don't care what your Sony or Nlkon does. This is a thread for the 5DS. If you go to the Sony site, I'm sure they would love your inputs.
PS: I try to take the correct exposure the first time. If it's way outside dynamic range, maybe an HDR would be better than trying to punish shadow pixels. In the real world, few people take photos 4 stops under and expect good results.

Wow...another impudent jackass on Canon Rumors forums. What a surprise... That's truly sad, how this forum collects uncompromizing... Well, not really a surprise I guess... Neither is the implication that I don't know how to expose...is that the only trick up a Canonites sleeve these days? :

I was trying to extend an olive branch. That I'm willing to admit Canon made some solid improvements with the 5Ds if it could actually be pushed more than a stop or two. I am really, actually interested in seeing what the 5Ds can do. Hence the reason I asked. At the moment, I have no plans nor interest in buying one, but if someone demonstrated that it actually had a real world improvement in noise levels and noise quality, it would certainly peak my interest... It might actually make me excited about the 5D IV, which I figure will probably replace my 5D III if it's got the features I want and need.

I understand this thread is for the 5Ds. I'd like to see what the 5Ds is really capable of. Your +100 shadows is nothing we haven't been doing for years, and to loud it as something "special" like you were doing just demonstrates the sad state of Canon's technology. For someone to get excited over...that? :\ It's really sad. It's why I stopped waiting for Canon to do something on the sensor IQ front. I'm sure "someday" they will, but I can't wait around to be excited by "+100 shadows" anymore... ???

I do +100 shadow pushes with my 5D III all the time. My 5D III has 35e- read noise and a considerable amount of dark current noise, and as such should be nowhere near as good as the 5Ds. However if someone could also shift the exposure +3, maybe +4 stops, and it ended up being just random noise, without banding...now that would get my attention, and it might instill a little bit of my faith in Canon again. I'm a birder and wildlife guy, but I need a landscape camera...would be nice to see Canon deliver some improvements in the areas I need improvement.

As for the "right exposure", what, exactly, is that, Keith? Is it the kind of exposure you would make if you had a film camera? Or is it the exposure that would make full use of the dynamic range the sensor had to offer? Is it the exposure that would gather as much information, as much data, as possible while the shutter was open? Is it the exposure that would preserve the information the photographer is MOST interested in? The digital world is very different from the film world, and the "right" exposure is NOT one that looks "best" strait out of camera.

The right exposure in digital is the one that best preserves the information that is most critical. With Canon cameras, we often have to make tradeoffs. Your highlights on the goose, for example...very hot. I'm sure they can be mostly recovered, but it looks like some were fully burnt out. Those are risks you don't have to take if the camera has good shadow noise. You can ETTR less aggressively, protect ALL the highlights from burnout, and still recover enough detail from the shadows to produce a wonderful photo.

This is the full original image from whence my CROP came from, fully ETTRed (and then pushed another 1/3rd stop to ensure every scrap of DR the sensor offered was being used by both of the cameras I was testing):

Now, I would honestly, truly like to know how much farther the 5Ds has come. The 5D III has terrible vertical banding. It's worse than the 6D, and it should be a lot worse than the 5Ds. I would really like to know how much closer to the left column of images the 5Ds has come, as it would give me an idea of what to expect with the 5D IV. I would prefer not to see that it is only capable of a +100 shadows lift. I'd really like to see it lifted three stops, and maybe an additional +30-60 shadows. It's not just about "DR" either...the 5Ds doesn't seem to have much more DR than it's predecessors, however if it has clean, random noise without any banding, that's a solid improvement. That would be interesting.

So, instead of being a jackass, maybe we could, I dunno...converse? Dialog? Discuss? I mean, this is a discussion form. More so than that, it is a rumors form. And, like it or not, there ARE people here who DO have a vested interest in Canon delivering better sensor IQ...for whatever their reasons are. Maybe we could see what the 5Ds is really capable of, with some real world examples? Show where it's improved? Put it through some hard core paces? Rather than try to tout a +100 shadows slider in Lightroom, something we have all been doing for years, as something exceptional? ???

Seriously. It's now wonder the rest of the internet sees this forum the way they do... This place is a laughing stock. I started posting at DPR, and received dozens of PMs from people welcoming me there, thanking me for coming by, and noting how much they purposely avoid this site. Do you guys realize that? This place is seen as the most uncompromising base of fanatical loyalty to a brand anywhere on the net, with a rather hostile atmosphere. People actively avoid this place...

Well, I guess I'll leave you with that. (Oh, and I am, really, truly interested in seeing what the 5Ds can do. I'm not excited by +100 shadows...I'd be interested in +3 exposure or so, and really excited by +4 exposure and +60 or more shadows...we'd be talking serious improvement then....)

I'll say this again. I don't really care if you take pictures 4 stops under. You got your 15 seconds of fame showing you can fix an improperly exposed photo. I don't take photos of my furniture in a dark room.
And this? "Seriously. It's now wonder the rest of the internet sees this forum the way they do... This place is a laughing stock. I started posting at DPR, and received dozens of PMs from people welcoming me there, thanking me for coming by, and noting how much they purposely avoid this site. Do you guys realize that? This place is seen as the most uncompromising base of fanatical loyalty to a brand anywhere on the net, with a rather hostile atmosphere. People actively avoid this place..." It's obvious you have some need for attention.
"So, instead of being a jackass, maybe we could, I dunno...converse? Dialog? Discuss? I mean, this is a discussion form." So, instead of being a jackass, maybe you could, I dunno...bother somebody else on a Sony or DPR forum that thinks you are the best thing that ever happened to them.

 

[jrista]

I'll say this again. I don't really care if you take pictures 4 stops under. You got your 15 seconds of fame showing you can fix an improperly exposed photo. I don't take photos of my furniture in a dark room.

A) It's not an improperly exposed photo...any brighter exposure, and a you start clipping huge amounts of information (i.e. the whole windows, then the entire back wall, by the time you had the chairs well exposed, half the picture would be overexposed...what would you call that? Proper exposure?) It's a digital signal...it isn't film. It's incredibly fluid and flexible compared to a film exposure. The notion of "proper exposure" is incredibly narrow on these forums...

B) It's a freakin test. : The point is to stress the cameras, see what they can do. Not create a beautiful photo.

And this? "Seriously. It's now wonder the rest of the internet sees this forum the way they do... This place is a laughing stock. I started posting at DPR, and received dozens of PMs from people welcoming me there, thanking me for coming by, and noting how much they purposely avoid this site. Do you guys realize that? This place is seen as the most uncompromising base of fanatical loyalty to a brand anywhere on the net, with a rather hostile atmosphere. People actively avoid this place..." It's obvious you have some need for attention.

I had no idea people would PM me. I was surprised that people seemed to know me. What also surprised me was that there seems to be a lot of people who lurk here, but refuse to post because of the atmosphere. An atmosphere people like you perpetrate. You are hostile. Openly, blatantly, to anyone who brings up anything other than your preferred brand...and you seem to enjoy that. Why would anyone come here to be berated by a guy like you? So, as I said...it's no wonder people avoid this site. It's also no wonder it seems to primarily attract the die hard "Canon or Die" kinds of fans the most.

"So, instead of being a jackass, maybe we could, I dunno...converse? Dialog? Discuss? I mean, this is a discussion form." So, instead of being a jackass, maybe you could, I dunno...bother somebody else on a Sony or DPR forum that thinks you are the best thing that ever happened to them.

Oh, I'm done bothering you. Just another CRudite on CR Forums. Imagine that... :

Goodby Keith



So, I open the question to anyone else who has a 5Ds. Anyone willing to stress that camera, see how far it can go, how well it's been improved against it's predecessors? I would still like to know how it fares against the 5D III, 1D X, 6D, etc. I keep hearing people say it has better dynamic range...I'd love to see how much better. Truly and honestly. I'll happily only compare it to other Canon cameras even, so as not to ruffle any more feathers.

Oh, some other interesting things to know would be dark current levels and practical read noise levels in actual use. I've got a cool script I can run in PixInsight that will spit out those numbers automatically. I'd need a handful of bias, dark, and flat frames if anyone is interested in providing them. If the 5Ds has low dark current like the 7D II, that would be very interesting for astrophotography...very interesting indeed.

 

[KeithBreazeal]

I'll say this again. I don't really care if you take pictures 4 stops under. You got your 15 seconds of fame showing you can fix an improperly exposed photo. I don't take photos of my furniture in a dark room.

A) It's not an improperly exposed photo...any brighter exposure, and a you start clipping huge amounts of information (i.e. the whole windows, then the entire back wall, by the time you had the chairs well exposed, half the picture would be overexposed...what would you call that? Proper exposure?) It's a digital signal...it isn't film. It's incredibly fluid and flexible compared to a film exposure. The notion of "proper exposure" is incredibly narrow on these forums...

B) It's a freakin test. : The point is to stress the cameras, see what they can do. Not create a beautiful photo.

And this? "Seriously. It's now wonder the rest of the internet sees this forum the way they do... This place is a laughing stock. I started posting at DPR, and received dozens of PMs from people welcoming me there, thanking me for coming by, and noting how much they purposely avoid this site. Do you guys realize that? This place is seen as the most uncompromising base of fanatical loyalty to a brand anywhere on the net, with a rather hostile atmosphere. People actively avoid this place..." It's obvious you have some need for attention.

I had no idea people would PM me. I was surprised that people seemed to know me. What also surprised me was that there seems to be a lot of people who lurk here, but refuse to post because of the atmosphere. An atmosphere people like you perpetrate. You are hostile. Openly, blatantly, to anyone who brings up anything other than your preferred brand...and you seem to enjoy that. Why would anyone come here to be berated by a guy like you? So, as I said...it's no wonder people avoid this site. It's also no wonder it seems to primarily attract the die hard "Canon or Die" kinds of fans the most.

"So, instead of being a jackass, maybe we could, I dunno...converse? Dialog? Discuss? I mean, this is a discussion form." So, instead of being a jackass, maybe you could, I dunno...bother somebody else on a Sony or DPR forum that thinks you are the best thing that ever happened to them.

Oh, I'm done bothering you. Just another CRudite on CR Forums. Imagine that... :

Goodby Keith (Oh, and I suspect that at one point you were Keith Reider? The attitude certainly seems to fit...)



So, I open the question to anyone else who has a 5Ds. Anyone willing to stress that camera, see how far it can go, how well it's been improved against it's predecessors? I would still like to know how it fares against the 5D III, 1D X, 6D, etc. I keep hearing people say it has better dynamic range...I'd love to see how much better. Truly and honestly. I'll happily only compare it to other Canon cameras even, so as not to ruffle any more feathers.

Oh, some other interesting things to know would be dark current levels and practical read noise levels in actual use. I've got a cool script I can run in PixInsight that will spit out those numbers automatically. I'd need a handful of bias, dark, and flat frames if anyone is interested in providing them. If the 5Ds has low dark current like the 7D II, that would be very interesting for astrophotography...very interesting indeed.

Who cares? The 5DS was not designed for you astro needs- it's for high resolution daylight/well lit subjects. Instead of provoking an individual, start a blog to flame and piss off Canon- that's your target. You are a great photographer and technically smart. Use that talent to your benefit. You wasting your time on us little people.

 

[jrista]

Who cares? The 5DS was not designed for you astro needs- it's for high resolution daylight/well lit subjects. Instead of provoking an individual, start a blog to flame and piss off Canon- that's your target. You are a great photographer and technically smart. Use that talent to your benefit. You wasting your time on us little people.

I have no interest in "flaming" or "pissing off" Canon. ??? Canon does as Canon does...on their own time table. Hence why I stopped bothering to wait, hope, or get excited about Canon rumors.

As for the performance of the 5Ds. A lot of people care, actually. There's been interest in the 5Ds, because despite what it is used for during the daytime, it has some ideal characteristics for wide field deep sky astrophotography. Namely, it's a gigantic sensor (by astro standards) with tiny pixels (sensitivity may be it's key limitation). That's very desirable for imaging at focal lengths of 800mm and less. The A7r II also has interest for the same reason.

The Sony cameras are a hot topic in astro right now, however there is one thing Canon REALLY has going for them: software support. The Sony SDK is coming along, but Canon's SDK is rich and mature. There is a lot of software out there that supports doing AP with Canon DSLRs (and for that matter, Nikon DSLRs). So a lot of people care. I know for a fact that there are some people here on these forums who would be interested in knowing how well the 5Ds does for astro, as I've received PM's from them on the topic of astrophotography, on these forums. These cameras aren't designed for one single purpose. Astrophotography is a rapidly growing field of photography in general. To claim that you actually know what the 5Ds was designed for, that you explicitly know the 5Ds was not designed for astro, is both naive and arrogant. The 5Ds was designed to be a high powered high resolution DSLR...and that's really the extent of what any of us could claim to know. Whether it is capable enough for astro is yet to be seen...hence my interest in figuring it out.

You, Keith? You can be as hostile as you want, but you just come off childish. As I already spend most of my time on other forums (happily, I might add), the lack of simple common courtesy on these forums from individuals such as yourself is astonishing. The way you guys persistently go instantly to hostile when someone brings up a topic you don't like...that would get you banned on a lot of forums. It surprises me how acceptable it is here. Hell, even the mods seem to go off here. ???

So Keith? You don't like it...don't read it. Other people besides you have interest in this camera for other reasons than you personally might, or what you personally deem, or demand, is appropriate.

 

[KeithBreazeal]

Who cares? The 5DS was not designed for you astro needs- it's for high resolution daylight/well lit subjects. Instead of provoking an individual, start a blog to flame and piss off Canon- that's your target. You are a great photographer and technically smart. Use that talent to your benefit. You wasting your time on us little people.

I have no interest in "flaming" or "pissing off" Canon. ??? Canon does as Canon does...on their own time table. Hence why I stopped bothering to wait, hope, or get excited about Canon rumors.

As for the performance of the 5Ds. A lot of people care, actually. There's been interest in the 5Ds, because despite what it is used for during the daytime, it has some ideal characteristics for wide field deep sky astrophotography. Namely, it's a gigantic sensor (by astro standards) with tiny pixels (sensitivity may be it's key limitation). That's very desirable for imaging at focal lengths of 800mm and less. The A7r II also has interest for the same reason.

The Sony cameras are a hot topic in astro right now, however there is one thing Canon REALLY has going for them: software support. The Sony SDK is coming along, but Canon's SDK is rich and mature. There is a lot of software out there that supports doing AP with Canon DSLRs (and for that matter, Nikon DSLRs). So a lot of people care. I know for a fact that there are some people here on these forums who would be interested in knowing how well the 5Ds does for astro, as I've received PM's from them on the topic of astrophotography, on these forums. These cameras aren't designed for one single purpose. Astrophotography is a rapidly growing field of photography in general. To claim that you actually know what the 5Ds was designed for, that you explicitly know the 5Ds was not designed for astro, is both naive and arrogant. The 5Ds was designed to be a high powered high resolution DSLR...and that's really the extent of what any of us could claim to know. Whether it is capable enough for astro is yet to be seen...hence my interest in figuring it out.

You, Keith? You can be as hostile as you want, but you just come off childish. As I already spend most of my time on other forums (happily, I might add), the lack of simple common courtesy on these forums from individuals such as yourself is astonishing. The way you guys persistently go instantly to hostile when someone brings up a topic you don't like...that would get you banned on a lot of forums. It surprises me how acceptable it is here. Hell, even the mods seem to go off here. ???

So Keith? You don't like it...don't read it. Other people besides you have interest in this camera for other reasons than you personally might, or what you personally deem, or demand, is appropriate.

Seriously? You need to look in the mirror. You're the one that started with the "childish dialog" when you responded to my original post "If the 5Ds has really been improved, it should at least be able to handle a +3 stop global exposure push without exhibiting banding. Anyone willing to give that a try?"
"The way you guys persistently go instantly to hostile when someone brings up a topic you don't like..." Then why do you do it?

 

[jrista]

Who cares? The 5DS was not designed for you astro needs- it's for high resolution daylight/well lit subjects. Instead of provoking an individual, start a blog to flame and piss off Canon- that's your target. You are a great photographer and technically smart. Use that talent to your benefit. You wasting your time on us little people.

I have no interest in "flaming" or "pissing off" Canon. ??? Canon does as Canon does...on their own time table. Hence why I stopped bothering to wait, hope, or get excited about Canon rumors.

As for the performance of the 5Ds. A lot of people care, actually. There's been interest in the 5Ds, because despite what it is used for during the daytime, it has some ideal characteristics for wide field deep sky astrophotography. Namely, it's a gigantic sensor (by astro standards) with tiny pixels (sensitivity may be it's key limitation). That's very desirable for imaging at focal lengths of 800mm and less. The A7r II also has interest for the same reason.

The Sony cameras are a hot topic in astro right now, however there is one thing Canon REALLY has going for them: software support. The Sony SDK is coming along, but Canon's SDK is rich and mature. There is a lot of software out there that supports doing AP with Canon DSLRs (and for that matter, Nikon DSLRs). So a lot of people care. I know for a fact that there are some people here on these forums who would be interested in knowing how well the 5Ds does for astro, as I've received PM's from them on the topic of astrophotography, on these forums. These cameras aren't designed for one single purpose. Astrophotography is a rapidly growing field of photography in general. To claim that you actually know what the 5Ds was designed for, that you explicitly know the 5Ds was not designed for astro, is both naive and arrogant. The 5Ds was designed to be a high powered high resolution DSLR...and that's really the extent of what any of us could claim to know. Whether it is capable enough for astro is yet to be seen...hence my interest in figuring it out.

You, Keith? You can be as hostile as you want, but you just come off childish. As I already spend most of my time on other forums (happily, I might add), the lack of simple common courtesy on these forums from individuals such as yourself is astonishing. The way you guys persistently go instantly to hostile when someone brings up a topic you don't like...that would get you banned on a lot of forums. It surprises me how acceptable it is here. Hell, even the mods seem to go off here. ???

So Keith? You don't like it...don't read it. Other people besides you have interest in this camera for other reasons than you personally might, or what you personally deem, or demand, is appropriate.

Seriously? You need to look in the mirror. You're the one that started with the "childish dialog" when you responded to my original post "If the 5Ds has really been improved, it should at least be able to handle a +3 stop global exposure push without exhibiting banding. Anyone willing to give that a try?"
"The way you guys persistently go instantly to hostile when someone brings up a topic you don't like..." Then why do you do it?

You severely misinterpreted my original post. Nothing in the text of mine that you quoted amounts to a personal attack, directly insulting or berating any individual person, etc. However, in your reply, you start right off hostile with the "I don't care yadda yadda", then insult my skill as a photographer with the quip about taking a better exposure. Do you see and understand the difference? I don't get it, I REALLY don't get, how people take simple factual statements about an inanimate piece of hardware as a direct personal insult...but that is all your deal man. I am NOT going to take responsibility for someone on a forum being touchy about people making comments about a piece of hardware that they don't like because...whatever. If you are insecure about your camera choices, that is all 100% on you. I don't care about that, I have absolutely ZERO interest in that, I have absolutely ZERO interest in bringing up hardware issues for the express purpose of making people feel bad about their brand choices. If you regularly run into people who DO think that way...well all I can say is I really feel sorry for you, because you know some damn crappy people.

I'm a factual guy. I deal with facts and concrete statements whenever I can. SIMPLE FACT? The 5Ds SHOULD be able to handle a three stop lift if it's been improved as much as many reviews have stated. My 5D III can do about a two stop lift, so a three stop lift should be within the realm of possibility for a 5Ds. Seeing as I AM interested in the camera for certain use cases, I thought it would be interesting to see someone push their 5Ds and see how far it could go.

Concurrently, being a factual guy who likes accuracy...I really didn't like the assertion that you were making, that a +100 shadows adjustment in Lightroom was something amazing. That is far from special. That's maybe a two stop adjustment of the shadows, which is not much different than a +2 stop exposure shift (with the exception that it preserves highlights better.) If the 5Ds has been improved as much as the reviews say (which seems to be about a stop according to some), a +100 shadows along with a +1 stop exposure, or a +25-+50 blacks, or something along those lines, should be possible.

Simple facts. I said nothing that should have been interpreted as an insult or as a hostile attack. I simply stated some facts, and requested information. You taking offense at what I said is 100% entirely on you, as you chose to misinterpret and take statements about an inanimate object personally. All on you. Anyway, I'm done.

If anyone is interested in seeing how the 5Ds compared to it's predecessors, and is willing to create some data, I can spit out some numbers (NON-DXO numbers, mind you...not sure if anyone would like that). A simple test of an exposure of a high dynamic range scene with some slider tweaks in LR should also be quite revealing. It would be very interesting if the 5Ds does have about a stop more shadow pushing ability than the 5D III or 1D X. I don't suspect it would be much better than the 6D, as it's already a little bit more capable than the 5D III.

 

[Eldar]

OK Jon, I´ll give you an example. I´d be happy to see your response. I´m on vacation up the northwest coast and shot this for an HDR series. It is deliberately 3 stop under exposed. I have attached the original image, one lifted 3 stops and one small crop. Below is also the dropbox link to the RAW-file. Feel free to download and play around with it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n32t5ic9o7yfadl/_23A1096.CR2?dl=0

 

[Eldar]

Here´s the 3 stop lift. Everything else is unchanged from default LR settings.

 

[Eldar]

And here´s the crop

 

[telemaq76]

almost as good as my old 1ds3 ! but far better than 1dx or 5d3