Are Two EOS M cameras coming in 2020? [CR1]

ctk

I'm New Here
Mar 25, 2020
21
25
Honestly, with the R6 video problems and 3rd party lens makers dragging their feet on RF glass, some IBIS equipped 32MP EF-M options sound a lot more appealing to me. EF-M lens selection still sucks, but there's just enough there that I could make it work in combo with my R or some other FF body. My main lens would be the Sigma 30 1.4; I could adapt an EF 85 for a nice little portrait/travel tele lens; and Laowa has that Zero-D 9mm for my travel architecture needs. Only real gap is a decent 24-xx equivalent standard zoom. An EF-M L zoom is a pipe dream but a 15-xx in the same vein of the 32 1.4 would be nice. I've always wanted Sigma to make something like a 15-45/2.8 to share across M43/E mount/EF-M/Fuji too. That would be great. No rush though, we will see what happens.
 
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ctk

I'm New Here
Mar 25, 2020
21
25
I'm not sure how important "coherence" is. For better or worse, look at Fuji. They typically have lenses in the same focal length or range from slow and cheap(er) to fast and expensive. The Fuji X-t4, X-t30 and X-T200 all have different price points and capabilities but use the same lens mount. The sales message that Canon is sending now is that if you want to do "everything" with your canon M5 or M6-2, you need to use EF lenses or buy into the R system. I don't think Canon would lose much if they enlarged their 60mm diameter limit to 72mm. That's about the diameter of the Sigma 16f/1.4.
Yea coherence is not an issue at all. Most M mount users aren't venturing beyond kit glass in the first place, hence the lack of M lens development/selection.

I don't think big L glass is a great idea for the M system, and people who want it can just adapt EF glass. But if they are looking to make some more premium bodies, there definitely needs to be at least a semi-premium standard zoom to bundle with it. Sony E, Fuji, M43 and even Samsung all have/had a premium standard zoom, so I think one for EF-M is justifiable. If it has to be variable aperture and plastic to keep the price down I think that would be OK. Something like a 15-60 F/2.8-4 or something.
 

jolyonralph

EOS R5 Mark II
CR Pro
Aug 25, 2015
1,351
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They going to make a 600 f4 M? I don't think so. The glass I use on my 7d mk II would not work on m. And, no, throwing in some adapter is not a solution! There are many, many problems introduced by an adapter. Poor weather resistance (ever used big glass in the surf, full of salty sand and water?), reduced function (even a marginal difference means missed shots in bird photography), and mount damage (this adds one more flex point and more leverage against a very small mount!) all pose huge problems. This is not remotely a 7d replacement! I would like a direct 7d replacement indeed, love a APS C or APS H pro body. No, crop mode in a fullframe is not the same. I want the camera to be optomized as a crop camera, not some sort of kludged afrerthought!
And have they made a 600 F4 RF either? No. You might have to wait another 5 years for that.

The EF-RF adaptor is pretty well weathersealed, and there is no reduction in autofocus function with the adaptor. They'd need a new EF-EF-M adaptor with weathersealing for a pro body, but I'd guess they'd include that in the box IF they decide to do a pro 7D replacement.
 
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nchoh

EOS RP
Apr 3, 2018
291
169
Calgary
I'm not sure how important "coherence" is. For better or worse, look at Fuji. They typically have lenses in the same focal length or range from slow and cheap(er) to fast and expensive. The Fuji X-t4, X-t30 and X-T200 all have different price points and capabilities but use the same lens mount. The sales message that Canon is sending now is that if you want to do "everything" with your canon M5 or M6-2, you need to use EF lenses or buy into the R system. I don't think Canon would lose much if they enlarged their 60mm diameter limit to 72mm. That's about the diameter of the Sigma 16f/1.4.
Well, if you compare what the M series competes against - I believe its the M43 system. The M43 system has lots of cameras and lots of lenses. Yet the M series sells well. I would say coherence works for the sales of M series to the market that they are after. Fuji cameras have their own appeal - tangible knobs for a more down to earth experience which neither Canon nor NIkon nor Sony matches.

But to answer the question; what will it take for Canon to break away from the 60mm rule? 1) the existing market for the M dries up [so reposition the M] 2) If Canon decides that R will never have an APS-C body [I don't think so, Canon will make an APS-C R so that they can sell smaller R glass... borrowed from the M]. 3) The M has been moved to the P&S team; this could be significant depending on how closely aligned the P&S team works with the DSLR/mirrorless team.
 

nchoh

EOS RP
Apr 3, 2018
291
169
Calgary
Yea coherence is not an issue at all. Most M mount users aren't venturing beyond kit glass in the first place, hence the lack of M lens development/selection.

I don't think big L glass is a great idea for the M system, and people who want it can just adapt EF glass. But if they are looking to make some more premium bodies, there definitely needs to be at least a semi-premium standard zoom to bundle with it. Sony E, Fuji, M43 and even Samsung all have/had a premium standard zoom, so I think one for EF-M is justifiable. If it has to be variable aperture and plastic to keep the price down I think that would be OK. Something like a 15-60 F/2.8-4 or something.
You miss the point, coherence is a marketing concept. Determine the market and then build products for that market.

The fact that majority of M buyers don't buy more lenses beyond the kit lens is even more reason for Canon to not develop more lenses let alone make lenses that moves away from the styling message that it current has. The fact that people like you and me use EF and EF-S lenses for our M cameras is a fact that is probably lost to Canon; how would they know? I use a 3rd party adapter with my EF and EFS lenses.
 

Cat_Interceptor

M6 II fanboy
Oct 20, 2019
79
126
alliancemotorsport.org
They going to make a 600 f4 M? I don't think so. The glass I use on my 7d mk II would not work on m. And, no, throwing in some adapter is not a solution! There are many, many problems introduced by an adapter. Poor weather resistance (ever used big glass in the surf, full of salty sand and water?), reduced function (even a marginal difference means missed shots in bird photography), and mount damage (this adds one more flex point and more leverage against a very small mount!) all pose huge problems. This is not remotely a 7d replacement! I would like a direct 7d replacement indeed, love a APS C or APS H pro body. No, crop mode in a fullframe is not the same. I want the camera to be optomized as a crop camera, not some sort of kludged afrerthought!
Every single word you typed is false.

I do motorsport which includes rallying - a branch that is well known for being horrific on cameras. The M6 II has had little issues in those kind of enviroments so far.

There is NO reduction in function. NONE. Full stop.

There is NO mount damage.

And yes, I have a 7D II. It''s been relegated to the backup to the M6 II. aka a M-Mount replaced the 7D II. I have said things I would like in a 7D III and frankly I havent given one second of a bother if it turns out it's a M mount camera. Becuase the M-Mount camera has already proven it's fine.
 

unfocused

EOS-1D X Mark III
Jul 20, 2010
5,708
2,696
67
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
...Just because Canon may introduce larger, more advanced APS-C bodies with more weather sealing into the RF system does not mean Canon must stop making the compact, lightweight, and more affordable EOS M bodies and EF-M lenses as some folks here seem to believe!
...Just because Canon may introduce larger, more advanced APS-C bodies with more weather sealing into the M system does not mean Canon must stop making the compact, lightweight, and more affordable EOS M bodies and EF-M lenses as some folks here seem to believe!
 
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Oct 3, 2018
3
4
A couple of years ago, I traveled with a 6D and a 7D, along with a bunch of EF glass (mostly L).
Since then, I've given the 7D to a friend to start their photography hobby and upgraded the 6D to an R.

Now, I'm contemplating the purchase of a 6D and (amongst others) the RF 100-500.
A crop camera like the M7 would definitely pull me over to fully invest in the RF line, as I like the option of the (perceived) extra reach along with its performance capabilities.

Oh, wait... Does that M7 take RF lenses? Guess not...

Let's wait until they really announce something. If there's not a 7D successor in the RF lineup, I might just as well do what I've been thinking of for quite a while but postponed all the time because I had hope Canon would bring out a camera in RF lineup that allowed me to travel with just one system instead of two...
 
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SteveC

R5
CR Pro
Sep 3, 2019
1,621
1,475
Actually, it is quite an important factor that Canon is banking on. Coherence is a very big principle in marketing. When buyers look at the M series they see a small lightweight system that is uniformly designed. That's important to selling to a very large market. Add in some very big lenses to the M line up and what do you get? M series is generally small but if I want to do everything, I might have to get some big lenses. Very different sales message.
A couple of weeks ago I suggested they might create a new series of bodies, clearly upscale and less compact, and call them something that's not M series, but which use the EF-M mount. Obviously lenses would be interchangeable between the M series and the not-M series, but the marketing could continue to make the distinction between compact/light/aimed at more casual users and the more serious crop frame not-M series. Anyhow, this not-M series could be aimed at the current 7D market. (Heck, I'd even include an adaptor in the box, since it's upscale. Maybe introduce a control ring?)
 

nchoh

EOS RP
Apr 3, 2018
291
169
Calgary
A couple of years ago, I traveled with a 6D and a 7D, along with a bunch of EF glass (mostly L).
Since then, I've given the 7D to a friend to start their photography hobby and upgraded the 6D to an R.

Now, I'm contemplating the purchase of a 6D and (amongst others) the RF 100-500.
A crop camera like the M7 would definitely pull me over to fully invest in the RF line, as I like the option of the (perceived) extra reach along with its performance capabilities.

Oh, wait... Does that M7 take RF lenses? Guess not...

Let's wait until they really announce something. If there's not a 7D successor in the RF lineup, I might just as well do what I've been thinking of for quite a while but postponed all the time because I had hope Canon would bring out a camera in RF lineup that allowed me to travel with just one system instead of two...
Sounds like you do some BIF photography, hence the RF100-500? If you do you should quickly get the R5 with that lens. The animal eye focus of the R5 by all reports is super amazing and with the 45MP of the camera, BIF photography will be ho-hum is a few short years.
 

Kane Clements

I'm New Here
Dec 6, 2019
19
21
They going to make a 600 f4 M? I don't think so. The glass I use on my 7d mk II would not work on m. And, no, throwing in some adapter is not a solution! There are many, many problems introduced by an adapter. Poor weather resistance (ever used big glass in the surf, full of salty sand and water?), reduced function (even a marginal difference means missed shots in bird photography), and mount damage (this adds one more flex point and more leverage against a very small mount!) all pose huge problems. This is not remotely a 7d replacement! I would like a direct 7d replacement indeed, love a APS C or APS H pro body. No, crop mode in a fullframe is not the same. I want the camera to be optomized as a crop camera, not some sort of kludged afrerthought!
Hi AprilForever.

I have an M50 and that works very well with my Canon EF100-400 II and the 1.4 extender. OK it is out of balance unless one holds the lens and balances with the body. Generally I do use it with smaller EF and EF-S glass though.

The adaptor (mine cost £25.00) doesn't add any problems for me. Could you list the ones you have experienced?

Wouldn't you just be better buying up a stock of S/H 7D Mk IIs and just beating them to death or drowning them one by one?
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
3,102
1,820
That doesn't make it a rule, does it? It's a chicken/egg thing here. All the lenses are small because there are no larger EF-M bodies. Adding a larger EF-M body would make it more sensible to have larger lenses.

There's no physical limit on the size of an EF-M lens, it's just marketing.
In marketing image is everything.

Perception is reality.

Canon is a company that makes its money based on how well they design and produce products that can be marketed to potential buyers. As crazy as it may sound to the folks here, you are not the typical buyers of interchangeable lens cameras. Even with the shift to smartphone cameras by most people, there are still more buyers of ILCs that want what the EOS M system offers: a single body and two or three lenses that are compact, lightweight, and affordable, than there are potential buyers who want a closet full of various camera bodies and a drawer full of lenses.

One reason the EOS M system sells as well as it does is because Canon has carefully crafted a brand for it that says: "Compact, Lightweight, and Affordable that fits your on-the-go lifestyle."

They're crazy if they screw that up when it is the best selling mirrorless ILC system on Earth.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
3,102
1,820
...Just because Canon may introduce larger, more advanced APS-C bodies with more weather sealing into the M system does not mean Canon must stop making the compact, lightweight, and more affordable EOS M bodies and EF-M lenses as some folks here seem to believe!
But it would mean they would muddy the waters of the branding that has made the EOS M system the best selling mirrorless ILC system on Earth.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

The kinds of cameras and lenses you want for the M system make much more sense in the RF mount and EOS R system. Both from branding/marketing perspective and from an engineering perspective.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
3,102
1,820
A couple of weeks ago I suggested they might create a new series of bodies, clearly upscale and less compact, and call them something that's not M series, but which use the EF-M mount. Obviously lenses would be interchangeable between the M series and the not-M series, but the marketing could continue to make the distinction between compact/light/aimed at more casual users and the more serious crop frame not-M series. Anyhow, this not-M series could be aimed at the current 7D market. (Heck, I'd even include an adaptor in the box, since it's upscale. Maybe introduce a control ring?)
Perhaps, but I still think it makes more sense to develop and market those "upscale" bodies and lenses with the RF mount.
 

Kane Clements

I'm New Here
Dec 6, 2019
19
21
I’ve had a thought. Don’t be shocked now it had to happen sooner or later.

If we look outside the Canon bubble for a moment, be strong people it won’t hurt I promise, which cameras would an M7 be competing against?

Answer is the XT-4 and the Sony A6600. Both have IBIS good face detect etc. And the XT-4 has twin card slots.

if you look the specs of those two, with some minor variations you have the M7.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
3,102
1,820
I’ve had a thought. Don’t be shocked now it had to happen sooner or later.

If we look outside the Canon bubble for a moment, be strong people it won’t hurt I promise, which cameras would an M7 be competing against?

Answer is the XT-4 and the Sony A6600. Both have IBIS good face detect etc. And the XT-4 has twin card slots.

if you look the specs of those two, with some minor variations you have the M7.
Nah, in terms of marketing and the buyers it is aimed at, the EOS M system competes against Micro Four-Thirds.

In case you haven't noticed, it's winning that war fairly handily.
 

Kane Clements

I'm New Here
Dec 6, 2019
19
21
Nah, in terms of marketing and the buyers it is aimed at, the EOS M system competes against Micro Four-Thirds.

In case you haven't noticed, it's winning that war fairly handily.
Hi Michael, interesting point.

And with an M7 they will be going up against the 'cream of the crop frame cameras' from Sony and Fuji. In terms of size / performance and functionality an M7 would sit comfortably in a line up with those.
 
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ashmadux

Art Director, Visual Artist, Freelance Photography
Jul 28, 2011
456
37
New Yawk
photography.ashworld.com
Why not put it in a Smallrig cage? It adds a nice amount of grip/size and weight IMO without overdoing it.
Yup great thinking and that was the plan, however now that has shifted to the next body ill replace it with. Smallcage rocks. (y)

I dont have much confidence in the m50, too many blurry images, so I no longer use it. Its the longest testing period for a camera ive ever had to to do (almost a year), but its never been reliable so off it goes.